China Romance
General Discussion and Useful Links => Ask An Experienced Member => Topic started by: zook144 on February 15, 2010, 01:33:52 pm
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I was going to hold off posting anything about my upcoming trip until about a week before i go. Which will be march 5. From virginia to Beijing then on to Handan. But after talking with Sha this morning and some of the questions she asked, I thought I would go ahead and post and perhaps get some perspective about some of her questions and what I have had on my mind.
First of all, I feel better about this trip than my last one. Different city, different lady. We have had a lot more webcam contact than I did with the previous one. Really only used about 5 or 6 EMF's. Then went to text messages, email then webcam. So, I feel I know her better, than just writing EMF letters. However, there are still questions. I know better than to think about things before they happen, but still they are on my mind. She has told me she lives a comfortable life. Has a steady income. Enjoys her job and evidently they treat her well. To be honest, i feel almost guilty to be even thinking about the possiblity of taking her away from that. If she comes here to US, I am almost sure she will not be able to find a job equal to the one she has. Her English is limited, and even with the year or so she would wait for a visa, she could learn English fairly well. Still what kind of job awaits her here. Fast Food, a waitress. I do not think it is or would be fair. To take her from what she has, to what she may end up doing when she gets here. She asked this question of me this morning. And I gave her the most honest answer I could. I told her I would not lie. It will be difficult. She would have to learn English in the time before she comes here and then see what happens. I did not know what else to say. I know it will be hard.
Then the question ...what if I miss my Mother too much? Yes, I was waiting on that one to show up eventually. It is only her, her mother, and her daughter. Her father passed away a long time ago. So it has been just her and her mother for a long time. And now her daughter who is 10. The answer here I gave....if you get homesick, you will have to make a trip to China to visit. And you will get homesick. No question in my mind. Next question....My mother afraid you will treat me bad. I tell her that is not my way. To treat my wife and partner badly. I want us both to be happy. If one is not happy, the other cannot be either.
Anyway, she took all my answers and seemed satisfied with them. Now my questions to you are.....what experience do any of you have with your Chinese spouse finding work when they came to US or elsewhere?We are talking about a lady doing (as far as I can tell) regular office and clerical work. And how long did it take for the matter of "Momma coming to live with us" to come up? And did any of you have to fight the belief that "the big bad American will treat you badly".
Just some things that have been on my mind, and now obviously on hers. Any insight would be appreciated.
Don
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Don , first ... yes of course I was checked over every well and some more before they felt comfortable enough with me to take good care of my Sweetheart . I do not have to worry about the Parent's being taken care of , as they can do that very well and still also have a Son that is well off too .
You do have to take this in count , her missing the Folks and expect to come up with the means to send her or both of you back for Visit's when needed . My Wife is using Skype now and Webcam will lessen being homesick somewhat but not all . I keep a close watch on my Wife's feeling's in that department believe me . It's a must .
About my Wife finding a Job , we talked about this also . She like to work at a Bank , as she thinks that is a very good Job to have . I agree with her . I told her she does not need a College degree for that . You just take money from People and give them money and ones in awhile bring some Home for us . hahaha
So since my Neighbor's Girlfriend works at BOA she can help us with that somewhat . Otherwise , we'll see ? She does know three Languages , that should be good for something .
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Don, My situation was different as you know I am not married but all of the questions you had I also had. My lady at the time was also worried about the good things. After Xu Le's parents met me they were no longer worried about the safety of their daughter living abroad. They also saw how much I respected and loved their daughter so they had no worries of me being abusive. When the work thing came into play, she was middle management for a japanese company. I was worried that she would not find a job that was good enough for her. So I did some searching and I know the courts are always looking for translators as her English gets better. And of course she heard from a friend that manicurist made good money and a lot were Asian, so she was very interested in this.
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Thanks for the input guys. I just want to make sure she is happy if and when she comes here. But, I know worrying about it now is kind of like putting the cart before the horse. First things first. The trip to China.
Ted, did you and your wife live in the US before you settled in China?
Don
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Don, There is nothing wrong with the concern and the thinking ahead. I do it all the time. :icon_biggrin:
My lady and I have talked about it, coming here to live, etc. My situation is almost one of a kind so figuring what will work isn't easy. Both her parents have passed and there isn't any children. But I still consider she may miss her family, friends, culture. So I can only propose what can be done after in different stages. It all depends on a business whether we will go to China and stay a while or just when possible. It depends on how things play out but I am always thinking how to make her feel at home and comfortable.
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My wife and I have discussed this quite a bit. She is looking forward to coming to the USA, but of course worried about her English. A job is not the main problem as she is a nurse with over 20 years experience and she is a surgical Physicians assistant in the OR. But she will have to know enough English to pass her licensing exam. We have discussed her missing her family. She wants to come back every two years and visit. No p;roblem there. But Mama keeps telling me that when I get rich, she wants me to buy a house next to her so her daughter can be there. I try to tell her unless I win the lottery it will be hard pressed to get rich as this stage of my life. She has a hard time understanding that so I just let it go. I told my wife she is welcome to come to the US and live with us but, she says no. we discussed this before we got married and everything was worked out. It seems that is what your doing now and that is a good thing. I will tell you this I think Arnold is your best advisor about all of this. He has been through it all. If you listen to him I dont think you can go wrong.
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Don,
no before i settled in China i lived in the USA and Siying lived in China. having been to China
and staying there a multitude amount of times i wanted to retire and go there to live. we will
go back to the USA when Siying is done working. she wanted to work another 4 or 5 years so
she will be able to get her retirement from the govt. my past experiences with China and bringing
my wife to the USA was from my first marriage to a chinese lady that didnt work out for me. which
actually was my second marriage after my first of 24 years was no longer.
Ted
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Missing mum is a big conversation topic between myself and Sissi (My Wife) , Sissi would love her mom to come and live with us here , but it seems impossible, so we are going to try and get mom a visitors visa once we are settled here , I will keep the option for Sissi to travel back to China whenever she feels she needs to , she is very close to her mum (divorced from dad so alone) .. makes me realise what she is giving up by marrying me ..
We hope to be lucky in the work department as Sissi's English is very good as she is a translator (not for ChinaLove) also speaking German and French .. ideally something using her language skills.
All i can suggest is talk open and honest about everything and always remember living away from family . friends in a new cultural society will take a lot of getting used to
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Reading this thread so far.... i think i'm lucky in so many ways, compared to many here. I don't have the problem of Lucy getting home sick, as she works with export companies in China, which involves returning to China pretty regularly. She also speaks, writes English better than some of us from English speaking countries, (ex asst' Professor of English) and can also hold a fairly decent conversation in Greek here with the locals!! (self taught!!) ...lol!!! And although she would dearly have loved to of had a child, alas it just didn't happen for her.
She is also used to traveling with work, as she used to be a business translator, and later combined with being a business negotiator. So knew the Western culture quite well long before i met her.
So, when reading others concerns and fears of bringing there wife's to there own countries, it really brought home, just how lucky i am with Lucy.
Even when i visit China, i can converse with her family pretty much freely in English, as all of her immediate family are also English speakers, her father especially so. Her father, his brother and her brother are, or were University English lecturers. Mum was taught by Dad, and although she speaks English quite well, her understanding of what's been said can be a little adrift at times...haha!!!
One things for sure though, these Chinese women don't give-up easily, if they Need to learn English they will do there up-most to learn. in fact they will do there up-most in everything they think they need do, to make there family a ''Happy Family'' What else could we possibly ask for Guy's??
