China Romance
General Discussion and Useful Links => Ask An Experienced Member => Topic started by: Danny on April 13, 2009, 03:46:58 am
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Today, when I was checking my personal email box, I had a very strange experience: one of the women I had thought I had been writing to through chnlove, through emf mails, sent an email to my personal email address to tell me that she hadn't written any of the letters I'd received from her, and she wanted me to know about it. What was surprising for me was that the only chnlove emf mail she'd ever received from me was the very last one I ever sent to her, when chnlove was investigating a complaint I'd made about this particular agency.
As an aside, I have to say that chnlove itself were a great deal of help and they even refunded me a pile of emf credits, so I have no complaints in relation to the way they dealt with the matter.
Anyway in response to her email, I forwarded her all of the letters she had supposedly sent me and all the letters she had supposedly received from me (none of which she had received). She was just furious about what happened because she said that she had paid a lot of money to her agency (supposedly $2,000 US) and they had just let her down so badly, and played her for a fool.
She was really happy that I was able to send her all the letters, because she was going to visit the manager of the agency tomorrow and have it out with him. I hope that she manages to get some of her money back because it seems the way she has been treated is really unfair.
I was having a think about this and I thought to myself how much of life depends on trust.
I can remember while at university reading a number of economic essays which discussed the way in which trust affected transaction costs between purchasers and suppliers in a market. It fascinated me because it showed the way in which something inward (eg acting in an ethical fashion) interacts with something external (eg commercial activities). Sometimes we don't take ideas and ethics very seriously because it is not possible to assign a monetary value to them. However in the absence of trust, commercial and other activities becomes quite impossible.
I love this little quote about trust:
"Deciding whether or not to trust a person is like deciding whether or not to climb a tree, because you might get a wonderful view from the highest branch, or you might simply get covered in sap, and for this reason many people choose to spend their time alone and indoors, where it is harder to get a splinter."
It seems to me to be easier to trust a person than an organisation. I think we respond emotionally and intellectually differently to people and families, compared with the way we respond to corporations and other artificial legal entities.
It recalls to me the situation described in "Outlaws of the Marsh". There is considerable pathos in observing the faith of many of the bandits in their emperor, because their faith seems quite misplaced. They continuously make excuses for the emperor, blaming the emperor's advisers for the corruption and injustice that persists throughout their land. The bandits appear to trust the person of the emperor implicitly, while at the same time having little or no trust at all in the feudal administrative system that placed the emperor in a position that allowed him to be so easily manipulated and misinformed.
Anyway, it's all food for thought.
I would really appreciate it if anyone can suggest a few good chnlove agencies. My confidence in chnlove is at rock bottom at the moment. I still have a pile of credits and I want to use them up on an agency that's worthwhile.
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Hey Danny, I can fully understand you. I have my doubts too sometimes. But do you think you will find your lady by just using the "right agency's"? As stated by others it could be the translator. It isn't nessecarily the agency. I hope things get sorted out. Good luck for the future.
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Hajo, thanks for the reply.
In this case I'm pretty sure it is the agency itself, rather than the translator. I've compared notes with the woman I was supposedly writing to and from what she's told me the game they were playing was systematic and something that involved the manager and the translators.
I have asked for help from the experienced members because I have a better chance of finding my lady at a good agency than at a bad agency.
I don't think that I will find my lady by just using the right agency.
I have incredibly low expectations about what is going to result from chnlove at the moment. However the fact remains I have a pile of credits and I'm going use them up in a way that suits me.
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Danny , yes there are seemingly quite a few bad eggs in the chicken house may even be because some management have over extended themselves it is as always , buyer beware for us is the obvious , always ask relevant questions and repeat if not answered after a couple of return emf's , note most if not all agency's have a cam available , so one can always ask for a live exercise at a suitable time , if they do not like the idea maybe time to question that agency through the Chnlove site , most of the women know someone with a computer and cam and many are more proficient than guys at using them .
once things are sorted do not forget to list for every bodies future reference .
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Hey Danny. That's a tough story, sorry to hear that. Which agency was it anyway? I'd guess Zhuhai or Wuhan from your info.
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Jeeze Danny that sucks. I'm more and more of the opinion that if at all possible we should use msn or emails ASAP no matter how basic the English, at least we know then we are dealing with the real person and getting real replies.
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that sucks,,let me guess, the Wuhan P509 Agency? yes? I know what they did to me, and to think when I walked into the agency they were all smiles like nothing happened, and wanted me to pay 3000, ha! I won't give them a cent! they have taken money from me many times (through false EMF's), they won't get anymore! :evil:
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Sorry to hear about this Danny... but please post the name of the agency otherwise no good will come from this.
Big Dave
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Danny , I'm sorry that this has to happen to you . That really suck's big time . Your Lady should get all her money back , what the F... did they do for her or for you ? Nothing , but cause you this shit .
I give you Qing's agency , which she sad was concidered the best , that is why she went with that one in Guangzhou , which is way south of Shanghai .
The Agency ID is " GZB " so all the Girls there start with these Letter's on their ID's . The name is " Guangzhou Xinxin Marriage Indroduction Agency "
hope this one will be of better value to you , Danny .
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Danny , after your Lady get's back what's coming to her , have her change to this Agency , I have mentioned . If you two need to use the EMF's to communicate that is ? If you can use E-Mail or MSN do so , but make Chnlove credit your Card for what you have in Credit's left , they owe you that . The least they can do for you , for the trouble .
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Danny don't feel bad these creeps are burning a lot of us. In fact the last three admirer letters I responded back are complete fiction and nothing but ploys to be long term penpals while taking your money lying to you. I just wrote to Chnlove a really harsh letter telling them that I don't appreciate them being willing accomplices to scams. Don't get me wrong I appreciate them helping me realize my dream of moving here yet they don't really care as long as they get thier cut. They need to start policing themselves and stop all the doubletalk about how much they care about thier paying male members. One recent form letter I recieved was a woman hoping that I will come visit her soon in China. Meanwhile my profile clearly states I have been living here for the last three months. It seems our paradise is becoming infected with some pretty devious underhanded types that just want a quick buck regardless who gets hurt. I will post all past and present agencies that have played games with me so others might avoid getting burned like I did. One commonality was very young hot girls responding to guys sometimes twice thier age, thier intention is to hook you with a truly hot vivacious girl when in reality it might actually just be a translator and a manager in cahoots to bilk guys. I cannot say for certain how many people are actually participating in any particular. It is just like anything else, wherever there is money to be made the grifters will show up quickly. Chnlove needs to take some active responsibilty in protecting the male members on here. I am seriously considering file criminal charges of fraud with these agencies if it is possible. Danny what I've been doing is being straight up from letter one and stating all the red flags and if it is a scam they drop off the radar right away because you are not buying it. Like Chong said write to the ones you choose as opposed to the admirer letters to prevent such a mishap. Right now I have 45 emf credits yet am relunctant to use them for fear of being played. Fortunately I just started seeing a young 23 year fluent woman who really digs me. She doesn't mind the age difference so I'm going to see where it leads. Have to say I'm really dissappointed with Chnlove's cavaliar attitude towards the guys lately. Without us they wouldn't be around at all. Granted these incidents may be isolated yet it doesn't negate the hurt it causes in the long run. Kind of hope Chnlove has people reading these posts so they can wake up and actively try to fix things. Danny don't give up just be a little more wary doing this now.
China Shark Mike :mrgreen:
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those hot young women can scam you in person too
what's with wuhan bashing? lots of guys here seem to visit there
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Not bashing anyone just giving you guys a heads up. Yes, I realize they can also do it in person what is your point?
China Mike
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I'm amazed at the amount of people being asked to relocate to China, my over riding impression was that it was for ladies that wanted the western lifestyle or were out of the market in China due to divorce or age?
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Danny , after your Lady get's back what's coming to her , have her change to this Agency , I have mentioned . If you two need to use the EMF's to communicate that is ? If you can use E-Mail or MSN do so , but make Chnlove credit your Card for what you have in Credit's left , they owe you that . The least they can do for you , for the trouble .
She's not really my lady. This will make you laugh: I didn't receive a single letter from her. Every single letter was written by the agency. She had no part in the exchange whatsoever.
I got a full refund from chnlove for all the credits I spent on this lady and got a pile of extra ones for the trouble the agency caused me.
I exchanged a few emails with her yesterday but she doesn't seem like she would have been a lot of fun anyway. In her first letter she wanted me to tell her whether I was prepared to relocate to her and I told her that it's too early to know. She seemed pretty aggressive and angry, understandable in the circumstances, but I'm thinking I don't need this sort of thing at the moment, so I think I'll just throw her back into the big blue sea, from wherever she came from *laughs*
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Sorry to hear about this Danny... but please post the name of the agency otherwise no good will come from this.
Big Dave
The agency was Aristocrat Garden Matchmaking agency (agency number P566).
I don't know for sure what happened. I mean I don't even know for sure the person who contacted me was really the girl or it could be anyone for all I know. Still everything I have written is what happened over on my side of the fence. What happened in the agency and at chnlove is a mystery to me. I don't have anything against this agency. I just wouldn't ever use it under any circumstances *laughs*
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I give you Qing's agency , which she sad was concidered the best , that is why she went with that one in Guangzhou , which is way south of Shanghai .
The Agency ID is " GZB " so all the Girls there start with these Letter's on their ID's . The name is " Guangzhou Xinxin Marriage Indroduction Agency "
hope this one will be of better value to you , Danny .
Thanks Arnold. I met someone nice from GZB. It didn't work out because she was looking for someone to relocate to Beijing. She would have to be damn special for me to do this, and she wasn't, so I just thought best to put an end to it. Chnlove is too expensive to use as a penfriend service.
But I'll keep an eye out for them when I'm looking next.
