Maybe it was too good to be true after all...

[Hans]

I know, Willy, and that's what girls have been telling me before. That was the explanation I got from the lady who fooled me last time. I just don't think it is an excuse for bad behavior. It's like cheating on your wife with the excuse that so many women out there cheat on their husbands anyway. Bad comparison maybe, but you get my point.

[JimB]

Hans, I think you are over reacting.  Take it from someone who does too.  She probably has no real idea of the trouble you went to and she is not going to hurt her friends feelings for a man that she has never met.  At least she asked you to come to the wedding.  She didnt say she was going and would meet you after, so I think that is giving you consideration.  Once you have made a commitment to each other things will change.  As far as asking you and telling you, this was through an EMF, right?  The translator may have put it that way.   This is one reason the 24 hour rule is so important.  If you must talk about it, I would do it giving her the benefit of doubt.  Explain to her your reasons in a calm non accusatory way.  This may be just a difference in interpretation.  She has not given you any details, she probably didnt think about it.  If you want this relationship to work, I would explain my reasons and tell her thank you for inviting me but i cannot go.  She should go and have a good time.  Then see what she says.  If you do this, you will come off looking like a really good guy. To everyone.    Look at it this way, what if your lifelong friend wanted you to be the best man at his wedding, would you say no to him?  You would invite her.  This is a big thing to them, to women all over. You have no idea of the background to this.  Please, step back and take a good long look at this before saying a word.

[Irishman]

Hans, I was about to post something like Jim just did, i am the master of over-reaction but in this case i don't think its warranted.
It IS an honour to be invited to her friends wedding with her, she is showing you off to her closest friends and has a lot of face to loose if you make a poor impression.

Has she flown before?, does she realise how hard it is to change flights? hotel rooms can always be changed in my experience up to about 48 at least and she probably knows this so probably thinks she is giving you great face by inviting you to such an important occasion for her.
Willy touched on this earlier, always have a plan b..no matter how much you have planned something in China..there is inevitably a plan c that needs to be accounted for, you either accept that or go crazy is my opinion. I remember one time I was going with Ling to visit a friends wedding and she had told me it was a day trip only and she would meet me at the bus station the next morning to go there.
She was there..with a suitcase and was a bit miffed that I didnt want to stay overnight as I had no clothes or toiletries to freshen up in..though she had brou8ght some for her..maybe that was her though...

In a nutshell, rethink it, explain it to her softly about the flight costs etc if you cannot really afford the changes then be honest about that. She will respect it more than acting the big rich guy and sulking all the time when you make the flight changes... Unless she's from a really rich background she will appreciate the value of money and not think any less of you for it (in fact i bet she would see it as a positive that you are not foolish with money) .

[Sylvain D]

"But still, I am doing the trip, I am paying and I am making the effort to see her. "

Well. As many of us (or as ALL OF US, of course we go to China, but.... shall man say "making the effort"?
I don't think you are making an effort, because if you to there, it is because you want to go there, anyway, and it is a part of your heart, too, that gives the reason to go.
So... forget about that way to say "making the effort" and about payment, please
Be sure too, that I don't want to offend you

In any other hand, I don't think she is "playing" with you. I just read the way it was said that she wanted to be at the wedding with you, but for sure, maybe time will be too short...
As other brothers said, maybe you can ask her to confirm if it is really what she said (via any private mail/sms if you can?), then you can see what you can do (or not).

But I already think that she would be very happy to see you, even if is she is asked to be one of the most important persons for her friend's wedding.
and if for any reason you can not arrive in time at the wedding, maybe you can arrive a bit later... but I doubt your lady would be angry about it... (if you explain how long is your flight and so on )

Well. I wish you all the best anyway and hope to read your fresh news asap

[Hans]

First of all, I really appreciate everyone’s responses here. It really means a lot to get some sober input. When you’re upset and emotional you don’t always think straight. However, although I may be overreacting a bit I do think I have some reason to feel the way I do.