David....
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David,
That last paragraph is so true. Peggy learns 100 English words to my one Chinese word.
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This is a gigantic worry for me. I don't think my lady has really thought about moving away from her folks. On the other hand she can't exactly live at home for the rest of her life.
I guess if she doesn't like England then we'll move somewhere else. But she is a bit of a princess, and will have to balance up being in China & being skint or being in England and having plenty of money :icon_cheesygrin:. I can guess which she would prefer.
Actually as far as I can tell as long as ladies get to go back for new year they would be quite happy - after all many Chinese work far away from home and only return home a couple of times a year.
Our Ladies seem to learn English real fast, although my lady is going to be surprised at how many characters I can read.
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I guess if she doesn't like England then we'll move somewhere else. But she is a bit of a princess, and will have to balance up being in China & being skint or being in England and having plenty of money :icon_cheesygrin:. I can guess which she would prefer.
Actually as far as I can tell as long as ladies get to go back for new year they would be quite happy - after all many Chinese work far away from home and only return home a couple of times a year.
How certain are you of the fact that they will be happy getting back just for the New Year. She could find the right man who wanted to live in China and she would be well off and happy!!!
Many Chinese do work a long way from home - True that is because they have too - given the choice the vast majority would prefer to stay closer to their homes.
Ok at the moment I am having problems with my bank which should be resolved in the next seven days but my wife, before we married, had an income of just 1000 rmb a month - now she has to make do with 10 times that amount. But she blesses the day that I told her that we would be living well in China rather than just getting by in the UK.
Just remember the Credit Crunch is due to return to the UK at the end of this year when the banks have to start paying back the money they borrowed from the government. Mortgages will be harder to get and business loans will be almost unheard of and more jobs will go with it. No ones job will be safe neither public or private. if anyone thought the credit crunch was over - think again.
I would rather be 'Skint' in China than continue living elsewhere.
Willy
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Skint??? ok Willy what does that stand for ?
i do think and believe that the ladies would like to remain in
China if that was an option for them and also be with their
man here. but they do know not many men are ready nor
capable to reside in China as they must continue to work
and then you have us 2 old farts (Willy,Me) who have an
income to be able to do this and live well here so it works
out well for us. if your retired and have income then i suggest
living here with your wife while you do the papers to get her
to go to your home. she would love the idea and you would enjoy
your stay here
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Ted,
''SKINT'', Stands for being penniless. It's a pretty commonly used word in the UK!! Not sure where that word originates from, but i'm sure someone here will know !! lol!!!
David...
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skint |skint|
adjective Brit., informal
(of a person) having little or no money available : I'm a bit skint just now.
ORIGIN 1920s: variant of colloquial skinned, in the same sense, past participle of skin .
Thanks to Mac Dictionary :icon_biggrin:
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Guys,
Again thanks for input. Now another question. I don't know if this has been addressed on here or not. And i figure I know what some of you will say. but.....if things go right, what about a pre-nup? I know some will think I'm a cheap bastard for even thinking about this. but this is real life, and sometimes things are bright in the beginning and then all hell breaks loose in a marriage. I am at the point, i can retire in a short few years, and I really don't want to have to work until I'm 80 (or dead) because of a divorce and alimony. I know, if you love someone, you should want to share with them. No problem with that. but if (heaven forbid) it doesn't work in the long run. What then? So again...anybody dealt with this and if so, how? By the way, i would wonder about this, if i married someone from the US, also.
Don
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having gone thru this with a chinese lady all that you have aquired prior to marriage
is yours. she would have to be a citizen to get any of your pension rights and you would
have to be together many years for that. after the divorce your financial obligations are over
if she is not a citizen. i know this because i divorced one who wanted a green card which i
never finished for her. she is still in calif and on assistance and works???
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Thanks Ted,
Hope it never comes to that, but one never knows.
Don
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Don, do a search for Gold digger, this was posted a short time ago.
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Chong is the expert on Prenups.He has reserched all the ins and outs.
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No pre-nup for me. Anyway that is too late now - do they have post-nups??? Is she leaves me then I will go for every one of the 683 rmb she has sorted away!!!:icon_cheesygrin:
Willy
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Don, do a search for Gold digger, this was posted a short time ago.
Thanks, Vince. I must have missed or forgot about that one. I will look it up.
Don
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Well, the time is getting closer. Only 10 days until lift off.:icon_biggrin: And a few more questions have cropped up. First off, for those of you that have flown into Beijing.....my lady keeps asking what chamber I will be arriving at. I am assuming she means what terminal. I will be flying in on United from Tokyo and as near as I can make out, they always arrive at Terminal 3. Anyone have any info on this. I called the airline and they said this too, but they have been wrong before. So thought I would ask the Brothers for any info. And anything else I should know about the airport? Are there 2 airports in Beijing? PEk and BCIA? Or are they the same? I thought they were different, but after reading about them on internet, they sound like the same one. I booked into PEK.
I will be spending the last 3 or 4 days of my trip in Beijing checking out the sites. Plan on seeing the Great Wall, Forbidden City, maybe the square( I can't spell it so i won't even try:huh:). And there is supposed to be a Harley Davidson Dealer somewhere in Beijing. Am going to try to find that also. I'm sure this has been brought up 100 times on here, but anything else we should check out. Not sure about hotels yet. My lady is supposed to be taking care of that. And doesn't seem to be in any hurry. This i am not used to. I'm used to getting these things taken care of well in advance. But I decided to go with the flow here and see what happens.
And lately she has taken quite an interest in the retirement situation. Not only mine, but hers. The way i understand it, men can retire at 55 and women at 45 in China. She only has about 5 or 6 years before she can retire. And I could retire in about 5 years if I decide to. Anyway, she says if she quits her job she would lose all that. Which is true. So, I am not sure how things will turn out. She obviously, has been thinking a lot about this. Once again, this trip, just going with the flow. And the 24 hour rule applies to absolutely everything I do not understand.
Oh, almost forgot! If anyone happens to be in Beijing March 12 thru the 14th and would like to meet up, I will try to make arrangements. Or Handan, the week before. Didn't figure anyone would be there..haha.
Don
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Terminal 3 is likely - it's the modern Norman Foster creation I think and it's all very easy to find your way around. I only transferred at Beijing though, I never went into the city. The airport is PEK but I suspect they may be changing the code to something else.
From what my lady has told me, Chinese retire early so younger people can get jobs and also so grandparents can look after children. Some jobs come with pensions but in Western terms they're likely to be peanuts. Some jobs do have useful medical insurance cover in retirement though.
Print out your hotel name in Chinese characters and show it to the taxi driver. Beware of unofficial taxis at airports! Good luck!
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Zook if she does quit early she does lose her retirement and medical if she has that
but if she goes to the USA and becomes a citizen she loses it anyway as China
doesnt recognize dual citizenship
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Zook,
You can always go for a fiancee visa, and get married in the States. Don't have the marriage recorded in anyway in China or the Chinese embassy, or her pension rights will be lost immediately!!
This is why a marriage between Lucy and myself will not ever be made known by anything that's Official in China or anywhere else that's linked to the Chinese authorities. When she retires, then her government pension monies will be deposited in her nominated bank account in China, and can be drawn out during our future visits...lol!!
As far as we are concerned this is legalised theft, she has worked all her life for that pension, ...it's her right as a Chinese citizen. Why should she lose that State pension just because she marries a foreign national!! ....
David....