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I think i am being scammed with a agency from Zhuhai.I send emf's asking certain questions to this lady but i feel i am getting the umm harlem shuffle but i keep getting letters back saying she wants to know more about me but i hardly get anything about her and yes this is a one that has been mentioned above i believe it is the hand in hand matchmaking in Zhuhai P368 so it seems that maybe i have been taken but is there any other way of knowing for sure that i am talking to the lady.I also send a emf to her early last night telling her i had no credits left and i was going to fix in the morning but i had 1 and this morning u get a emf from her :/ now i am not sure if i want to put credits back :oops:
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Not bashing anyone just giving you guys a heads up. Yes, I realize they can also do it in person what is your point?
China Mike
your in person lady fits your pattern: "One commonality was very young hot girls responding to guys sometimes twice thier age"
i just thought that was ironic
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I'm amazed at the amount of people being asked to relocate to China, my over riding impression was that it was for ladies that wanted the western lifestyle or were out of the market in China due to divorce or age?
Well if you can have your cake, and eat it too, and eat it in your own house...
The first woman I started writing eventually told me she was wanting to start her own business, as we continued writing
it became apparent that she was wanting to be the controlling person in the relationship, and that she also preferred to
stay in China. I would be alright with relocating I think if I really loved the woman but I was looking for a more equal
partnership so I ended the correspondence.
Big Dave
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Update on Chnlove's reaction to my rather harsh letter regarding the scum that subcontracts with them. Chnlove gave me the addresses and I just need to get them translated. They seem to actually be concerned which surprised a little. Refunded 10 credits and are asking for any and all info regarding this kind of thing. Pretty sure if I am anywhere these agencies the Shark will pay a little visit and give them a piece of my mind. I'm a nice guy until you cross the line like these vermin have done. Hell, with being a victim here. I might be a westerner yet that doesn't I am a mark to be fleeced. Next post on here I'll post the agency names and as much info as possible.
China Shark Mike :mrgreen:
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Here's the agencies to stay away from: P558, P678, and these two scumbag companies each tried to work me twice with the same scam GZB272 and P518. GZB272 was so blatant I had that woman removed from Chnlove altogether. This list is over about 3 months of a 5 month period. They are major criminals nickel and diming us guys thinking hell we can afford. Stand up to this scum and contact Chnlove immediately upon surmising something is afoot. Believe me everytime they give credits back they get really irate and eventually probably boot them off of Chnlove. It is not worth it for them to chance on losing really good paying customers for a few dirtball. If you get admirer letters from these agencies proceed with caution because the are not to be trusted.
China Shark Mike :mrgreen:
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Mike I have been corresponding with a lady from GZB272, and am now wondering how bad you got scammed as the lady I am writing seems to be very upfront but also a little cautious and shy, I ask her questions, and I get answers, I asked for her address and phone number in a sly way so as not to disturb the agency, and she replies that she wanted us to get closer before she divulged this to me, but then we have only been writing to each other for a short time. Any info you can further give me on this agency I would greatly appreciate, I am keeping my eyes open and being very careful, since I have had two women I was writing to that wrote for a long time and then one went home for spring festival and I never heard from her again, and the other supposedly got transfered because of her job, gave me her e-mail addy and I wrote to this and she has completely disappeared also, so you can see why I am being a little gun-shy also, but I guess thats what I get for being a retared, revamped and relocated Dum Ol Wyoming Cowboy
:)
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Hey Michael. I've been writing a lady from P558 for a while now. Not my girl, just one I've met. One thing that struck me about her is her letters are not full of mushy, lovey stuff. She comes off as really down-to-earth and smart, always answers my questions and asks me good ones too. She knows about me and my girl so she's trying to be just a friend but man, why'd God have to make these girls so beautiful? ;) Do you think I need to be concerned?
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Hey can the moderators please do a posted sticky in one of our forums that just lists the bad agency names and numbers?
I think that would be extremely helpful and beneficial.
Big Dave
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I finally jumped back into the game and started writing a girl from GZB. I'm a bit cautious though I often heard more good things about GZB since apparently ladies from far out of town are going to this agency because of it's reputation in China. That includes this girl I'm writing to. She lives in Chengdu.
Anyway, she did send me an admiration letter. Normally I wouldn't respond if I didn't at least put them in my favourites. However I actually noticed her profile a day earlier because she recently refreshed it and I was highly considering throwing her in my favourites because not only is she attractive and had a good profile and letter but she also listed her English as good. (for the record, I don't want to pile on favourites just in case I have more than one respond then I'm faced with a dilemma of choosing. I can't afford the credits, lol)
Anyhow, I'll let the EMFs go for a bit to see if there's any spark and if so I'll definitely be pushing to move our communication to emails and MSN. If anything seems fishy I'll be sure to let you guys know. Likewise, if it turns out good, I'll be letting ya's know too. :)
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Hey can the moderators please do a posted sticky in one of our forums that just lists the bad agency names and numbers?
I think that would be extremely helpful and beneficial.
there are enough bad apples for every agency to be on the list is that helpful ?
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Jimbert is right, there are a lot individual scammers working in cahoots with dirtball translators. Hell I think my exgirl was scamming me via through the emfs. The world is a changing and the poor feel justified in ripping ordinary folk off because of thier rough upbringing. It sucks yet is something all of us on Chnlove must deal with. I might just completely stop using the emfs other than to talk to friends I already know. Too many doubts as of late. Also, I really don't need it like I did when I was in the states.
China Shark Mike :mrgreen:
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Danny, this is really outrageous. I can understand how you feel right now. I would also like to know the name of the agency.
I have had some problems myself. I found out that the lady I have been corresponding with since November was also writing long love letters to another guy. We found out by accident when I was looking for tips about my trip to Changsha to visit my lady in June. Luckily, the other guy was great and we could talk about it and even show each other the letters she had written to us. She wrote long love letters to both of us and honestly I don't understand how she had the time since we both corresponded with her every two days or so.
Anyway, when we had made it clear she was the same girl I confronted her about this and she denied it all. The interpreter (who also was the interpreter between the lady and the other guy) wrote me a message saying it must have been some kind of misunderstanding and that maybe she had made a translation error. Of course she knew very well that our lady was cheating on us. It was not until I confronted the lady with bits of the love letters she had written to the other guy that she confessed. The interpreter never said anything after that and I finally decided to end the contact.
However, I posted a short comment about this on the Chnlove forum but it was never posted by the admin. I guess they didn't want anyone else to know what had happened because it could make the look bad. Instead I got a letter form Customer Care in which they expressed their great sympathy and wanted further information, which I gave them. I finally got a few credits and another pretty nice letter from them. It wasn't their fault, they can't guarantee that every single lady out there is honest. But I was very disappointed that the interpreter helped the lady to feed me with lies like that. The agency is the Changsha Love Bridge Company. I'm not saying the agency is bull altogether, but I promised myself I would at least let other guys know about it afterwards. I told Customer Care too and they wrote they would make a note about this. I think we should try to help each other if we can. If anyone wants the name of the lady, I can give it to you. She certainly has a way with words so if she could fool me and another guy, she can certainly fool you too.
After more than four months of making great plans for the future and feeling good about myself, I'm back on square one again. The problem is that I will, deep inside, question the honesty in all the words of love in letters I receive from now on. I can't imagine what is must feel like for you, Danny.
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I'm amazed at the amount of people being asked to relocate to China, my over riding impression was that it was for ladies that wanted the western lifestyle or were out of the market in China due to divorce or age?
Ronan, I was pretty surprised about that too. The last three women I've started to write to through chnlove have all asked quite early on in the correspondence whether I was prepared to come and live in their city. I don't like to lie and cheat people, so for all three I said that if I found the woman of my dreams I would consider it, but at this point in the relationship (the first few emf mails) I wasn't in a position to make such a big commitment when I hardly knew them.
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I think i am being scammed with a agency from Zhuhai.I send emf's asking certain questions to this lady but i feel i am getting the umm harlem shuffle but i keep getting letters back saying she wants to know more about me but i hardly get anything about her and yes this is a one that has been mentioned above i believe it is the hand in hand matchmaking in Zhuhai P368 so it seems that maybe i have been taken but is there any other way of knowing for sure that i am talking to the lady.I also send a emf to her early last night telling her i had no credits left and i was going to fix in the morning but i had 1 and this morning u get a emf from her :/ now i am not sure if i want to put credits back :oops:
I used this agency for about six months, almost on a daily basis, and had no problem with it at all. I was in a position to know whether or not they were up to any funny business because I was talking directly to my then woman on the telephone at the same time. I was really happy with the service I received. They seemed to always act fairly between the two of us and when we were going through some rocky times, they did their best to patch things up.
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Open a new topic listing the agencies that are good and bad for all to see and be aware of. I'll find a spot to put it. Yeah, I'm big on lists. :D My family use to make fun of me for having so much paperwork saved. Now I make a living at it and they call me for advice. The paperwork has been reduced to computer files instead. :o
Maybe we have Shark visit the scamming agencies and break heads? :D 8-) Oh yeah, New York style. :shock:
Vince, this is what I was suggesting, but I thought you just said to start up another post. Maybe you could write the first one, and then we'll just follow along with whatever you have in mind for this.
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Add P512, Yibang Rose to the list
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Guys now we are starting to make a difference. I'm afraid this scamming thing is a lot more widespread on Chnlove than we like to believe. After I recieved the 10 credits back my admirer letters stopped almost the same time. I think there are quite of few people working this angle. At this point I don't have to use Chnlove yet am sad to see that there is so much deception even on a reputable site. Also, I'm not discounting all of any of the real sincere ones looking for thier half. The way I see it quite a few people are in on this and possibly personel from Chnlove are very chummy with the translators. The fact remains I was marked on the proverbial blacklist to lay off if any intentions of trying to play me. So somebody informed the appropiate parties to back off for good. I'm glad I know the truth and I can help bring to light some of this nonsense. The nice thing that will come out of it for me is that I don't have to worry as much or be so paranoid about deception from the majority of them here. All in all I think Chnlove is amazing yet now I'm starting to realize where there is money to be made people will lie cheat and steal and justify in the name of westerners have too much money anyway. Keep posting on this thread so we can stop other members of the brotherhood from getting burned. What I surmise is the usual mo is that girls usually 20 years junior seem to play it more than the others. It is tough to call because of the east's view on age gap differences. As soon as O think of new stuff I'll post back again. Eyes and ears open wide because some of them are just plain no good out there.
