Author Topic: Religion Thread  (Read 84769 times)

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Offline shaun

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Re: Religion Thread
« Reply #360 on: January 15, 2012, 09:06:16 am »
Willy, when you said Benny Hinn you didn't have to say more.   I have a friend who had a son with a rare lung disease.  He took his son from Texas to Florida to have Benny lay hands on his son for healing.  Benny declare him healed and within a few weeks the young man died from the same disease.  The family was devastated.   I do believe God can and does heal people.  I've seen it happen but I don't believe Benny Hinn can.  I don't believe the miraculous ever follows the spectacular.

Offline Martin

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Re: Religion Thread
« Reply #361 on: January 15, 2012, 09:25:38 am »
Benny Hinn does far more damage than anyone that I can think of.  He can hardly be called an ambassador of the Christian church.  But unfortunately, many people get sucked in to the one who stands on his soap box, shouting the loudest.

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Re: Religion Thread
« Reply #362 on: January 15, 2012, 11:46:04 am »
There seems to be something missing in the YEAR facts. Yes they could have counted days and nights? but they did not total to 365 days as a year or as we know it today. 30 days & nights could have been 1 year to them? or did they have a mini sundial on their wrist? Enlighten me.




Evolution? I'm not understanding when I hear or read that it's not proven? or science has not proven evolution? and funny enough I have only heard this from christian leaders? But science has proven by way of remains found in africa, europe and asia. So is it the word evolution getting a spin on it? as in adam and eve weren't evolved? but the other humans at that time were? In another post somewhere about adam & eve it was said that there was others that married their sons? So what's the straight story?




Now for proof of evolution....
« Last Edit: January 15, 2012, 01:01:34 pm by Vince G »

Offline Scottish_Robbie

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Re: Religion Thread
« Reply #363 on: January 15, 2012, 12:50:33 pm »

As Scottish Robbie is aware I am against all Charlatans who prey on peoples beliefs whatever their calling.



I'll vow on that, Willy is often (nearly twice three times a week, going on about it!!! :o :o :o
"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts" Winston Churchill

Offline Robertt S

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Re: Religion Thread
« Reply #364 on: January 15, 2012, 01:17:22 pm »
Interesting and True! ::)

“The president of the United States has claimed, on more than one occasion, to be in dialogue with God. If he said that he was talking to God through his hairdryer, this would precipitate a national emergency. I fail to see how the addition of a hairdryer makes the claim more ridiculous or offensive.”
― Sam Harris, Letter to a Christian Nation

Offline shaun

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Re: Religion Thread
« Reply #365 on: January 15, 2012, 01:26:57 pm »
I wrote a paper on this several years ago.  Got an excellent grade on it.  It's packed away but I think I can pull some of the supporting documents off of the internet.  This may take a while so I am not avoiding your question.

Offline David E

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Re: Religion Thread
« Reply #366 on: January 15, 2012, 06:01:12 pm »
I've been fortunate enough to stand atop Masada, Qumran, Ein Gedi, and in the Dead Sea twice in my life (belch to the Dead Sea).  I've have had the pleasure to be a part of some of the archaeological digs in Israel as a geophysicist.  The amazing thing to me about the ramp at Masada is that it was never completed which is one of  the evidences used for the suicide theory.

"Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it is lawful to call him a man; for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure.  He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ.  And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men among us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him.  And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day."

The 1000 year old thing always twists people up a little.  When you look at this idea and you believe evolution to be true then it is impossible to believe but the key factor is in believing in evolution.  Now I know that I have placed myself with many of the spiritual wackos that are out there but, I have not seen one shred of actual evidence that evolution is a true science.  From a scientific standpoint then it is not true.  Science is based off of fact and evidence, you said it yourself.  There has not been one fossil found that shows the evolutionary process of a species.

We do find however that there is a harmony of biblical history and scientific fact.  At one time the earth was completely covered with water.  The reason I mention the Christian flood theory is because it is a key factor in understanding the length of human life.

Humor me a little.  Man was created by God in a perfect environment for health, wealth and longevity.  (Even science will tell you that the human body was designed or created for a much longer lifespan.)  Mankind was banished from the garden and lived in a less than perfect environment. Some 2000 years later when Noah was born  mankind had become so corrupt that Noah was the only one left that was righteous man.  So God wiped out the the world saving Noah and his family.  After the flood human life became shorter and shorter until we come to Moses who lived 120 years and almost 90% reduction in human life.
.

OK..here we go for round 12 !!!