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David, Lucy still works in China? I thought that is what I read a while ago. She comes down for visits? I didnt think that you were married. that gos to show how my memory is. Lol.
Hell, i dont blame you one bit. She deserves it. that is her safety net.
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Jim,
No, ...she doesn't work in China, but does work for Chinese companies here in Cyprus, she runs part of their European sales so she travels around central and Eastern Europe, and returns to China around 3 times a year with her work.
Now i didn't say if i was or weren't married now, did I !!...lol!!! The thing is Jim, ...no-one knows who monitors these Forums, so best to say nothing along those lines....
There are several ways around Zooks dilemma, like getting married in a country that Chinese citizens are free to travel too easily, then register that marriage with the American embassy in that country. It's not, or shouldn't be any different then to start your spouse visa application from China as usual. Might have to grease a few palms in the process but nothing insurmountable that i can see... lol!!
David.....
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I guess I'm missing the point you guys are trying to make.A Chinese women can live in the United States on a green card for her whole life.There is no law at this time that says that any foriegn national has to apply for U.S. citizenship.
The reason most foriegn nationals apply for U.S. Citizenship.Is so that they can vote.And be eligible for government grants and loans.And have access to government jobs.
I don't know the ins and outs of Chinese law.But I'm thinking that the U.S government.Does not publish lists of Chinese nationals who have gotten married in the United states.Privacy laws being what they are in the states.
I'm also thinking that the lady isn't posting a notice at her work that she is moving to America and getting married.So I don't know why you guys.Would think.This would mess up the ladies retirement.As long as there smart about it it shouldn't be a problem.
When you go threw the K visa process in the states.With a fiancee visa you have 90 days to adjust the ladies status.If you don't she is going to be deported and shipped back to China.When you adjust the ladies status.Part of the paperwork is a form called permission to travel.I think it cost me a 100.00 U.S. it took 2 weeks to arrive.
The permission to travel form is really unnecessary.If I had waited another 2 weeks.Till we received the temporary green card.I could of saved myself a 100.00.With the temporary green card.The only restriction is that the woman can't break the law.And she has to live in the states.I think it was 6 weeks out of the year.(Need to Check that statement) temporary green card is valid for 2 years.
After 2 years the temporary green card expires.Then you just apply for the permanent green card which is good for 10 years.The only stipulation on the permanent green card.Don't break the law.(robbery murder rape).Small offenses they don't care about.The lady is free to travel and live outside the states for as long as she wants to.When the lady reenters the U.S. with a permanent green card.Border patrol can't even mess with them.Any more then they do the average citizen.
On the marriage visa Nik or Arnold would be the guys to talk to.I think they have 2 years to adjust there wives status.And they get the permanent green card right off the start.I'm thinking there is no temporary green card.
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Maxx,
I don't think anyone says there is a problem with what your talking about here. The only problem as far as the ladies are concerned, is that they can very easily lose there retirement pension rights if the Chinese authorities ever find out about their marriage to a foreign national....
As you say, once married in the US or anywhere else come to that, if your ''Smart'' they will never find out. The hardest part, is getting the fiancee visa to the US and her not having her family around her when she gets married in the US.....
This shouldn't be much of a concern for the younger Chinese women, really only affects those ladies that are nearing there retirement age, say 45 to 50. But as i've said before, ALL Chinese citizens are entitled to the national pension, it shouldn't be dependant on who you marry or where you choose to live after retirement.
David......
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David yes I can see now what your saying.They could loose there retirments if the Chinese goverment found out that they married a foriegnor
What they can do is the same thing me and my wife did.We had a wedding party in China.Everybody gets dressed up you have the dinner take the pictures invite the relatives.Everything is the same.You just don't have the red books.No red books in China means no marraige.It was just a party
When the lady does receive her visa and comes to the states.Then you can have another wedding party.Only this time have the marriage license.
The first party cost me 2,500 U.S. dollers.The second party we had in the States cost me maybe a 100.00 dollars.The wedding in the states was just me and my wife and a couple of my friends.To stand in as wittnesses.
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Maxx,
Yes, ...exactly!! Or you could wait till you marry in the States, have a wedding there for your family, then a visit back to China and have a wedding reception there, along the lines you stated. Either way, all are catered for..haha!! And the Chinese authorities are none the wiser!! lol!!
When you got married this way, was it for the same reason, or just how it worked out for you, and just realised the benifits after ?? haha!!!
David....
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My wife really wanted to have the wedding party with her family and friends in China.I knew I was going to have to do this again in the States.But I did already know how much it was going to cost me in the states.So I wasn't to worried.
The real problems popped up when my mom.Wanted to have a Big wedding in the states.After the party in China. five trips back and forth to China.All the government paperwork and fees and lawyers fees.I was really broke.I finally told my mom if she wanted that Kind of wedding she was going to have to pay for it.For some strange reason after I told my mom that.The big wedding party in the states Idea.Kind of died a real quick death.
I think my step father put a stop to it.He is so tight with money he sqeeks when he walks
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Finally heard from my lady this morning. Got the hotel booked for the night I land in Beijing. Looks like she went very conservative. Thats ok, I guess. Only be there for one night only anyway, then head for Handan the next day. Hotel is near the train station. And that is where we need to be on Sunday Morning. Thanks for your ideas on the retirement situation. Gives me some suggestions to talk to her about. As she is not quite ready to retire, the hard part would be being apart for another few years. Married or not.
Don
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Don,
How old is your future wife right now?? ...Now I know that can be a difficult question to answer, seeing as they can have around 3 birthdays, .....and more if they really want to go to town!!! lol!!!
David.......
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David yes I can see now what your saying.They could loose there retirments if the Chinese goverment found out that they married a foriegnor
What they can do is the same thing me and my wife did.We had a wedding party in China.Everybody gets dressed up you have the dinner take the pictures invite the relatives.Everything is the same.You just don't have the red books.No red books in China means no marraige.It was just a party
When the lady does receive her visa and comes to the states.Then you can have another wedding party.Only this time have the marriage license.
Maxx,
Tell me more. Right now my fiancée' and I are going through the pictures and the wedding preparation process for this May. I was not aware and she might not be aware of the loss of a National pension.
If you did not complete your marriage in China, how did you handle the VISA? Also what if the wife has a child, how would this play out under your approach. Thanks for the input.
zook144
I am very familiar with Handan – hotels, restaurants, markets, you name it. Just returned from 14 days there for the New Year on Tuesday night (2/23/2010).
I’ve been there five times in the past 10 months or so. My fiancée and her family live there. Also I have a business there. I am returning in May to get married. So if you need to know anything, I can certainly share some of my thoughts with you. So let me know.
Whether you are planning on taking the fast of regular train to Handan, it is a pretty smooth ride. Also right about now, the flow of people will certainly not be as it was 14 or 15 days ago.
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Don,
How old is your future wife right now?? ...Now I know that can be a difficult question to answer, seeing as they can have around 3 birthdays, .....and more if they really want to go to town!!! lol!!!
David.......