China Shark Mike :mrgreen:
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Danny, Thanks for posting the good reference info on Zhuhai P368. I just received an extremely warm response from an angel through that agency and I immediately came to this thread to see is there was any dirt on them. Not that I don'y have a pretty strong profile, but I would assume this girl has had hundreds of admirers. With your positive response to Danny's question about Zhuhai P368, I'll go ahead and see what develops. As I'm sure some of you have thought on occasion, what's this seemingly perfect China doll doing talking to me?
As for Geordie's suggestion above - that might not be a bad idea. But before I submit her ID to the masses, let me exchange a few letters with her.
Tampa Mike
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I don't want to waste credits on a scam, after reading some of the horror stories here. If I've missed post concerning a question like this, sorry for being redundant -I think I've read just about every post here, as well as on the old facebook site (I'm the Mike that was ribbed for once having 185 favorites listed :? - I kinda went dark on that site when there was a lot of animosity being expressed there, but I'm glad to be here and appreciate all of the good info shared by this brotherhood.) In reference to the letter mentioned above, that made me wonder if the gorgeous woman who wrote to me was from a scamming agency, is it possible, or bad form, to write an emf to the translator to ask if everything is legit in regard to a woman accepting new suiters? I mean I would do it tactfully, as I know their fiduciary obligation is to the woman and they want to make money on the EMF's, but would a sincere letter to the translator be a bad, or useless move? What do you guys think?
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Hi Mike , so you narrowed it down to one now ? Hehehe . I think it's not a bad idea , to get to know the Translator your dealing with personally , by either Phone or E-mail . The three Women I'm in contact with ( Wife , two Sister's ) I know two of the translator's personally , talk to one ( me and my Wife do ) on a regular bases on the phone and the other by E-mail . When they send you pictures of their Vacation's , I think their are legit people and are not trying to scam you , since I still use EMF's to both my Sister's ( Baoding /Kunming ) . I think that you should do that and build up the confidence between you and him and your Lady being real at all times .
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Danny, Thanks for posting the good reference info on Zhuhai P368. I just received an extremely warm response from an angel through that agency and I immediately came to this thread to see is there was any dirt on them. Not that I don'y have a pretty strong profile, but I would assume this girl has had hundreds of admirers. With your positive response to Danny's question about Zhuhai P368, I'll go ahead and see what develops. As I'm sure some of you have thought on occasion, what's this seemingly perfect China doll doing talking to me?
Mike, it's difficult to tell isn't it? Some of the most gorgeous girls seem to refresh their profiles just constantly. You just have to wonder what's going on there. Maybe you'll get lucky!
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Arnold, I sent a letter, and added a P.S. to the translator saying thanks for the assistance and asking if there was anything I could do to make my letters more easily translated (I tend to ramble sometimes.) I also asked for any advice on how I could better respond to the woman I want to meet. I don't expect to get any such advice, and really don;t need it that much. I just wanted to open a line of communication with the person who is going to be between this gal and I for a while.
Danny, as for maybe getting lucky with her, if this pans out, that would be an understatement. She has the qualities I am looking, and then some. That's what makes me suspicious. The relationship gods have crapped on me all my life. Why would they suddenly let me win the lottery? :D
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Geordie ... Thought about your "Cupid Note" test before. However, even if a Brotha did send a "CN", the translator/agency may reply back with a form letter without the lady knowing ... then you may think that your lady is "cheating" on you. So, it solves nothing !!! Ronan has the best idea. We should have a published list of our respective ladies with their Profile # ... but only with the last 4-digits ... i.e. P**8568. Then if any two Brothas have the identical last 4-digits, they can chat privately to see if the first two numbers match.
Mike Moore ... Maybe the lady thinks by kissing your frog pic, you'll turn into a "Prince" :mrgreen: Seriously, Mike ... you have to use all the lessons learnt from Brothas on these forums, to determine if that lady is legit.
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I think it's great we can share information like this, maybe we can prevent some of us from being cheated on or fooled. It certainly can't hurt. Maybe we should even have a special part of the forum dedicated to these issues...? The scam and cheat part.
When I caught my lady cheating (it's OK if she has contact with several men in the beginning, but not after we have decided to meet and live in the same apartment together for several weeks) she was obviously shocked. She had absolutely no idea that we men have the opportunity to communcate like this. I told her about it and exaggerated a bit when I said that we men talk to each other to help out and that we would always find out about a cheater sooner or later. I don't think she will make the same mistake again - or maybe she's just a hopeless and immature type who will never learn.
Anyway, the suggestion to publish the last four digits is a great idea! We are all putting a lot of time, money and emotion into our search, all we can do to minimize the risk of being cheated on or fooled, is worth doing. Just my two cents...
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Geordie ... Partially true. The translator will know if a relationship is moving along or not. In the meantime, they have to consider all potential male candidates; thus, the "Form Letters" at the beginning. As some guys have mentioned, their translator wrote tens of letters BEFORE their lady got notification that he was interested in her. For example, the agency will pick the 5 best men out of 10 and present them to the lady to choose. In another case, the lady didn't know the man existed till he arrived in China ( after an exchange of 60 EMFs ). Also if the lady is corresponding through private email and no longer using the agency's EMFs, they may use her profile to send out "Admirer Letters". The scam agencies won't hesitate to write you 10 EMFs and then, all of a sudden, the lady's not interested. It's early in the relationship so you won't be heartbroken, but meanwhile, they soaked you for $ 100. Multiply that by how many men ???
Bear in mind that I'm painting a worst case scenario here :evil: in reply to this particular thread. There are good honest agencies out there.
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It sounds like we need to add a category to the forums and make a separate topic for each agency as problems come to light.
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Hell, we could open up a whole new forum discussing these lowlifes.
China Shark Mike :mrgreen:
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Chong, Funny you mention the frog pic, because I sent it to her today, among other pics, asking if her kiss could turn me, this smiling frog, into her Prince Charming. Yeah, I'm pretty corny. I have to tell the group here that I received another beautiful letter earlier today from her, including some photos of her painting some absolutely beautiful drawings. She states she will only correspond with me and is serious about this contact and certainly not a fake. I am feeling like I hit the lottery here. Even my 29 year old daughter agrees that this woman is stunningly beautiful inside and out.
Also, Chong, this contact here is a result of my keeping my profile closed, as you suggested, and sending cupid notes to only three top-flight women. I got responses from all three, but only have eyes for this one. In for a penny, in for a pound with this one only. I'll take it as slow as I can, but I am feeling pretty good here for the first time in quite a while.
Tampa Mike
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Arnold, concerning that note I sent to the translator, here's the response I got:
"It is my honor to be the translator for you and Miss X, my name is Tim, I am working in hand in hand agency of Zhuhai, do not worry about your writing style, I enjoy it :-) and please just write whatever you want to tell her, I am sure you will be together with her soon! Wish you good luck!"
I'm going to try to develop a good relationship with this guy and eventually get his impression of my lady. After all, if in the unlucky event this angel is the devil in disguise, he could steer me to a genuine woman and still rake in big bucks on emfs without missing a beat. Win-Win. Hey, maybe that could be my Chinese name - win-win. Unless it means dogshit in Chinese or something.
Tampa Mike
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Maybe it means "strong green swimmer with warts"? LOL j/k :D
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CS Mike--
I am still a little confused at the type of scam P558 is running, but my gut feeling is they are running a scam. I've noticed most of my admirer letters coming from this agency lately (9 out of 10). Would it be more beneficial if we spotlighted the golden apples instead of the bad? :ugeek:
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I've been talking to a lady from p558 for a while. She's not my girl, I've told her I'm serious about someone else but I still send a message once in a while and she has not once tried to get me to write her more or keep writing her. She's been very open and honest with me and encourages me when I have doubts about my lady. Maybe she's the only real one from p558?
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Jay W the scam is to send out form letters and just plain fake letters to illicit guys to write back therefore generating money from the emfs. It is a tough one to call who is real and who is a ringer or a fake. Best way I have of eliminating the scum is by putting out in the open in the first or second letter. Let her and the translator know that if if anything is not on the up and up you will be contacting customer service as well the authorities in reguards to fraud. Granted if she is real you might lose her due to the mistrust factor. If it is a scam they immediately drop off the radar when you suggest that you know what the game is and are not willing to play along. Once they are found out you are not worth thier time anymore. Set up criteria for them, ask for real recent pictures, push for webcam even if English is shaky, make them work for your emfs, if it is bogus it will not be worth the time invested for them. Try to stay away from the smoking hotties because a large part of these profiles are total ringers and not actually seeking a man. Could be two scenarios, first one is a two person operation translator and fake profile sending generic letters to guys and splitting the emfs fees. Second could be the agency itself encouraging the translators to send out mass form letters to see if can generate additional revenue, many times the women are not even aware of being used in this scam. P558 is a really bad agency I'm sad to tell you. Some of the most blatant underhanded stuff I dealt was through that agency, maybe I was just unlucky but I think not. Just try to be aware of everything going on around you and do not take it for granted that all Chinese people are honest. Buyer beware and make sure to check under the hood to make sure they are not trying to sell you a lemon. Just my thoughts.
China Shark Mike :mrgreen:
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Add P512, Yibang Rose to the list
Hey Nick what happened with this agency? I just started writing to a woman from this agency so I am very concerned now...
What do you guys think about using the flowers and photographs gift to help prevent getting scammed? If the woman you are writing gets the flowers and is photographed with them at least you know you are talking to a real woman and she then has to be aware of your existance right? I know this would not help if the woman and the translator are working a scam together but it is a start.
You know it is funny... I have started writing to two different women now and both times I could tell when the translater stopped helping. And both times it was like it suddenly became a chore for them to write their own letters. That was one of the main reasons I stopped writing them. If it is a chore to write to me after only a couple of weeks imagine what it would be like after a year?
