All About China > Share your love story
Our Story
Smaug:
Wow, everything is so complicated there!
Ivy told me that if they can find a serious buyer within the next couple weeks, then she can have everything done by the end of April. After reading these past few posts, I'm skeptical!
Ivy's situation is a little complicated because her first condo was under her ex's name. She had him sign something that said she had control over it when they divorced. But now, she had to jump through some hoops to get everything squared away. Rather than just have the title changed over to her name, she is trying to sell the house in his name, get the money into a new account that SHE opened under HIS name (by borrowing his national ID card) then immediately transfer the money to her account. She said this is quicker and easier than transferring the title to her name, and it also avoids a lot of taxes that she would have to pay (she said 50%!?) if she owned a 2nd condo herself.
Well anyway, I'm keeping my fingers cross it will be squared away by the end of April, so she can move here in the beginning of May.
I was prepared to wait months for the government(s) for the visa. But that part actually went pretty smoothly and quickly. Now, it is the real estate stuff that is causing the big delays. One never knows, does one?
It has been about a year and a half now, since we met, and a year since we started planning our life together.
2hip:
Wow, you were not kidding when you said how complex it is. I don't have any experience with the Chinese property things. But i was married to a woman form Moscow who died of breast cancer over 10 years ago. It is unbelievable how complex things can get over there. A husband and wife who own an apartment together have to have what is called a propiscus (phonetically spelled). It basically is a legal document that allows you to live in a city and the rights you have to that apartment. Once you are divorced or even separated...you both still have the right to occupy that apartment until you die. Even if she remarried and her new husband is living there. If you want to be a jerk about it...you can still live there and you have the full support of the law. That just blows me away. Many women in Russia are divorced and still living with their ex-husbands. If you don't have the money to buy the other one out...you are stuck with the laws.
Please do not interpret what i am about to say as negative criticism. It is not the thought i want to convey here. What is being proposed by her is to evade taxes by, what seems to me, a shady deal. I am not Chinese and neither are you. I am sure she is an honest woman trying to do the best she can with a difficult situation. Here is what i would do....and maybe you already are way further into this thought than i am....1. I would ask her if this is a legal thing that she can do ( because it sounds like it is tax evasion)? 2. I would ask if her ex-husband is fully aware of what she is proposing ( because using his name to sell the property and taking the proceeds out of escrow and directly into her accounts "immediately" raises the hairs on the back of my neck)?
3. If the chinese government finds out about this "tax evasion" mechanism she is proposing what are the legal ramifications of this evasion? 4. Who will be ultimately responsible for these lost taxes....her or her ex-husband if they catch it? 5. What are the legal ramifications for her travel out of China and into China if they catch wind of this?
My deceased Father was a Rotarian and they have a creed that i wish all people who walk this planet adhered to. It is not a religious statement. But I copied and pasted it.
1. Is it the truth?
2. Is it fair to all concerned?
3. Will it build goodwill and better friendships?
4. Will it be beneficial to all concerned?
You have gone through long stretches of time without your woman and are weary of the loneliness. I am sure she just wants to start her new life with you. Just because we can do something...doesn't mean we should. It truly sucks what our governments put us through to be together. Sometimes things can come back to you years later and bite you on the "arse"...With tax evasion ...no matter what country you are from...it is a Federal crime and punishable by owed taxes, fines, and interest and possibly ( actually LIKELY....PRISON)...Two famous cases in America recently are Wesley Snipes and Willy Nelson...both served time over back taxes (read tax evasion). What would happen if three years from now she goes home for a visit and is arrested upon entry? Can you imagine the financial carnage that would ensue? Can you imagine the emotional roller coast ride that would be?
China is getting their act together and are more efficient now than they were 5 years ago. They have so many people retiring in the next 5 years and do not have enough revenue to fund it. They are starving for tax dollars and are learning the western ways of how to chase the tax revenues. I would hate for black cloud to enter your marriage over a decision that wasn't thought out well. For example, what if she gets away with this and her ex is liable for the taxes that were absconded with? What message is the daughter picking up if her father is imprisoned or severely damaged by her actions? There are so many tangents to this issue, wouldn't you agree?
None of these words are meant to imply dishonesty or poor character. Maybe what she is doing is perfectly legal in chinese real estate. But the wording "to avoid taxes" is pretty clear in my mind as to the intent. Please consider trying to find an honest route (if it was understood correctly by me)...as being a better route. To hell with the money. Nothing more important than my reputation and health. I will finish off with an old Sanskrit verse that i used to teach my boyscouts..."The path of least resistance leads to crooked rivers and crooked men." It will also be a statement to your wife that you are a straight arrow and can walk the path of life with your head unbowed.
I am just concerned that the end result, togetherness, is your goal...but it doesn't mean that legal jeopardy is justified to obtain it. A simple solution is wait for the markets to improve. Rent the apartments both out and sell them when she is able. Simple is always better than complex...
Smaug:
2hip: I agree with you, regarding the honesty and integrity. But things work differently in China. There, it is not such a terrible thing to lie. To omit some part of the story that we would consider a "lie by omission" is commonplace there. They never share any detail that is not absolutely necessary to share, except with the very closest of friends.
On that topic, she told me: "Trust me on this; this is my country and I know how it works, OK?" I reply with some concern sometimes, but she is so confident and it hurts her if I don't trust her on it.
She talked to her ex-husband and asked if he wanted to buy their old condo back from her, and a steep discount; that would make all the paperwork very easy. He said no, he just invested in a place in Shanghai, and can't afford it now, but she's still holding out hope.
Conversely, sometimes I have to explain to her that things work differently here, and she just has to accept it. She is quicker to adapt to these things than I am. It seems to me that Chinese, in general, adapter quicker than westerners to cultural changes.
*********
The latest on the condo is that she told her realtor she has to leave by May 10th, so if it cannot be all completed before then, please rent it again. She is also lining up one of her friends to take care of selling it in her absence, although I can tell it really bothers her to do so.
Today, she "applied to resign." Apparently, it requires 1 month's notice there. Last week, she bought her plane tickets. She and her son will come on May 9th, no matter what happens with the condos. I had to really push her for that. I actually shared Willy's and IrishGuy's stories with her, which I think brought her around a little.
The Big Day is now less than 6 weeks away. I'm pretty amped-up.
Thanks for all your advice so far. :)
PS - A colleague of ours just returned to Chicago from Guangzhou and brought a couple bags full of slippers and photo albums. Lots of baby pictures of LiFu, with his ding-dong hanging out of those crotchless toddler pants they have there. There will be PLENTY of ammo to embarass him in front of his girlfriend in a few years, when he gets snotty with us. 8)
Smaug:
The Big Day is less than 4 weeks away now. I wish I had a time machine.
maxx:
Happy to hear it. Best wishes for along and happy life together.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version