David....she is 39 now, 40 in October. And I figure that whatever type visa we would go for would take about a year. So 41 when that would go through. By then, only about 4 years before the retirement thing. A shame to give up whatever she would get for that length of time. I know I would probably not do it. Matter of fact, I am sure of it. I told her it was a decision she would have to make. After thinking about a little bit, she said "I probably would not wait". But, I'm the type of guy that would feel guilty about taking that away from her no matter how much or little it was. Like I said earlier, its all kinda "cart before the horse". This will be our first meeting. I am also a "wait and see" type of person. Never promise anything until you are sure. So a lot to play out yet. But as all these questions come up, I am trying my best to look at both sides and do the right thing. I would expect no less. I do sort of like the idea of going to another country that she could go to and marry. That sounds like a doable thing. I'll have to run that by her also. Her family is small, but she does have like a thousand friends it seems. ha So, not sure how she feels about a big wingding in China.
zook144
I am very familiar with Handan – hotels, restaurants, markets, you name it. Just returned from 14 days there for the New Year on Tuesday night (2/23/2010).
I’ve been there five times in the past 10 months or so. My fiancée and her family live there. Also I have a business there. I am returning in May to get married. So if you need to know anything, I can certainly share some of my thoughts with you. So let me know.
Whether you are planning on taking the fast of regular train to Handan, it is a pretty smooth ride. Also right about now, the flow of people will certainly not be as it was 14 or 15 days ago.
Hey thanks, Metooap
I would appreciate any insights you can give me about Handan. I am trying to leave hotels up to her. She says I do not need reservations in Handan. I guess they are not that busy. haha She said the bullet train from Beijing to Handan and it took about 4 1/2 hours. Plan on being in Handan about 4 or 5 days and then back to Beijing for the last 2 or 3. Anything I should not miss out on in Handan? If you have any info, you can pm me or write it on here. I appreciate anything you can tell me.
Oh, what type of business do you have there? (if you don't mind my asking)
Don
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metooap,
I'm pretty sure that your fiancee will know all about the consequences for her , marrying a foreign national. She will lose all pension rights and any medical security and a few more things besides.
If she then becomes a citizen of a foreign country, she will actually need a visa like any other foreign national to enter her own country, as China does not recognise duel nationality!!!
I think you've left it a little late to go down this route now, as your planning your marriage for this May. You would first need to apply for a ''fiancee visa'' for your country, before you can do anything else and that takes time....
Once married in the states, any children your wife may already have, would come under the general rules relating to eligibility, ....as they would you marrying anywhere else , like China!!
If you go this route for arguments sake, you wife will remain in the eyes of the Chinese authorities as ''unmarried'', so if you intend living in China for any length of time, you won't be able to use your wife as a means of getting your residency permit/visa.... So really only works for those couples that are not intending to live/retire in China. Unless you have another means of getting your residency permit/visa of course.... Like a Business, ...lol!!!
David.....
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Don, (Zook)
As you say, It's always best to be aware of everything your getting yourself involved with and in.
So yes, let's see how everything goes with your first meeting, and take things from there.
Yes your right, ...the National Pension it isn't much, but as you say, it is a safety net of sorts and more importantly it is her right!! She will have worked long and hard all her life, for that little bit of monthly money. It's the principle of the thing in my way of thinking....
David....
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metooap,
I'm pretty sure that your fiancee will know all about the consequences for her , marrying a foreign national. She will lose all pension rights and any medical security and a few more things besides.
If she then becomes a citizen of a foreign country, she will actually need a visa like any other foreign national to enter her own country, as China does not recognise duel nationality!!!
David....
David
Thanks.
She probably does know about the consequences. But this is the first I heard of the losing retirement thing, etc. It is not a big deal, but I do need to discuss and make sure she knows this.
By the way, I do have a business - but I really have not looked at the ends and outs of the benefits in terms of VISA etc. I guess I need to look at this too.
Hey thanks, Metooap
I would appreciate any insights you can give me about Handan. I am trying to leave hotels up to her. Don
Don,
Right outside of Handan they hand make what is called China Black Pottery. I am in the high end art and investment business, so we have some of our product custom made there.
No normally you do not have to have reservations in Handan. But it depends upon where you are staying. The very best place there is the Handan Hotel – it is five stars and goes down from there. It is really up to you and your lady what you are comfortable with. I travel their a lot, so I get comped out quite a bit.
Handan is a small town. Though you certainly will be a novelty the people are very friendly. They will go out of their way to make sure that you are okay. Handan is certainly not your Beijing, but most anything you want to do you can. They a many restaurants with all sorts of food. The prices are great. If you need a list of some of the better places, let me know.
If you are arriving there late, and your lady lives in the city, leaving the train station you may have a short wait. Taxis first try to land their longest trip. It is no big deal though.
In Beijing, they do have different airports you want (PEK); the major airport. The main arrival and departure hub is at terminal 3. They have super sub system so you will not have any problems.
If this is your very first trip, I would suggest, stopping at the Money Exchange before departing the baggage area and getting a $50 or $100 or so in Yuan to take care of taxis etc., unless you have this already worked out with your lady. Unless you are staying the night in Beijing, you’ll need a taxi to either go to a hotel or train station. You will need to plan for 40 minutes to 1 hour to go from the airport to the Train station. This is not rush hour traffic. Rush hour – you will need to allow yourself a little more time.
The train ride either on the fast or slow train is very good. If you ever happen to get the slow train, takes about 2 more hours, you may want to get what is called a sleeper car. It will cost a few more Yuan. But the ride is worth it. Again, if you are on the fast train no problem.
In Handan, after the first trip, you probably will not be doing much site seeing, depending upon your situation, you will be spending quite a bit of time getting to know not only your lady but her family.
If you do the family thing, remember that is normally impolite not to eat all of your food and ask for more – especially if you are in a family setting. Also, normally you will be expected to drink your share as well.
A note of caution, the beer is good. But the general drink there is white wine – which is quite a bit different – about 53% proof different, than our traditional white wine - or any of our wine for that matter. The stuff will put you under, so do not get hood winked into going toe to toe with the Dad or brother, or even your lady. It will be – no contest, lights out.
Hope this helps. If you need more, or get stuck in any way, while there, I have people who are like family in many areas that can lend a hand.
Enjoy your trip.
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metooap is correct trend lightly on some of the wine here as it
will turn the lights out:icon_cheesygrin: fairly quickly
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.
Hahahaha, I'm not a drinker at the best of times so i'd be the first under the table, with the lights out...lol!! ...I'm not even sure you could realistically call that stuff ''wine'' anyway!! It's more like Saki to my undiscerning pallet, sure doesn't taste much like the wine i'm used to anyway ...lol!!
David......
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straight alcohol with a touch of flavoring haha
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HaHa i am not much of a drinker anymore, so if this is what is expected of me, I might as well put a pillow and blanket under the table. lol
Don
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zook144,
I am not much of a drinker either - so get a pillow!!!
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pillows are cheap in china no need to bring with you:icon_cheesygrin:
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ttwjr32
I agree with you.
By the way, how far is Handan from where you are?
Maybe on my next visit - I can swing around in your direction. I know we have to go several places.
So let me know.
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Metooap,
im not sure of the time but i would think maybe a 2 hour flight?
handan is north of me so i think 2 hours by plane maybe a little longer
will you be down this way or close to hear??
Ted
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ttwjr32
I know I will be in China in May.
I will look to see if we are in the area - we will at least say hi!
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Well, a bit of an update. One more day of work and it will be lift-off time. Roanoke to Chicago to Tokyo to Beijing. Take off early Friday morning. Last time we talked, she said didn't know about getting tickets from Beijing to Handan on Sunday for the train. So maybe her friends would drive to pick me up. Now I'm thinking.....4 hours by train....its gotta be at least 6-8 hours by vehicle. Can you imagine me in a car full of Chinese ladies on the road for about 7 hours or so. :icon_eek: I suggested trying for advance tickets. So we will see. Always an adventure:icon_cheesygrin:
Don
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Hi Don,
I hope you have a good trip this time and that everything works out with Sha. I remember reading your thread on your trip to Shenyang and hope you have sucess this time around. I look forward to reading how things go. I just returned a few days ago myself and miss Linda like crazy. Good luck with everything!