So hopefully I will be more lucky with number three... but now it turns out Nick has had some kind of trouble with that agency which does not bode well... :roll: :cry: :evil:
Big Dave
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Chnlove is real but I am a bit suspicious about their business practices. I always wonder when 90 percent of the women I send cupids or 1st letters to actually answer and want to write to me. I am not handsome and just average. On other websites I get far less response (10 percent).
As a rule, I always ask for the lady's personal e-mail and if she doesn't correspond at all via her e-mail and insists on using Chnlove, I suspect it is a money grab by the local agency.
Some of you may think I am very cynical but I have a long experience dealing with agencies albeit not Chinese ones. Indeed you may meet an honest good woman but I suspect the type of women who are attracted to agencies are mostly opportunists. It's up to you to use your head and not emotions to determine if you are being played or not.
IMO, the best way to meet a lady overseas is to be introduced by a friend or stay there long enough to network and know someone. Of course most of us cannot do that so we are at the mercy of the Internet businesses.
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This is getting a bit concerning. Maybe I have been naive but as a newbie I did a lot of reading at the Chnlove forum and people there always told the newbies that almost all women were sincere, saying "this is the real thing!" and stuff like that. There were even discussions about how much more sincere Chinese ladies are compared to Western women...! When my lady cheated on me and I found out, I wrote a short thing about it on the forum. But it was never posted. I didn't even mention what had happened in detail but wrote I would write more when I knew more. Still the admin refused to post it. How many of those have been written by different guys over the years and then being denied to post it on the forum? I didn't criticize Chnlove or anything like that.
I wish this board would've existed a few months ago, I think it could have saved a lot of time, money and frustration for many of us.
I just checked and I've received some admirer letters from girls from P558 too. I guess I will play it safe and stay away from them altogether.
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We may not need to add P512 to the list after all. I think I may have been wrong. I'll give more info when I have more time.
David, I may be wrong about the agency. I will let you know what I find.
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How bad is all this...
we must have a lot of respect for them, be careful not to hurt their feelings or their delicate hearts, different culture bla bla bla...but nobody cares a s**t how we feel when we discover that the sweet words are just the translator´s,( this is what really infuriates me most), that we are expected to pay an enormous amount of money for the girl to their parents, a wedding ring worth of an Audi, a wedding for 200 people and sustain the family in China on a monthly basis...
I am quite trapped for a girl I am writing to who says she is studying in France, now please is anybody else contacting her? Better know early than late for sure...Best wishes for you all and thanks for this site,
MiguelfromSpain
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Miguel - my sentiments exactly! If I wanted to get the runaround I can do that comfortably from my hometown. But still, there are enough success stories among the brethren here to keep the hope alive. Navigating our way from point A to B is the tough part. One would think that if your lady is in France she must have some language ability and technical prowess. You can't wean her away from the EMF service?
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Not sure if this is worth a thread of its own, but at least it's a good question: Given all the talk of scams recently, I would be curious to know the ages of the suspect women who have been busted by our team. It it mostly young women (under 32) that have been confirmed as scams? With the stories we have all heard about women with kids, age 35+, getting a real bad shake in China as far as marriage prospects, I'm curious about the scam rate on the "senior" circuit for women.
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Geordie ... Partially true. The translator will know if a relationship is moving along or not. In the meantime, they have to consider all potential male candidates; thus, the "Form Letters" at the beginning. As some guys have mentioned, their translator wrote tens of letters BEFORE their lady got notification that he was interested in her. For example, the agency will pick the 5 best men out of 10 and present them to the lady to choose. In another case, the lady didn't know the man existed till he arrived in China ( after an exchange of 60 EMFs ). Also if the lady is corresponding through private email and no longer using the agency's EMFs, they may use her profile to send out "Admirer Letters". The scam agencies won't hesitate to write you 10 EMFs and then, all of a sudden, the lady's not interested. It's early in the relationship so you won't be heartbroken, but meanwhile, they soaked you for $ 100. Multiply that by how many men ???
Bear in mind that I'm painting a worst case scenario here :evil: in reply to this particular thread. There are good honest agencies out there.
Hi - you mentioned someone communicated in 60 EMFs and the lady did not know about the man until he arrived? That's downright scary! It's making me paranoid about the ladies I don't have direct communication with >_< Is this 60 EMF case written anywhere that I can read about it? I don't even know what I would do if it were me... O_O
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cHi ... the story's in the Facebook archives. Basically, the translator wrote all the letters. When the gentleman got to the agency, he didn't get along with the lady and then the agency tried to set him up with others. I give the guy credit for not blowing his fuse but if it was me ... :evil:
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OH - is that the one where the girl's mom was ill?
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Here are three scumbags not to be trusted:
GZB272380 Jing Pei
P558388 Kelly Wu
P518512 Yi Jun Cao
These were all found out in the last month. Are not real and if are total scammers. As soon as I mentioned red flags they lost all interest. After Chnlove refunded credits all of my 2-3 admirer letters that I usually recieved a day stopped completely. I am now convinced that people within Chnlove are directly involved and hence the reason being blacklisted. It's all good because I am not responding to admirer letters anymore even if they seem legitimate. I am not leaving myself open anymore from this type of fraudulent behavior. It isn't too bad because I live here yet want to help the others avoid the pitfalls I have encountered.
China Shark Mike :mrgreen:
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Oh no , not Jing Pei ? My favored Girl , how could you ? Bitch !!!
Thanks Michael for the inside's . All our look-out's are saving many guy's here in the brotherhood big buck's . Not that it save me any now , but all of you digging up all those Scambag's , deserve to be recognized for what their doing , Great Job !
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Hi all,
Hey ChinaShark terrific job!!! Perhaps they will care more if cash starts to stop coming in. But also, there will always be a newbie...I think sharing this information is the best way to protect ourselves. I thank God that I found this site. Lately I am focusing in twenty-late- thirty-something divorced girls. I am not interested in virgos worth a Mercedes :mrgreen: . This way I have had a couple of nice, well-thought, long responses. I am also underrating my earnings to avoid millionaire seekers. It breaks my heart when I read the forums on chnlove, there are so many good people there being clearly scammed. I hope all of them find this forum. and yes, let´s make a "black list". We are being ripped off our money and what is worst, our deepest hopes, so it is just right to defend ourselves. God bless you
MiguelfromSpain
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One more thing to add before I forget. Even if you get the direct email doesn't necessarily mean she or they are on the up and up. Jing was so clever she gave it up right away thinking that would hook me thinking it was legit. First thing I did was send a direct response and low and behold excuses starting coming in after a lame half ass attempt at a real email stating I'm on a business trip in Beijing and hardly have access to a computer but maybe when I get back to Shenzhen I could. She was laying groundwork in case she was overloaded with to many letters to respond back to. I will dig back through my old emfs when I first started this 6 months ago and furnish you guys with more people to stay away from. We are hurting these lowlifes now. The more info we share on this thread the less chance these parasites have of burning newbies just getting thier feet wet. After 6 months in this thing I've become obssessed and am finally starting to learn the sad truth about a lot of the treachery that goes on in the name of the almighty dollar. I do not really care so much about the money as being betrayed and decieved by woman pretending to care about me. It is the principle that these dirtballs lack, complete disreguard for human dignity. Keep it up guys and we'll take out the majority of the trash for good. They want to play games yet we got game also. Feels good turning the tables on scum like this. Righteous indignation will stomp a mudhole in these varmits.
China Shark Mike :mrgreen:
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Here's three more names to the garbage heap. Some of these date back 5 months yet they are all in the game or just plain scamming for fees. There were a few others yet don't feel right until completely sure. These ones are lifetime penpals nothing more.
Elaine Yu P518474 has been on Chnlove for 4 and a half years, real scum this one, had to block her because she would send paragraph emfs telling me how busy she was and not even send pix promised, greedy lowlife.
Ping Wang GZB678057 this one was a major player prior to me getting her thrown off Chnlove altogether. Goes into telling me that she is getting back together with her husband for the sake of her son yet does not pull her profile from Chnlove. Well I helped her get herself removed because if she wasn't looking why is she on the site in the first place.
May Yang P678057 real game player and not for real. Threw up some red flags and called her to the carpet so she decides we aren't right for one another. Pretty sure she was working quite a few guys because letter 2 or 3 she states maybe we not be good face to face. Hedging her bets or anticipating the not interested angle early on in the game. No good through and through.
Take these for what you will but don't discount the facts that I've presented. I'm done being upset with these agencies and thier lowlife tactics. It is now up to us to stop them dead in thier tracks.
China Shark Mike :mrgreen:
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I do not really care so much about the money as being betrayed and decieved by woman pretending to care about me. It is the principle that these dirtballs lack, complete disreguard for human dignity. Keep it up guys and we'll take out the majority of the trash for good. They want to play games yet we got game also. Feels good turning the tables on scum like this. Righteous indignation will stomp a mudhole in these varmits.
China Shark Mike :mrgreen:
This is so true. I don't really care about the money either (although I am far, far from rich), it's the feeling of being played with that hurts. They don't care about our feelings. Problem is, some of the guys here have apparently suffered severely from scam bitches. How can you ever trust an online woman again? How can you ever trust that her words of love are true? Is there anything easier than to write "I love you" sitting in front of a computer? I have just started to communcate with another woman and, right or wrong, I brought up the honesty part right away. It didn't scare her away, luckily, but even if it had I don't see any other way than to address the issue very early. On the other hand I did that with Wen Ping too and that didn't help much...Maybe we should have a new saying: "Honest guys finish last"...
It's a blessing this board exists now and that we have the opportunity to help out and encourage each other. I will not post anything on the Chnlove forum again, it's pointless. Let's stick to this board instead.