I dispute that the ramp at Massada was never completed. Wooden support structures were found right up to the top and carbon dated to coincide with the rest of the ramp. The ramp did not need to actually get to the Citadel...only close enought to use missiles to batter down the walls, at which point the Romans could get in and butcher the inhabitants (if they had not suicided first ??)...the Romans were a bit touchy about people who disagreed with them !!!!

Whatever Josephus wrote, you cannot be certain that it was not the embellishment of the facts to suit the arguement....BTW, neither can I prove that it was not...so we have a Mexican stand-off.

There have been squillions of fossils found that clearly demonstrate the gradual change both within a genera and within a species...the remarkable work Darwin did on the Galapagos with the seed eating finches is one example...the slow change from Homo Erectus, through Ramapithecus, Homo Habilis to Modern Man is another, fully supported by the fossil record....to name but 2...I could go on for 20 pages, but I wont

At one time the Earth had much more free water...agreed, but this was in the Pleistocene period before Glaciation and before Gondwanaland (the only land mass at the time ) began to break up into Continents (Tectonic Plate Drift). There is no evidence for recent time (300, 000 years) that there was a period of NO land. The nett content of water has not changed since the World began...neither can it, because of the Laws of Conservation of Mass and Energy...if there is more water, its got to come from somewhere !!! What has changed and will constantly continue to change is the ratio of water to ice/snow (phase shift)

The human body, regretfully can only exist because it is fuelled by Oxygen which is a vicious Oxidising Agent. Therefore the fuel we ingest carries the seed of our own destruction. As an Oxydative machine, it is thought that the human body has an ultimate life span of about 130 years...(Gene Tasselation).

That is why the dinosaurs were so big, in the Jurasic and Cretaceous, the Oxygen content of the atmosphere was over 40 %...more fuel, more growth, more size....but there is no evidence that they lived for extended years...just did it all quicker due to high fuel content.

I cant humour you Shaun because you say "Humor me a little.  Man was created by God in a perfect environment for health, wealth and longevity."...and this fundamental proposition of yours is totally rejected by me....so all "logic" that follows from this fatally flawed statement can never make any sense to me. I cannot even think how to begin a rational debate which incorporates the arguement " So God wiped out  the world saving Noah and his family."...because I absolutely, utterly and totally reject the premise.

S' all interesting...but as always, neither view will prevail...you will never convince me...and I know I will never convince you...or those of your following.

Next episode, we might explore the whole question of time/age/age-time...thanks to Brian Greene...or maybe not...I am getting a bit bored with trying to convert you Heathens to the real religion of the Universe !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Last Edit: January 15, 2012, 06:31:51 pm by David E »

Offline David E

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Re: Religion Thread
« Reply #367 on: January 15, 2012, 09:06:55 pm »
I was in church today and thinking about what Vince said in his post about "ye are the light of this world" and here is the reading we had today:

2 Corinthians 4

The Light of Christ’s Gospel

 1 Therefore, since we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we do not lose heart. 2 But we have renounced the hidden things of shame, not walking in craftiness nor handling the word of God deceitfully, but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God. 3 But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them. 5 For we do not preach ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord, and ourselves your bondservants for Jesus’ sake. 6 For it is the God who commanded light to shine out of darkness, who has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. 7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellence of the power may be of God and not of us.

so ...

If we have God in our hearts, then we have the light of God in us ... that is how we are the light of the world .. as God works in us and through us.

Mike

Mike...I am sorry but I just dont know what these words mean...I dont understand the English, the context or the Grammar.

Would it not be useful to stop speaking in "Biblease" and try to get your point across in plain, legible, understandable English......

Or does quoting in Biblease add some weight, mystery and authority to your points...whatever they were !!!...as if only you "believers " have the privilege of understanding them...us Heathens can only look on in wonder at such profound words of gibberish.

Offline funkymusician

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Re: Religion Thread
« Reply #368 on: January 15, 2012, 09:51:33 pm »
Thank you mpo4747 for referring to the comment I made which Vince tried to disagree with.    It is my mistake. I thought most people knew that verse from the Sermon on the Mount. "Ye are the light of the world" (Matt 5:14)

"Let your light so shine that they may see your good works and glorify your Father which is in heaven"(Matt 5:16).

This is the link to Thomas Welch's story. He is the only man I know of who has also seen the lake of fire.
http://www.bibleprobe.com/thomaswelch.htm

These are people who went to hell, which is different from the Lake of fire.
http://bibleprobe.com/hell2.htm

Vince, I know there are many, many versions of Bibles out there ( a trick of the enemy, he can't take the Bible away now, so he is diluting the true Word with all kinds of translations) So if you need a Bible, choose the King James Version. It may not be the first to have been written, but I believe it is the best.