Kenny
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Thanks Kenny,
Just got home from work. I've got about a thousand things to do before in the morning. I'm one of those "pack at the last minute" type people.
I'll have to check and see what the weather is like in Beijing and Handan. So I'll know whether to take spring or winter clothes. I'll try to post when I can.
Don
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Thanks Kenny,
Just got home from work. I've got about a thousand things to do before in the morning. I'm one of those "pack at the last minute" type people.
I'll have to check and see what the weather is like in Beijing and Handan. So I'll know whether to take spring or winter clothes. I'll try to post when I can.
Don
Don,
Have a fantastic trip. Post often and if you need anything - holler!
Alton
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Have a great trip Don.
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Don,
keep us updated if you have the time.
have a great trip and dont forget the pics:icon_cheesygrin:
Ted
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This is what happens when I work late, everyone already said what I was going to. Have a good trip, enjoy yourself and photos always.
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Ooooops i'm a bit late, but this time of year you need winter clothes in both cities. If the weather changes, then you can always buy some summer type cothes there cheaply....
David....
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winter will be here for a while in the north
no need for lite clothes
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Ted,
Ah!!, but you do get those days when the Sun comes out and the temp rockets for a day, maybe 2 or 3 even. Iv'e got family in Changsha, and a few days ago they reported a temp of 29C for a day!! Amazing really considering the day to day temps presently are around 6 to 11C....
Your neck of the woods is warming up now too, ....or should be!!
David......
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the weather has been wonderful in GZ for the most part every month
we get a run of 2 or 3 days were it gets to 10 or 11 c then it warms up
again hahahaha
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We have had some fantastic days here too getting up to 5 to 10 degrees C! Snows almost all gone here.
Dave C
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Ooooops i'm a bit late, but this time of year you need winter clothes in both cities. If the weather changes, then you can always buy some summer type cothes there cheaply....
David....
Day late and a dollor short, David. Well, I am in Beijing. Just got booked into the hotel. Its about 1:30am, so this will be short. A few comments so far:
Damn, its a long plane ride here.
Probably won't go the United route again.l
It's cold.
She's fantastic, looks great, a bit shy, though.
More later. I'm going to bed
Don
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zook144,
Day late and a dollar short,
Yep!! Could almost be the story of my life just recently too!!! hahaha!!
David....
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Another update of sorts,
In short....I think things are going fairly well. Thats it...end of update:icon_cheesygrin:
No, just kidding. A few things I can report. Arrived at Beijing airport on time, but it was about an hour or so later by the time I got through all the immigration and collected baggage. I was looking for Sha all over the place as I made it through each section. Finally I got through all the official stuff and baggage claim and down the stairs I went. Holly crap, there had to be 800 people lined up to meet incoming passengers. i thought "How in the world will I find her in this mess?" Sha was more or less going down the barrier rails that were seperating passengers from greeters and there I see her. Couldn't miss her! Biggest brown eyes you ever saw and long hair that gets me going every time I see her photo or her on the webcam. And she saw me about the same time. There she is waving along with her friend she brought along with her. She was also a translator who works on her own. Anyway, we hook up, give each other a hug, do all the "nice to meet you" stuff and its time for pictures. I put my luggage down to do the photos along with my little pouch I was wearing around my neck with a few c cards and a little money. Didn't want to look dorky for the photos with that "thing" around my neck. Pictures are taken all around....Sha and I, Jenny (friend/translator) and I, then got someone to take all of us together. Great photos, except for me in it. (I take really bad pictures). then out to the bus to go to hotel by the train station. Just about to get on the bus...and here comes someone yelling.....a lot.....:huh: Turns out this guy was hollering at me. He rushes up and hands me my little pouch I had taken off my neck to get my picture took. I couldn't believe it.....I couldn't believe I was that stupid, I couldn't believe I was that lucky...I couldn't believe that someone rushed out to give it to me. I'm 95% sure that would not have happened in the states. My passport was not in it as I had taken it out earlier, but like I said, a couple credit cards and about 2000 chinese cash I had just converted. Oh yea, and my drivers license. I put all that stuff in there, hung it around my neck and thought..."yeah, this will be a lot safer than in my wallet" Thats what I get for thinking.
Anyway we got to the hotel. And pretty much crashed right after that. This morning...breakfast and then to the bullet train for the trip to Handan. Which I really enjoyed. Haven't been on a train ride for centuries it seems. What I didn't enjoy was sitting at the Beijing train station for 2 hours waiting for the train. We were trying to talk and translate with the station announcer blaring in our ears every other sentence. And people....lots and lots of people. I told you in my short post last night she was a bit shy when we first met. So I thought "hey she's got to get over this". So I initiated the hand holding on the bus in Beijing. Thats been pretty much standard from then on. So I'll take that and a couple of kisses on her cheek I got away with today. After all its only day one. I have done more today than I did on my entire trip the first time I visited a lady in China. Met 2 more of her friends for dinner tonight. Then dropped them off and went for a Chinese massage. Wow!
I'll tell you about that next time. I'll post some photos a little later. Especially of me getting tortured during the massage.
Don
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I am really surprised that it took you that long to get through customs and baggage. I usually zip right through. Although I usually go in the middle of the week, not on a friday or saturday. Get used to all of the people. Everywhere you go there is a ton of people. Have a good trip and it seems to have gotten off to a good start.
Jim & Gina
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So far, so good, Don
Fingers crossed for the remainder of your trip...good hunting :icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin:
David
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Zook,
that is China. for the most part 99 out of 100 will hunt you down to return
something you left or dropped. its really a wonderful thing to see happen.
i have had a few instances like that and it makes you think.
"wow there are some good people left in the world''
and your right in the states someone would have opened it looked in
and thought to themselves my lucky day and would have kept it
good to hear its started well and keep us posted
and i know what you mean about the hair my wifes hair is long and almost
to her waist and i love that. she is letting it grow a little longer till it gets
past her belt line
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Another update
I am here in hotel room waiting for Sha to come by. We leave Handan today, going back to Beijing. Arnolds friend, Jonvey, has agreed to be our guide to Great Wall and other sites around the city. Only problem I am having has been caused by weather. Didn't realize it would be this cold here, so naturally I have a cold now. They bought me some medicine that really kicks me in the rear. Sha and I seem to be getting on great.
One thing that took me by surprise, we went to dinner the other night with a friend of hers. So at the restuarant they have private eating rooms. They open the door, and there are 2 guys waiting for us. Friends of Sha's. Both had been in military for 20 years. Now one was a policeman, and the other worked in a bank. Guess they wanted to meet me and see if I passed the test. I would say I passed. They are drinkers. Tried to put me under the table, but I kept up pretty good and walked out upright. (the advice about the white wine proved correct) Everyone was VERY happy that night. Then went to a club with the karioki (misspelled) And of course they had me singing too. I met the mother and daughter last night at dinner. Cute and sweet little girl. And mother very nice.
I would write more, but my brain is muddled with this damn cold and medicine. So will wait for the webs to clear before giving more details. I did resize a picture last night. I will post it. and add more later.