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My letter toChnlove customer service ( I am still waiting for the response their Intendance Dept.):
In many ways the service you provide through your website is far superior to similar matching websites. I hope that through your service I will fulfill my goal of finding a wife. However, if I do not receive confirmation from you today that I have indeed been corresponding to the woman in profile P368__, I demand a refund for the 5 credits wasted in writing to the translator/agency at #P368 Hand in Hand Matchmaking Agency in Zhuhai. In the future, when attempting to open a dialog with a woman through your service, I will understand that I am speaking to a translator, and will compose my letters accordingly. I will state my case to the translator and, after that initial EMF, or two (which should be free), I will require confirmation that I have been deemed worthy to write to the woman with whom I hope to correspond. I will expect that, upon notification from the translator that I may contact the woman in question. I can receive her personal contact information and be free to open my heart and, through those letters, develop a lasting bond with the woman. That's how this should work. Less fear that a man is being scammed.
To understand that I had poured my heart out to a male translator is humiliating!!! You must understand that many, if not most, of the men who use your service have experienced bad relationships. Taking the step to find a wife in this way requires a level of trust and openness that is uncomfortable for many men. But we are willing to open ourselves to the potential rewards or losses. The cost of EMF credits is minor, when compared to the cost of baring one?s soul to a stranger. Your associated agencies appear unconcerned with the emotional toll they take from your male customers.
I understand that a woman receives many letters from admirers when they list their profile. I understand that their lives are busy with work and family-related duties. I understand that an agency may act in her best interest to weed out unsuitable men, so that the woman is not forced to spend countless hours sifting through letters from potential candidates.
That being said, you should clarify the situation on your website. Here's how it should work: State that the Cupid note is delivered to the agency (not the lady). The agency can then request further information from the man, to gauge his suitability to correspond with the woman. If found suitable they should notify Chnlove, who should then contact the lady to verify that she is ready to correspond with the man. The man should then be notified that he may begin the EMF process with his chosen woman. The woman?s personal information should be provided, to increase the man?s comfort level. The initial correspondences to translators/agencies should be free, as the Cupid Notes are now.
You should be trusted to balance the emotional cost with the financial cost paid by gentlemen who use the service.
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Shark, I envy your ability to be on the ground in China and meet women through daily interaction, rather than through the internet. I hope to be able to spend significant time there in the future, if some business dealings pan out. Small chance, but I'm fighting to succeed. Everyone who is searching here knows there is a woman for him in China. The tricky part is finding her without wasting an inordinate amount of time, money and heartache in the process.
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How bad is all this...
we must have a lot of respect for them, be careful not to hurt their feelings or their delicate hearts, different culture bla bla bla...but nobody cares a s**t how we feel when we discover that the sweet words are just the translator´s,( this is what really infuriates me most), that we are expected to pay an enormous amount of money for the girl to their parents, a wedding ring worth of an Audi, a wedding for 200 people and sustain the family in China on a monthly basis...
I am quite trapped for a girl I am writing to who says she is studying in France, now please is anybody else contacting her? Better know early than late for sure...Best wishes for you all and thanks for this site,
MiguelfromSpain
Miguel, I know what you're saying.
After all the scams I've experienced and other guys have experienced, I just feel really cold about chnlove.
I have been writing to someone who seems like a good person. But my heart has gone really cold towards her.
In my head I know it's not her fault that some of the agencies are complete bastards, but it's hard to change what you feel, that you don't trust the letters you receive.
Eventually I will know one way or the other that she's either there or not. For example, one day she will offer me her mobile phone number, or a direct email address.
I haven't asked for this because to be frank, asking for it suggests that I want to take the relationship further, and at the moment, I'm happy to let it drift along.
I keep wanting to tell her to find someone else, but she tells me I matter to her. Before I was scammed, I would have found this touching, but now, I just wonder whether it's for real.
I've tried to treat her as well as I can, but it's hard to get excited about a relationship when you're not really sure one way or the other if you're writing to an angel, or some hairy backed fellow working at the agency *laughs*
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Danny, I think if you read the recent posts here, you might have a different take on things -
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=106&start=10
We have all fallen into a trap of doubt here lately. Read the letter I received today, especially her paragraph concerning my needing to erase doubts. There is hope here, Bro!
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Well guys ...
1) If you don't participate, you'll never know if there was an opportunity or not.
2) It's a numbers process to weed out the dishonest to find a honest lady.
3) Ironic that most of the dishonest lady's profiles are no longer on ChnLove since we out them in public.
4) Because of this forum, eventually, with the amount of Brothas in China ... there'll be many personal referrals to finding a lady for others. i.e. friends or family members of our ladies.
and .......
5) There's a business opportunity for us Brothas and our Chinese wives to establish a Marriage Agency in China. Imagine this scenario ... we have a Central Office and then each Brotha & Sista have their own local office in their respective cities. With our experience, knowledge and honesty .... many foreign men & local Chinese women will trust us to match-make !!!!!!
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No !!! We have no business interfering with their agency. They wouldn't want us to see their inside secrets anyways.
I was thinking more of a "FUTURE" business opportunity for us guys who want to live in China.
To REALLY help out foreign men & local Chinese women, we have to do it properly OURSELVES. The lady in Shenyang that I visited find her agency through a newspaper ad. She even suggested starting an agency because of the potential. With the amount of computer knowledge among us Brothas, it wouldn't be difficult to start an internet match-making business in China. We have to have a scenario where our ladies deal with the local women ( ie. interviews, EMF translators, photo shoots, English lessons etc etc ...) and us guys deal with the foreign men ( i.e. organizing trips, gifts, visas, marriage documents etc etc ... )
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can i invest in this new china match making company
anyways was the bad apple GZB all of them or just the one i got a cupid note from a GZB271
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Chong, I spent a good bit of time yesterday thinking about this very thing. Taking all the gripes and reasons guys distrust the Chnlove process, how could we address those concerns and create an improvement on the Chnlove model - improved from a trust standpoint. I posted a letter that I sent to Chnlove customer care that had some good and some whacked ideas in this regard, but I realized that, while if it was some of us on the China end making sure to the best of our ability that the women do not abuse trust, as much diligence should be made of the men that are allowed to make connections. I'm sure some, but not all, of the dying lines of communication (her response letters get shorter) we read about here are due to the fact that the woman begins to doubt the relationship will actually progress from the internet communication stage. Some of these women have been online for years and spent many hours on failed meetings. Every new contact goes through the same online acquaintanceship process, but ends with no payoff - I'd get worn out too! If we could shore up the China end, and do some due diligence on the western end, I think we'd have a thriving biz. Just my thoughts.
Vince, Given the note I got from my translator today, and the care I received from the agency, I think they would be more open to the idea than you might imagine. I think there are many legitimate agencies that wish they could get out from under the cloud of suspician, and this might allow them to prove their worth.
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Mike
each time i read a post of yours about the hand in hand agency there i feel a little better that maybe i am not getting messed with
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I'd be interested in being a part of this future opportunity when the time comes - sounds like a great idea. The ladies understand things from their perspective, and the guys understand things from our perspective - now THAT'S teamwork ^_^
I had a quick question - you guys have mentioned that you are sending letters with a note to the translator. Are you just making a section out of your 6000 char limit for the translator? Or is there a feature to add a note that I am missing? I'd like to get more personable with one of my lady's translators to help smooth the process. After 9-10 great EMFs, the lady has become a bit more shy (we've sent about 35 EMFs so far, 17 from her to me, 18 from me to her) as we get to more personal topics, so I wanted to build the relationship with the translator, to help further along and bridge the connection with the lady.
Annnnnnnnd.. speaking of "personal referrals" my extremely attractive lady has a friend ~ 34 years old, looking for a western man. She's asked if anybody might be interested. I'll post a picture (with her permission of course) or if it's more personable, if you're interested you guys can email me and I can email you a picture and information. I'll post up my email addy once I get more information about the lady. The lady is from Beijing, and I don't know much about her yet - english knowledge, etc. My lady from Beijing is the one I mentioned in my earlier post with excellent english skills.
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No !!! We have no business interfering with their agency. They wouldn't want us to see their inside secrets anyways.
I was thinking more of a "FUTURE" business opportunity for us guys who want to live in China.
To REALLY help out foreign men & local Chinese women, we have to do it properly OURSELVES. The lady in Shenyang that I visited find her agency through a newspaper ad. She even suggested starting an agency because of the potential. With the amount of computer knowledge among us Brothas, it wouldn't be difficult to start an internet match-making business in China. We have to have a scenario where our ladies deal with the local women ( ie. interviews, EMF translators, photo shoots, English lessons etc etc ...) and us guys deal with the foreign men ( i.e. organizing trips, gifts, visas, marriage documents etc etc ... )
This is actually a really great idea. It takes a lot to realize it (as far as I know it is a bit tricky to start a company in China) but it's certainly a great business idea. I think it has great potential. We all have experience with different levels of scam and cheating, that alone gives us important knowledge about what honest men and women want. Think about how much we could develop the service Chnlove provides by tightening loop holes and finding ways to determine that all the personnel are there to help, not scam people.
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Bruce, Glad I could help, instead of beat the drum of doom like I have for a couple of days. Stories of success and trust should be prominent here.
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I also have a beef with the Aristocrat Garden Marketing. Although it worked out for me. I believe it was only because I threatened them before finally coming over to see the lady whom I thought i was writing to. I starting writing to her in September of 08. I did not get a lot of positive response so I quit. A couple of weeks later I get a letter from her from her asking where I have been. Long story short. We began writing back and forth. She said her english was bad needed to keep EMF, wasnt convenient to speak on the phone at least once. Sent me beautiful letters including love poems. I was a bit suspicious but decided to come and see her. She said she was happy. Now before I go I tell the translator that I had had dinner with some of the "Peoples congress reps", which was true. I told her the lady had better be real or I would turn them in. I tell the rest of the story in my blog but later on my fiancee tells me she only received a very few letters never responded in the way I showed her and only met me because the agency almost demanded she do it. Her picture was photoshopped like crazy. Now after all of that i will tell you that we sincerely have fallen in love with each other and are engaged to be married. She is the love of my life as I am to her. I wouldnt trade her for anyone or anything in this world. I have very mixed feelings for the agency. First I hate them for what they were doing BUT they did introduce me to this wonderful woman. She feels the same way. The end result. I told her I would be damned if I will pay them our marriage fee. I even went thru them and told her I am sorry that we did not click. I would try someone else. As of today they still have her profile up but it has not been refreshed. She has not received any more letters from anyone. Of course now she and I talk every morning and evening on QQ. Her english is still not good, but she uses the Besta and I use LEC software. We have pretty in depth conversations like this. I have already hired an attorney to start the Visa process and I am going in August to be married and live there for a while. Bottom Line I would say to stay away from this Agency.