Sylvain, about "making the effort": Of course I want to go there and see her, otherwise I would never have made any travel arrangements in the first place. I am just implying that I am the one with the most to lose here. I leave my country to visit her, I am making the trip to her, not the other way around. If she had booked a flight to Sweden, empited her pockets for the trip and arranged with a hotel and I suddenly tell her that I need to go to another place 600 km away on the day of her arrival because my friend is getting married or whatever, I am pretty sure she would feel a bit disappointed as well.

No, I don’t think she is playing with me either. But she relies very heavily on the agency all the time. When I ask her practical questions, she tells me to ask Ms Wang, head of the agency (who doesn’t speak English very well, apparently). When I ask about her future visa to Sweden (which she has brought up herself many times), she tells me to ask Ms Wang again. I don’t want to talk to Ms Wang, I want to talk to her.

She (or probably the agency) told me about the translation services earlier and although I thought it was a bit expensive (100RMB/hour) I agreed that it could be wise to use a human translator during our first day. Now she writes that Ms Wang and the translator would accompany us to the wedding and I don’t know if that means I am expected to pay for their entire stay (and how long that stay would be). Like I said, no details.

I have told her about my economy before. I am not a rich man, especially not this fall because I've been a trainee full time (without pay) for 15 weeks, which is a part of my education. And during the evenings I have been studying Chinese at the uni. So all my money has been coming from the student support we get in Sweden (which is a loan combined with a tiny monthly support). I’ve completely emptied my pockets for this trip, which is also what I refer to when I say "making the effort".

Well, I'll write to her in the morning...

[Sylvain D]

Well, I think you should discuss more about all of your "fears" with her, and saying her you want to talk only with her, not only with Ms Wang.There's a "way" to say it, without any hurts, so I hope your lady could understand it easily. And maybe would then she try to speak more and more with you, without saying "talk to Ms Wang, ask to Ms Wang"...
Plus, if Ms Wang and the translator should be at the wedding, too, yes, I'd like to know if you would have to pay something or not. Once again, say your lady that it's not because you are a foreigner that it means you have many $$$
By the way, it should be nice to know, too, if you ever tried before to talk in chinese with anybody, or if it would be your first time? (so then, woud you really need any translator?) Plus, if you have andy pocket pc, man can tell you some nice softwares to use and "practice"

[Danny]

Danny, I am not the pretending type. I won't pretend nothing's wrong in a relationship when something is wrong. I want to discuss things in the open and the lady has been saying the same. If that scares some people off, and it does, so be it. I will not play games to make her believe I am OK with whatever she decides. Because I feel she has decided. She has told me, not asked me. To me that shows disrespect. I am aware of the cultural differences here and that she probably doesn't mean to show me disrespect. But still, I am doing the trip, I am paying and I am making the effort to see her.

Yes, I agree. I am sorry I did not make myself sufficiently clear. I only meant to say to you what I would tell myself. Sometimes when I have my hopes up, and they are disappointed, there is a temptation (for me) to throw a tantrum. It is easy to overreact to what might be only a small setback. Please believe me, I am not suggesting that you would act in this way. It is the way I have (to my shame and regret) acted. So, as I say to my daughter, do as I say, and not as I do *laughs*

[JimB]

Hans on your first post, you left parts of that out.  Like the translator.  Usually the man pays for that sort of thing, yes I would definitely explain my financial picture to her.  I think 100 RMB per hour is excessive also.  They all think we are rich Americans, Canadians, etc.  I would not want to pay for the translator, to go there, stay, eat and come back.  That is way out of line.  But make sure first that is what is expected.  Get all of the info first before going off the deep end.If she expects you to pay for the translator, etc.  That may be taking advantage of you.  Unless you have portrayed yourself as this rich person.  Which you say you havent. This puts a whole different light on it in my opinion.  But still be careful until you have all of the facts.   If she does expect you to pay, I would ask her why she thinks this. She may be getting bad advice from the agency also, to pad their expenses.  They may be telling her that all foreigners do this.  In the end, I would be very careful, but tell her that you will not pay for that expense.  And do not appreciate being taken for granted in that way.  Like i said before, make  sure you have all of the facts before saying anything, then wait 24 hours to digest it all.  And do have your Plan B ready, just in case.  That way you will have a good time no matter what happens.  Worst case is you will meet some new ladies that you know are real and have a pretty guide to your travels.  How can that be bad?