Don
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glad to hear everything went well with mom and daughter
very important aspect to these relationships.
Don have some more of that white wine it will cure what ails you:icon_cheesygrin:
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.They are drinkers. Tried to put me under the table, but I kept up pretty good and walked out upright. (the advice about the white wine proved correct) Everyone was VERY happy that night.
Don
Don,
Yes that white wine ` very powerful!!!! Right?
Also do not worry about the cold. They will give you some stuff that will zap that right out - so do not worry about the cold. Just have a great time and keep us posted.
Also, tell me about your translator, did she go back to Beijing with you? Or did you make it back on your own with Sha?
Alton
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Also, tell me about your translator, did she go back to Beijing with you? Or did you make it back on your own with Sha?
Alton
I'm still waiting for Sha. She didn't think I had warm enough jeans, so she was going to buy some before she comes over this morning. So I won't be so cold. I'll probably smother now:icon_biggrin:
Alton, the translator she brought to Beijing to pick me up was a friend of hers. She did an ok job of translating. 26 years old and looking for western husband, by the way. All her friends seem to be looking.
We are going to Beijing by ourselves. We have done a remarkable job with the electronic translators, sign language, and with what English she knows. So I don't see any problems with communication. She uses her electronic translator and I have a Besta 7000. Seems to be doing an ok job.
Don
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We are going to Beijing by ourselves. We have done a remarkable job with the electronic translators, sign language, and with what English she knows. So I don't see any problems with communication. She uses her electronic translator and I have a Besta 7000. Seems to be doing an ok job.
Don
Don,
Very good job. Really well done. We found that as soon as we could get off on our own the quicker we could sort things out. Really sounds like you are on your way. Congratulations to you and Sha.
Alton
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I am enjoying reading about your trip. Good fortune at the airport for you. Best wishes for the rest of your journey :sleepy:
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it always better to be by yourself and stumble thru everything
rather than have the third wheel i think. good luck on the rest of the
trip
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Guess its update time. I had this all written up this morning and the internet burped so I somehow lost it, so hope this works this time.
Last time I updated I think I told you I had met Sha's Mother and daughter. Nice lady and very sweet daughter. (10) The mother did not say much. And a lot taller than most Chinese ladies. Sha told me later she used to play basketball at some time. I now know where Sha gets her height from.
Anyhoo, we had dinner. Also there were her friend the translater, and another close friend of hers. Of course, they gave me way more than I could eat. No way, can I keep up with a chinese lady when it comes to eating. So I had to leave some. Probably wasn't a good idea, but when I've had enough, that's it, got to stop. Also, unlike a lot of the brothers, my stomach is not cast iron. Some things just won't go down. So, anyway, dinner over, Sha took me back to the hotel. She drives by the way, and has her own car. She doesn't drive like most chinese, though, she goes slow. So slow I thought we would get run over. I know she would have gotten run over if in the states. Only saw her drive fast once, and that was when she thought we were going to be late for the train.
I had told you the first few days went really well. I mean laughs, meeting friends (they liked me by the way), holding hands, kisses, smiles, she was happy and believe me, I was very happy. But...then she picks me up for the train from Handan to Beijing. Different lady almost. Acted distracted, a little distant, more a stone faced chinese lady (if you know what I mean). We get to the train on time and head to Beijing. Pretty uneventful trip. We did hold hands on the train, but she covered it up with her coat. I just figured she was cold, because she was always cold.
We arrive in Beijing, taxi to hotel. Lobby looks great, rooms absolutely suck. In my mind anyway. Small room, no window, walls so thin you hear everything going on. If it hadn't been for her, I would not have stayed there. It's the Hua Fu Hotel, not sure what the street is. I know why she booked it though. Wasn't that expensive, maybe $45 a night. It is convenient to everything. Forbidden City very close, walking distance. Also Tieni mien Square 10 minutes away. And a long line of street food sellers that was very interesting. I'll post a pic of my favorite menu sign I saw, if I can get it on here. Also, every other kind of shop you could ever be looking for. Plus restaurants galore. So very good location if that is what you are looking for. Several other hotels in area also.And a tour company runs tours out of the hotel. That, I think, is the main reason she chose it. I was going to use Arnolds friend for a tour guide, but Sha thought it was way too much money. And compared to what she had booked it was. Yes, she had already booked the tour and didn't tell me about it. So, naturally, we took the one she booked. It took us to the Great Wall, and several other places, had lunch and didn't get back to hotel until about 5 or 6pm. A full day....the problem was about everywhere they stopped ended up more or less a souvenier shop. One place they even had us go into a room and a girl , then a man, came in with a big speech about whatever they were selling. I didn't understand a word of it and it probably lasted about 20 minutes. A few of us left and didn't even see what they were selling. But we had to wait for everyone else on bus to do the shopping thing. So very boring. Even Sha was disgusted by the time we were through. And a side note on the Great Wall. If you are not a very healthy person or have leg or knee problems, probably not a good idea. I made it to a certain point and then had to rest. Those are way high steps.
Well, that gets you up to a certain point. I'm tired now and my plane leaves tomorrow. So I need to sleep. Oh yea, it snowed most of the day in Beijing today. Oh joy, Oh joy. I had seen enough snow in Virginia this year to last me forever. But it just had to snow on my last day here.
Will update more when I get the chance.
Don
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Hey Don,
Great update. I am guessing you went to Badaling. That's where they usually take people who are visiting the Great Wall. It is DEFINITELY a trek and not for those who are not healthy. My advice for anyone who is contemplating visiting there, make sure you leave at least 3 hours for your there. More if you're planning on both wings. And if possible, do it during a cold period of time (less pollution). I've never seen an area with more variable steps, changing inclines and uneven terrain in my life. Great workout, but wow!
As for the hotel, there are a few hotels there that would probably be better for you like Super8 or Jinjiang Inns... They are peppered around there and would been better value is my bet.
Again, great update.
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Really enjoyed the updates Don. Did you ever figure out of something was bothering Sha?
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Well, it is time to try and finish my story. I am back in the States now. Arrived last night about 10:30pm. Slept all night and half the day today. Have one more day before returning to work.
Really enjoyed the updates Don. Did you ever figure out of something was bothering Sha?
Martin, As a matter of fact, I think I did. I am getting to that.
When we first arrived in Beijing, Sha got a call from work. She had forgotten to leave the key to the safe at work. So we kind of laughed at that a little. Kind of an important thing to forget. Then they called again later in the day and I guess wanted her to come in Sunday. Which meant she would have to leave Saturday. Ok, I understand no problem. she had already told me she misunderstood. Thought I was leaving Sunday instead of Monday. And she had taken all week off from work. I knew she would have to make it up somehow, so was not too upset by this. I don't think I said before, but I had kept asking Sha if something was wrong and what was she thinking. She had told me "Mother worries". So I knew that wasn't good. So Thursday night about 12:30am her phone rings. Its mother. I asked again if a problem she says, "Mother worried". So she gets 2 more calls within probably about an hour or so. Mother again. Then she wanted me to be quit, because we are not supposed to be in same room unless married or engaged. She says mother wants me to come home soon as possible. And asks me what she should do. Well, me being the selfish person i am, and at the moment not having real kind thoughts about "mother", I finally told her "I would like you to at least stay tomorrow (Friday) and then if you must, leave as early Saturday as you need to." She seemed satisfified with that and its what we did. So, I guess the problem is "mother". I knew family had a great impact on daughters, but her being divorced and already having a child, i did not think she would have that big of a hold on her. And I really think this is the problem. I do not think she is telling me any kind of lies. By having such a good time before and then after, this complete change. To tell you the truth it really blows my mind. I had trouble with the one mother-in-law that I did have. Always putting things in my wifes head and trying to get us to do this or live there. Didn't work then, and probably wouldn't work now. But, heck, at the time, I thought she was a nice lady.