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I for one would be more than help any and all brothers coming here to live or just to visit. Great idea Chong and very plausible in the not too distant near future. If you guys need any help I would eagerly do what I can from the China side. This type of teamwork and determination is what will make Chnlove a better place, a place that we can trust like we did before all of the skeletons came out of the closet. If we had had direct input in interviewing, professional shots, English lessons etc. we could push out all the dishonest scammers and make legitimate attempts at real relationships not based on revenue but on mutual compatibility with two individuals. I think after all these new threads we are shutting the majority of the scum down hopefully for good. Just my thoughts.
China Shark Mike :mrgreen:
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Jim, what's the LEC software? I searched the board but couldn't find a reference.
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Sounds like you got really lucky Jim! And I am happy to hear that you will be in China and gettng married in August!
Big Dave
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I really wonder if all those agencies have all our info's because the 4 yes 4 admirers letters to me have all been off the favourites list (i cannot spell) its like they see you writing to only one and then they look at your list and send the girls list on there one by one to you to relly SCREW your mind up????? i thiink they do not care about the women its just out to EMPTY all our wallets.OK i venyed enough with this frustration have good day
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I really wonder if all those agencies have all our info's because the 4 yes 4 admirers letters to me have all been off the favourites list (i cannot spell) its like they see you writing to only one and then they look at your list and send the girls list on there one by one to you to relly SCREW your mind up????? i thiink they do not care about the women its just out to EMPTY all our wallets.OK i venyed enough with this frustration have good day
They do that Bruce. If you add a name to your favorites and your profile's not hidden, they introduce you to the ladies or the ladies to you...whatever. I read that in the help section somewhere.
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Well, I have the perfect solution :idea: ...hey China Shark, what about creating your own dating company? :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: You are in the market, just bring the apples to us...Sure I would pay my euros more gladly to you than to any scammer...aah and you could do some personal pre-selection also ;) ...mmm I´m starting to like the idea myself.
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Funny thing Miguel is I'm starting to get overwhelmed by all the female attention here. Posted a classified personal ad on Shenzhenparty.com with no picture and am getting all kinds of responses. Thinking about just dating women for a little while before getting back into a committed relationship. It is so different from back home where the women assume we should be honored just to speak to them. Women over here know what it is to act like a lady. I think setting up a dating/marraige broker service could a godscend to guys like us. We could be the only legit one here in Asia or the world. The number one priority could be matching people first then making the money, not the other way around.
China Shark Mike :mrgreen:
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i am starting to stay away from a lady when i see this at the bottom you see it on one profile but to see it on another from a different agency
"I love you not because who you are but because who I am when I am with you"
see it on one site or profile but to see it on many and different agency's
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:twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
How about this for agency screw ups write a letter and the translator misses the meaning of what you said and ends up saying that we were breaking up and it wasn't even close to what i types now i am fighting with chn and the agency
so i send another letter at 5:55 am this morning which is in time for her to get and reply it sits there as U for 6 hours and then it goes to P for now 6 more hours saying it waiting to be delievered asap what crap this is really getting to me
I asked for all the Credits i used to start this and talk with her for all this agrivation everything from when we first started talking i wonder what the phone lines will be like with customer care and the agency this am
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i am starting to stay away from a lady when i see this at the bottom you see it on one profile but to see it on another from a different agency
"I love you not because who you are but because who I am when I am with you"
see it on one site or profile but to see it on many and different agency's
Bruce - I don't know if anyone addressed this, I didn't see that it had been.. that line is part of a very famous poem called "Love". This poem is very commonly read at weddings and romantic ceremonies. It was written by "Roy Croft" and unfortunately, dig as I might, information on him is very limited, even in the information age :( The "Love" poem seems to be his only known work, and it's very popular among hopeless romantics, etc.
I've pasted the poem here:
I love you,
Not only for what you are,
But for what I am
When I am with you.
I love you,
Not only for what
You have made of yourself,
But for what
You are making of me.
I love you
For the part of me
That you bring out;
I love you
For putting your hand
Into my heaped-up heart
And passing over
All the foolish, weak things
That you can?t help
Dimly seeing there,
And for drawing out
Into the light
All the beautiful belongings
That no one else had looked
Quite far enough to find.
I love you because you
Are helping me to make
Of the lumber of my life
Not a tavern
But a temple;
Out of the works
Of my every day
Not a reproach
But a song.
I love you
Because you have done
More than any creed
Could have done
To make me good
And more than any fate
Could have done
To make me happy.
You have done it
Without a touch,
Without a word,
Without a sign.
You have done it
By being yourself.
Perhaps that is what
Being a friend means,
After all.
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sorry no body has said anything about it
Thank you
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i didn't know where to put this so i guess this is a good as place as any i do not believe it
Freom customer Care
We welcome our gentlemen clients to rate and comment the work of the local agencies. For those agencies who are reported for not doing a satisfactory job, we will carry out further investigation and find out the situation at the soonest. We are very grateful that you could share your thoughts and comments with us.
Meanwhile, we earnestly hope that you could be with us as a supervisor, valuator and impeller of the agencies' quality service in Chnlove.
We believe your involvement and support is always the wealth that nothing can compare with, and your feedback will be the impetus to push Chnlove's and the agencies' services to a higher level. :-)
he he i should ask how much they pay
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beat you to it I checked and this is "china speak" for I hope you will rate the service. So they pay nothing.
I am glad to see someone else complained as well and got the same reply - it is a masterpiece and I wonder how long it took them to come up with that one
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Hans
I also suspect that Changsha Love Bridge Company is just about making money. I traveled to Changsha in 2008. The Agency owner claim that he needed money to give to the lady's parents to prove sincerity. I can provide the lady's info.
Fred
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Well i caught a agency being liars to me and totally just got back all 24 credits used to talk with her and received from her
Her profile on chnlove was nice but i found her on another site and what a difference from what they were showing i also believe it was a total setup by the agency.this was in P356 agency the lady is P356076
also in another agency i found this lady P2031699 where she actually sent me 2 yes 2 cupid notes but i like this lady even though she was not what was in the profiles her pictures that is.I think they must really hire a bunch of photoshop people to do work like this.
I now contact this lady in private with no contact from chnlove and i will be going to china next summer after i finish a few things here.
so those agencys might be bad ones be carefull
Uncle Bruce
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Good work Bruce exposing these lowlifes.
China Shark Mike
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I was wondering whether or not it is possible to make the list of doggy/dishonest agencies and girls a searchable format, so members can type agency/girl profile number in for a quick checkout. As the list of both girls and agencies grows, it may become tedious to check a suspect against our list in the future. Just an idea!
Torano
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Just joined this particular site. My lady and I stopped going through chnlove emf service some time ago and speak every day on telephone for an hour or so. We also send info by cell phone text. A fellow subscriber tells me that he has received a admirers note from my lady and he has sent her an EMF in reply. She tells me she has not sent the admirers note nor received a reply.
I have asked him to tell me is he receives a 'reply' from her. She tells me she has not written to anyone since I came on the scene
I am aware that my first few letters sent to my lady were not received or answered by her as the letters were roughly the same as I received from 'other prospects' and when I wrote and EMF about this the style of the letters started to change and it seems that this was the first she actually received.
The agency was P368 Hand In Hand
I will be in Zhuhai at end of June and will be returning to UK to London in August. If you want me to check anyone out at the actual agency let me know. I will have the daytime free for 6 weeks whilst my lady is working.
Willy
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Danny, sorry to hear the lady's adventure and your involvement.
With all the photos and letters in the agency’s computer system it is very tempting to pull this scam and takes a person with strong morals not to attempt it, $10 roundtrip for a couple minutes work.
Understand the setup, ChnLove is the head of the beast that pulls together independent agencies all over China and standardize the operation. Its like an big family scattered all over hells half acre, you may have control over them, but never will you be able to control them to the full hundred percent. ChnLove tries and I give them credit for their trying. Any shenanigans pulled is not ChnLove it is the individual agency all of whom are independent operators. Sure they can be kicked out the ChnLove setup, back were they were before joining, still have the business.
The fees (50-60,000 Yuan) (US$2,000) they are charged and you thought it was all free for the ladies heh?
Another interesting item, no action on the account for weeks, buy some credits showing credits in the account and all of a sudden you get contact EMFs. Smells sour. Get contact EMF from a lady and all of a sudden more contact EMF out the same agency appear. What happen were they asleep before the first lady send her EMF? Any thinking person’s mind now goes further, is the first EMF legit? It is like with everything now in the 21st century capitalist run world, rip-offs are so brazen they know they are the ones having their hands on the controls.
Keep your eye on the ball, it is your money.