Vince G

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Re: Religion Thread
« Reply #369 on: January 15, 2012, 10:31:52 pm »
Yeah right? So funky Frank, are you in search of a chinese woman? or are you here to heal us all?

Offline Martin

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Re: Religion Thread
« Reply #370 on: January 15, 2012, 10:57:59 pm »
Guys, while I want debate and discussion on religion, I want to make sure that nobody feels they are being attacked for their views...and that means, their views in whatever direction they may be.  This thread was created as a safe place to have open and frank discussion on religion.  Debate is healthy...I just don't want to see it get personal...it looks like it is heading there in a few of the posts.  Just want to remind everyone to keep it above the waist, and keep it clean.  All opinions are welcome on this thread.

Offline funkymusician

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Re: Religion Thread
« Reply #371 on: January 15, 2012, 11:44:08 pm »
I believe I have found her, thank you very much!

  I just have to go visit. Incidentally, I found her thru prayer, too. God chose her for me thru the Word. They were four. Fei, Angel, Lily and one whose name I've forgotten. After praying for which to choose, later that day, I happened to be reading my Bible. Came across this verse in Hosea 14:5, " I will be as the dew unto Israel,( God calls all His children Israel, meaning "Prince of God", that's what we are, see. ) he shall grow as the lily".  Immediately, He quickened me in the Spirit to let me know that Lily is the answer to my prayer, and that I will grow old with her. Can you believe that?.
 ;D
      That is why it is  vital to be born again, so He can direct you by His Spirit. Isaiah 30:21 says" And thine ears shall hear a word behind thee saying, This is the way, walk ye in it". He still direct those who trust Him. He lets me know if for whatsoever reason I don't like her, that is fine too. The Lord never forces His children into unfruitful relationships.

 "O TASTE and  see that the Lord is good. Blessed is the man that trusteth in Him(Psalm 34:8  )

"Delight thyself also in the Lord, and He shall give thee the DESIRES of thine heart (Psalm37:4)

  I've just finished listening to the Sunday sermon by the funny late Dr. J. Vernon McGee, (ttb.org) formerly of Texas, and he just mentioned the Bible is the most fun book there is. I couldn't agree more! Too bad a lot of Christians look so mournful and apprehensive all the time( I ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D confess I do sometimes myself when my faith is low, and I forget the promises of God) but most times I'm joyful and high as a kite, and I don't need drugs to do it! Free gift of the Holy Ghost!
« Last Edit: January 15, 2012, 11:51:39 pm by funkymusician »

Offline Willy The Londoner

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Re: Religion Thread
« Reply #372 on: January 16, 2012, 12:08:40 am »
Now if anyone wants a good read then I have read a certain book a few times. Probably one of the few that I have ever read from cover to cover!

Masses of killing, Murder, rape, treachery and a bit of sodomy thrown in for good measure.

You guessed right as to what book it is.

Willy

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Now in my 12th year living here,

Offline David E

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Re: Religion Thread
« Reply #373 on: January 16, 2012, 12:16:37 am »
OK ...point taken Martin.

I am starting to lose my cool...so I am outta here for another 12 months  ;D ;D ;D

Maybe venture back when I calm down !!

Offline Willy The Londoner

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Re: Religion Thread
« Reply #374 on: January 16, 2012, 12:19:29 am »
I believe I have found her, thank you very much!

  I just have to go visit. Incidentally, I found her thru prayer, too. God chose her for me thru the Word. They were four. Fei, Angel, Lily and one whose name I've forgotten. After praying for which to choose, later that day, I happened to be reading my Bible. Came across this verse in Hosea 14:5, " I will be as the dew unto Israel,( God calls all His children Israel, meaning "Prince of God", that's what we are, see. ) he shall grow as the lily".  Immediately, He quickened me in the Spirit to let me know that Lily is the answer to my prayer, and that I will grow old with her. Can you believe that?.
 ;D
      That is why it is  vital to be born again, so He can direct you by His Spirit. Isaiah 30:21 says" And thine ears shall hear a word behind thee saying, This is the way, walk ye in it". He still direct those who trust Him. He lets me know if for whatsoever reason I don't like her, that is fine too. The Lord never forces His children into unfruitful relationships.


 Funkymusic lets hope it works OK.  I take it she is a Christian herself. 

Unless you can speak fluent Chinese, either Cantonese or Mandarin you will have difficulty in following the Government controlled church services here.

I have a Bible with both English and Chinese translation so after more than two years attending a church here I can follow roughly what is being said.

Singing-  I follow in English as I have a dual language Hymn book as well for thoise I do not know. For Praise and Worship I know most of the songs as I have a business selling Gospel and modern Christian tracks.

Willy
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