Anyway, Friday, we continued our touring Beijing. First, we went to the Beijing Harley Davidson store. I just had to have a t-shirt with Beijing on it. And of course, several of my Harley friends wanted me to bring them back one, too. So, I spent about $300 US on t-shirts. Then we went to the Forbidden City and spent the afternoon there. Once again, a lot of walking and more steps. Those Chinese have a thing for steps. We took pictures and saw the sights. While I was there in China, I saw 3 or 4 temples. Got so they all looked the same to me. Then we ate and went back to hotel room. Later that night, I got hungry again and was tired of hearing other people talk outside our room. I had told you that it was very noisey in our hotel. I asked if she wanted to come with me. I was only going to KFC. She said no, you go ahead. We hadn't talked much, so I thought "what the heck, why stay here, we're not communicating much anyway." so away I went. Welll...I stayed away a little too long I guess. When I got back she was coming down the elevator going to look for me. The next day she said she was not happy about that. That it made her unhappy. She thought I had gone wrong. I took it, she thought I got lost or something. Which could have happened very easily, as I am terrible with directions. But, then again, I didn't think it really mattered. She wasn't saying anything, only when I asked her something. Otherwise sleep and watch tv. So hey, I didn't think much about going to eat and then look around a little. The next morning before she left to go back to Handan, we went shopping at the market. Man, Everyone was waiting at the door for it to open, and it wasn't minutes until it was packed. You couldn't even stop to look at things. I stayed with her for about an hour, then she asked if I was tired I could go back to the hotel. So away I went. She came back about 12:15pm and then had to leave about 12:30 to catch the train to Handan. It was leaving at 2pm. I put her in the taxi, gave her a kiss on the cheek, she waved goodbye and that was it. Needless to say, i am very dissappointed in this adventure. Everything going so well and then the complete turnaround. If things had continued as they did the first 3 or 4 days, there is no doubt, I would have asked her to marry me. But after the change, i didn't think that would be a good move. Oh yeah, I also got her to call the owner of the agency for me. She wanted to know why, and I told her. Said I needed to know why this change and couldn't get anything out of her. The owner, Echo, a very nice lady and speaks very good english. She told me Sha's mother was worried and now that the reality of my being there and this really happening was making Sha think more about it. And she was concerned about the language barrier. All legitimate concerns, but going from happy, laughing, kissing, holding hands, and so on, to going almost into a shell. I don't know. it's a puzzle to me. She knows of this forum, also the agency knows of it. Whether they moniter it or not, I do not know. But some things I will keep to myself for now. But mostly, I have given all the facts in hopes you can shed a little light on this for me. She had asked if I wrote anything on here about her. I told her I had written everything was going great. And at the time it was. So she didn't seem upset by that. I sent her an emf letter today. i had told her I would write her when I returned to the US. I basically told her I did not understand the situation. but I would and could wait a while for her to get to know me better. That is if that is what the problem is. If she keeps doing the webcams, i guess I will know she is still interested. if not, guess not. We usually do webcams on her Saturday mornings. so if I see her then, and get a response from the emf I sent, things may be ok. Told her I liked her very much and missed her already (which I do). But I am not a kid, so if it does not work, things will go on. Spring is about here, i have a Harley to ride, and lots of pretty girls to look at. so things will go on. But I will wait awhile on Sha, to see what she says or does. By the way, if I didn't mention it, when we visited her agency, she even told them to hide her profile. So, at the time I know she was interested.
That's about it for now. Its one of those "will just have to wait and see situations". Am posting some pics
the family
getting a (SURPRISE) complete body massage
meeting friends
at her house
Echo & ladies at agency
in Beijing
temple Forbidden City
Don't ask, don't tell
Don
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Wow...one hell of a story! I don't know what to say! It must be really confusing!
Second picture...is this the way to prevent from getting lung cancer...smoke through your ears?
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well we all hope for the best for you
good pics from the trip
let us know how it goes
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Don
Great story, like Ted said hope it all works out the best for you.
From looking at the pics her smile seems very geniune to me. She looks very happy.
I would like to see what $300 worth of tshirts looks like. HAHA
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Well, it is time to try and finish my story. I am back in the States now. Arrived last night about 10:30pm. Slept all night and half the day today. Have one more day before returning to work.
but I had kept asking Sha if something was wrong and what was she thinking. She had told me "Mother worries". So I knew that wasn't good. I asked again if a problem she says, "Mother worried". So she gets 2 more calls within probably about an hour or so. Mother again. Then she wanted me to be quit, because we are not supposed to be in same room unless married or engaged. She says mother wants me to come home soon as possible. So, I guess the problem is "mother". By having such a good time before and then after, this complete change. The next day she said she was not happy about that. That it made her unhappy. She thought I had gone wrong. She came back about 12:15pm and then had to leave about 12:30 to catch the train to Handan. It was leaving at 2pm. I put her in the taxi, gave her a kiss on the cheek, she waved goodbye and that was it. Needless to say, i am very dissappointed in this adventure. Everything going so well and then the complete turnaround. She told me Sha's mother was worried and now that the reality of my being there and this really happening was making Sha think more about it. And she was concerned about the language barrier. All legitimate concerns, but going from happy, laughing, kissing, holding hands, and so on, to going almost into a shell. I don't know. it's a puzzle to me. But mostly, I have given all the facts in hopes you can shed a little light on this for me. She had asked if I wrote anything on here about her. I told her I had written everything was going great. And at the time it was. So she didn't seem upset by that. I sent her an emf letter today. i had told her I would write her when I returned to the US. I basically told her I did not understand the situation. but I would and could wait a while for her to get to know me better. That is if that is what the problem is. If she keeps doing the webcams, i guess I will know she is still interested. if not, guess not.
Don
Don
You already know the challenge - mother. You did not speak of father so I assume father is not in the picture. If the post includes a picture of the mother with Sha's daughter (I am assuming), it is clear to see in the picture mother is not happy.
It has been my experience that early on when you meet the parents you have to sit down and talk with them. The parents want to know your intentions. They want to know what do you have planned for their daughter and her daughter. Why? Where does Sha's daughter fit in and where does the mother fit in. The parents should be given the opportunity to ask you any and all questions. These things can not be taken for granted they must be discussed. Not only discussed but you have to get a commitment not only from Sha but the parent/s as well.
Otherwise, a problem.
I think early on it went very well because Sha was very happy to see you, and she had no worries. The worry and pressure came after meeting mother, the calls and the feedback.
Whether we like it are not - until your connection and commitment is made at a very strong level, you must go through mother and or parents -that is just the way it is.
Afterwards, and you and Sha communicate on different level - then basically you and Sha call the shots. Until then a specific protocol sets in - including the concept of face.
It is not at all lost.
But in my opinion, you have to go back and cover some ground with mother. Mother has to be given face. She has to have the opportunity to ask you questions so she can get comfortable - with this guy from the US that has come to take her daughter away.
Alton
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Alton , very well said .