DrFransBRoosPHD
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Guys I ran across another scamming agency. Zhongshan TianMimi Information and Consultation Co. Ltd. Woman's name is Melissa Liu P788128 totally bogus profile or flat out scum scammer. Still looking so I'm shooting out cupids to control the nonsense. I get an immediate reply back the next stating that she sees in my profile I'm Australia and proceeds to ask me things about Australia and the weather. Shark has clearly stated am living and teaching here in China but these nimrods are not even reading the profiles they are form lettering responses back from cupid notes. My guess is that we curbed quite a bit of the scamming by sharing our intel that these vermin are trying new variations on the same thing, fleece the westerners because of course we're rich. If you guys are wondering the last girl I met here on Friday and Saturday, think I'll pass and continue my quest. Hell at this rate I'll have to date a hundred Chinese women before I find the perfect, such is life. After getting this response to my cupid I was pretty damm mad and after work I sent an extremely harsh letter stating that all of us here are fed of with Chnlove's indifference to our plight. I don't trust Chnlove anymore, too many red flags anymore, what is real anymore is anybodies guess. They refunded me 10 credits, Bruce 24 credits and Danny some credits even that whackjob Geordie. If they are handing out money they must know what's going on and are using it as hush money. When I travel to Hong Kong I am going to pay a very unfriendly visit to the staff and answers better be forthcoming or there will be problems. I'm getting sick and tired of the games, enough is enough. Guys start trying to get direct contact, cut Chnlove and the agencies out of the picture as soon as possible. It can be done, I got the last girl's contact info on her first emf to me and met her the next two following days. There are software programs out there if she still needs time. If we start hurting thier bottom line they will have no choice but to start shooting straight. I really want to believe Chnlove has our best interest at heart yet I know this to be a falsehood. Our money matters nothing else. If that is all they understand so be it. It is the principle it isn't about $10 emfs. Hell, I don't need Chnlove yet I hate seeing you guys get victimized. Let's put an end to this nonsense for once and for all. Bombard Chnlove with complaints as often as possible and they'll start getting the message, as united front this scum doesn't stand a chance. I for one will not tolerate this garbage from petty thieves.
China Shark Mike
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Mike my Lao Po was a little shy when we first met but she did meet me at the airport and we did hug and she did give me a quick kiss, then she looked around to see who had seen it, a friend of mine met his lady in Chengdu at the airport and she also hugged and kissed him, they were married before he came home.
So, keep your eyes open and listen to what is said and then do as your heart tells you to :angel: :heart:, that is, if your head tells you it's ok first.:dodgy:
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It looks like P368 Hand in Hand is in the habit of making fraudulant introductions - The Toon has received replies from the lady I have been talking to for some time and we are meeting in 4 weeks. That is me and the lady and not me and Toon!
She is adament that she has not been in contact with anyone else and as I speak with her on the telephone twice a day and we talk for more than one hour a day then I am inclined to believe her. Especially as Toon has sent me the copy of her first email and funny enough it is the exact same email that I received on my first contact. Details on the message are well out of date now but the same email.
She was all for going to the agency to sort them out but I have told her to wait until June when I will be their for 6 weeks.
When I first contacted her I suspected the messages were not hers. There was too much of a sameness when I received replies from other when I was cutting down my prospects from Four to the One I am visiting.
Now we do not use EMF we do all our talking by telephone every morning when she is getting ready for work and every night before she goes to bed - which is suprising as the first few requests for phone number was 'English only few words' had to be the office to get more EMF messages as we can talk for longer than an hour with the good english she has.
I will be in Zhuhai in for the whole of July so anyone who wants me to take up their cause with hand in hand when I visit them, then let me know.
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Londoner
here's one i am not sure but it might be another agency scam ans she doesn't know what is going on
P368530
She had to go out of town and a real hard time with letters before short but somewhat sweet but i think agency is working this one too not her
oh yes here is another total scam she does not look anything like her profile
Phoebe Ren - P356076
on AsianFriendFinder she is retafai01
also the one i am talking to now in private no chnlove does not look anything like her photos on there P2031699 so here might be another agency that is playing
I have been doing some looking since i could not figure login mess out
Here's a new one why not post the ones on chnlove that we find on other sites
Uncle Bruce
can i get uncle brucie back i like it better
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I have been seriously scammed last month (will post full story shortly), wasting 5 months of writing to a (fake) profile and on arrival in China there was another girl to meet me (late evening), insisting she was the girl in the profile. Not being sure immediately, I gave her the benefit of the doubt, but turned out she approached the agency only two days prior and never saw any of my messages or emails.
She paid RMB 10,000 (transacted in my hotel room) to this mob, just for meeting me.
Spent 24/7 with an imposter... LOL. May I say that I gave her value for money to the best of my ability... :D
The same has started to happen here with P368.
I have enough of this sh!t and have asked for a full refund of my credits purchase.
Toon
Dear Sir/Madam,
It has become plainly obvious that your members as well as your agencies cannot be trusted.
Your services are for a large part a serious scam.
In addition to having received fake admirer and EMF letters during my membership, short follow-up messages (without substance) have been received when I did not reply to the lady immediately (like same day!). As the translators would be well aware, such message are also charged at the same rate.
Through forums I have learned that this practise is widespread among your agencies.
As an example, the following messages are fake:
P368IDBJIED (May 23)
Word for word the same message as sent to another member long time ago.
CIDADID (May 18)
Agency P368
I replied to both of these, unaware at the time that they are fake and obviously instigated by a translator from that agency.
I do not wish to be insulted and scammed.
On May 10 I purchased 30 credits, to the value of USD 135.00. Please provide a full refund forthwith.
Yours faithfully,
Toon Verplak.
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I concur that the part that Toon refers to with P368 is correct. They have fraudulantly sent him an introduction from my lady who I have been talking to for some time and they have also answered his reply in her name. When I say the lady I am talking to I mean just that - we talk for more than an hour every day and have done so for some time and I really believe her when she says she has never heard of Toon and has not contacted by the agency apart from me for a long time. The introduction letter sent to Toon was identical word for word to that which I I received from 'her' in my first replies. So obviously my early letters to her were false as well - the difference is that I wrote to 'her' first in my case. I know that the information in her introductory letter to myself and the later to Toon may have been correct two years ago but was no longer valid now.
I was suspicious of the letters I was receiving back because at that time I was writing to several ladies and the letters were so similar.
But when I insisted that I receive a telephone number and natural photo I received both straight away and from then on our relationship blossom without going through CHNlove. When we have important things and details to pass we have email that is far away from Hand in hand agency. She has told me that she has not received my early letters and had marked it in her diary the day I first made contact with her. Which was about the time I insisted I received the phone details so it looks as if it was not till then that they started passing my mesages to her.
Ladies with Hand in Hand always have an email address ??????@126.com this is untraceable at whois but all of the ladies I wrote to have the same email so if you write to any 126.com email you will be writing to the agency.
I am going to Zhuhai in about three weeks and I will be visiting the agency. I will keep you posted of the results. I will be there for about 6 weeks this trip then returning there in the middle of August and staying until October so if you need anyone checked out whilst I am there then I will be free whilst my lady is at work.
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Ladies with Hand in Hand always have an email address ??????@126.com this is untraceable at whois but all of the ladies I wrote to have the same email so if you write to any 126.com email you will be writing to the agency.
Be careful with this information...you are going to make people paranoid for no reason. Right now, the ladies could be in China saying that we men must be a scam, because all of them (or a lot) have ??????@hotmail.com.
My wife has a 126.com, as does her brother. This is a common email program in use in China. I just wanted to clarify this.
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Hi Willy,
I do not fully trust the Hand to Hand agency in Zhuhai, China. I did EMF messages with P368360 (Ms. Li). The EMF messages were very not written very well. Later, the lady just happen find me via Yahoo to chat via Yahoo IM. The lady’s English is good. I assume that the agency was doing the EMF messages. The hand to hand agency did not provide the lady’s email addresses or phone numbers. Also, the pictures for P368360 are wrong. I got the lady’s real photographs.
Recently, I did EMF messages with P368340 (Luce Zhang). She recently said that she found another guy on Chnlove.
I did EMF messages with four or five ladies from the Hand to Hand Agency. I never traveled to Zhuhai, China. I changed my mind about going to Zhuhai, China. Let us know what you find about the Hand to Hand Agency.
Note that you do voice calls via Skype.
Fred
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Fred I'm suprised hand and hand agency in Zhuhai used to do a fairly descent job.Up until you posted this.I had never heard anything bad about them.
It is the other agency in Zhuhai that you have to watch out for.I can't remember the name right know but I will have a look and get back to you.
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Yes, Martin is right guys. Girls I'm contacting through the free personals on Shenzhenparty.com also use this type of email. It is on the up and up, but the others are mounting.
China Shark Mike
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Its me again the complainer
Yes i believe the hand in hand office in zhuhai is playing games when i wanted to setup a video or webcam with someone there which she/or they said would happen. when she wasn't busy at her work she all of a sudden gets called to go work in shengyang ( hope that is right) and now it is going to be an extended maybe permanent job there for the same boss. NOw she got my email address but i do not think she even got any letters from me,execpt maybe the first one,and she went on her way,because they got shorter and shorter of noting in them basic didn't get questions answered just too busy at work,or i have to buy something to eat.so now she is supposedly in shengyang for 5 to 6 months and since londoner is going there maybe he can check it out P368530.As usual i just get an email from her short and sweet saying she is staying at her job and likes it there another 3 liner emaill.I leave this one for londoner to look up in zhuhai hand to hand.
Now my real reason for coming here is abut another agency which the lady i know have away from them is from P2031699 told me that she does not even read any of the emails she gets from P203 at all they are just answering them
Yes that first time when you talk to a lady in person and real and fumbling around with language ,culture difficulties is good we laughed all night 4 hours and she wants to com back at 7 when she gets home from school and talk more i love it
makes a person just seeing the joy for the first wonderful.
Anyways so maybe this one in chengdu is up to something too P203
That is all so hopefully everyone has read the list and are staying away from the other ladies i have posted
Uncle Bruce
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I am getting concerned about the ever growing list of shady practices. How is it that some of us are meeting wonderful ladies, while others are having a rough go of it?
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Martin , with reference to your Question on Shady practices , with everyone battening down due to the financial problems world wide and most of the translators at the agencies being paid a percentage for the number of translations both ways that they do , it is very much to the translators weekly / monthly pay how she / he creates volume as volume = money .
I think there has been a revolving door policy and for each disgruntled male there have been easy replacements , and it is only now where we are telling it in a blow by blow way instantly , that the picture is starting to emerge .