[jeffm]

Hans,

You do all your communication, via agency? You are six months into emotions and so on, perhaps you need to hit her up for direct communication. This is by no-means unreasonable request! If need be go directly to Mrs. Wang or whatever and let them know, your communication, needs to take a GIANT leap forward!!! Like you say...you are not rich and this trip has been planned, supposedly by both of you(at least with you).

Like some of the others have suggested, take a step back and calm down first! Your mind is racing with negativity and this will kill everytthing! Be casual and find answers first...casually!!! Same time, don't waste time! You have less than a month and you will be on Chinese soil. Just in case things don't go as anticipated have back up thoughts( hard to do, when your six months and emotionally involved...BUTT do it!!!

Your best bet is direct communication now!!! You posted this thread cuz your pissed off...well use that energy in a way that will work for you! Plus, don't expect ANYTHING when you arrive there...I know you have read many of the other threads of FAILED FIRST TRIPS...DON'T ADD YOURSELF TO THIS LIST! :dodgy:  I wish you the best of luck bro!


Jim

the only problem with this is that he doesn't exactly have a lot of leverage now.  If he didn't plan the trip yet then I'd say it's time to define the relationship (haha famous phrase of american women when they want you to buy the cow).  I don't like the manager and translator going.  You know they are going to hit him up for fees.  I would tell Wang thanks but no thanks if she says that you will be charged.  Obviously you are going to ask her this.  This last minute two extra people stuff I don't like, and it is a typical chinese business move to fleece some more money from you.

[David5o]

Han's

contrary to what others have said here, a traditional Chinese wedding is planned months in advance, hell sometimes the wedding photo's are conducted weeks in advance of the actual ceremony. So there is no-way she would not have known about her best friends wedding date, especially as she is going to be the ''maid of honour''

I'm not saying that all is her fault, as we all know what a lot of these agencies are like and it certainly sounds as if she's being manipulated by her agency....

Personally i see this very much along the same lines as yourself. i would tell her that as a student, there is no-way financially you can change your travel plans at this late stage, and ask her what she wants to do, ...putting the ball firmly back in her court. Based on what she comes back with, basically decides what you are going to do about your trip to China!!

If the worst comes to the worst, believe me, there are plenty more decent Chinese ladies that would love to be in your ladies shoes, and be more than happy to take over your affections..... You can always Ask Willy for some tips ...lol!!!

David....

[Hans]

The past few days have not been the best of my life, is one way to put it. At times such as these, this board is a life saver, really. Thank you all for your comments and support!

I'm afraid this will be a long one...

First of all (to abigbutt): It is partly my fault we have not been able to do a webcam meeting. I asked early on for a face to face webcam meeting and she said she was too shy to do it alone, she wanted a translator with her. Since she’s working in Foshan and the agency is located in her home town Zhanjiang, she would have to do a 400 km trip just for the webcam meeting. That made it anything but spontaneous. However, I have had trouble getting a webcam to work with my computer (I use a Mac). MSN on Mac does not support webcam at all and iChat doesn’t seem to work with other software. Simply put, it has been hard to make it happen and this fall has been one of the busiest of my entire life. So we’ve done EMF’s and Chinese emails. I have made repeated requests for her QQ number (and her phone number), I have given her mine and my MSN nick but she has always ignored these requests. I first thought that it was the translator who simply didn’t translate it to her but she has also ignored my requests when written in emails in Chinese. I don’t know why, but I am beginning to wonder (more on that topic further down).