I have alway's said , include the Parent's in the EMF's way before you ever visit China and your Girl . This can not be left to chance . If it can't be done there , it will most likely fail ... as one sort of break's down the door and take the Daughter away . Of course there is alway's the hard way .. just look at Sly .. he came through , but did it cost him a few Euro's extra and it took his Girl to get sick to finally come through to the Mother . There are not many way's to be convincing to the Parent's , so this is a ( I wont say must ) but it should be concidered very carefully before going to meet .
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Wow...one hell of a story! I don't know what to say! It must be really confusing!
Second picture...is this the way to prevent from getting lung cancer...smoke through your ears?
Dinger,
That is an old wives tale of the way of cleaning out your ears. The smoke is supposed to pull all of the wax out and even help your hearing. It has been scientifically proven to not work though. Some people still believe it. I was interested in it the first time I heard about it and did some investigation on it. I am deaf in my right ear and thought maybe it would help.
Jim and Gina
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Well, guys.
Its 3am and my eyes are wide open. So I figured I might as well post here. I finally received an answer from Sha to the EMF letter I wrote. And yes, its the mother. And she does think me too old for her daughter and worried about my health. Which I don't really get, but that is what Sha said. Nothing I can do about the age thing. For some reason it says her reply was delivered a lot earlier than it showed up on my computer. Kind of aggravaed about that. Because I have been trying all sorts of ways to get in touch with Sha. I replied to her letter and told her how much of an idiot I was and apologized. I knew this parent thing was important. But as I had not even discussed it with Sha before meeting the mother, I thought it a little premature to tell the mother all these plans and Sha not even hearing them yet. So that is why I did not say anything. And she said she would keep talking to her mother, but how much effort she goes about this, I do not know. I asked her to please talk to me about it on cam Saturday. That is the day we always talk. Even told her I would speak to mother at that time if she would. So will just have to see how this plays out. I am trying to recoup from my blunder.
Alton (metooap) is being very helpful as he knows all about Handan and the people there. And I really appreciate it.
Arnold, I gave her Qings email address, so she has it. I do not know if she will talk with her or not. We will see. But tell Qing I appreciate it.
I think Saturday will be a very important day in this story. It will be Friday night here in the States.
Thanks to all that posted comments.
Don
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I had the age problem as well Don. They always connect age with health - just a hint of a sniff and according to Ma your heading for the box. The women themselves were ok with it but the widowed mothers were the ones to cause the problems. They imagined her daughter being left alone when I popped my cloggs. Who is to say that I would be going first!!! Hell I could live for 1 more day or 30 years who is to tell.
When I get this response I used to ask them if their daughter has a queue of other suiters waiting to take up my reigns!!!!
It did not help at all but it made me feel better before I moved on to a new date the next day!
Being serious I do find that it is only the mothers who think like that. The fathers only think that way when the mother is there.
My age has not been mentioned since I married or before it by my wife or her family and I am probably one of the oldest, in age, on this forum.
Willy
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Willy,
My family history is of people living to a nice old age. My father passed away when he was 87. My mother will be 91 in June. My favorite aunt lived to be 99. Only missed 100 by about 4 months. And most of my other uncles and aunts lived to be well into their 80's as well. If I get the chance to talk to the mother again, that is what I intend to tell her. My family has a history of living well into their 80's and 90's. I am 57, Sha is a few months shy of being 40. Yes, it is a gap. But I did not think it unsurmountable. And evidently she did not either. And you are probably right about the sniffles. I caught a cold as soon as I got to China. The weather being windy and cold. And being out in it, sightseeing did not help. So yes, I was probably sniffling a bit.
Don
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Don,
just see how it plays out saturday and the remaining days in the future. i would not
give up nor would i push to hard. if Sha loves you then she will find a way along with your help
to have mom support the two of you
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Well, guys.
Its 3am and my eyes are wide open. So I figured I might as well post here. I finally received an answer from Sha to the EMF letter I wrote. And yes, its the mother. And she does think me too old for her daughter and worried about my health. Which I don't really get, but that is what Sha said. Nothing I can do about the age thing. For some reason it says her reply was delivered a lot earlier than it showed up on my computer. Kind of aggravaed about that. Because I have been trying all sorts of ways to get in touch with Sha. I replied to her letter and told her how much of an idiot I was and apologized. I knew this parent thing was important. But as I had not even discussed it with Sha before meeting the mother, I thought it a little premature to tell the mother all these plans and Sha not even hearing them yet. So that is why I did not say anything. And she said she would keep talking to her mother, but how much effort she goes about this, I do not know. I asked her to please talk to me about it on cam Saturday. That is the day we always talk. Even told her I would speak to mother at that time if she would. So will just have to see how this plays out. I am trying to recoup from my blunder.
Alton (metooap) is being very helpful as he knows all about Handan and the people there. And I really appreciate it.
Arnold, I gave her Qings email address, so she has it. I do not know if she will talk with her or not. We will see. But tell Qing I appreciate it.
I think Saturday will be a very important day in this story. It will be Friday night here in the States.
Thanks to all that posted comments.
Don
Don
Okay - you know where you stand.
None of us here no when we are going to kick the bucket. But there is something you can do. 1) let Sha know of your family history of living a long and healthy life;
2) if you talk with Sha's mother, it is probably best to do - not thru Sha but the Agency Boss and or translator either on the phone Skyp or QQ where you have a translator who can interpret for you. If you can do this apologize to the mother. Tell her your intentions with her daughter and her granddaughter, then let her ask you any questions she may have. Answer each question clearly. If you can accomplish this, I beleive things will go smoother.
Alton
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Alton , very well said .
I have alway's said , include the Parent's in the EMF's way before you ever visit China and your Girl . This can not be left to chance . If it can't be done there , it will most likely fail ... as one sort of break's down the door and take the Daughter away . Of course there is alway's the hard way .. just look at Sly .. he came through , but did it cost him a few Euro's extra and it took his Girl to get sick to finally come through to the Mother . There are not many way's to be convincing to the Parent's , so this is a ( I wont say must ) but it should be concidered very carefully before going to meet .
Arnold
Thanks for the compliment.
I think we may be missing something here that perhaps should be shared with all.
After we have spent much time effort and often dollars to find what we think is the right person and we setup our first visit, we may be overlooking some important points that hampers our success.
There is a specific set of protocols that more often than not should be followed that will help members steer away from trouble and achieve success. Although we may not talk about them, they are unspoken - yet there.
Sometimes as men - we may take things for granted and cause ourselves challenges. What we may see as important might not be as important as we think to our wives, fiancées and ladies.
So early on we may overlook things because we just do not know, we may be simply very excited, or we may just not have thought about some things.
Like when we initially go and see our lady have we thought about:
- what are the most important thing to her?
- have we discussed these things with her?
- why are we going to see her?
- what are our expectations ?
- what are her expectations?
- what outcome do we seek?
- how can we put our best foot forward and not in our mouths?
- what should we do - must dos?
- what more often than not should we not do?
- what are some customs and or courtesies that we might not know about but will help us navigate through the maze?
- that will help us has a group achieve success in our quest to find that special someone.
There are many things we can add to the list and share with each other to initially cut out some of the frustration and increase our success rate.
I know there are no absolute rights or wrongs. Yet if we think about some of these things that maybe we take for granted, we can help each other be better prepared to succeed.
What do you think?
Alton
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Jim,
just be yourself and the person that made Sha fall for you when you
talk with mom. to much emphasis is put on mom and tends to make
you not be yourself and gives the wrong impression. mom will see the
samething Sha did and will come around. just wants the best and doesnt
know you like Sha