JimB, I know I left some things out. I was upset and all I saw when I first read her letter was that she was going to a wedding on the day of my arrival. When I reread it, I saw the details too. That is why.  

So, back on topic again then:

I sent a letter to my lady about the wedding thing on Tuesday night. I rewrote it several times and in the end, it was not an accusatory letter. I merely told her I was very surprised with the situation because we had already agreed on the plans and that I would not be able to accompany her to the wedding. I got a quick and short reply. She wrote that the wedding was ”put off” and that I did not have to worry anymore. She would write me a longer letter ”tonight”. That was on Wednesday.

I had promised her to send something special to her email on her birthday, December 3, but said I would wait until we had cleared the confusion that had arised (no pressure there!). So after the short reply from her, I felt I should send her the little surprise I had, which was a short recording of me speaking Chinese to her and wishing her happy birthday etc. I also attached a "Zhu Ni Shengri Kuaile" picture. (I had told her before that I would bring the real birthday gift myself when I go to China).

That was on Thursday morning Swedish time, (late afternoon Chinese time). Within 50 minutes from the moment I sent her the email, I receive her EMF, which she apparently wrote last night since it was dated December 2. She explained the situation, said she was sorry that she had caused the confusion and expressed her longing for our first meeting etc. Well, it is easier to just paste  her explanation:

"These days I keep calling my friend to get the first hand information, hoping she will eventually put off the wedding ceremony, and my hope comes true! She told me she can't get the wedding photo album before the original date of wedding ceremony as planned, so she have to put of the ceremony. That means our plan to meet in Zhanjiang remains the same! The heavy stone in my heart is finally gone while I got this news."

I found it a bit weird but accepted the explanation, what else can I do. One thing bothers me, though. At the end of the letter, after the dating (December 2) she wrote a PS:

"I have got your beautiful birthday card and song from my email! I am so happy!!! Thank you so much, my love. I love you!!!!"

First of all, how could she possibly know about this in a letter written the day before? Did she immediately call/email the agency asking them to add that PS or (more likely) did the translator do it? If my lady wrote it, why didn’t she just send me a short reply on my email?
Second, I did not send her a song (it was an mp3-file, but it was certainly not a song!). Or was it just a mistranslation? What do you read out of this? Is her email controlled by the agency too? The email is an 126.com account, if that tells you anything.

To be honest, all I have to support that she’s real are the photos of her and her family. I would prefer the naked truth here if someone believe they’ve got it...:s

[David5o]

Han's

The Agency controlled emails are mostly Yahoo and 126.com accounts, so more than possible that this is a controlled email account. Test it by sending an email through that account and see what happens. If you get a reply in English, never pay for another EMF again, because that email address is your ladies agency controlled email address....

Oh, it's common for poems and the like to be labelled as ''SONGS'' in China ...weired but true!! haha!!

David

[Hans]

David, what do you mean "send an email through that account"? Should I get a 126.com account myself and email her or just email my new fake account from my own email address...?

[David5o]

Han's,

You said that her email account is a 126.com account Right?? If that is so, send her an email, as you would in an EMF to that email address and see if it is answered in English. Send it from your own regular email address, if it comes back with a translated reply from your lady, you will know it's an agency controlled email address. No need for any fake addresses Han's, just send the test/sample email as you would normally from your normal email address.... What i'm saying is, that if a translated reply comes back to you from your lady, there is no-need to ever purchase EMF'S again from chnlove, as you have your ladies agency account email address....

David.....

[Hans]

But we have been sending emails to each other for months and she (or whoever it is) has always been replying in Chinese. That has been the point with our email communcation, to make me practice my Chinese "skills". So you mean that I should just write in English and see if I still get a reply from her in Chinese? Do you really think they would expose themselves that easily after they/she have been writing that her English is very bad (she has been writing simple sentences like "I miss you" in English, otherwise we have only been communcating in Chinese in our emails).