One further thing would be as many have done would be for anyone writing emf's to ask for the translators name and get friendly with them and most will treat you more personally in the short time and ask them Questions to .
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Having off-and-on in my working worldwide over the years been tracking Internet Dating scams through acquaintance Reporters Sans Frontieres and CA Border guards these scams going on right now under the noses of the Chinese government is nothing new because it is the centuries old exploitation of women, and having always been a gangster operated business it will never be eradicated.
ChnLove agencies are nothing but glorified Pimps.
Pimps always on the lookout to increase their take from the work of females elevated themselves from the prostitute business into the “high class” sex – people who are married do have sex - business with contracts. Where before they had to troll the streets to lasso clients for their stable, now they regard themselves high class businessmen with an office, computers, secretaries, tea ladies etc. showing on their Website ladies who are interested in marrying a foreigner. These ladies not having any other means at their disposal are their prey, and the law protects these glorified Pimps because the lady signed a 2-year contract during which contract time she gets scalped to the tune of 60,000 Yuan (US$2,000) plus additional charges when she gives her personal information – phone #, home address, E-mail, correspond direct, when the prospective husband visit her in China, marriage rigmarole, visa, unending is the gimmickry these high class Pimps can fabricate to suck the last Yuan out the ladies. To give females a chance to have some control over themselves the US has now a law on the books requiring the lady to give her personal details and declare she is actively looking for a husband. To circumnavigate this law the agencies pushes the “marry in China card”. No problem if the man goes live in China with his Chinese wife. When he wants to go back to the US to live, a foreign wife of American citizen Visa need to be applied for, the US Embassy in China is well aware what goes on and just sits on the Visa application for months on end, another excuse by the agency sucking Yuan out the lady claiming active pursuing the issuing of the Visa, all rubbish off course.
ChnLove has been an on-and-off affair for the past several years with me, I never get anywhere with the ladies. That is the few who do send me an initial contact EMF. Right now I’m on again having received an initial contact EMF from a lady that meets all my criteria. So far no reply EMF from her yet. I’m not a young guy I’m a 75-year old retired person living on a golf course in Thailand. Reason it always comes to nothing because I get involved in my correspondence asking if her contract is finished and in a round about way plug in my e-mail. A few months ago I contacted a Doctor again from a couple years back who is still on the ChnLove Website asked in my EMF to her if her contract is finished and in my roundabout way written conversation plugged in my e-mail. Received a few paragraph EMF from her, nothing about the contract, as for the e-mail she said, “My English is still not good enough for email”, which is after listing LEARNING: English since 2006. I was given 2-Semesters to get up to speed to attend regular college courses as a student from Holland in New Zealand. She is a Doctor and 3-year later she still is not up to speed for simple e-mail contact? Set me to wonder as a Doctor how she keeps up with medical practices advances if she can’t even grasp enough English in 3-year for simple E-mail correspondence. It would not surprise me if the reply EMF was from the agency and the Doctor never was given my EMF. Why should the agency care they got $10.00 coming and going.
The MAIN PROBLEM with ChnLove setup is:
THE TRANSLATOR(s) and the ladies contract.
Eliminate the translators and replace them with electronic translation. There is now some very good electronic translation software on the market doing a very good job of translating everyday-use language.
The lady opens on her or Internet Café computer the ChnLove Site writes her e-mail in Chinese and sends it. When the man opens the ChnLove Site on his computer in the inbox is the lady’s letter. He opens it and click translate – Chinese to English / English to Chinese – after a few minutes when translation completed it is on the respective monitor for reading.
For this no human involvement ChnLove has to be compensated. This can be done either of two ways:
Credits: 1-letter vv Chinese to English translation on the man’s computer and his reply on the Lady’s or Internet Café computer English to Chinese $5.00 or
Membership: 1-month $25.00 unlimited use letters coming and going.
Don’t worry about unlimited in my whole 75-yr. life I have known only one guy who did write a letter every day to his prospective wife vv. Like Smorgasbord meals: As much as you can eat. I have know several owners of these places and they all did well and did not worry about the occasional glutton that walked into the place.
Contract in the shredder.
Any business has to have money to stay in business.
Ladies Application Fee $50.00/yr. Renewal $25.00/yr. this will stop any asshole and her sister walking in the door. It will also stop this utter ridiculous number of as I see some agencies telling viewers: 127,000 ladies on file. It automatically weeds out the ones that found a husband and the ones not interested in the hunt any longer.
In addition ChnLove can offer other services for a fee i.e. Visa application service, Airline tickets, Passport application, organizing the wedding and lavish banquet for them foolish enough to waste their money to become as the Chinese say: “Big Face”, for those who know better use for their money taking the couple to City hall marriage registrar’s office to get the marriage license, car rental, bus tickets, train tickets, conducted tours tickets, and lots more. For which ChnLove must post a Fee Schedule.
As you can see there is a living to be made from this type HONEST operation. For those grown up in business during the last several decades with 100% profit on any and everything you do it is better to become realistic and come back to the days when I learned business in the depression days under socialism when companies were allowed a maximum of 3% clear profit. Yes 3% clear profit, in the fifties when I was working on assignment in CA one day I received a cheque from Ma Bell (you youngsters probably don’t know who Ma Bell was) Bell telephone during its financial year before had made more than 3% clear profit so all customers received a refund cheque. Also received one time one from Sears & Sawbucks (for you youngsters Sears & Roebucks). Hopefully real socialism soon will be back to clear up the financial morass people presently are being sucked into.
DrFransBRoosPHD.
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As usual i just get an email from her short and sweet saying she is staying at her job and likes it there another 3 liner emaill.I leave this one for londoner to look up in zhuhai hand to hand.
The girl I am communicating with is from the other agengy; Zhuhai Huaxin Marriage Research Center, but I am happy to conduct a bit of detective work for you when I get there in July
Consider this job done Uncle Bruce :)
Worryingy, most of Chinese Shark's list of scammers come from this agency! I just hope my girl is the exception as far as this scamming business is concerned.
Torano
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A few months ago I contacted a Doctor again from a couple years back who is still on the ChnLove Website asked in my EMF to her if her contract is finished and in my roundabout way written conversation plugged in my e-mail. Received a few paragraph EMF from her, nothing about the contract, as for the e-mail she said, “My English is still not good enough for email”, which is after listing LEARNING: English since 2006. I was given 2-Semesters to get up to speed to attend regular college courses as a student from Holland in New Zealand. She is a Doctor and 3-year later she still is not up to speed for simple e-mail contact? Set me to wonder as a Doctor how she keeps up with medical practices advances if she can’t even grasp enough English in 3-year for simple E-mail correspondence. It would not surprise me if the reply EMF was from the agency and the Doctor never was given my EMF. Why should the agency care they got $10.00 coming and going.
Frans, this doctor you wrote to sounds just like the doctor I am writing to. Was she from Zhuhai? She has been on the books since 2006 and like the lady you were writing to she was supposedly learning English since 2006.
I am not sure that is an issue or not. There is no category of "No English and no plans to learn it". The lowest level is "learning".
I can imagine just giving this game away and not having any interest in having anything to do with Chinese women anymore. It's the same way for women there, you leave your profile up and don't pay much attention to it anymore. What's wrong with that?
I don't think it's necessary for doctors to speak English to keep up with medical practices. If there is a good system for monitoring international journals and translating them, then I am not sure that this is a problem.
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Laura from Zhuhai.
I am exchanging correspondence with her also (or possibly with her translator).
Willy The Londoner is visiting her soon, so she is Willy's girl. Hands off everybody! :exclamation:
Toon
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A few months ago I contacted a Doctor again from a couple years back who is still on the ChnLove Website asked in my EMF to her if her contract is finished and in my roundabout way written conversation plugged in my e-mail. Received a few paragraph EMF from her, nothing about the contract, as for the e-mail she said, “My English is still not good enough for email”, which is after listing LEARNING: English since 2006. I was given 2-Semesters to get up to speed to attend regular college courses as a student from Holland in New Zealand. She is a Doctor and 3-year later she still is not up to speed for simple e-mail contact? Set me to wonder as a Doctor how she keeps up with medical practices advances if she can’t even grasp enough English in 3-year for simple E-mail correspondence. It would not surprise me if the reply EMF was from the agency and the Doctor never was given my EMF. Why should the agency care they got $10.00 coming and going.
Frans, this doctor you wrote to sounds just like the doctor I am writing to. Was she from Zhuhai? She has been on the books since 2006 and like the lady you were writing to she was supposedly learning English since 2006.
I am not sure that is an issue or not. There is no category of "No English and no plans to learn it". The lowest level is "learning".
I can imagine just giving this game away and not having any interest in having anything to do with Chinese women anymore. It's the same way for women there, you leave your profile up and don't pay much attention to it anymore. What's wrong with that?
I don't think it's necessary for doctors to speak English to keep up with medical practices. If there is a good system for monitoring international journals and translating them, then I am not sure that this is a problem.
Hi Danny,
The Doctor I referred to is from the land of the Panda, Sichuan, Chengdu city.
As for English comprehension it all depends how you look at it. I see foreign men here in Thailand who do not speak Thai and the woman they live (“married’) with do not speak his language, so they just go around like animals in the Jungle making grunting noises and nodding or shaking as the case requires their heads. Of course the foreign man and the Tai woman are both from the low end of the working class and I can understand the situation.
As for the Doctor, I place her at the upper end of the Middle Class and have higher expectations of her based on past experience with trainees in foreign countries in learning to fly commercial airplanes and also maintenance engineering, after two years learning English they were fully proficient in English to immerge themselves in the subjects I instructed. Do not overlook the fact that we are dealing with Chinese which is a highly intelligent race who can accomplish anything they set their mind to. Go to Beijing and look at the aw-inspiring things they accomplished for the 2008 Olympics. Take a look at the 3-Gorges Dam; world top Dam design engineers said it could not be done and would not submit bids on the project. Look at the Highest Railroad in the world, the one to Tibet, engineers who run the Alaska Railroad said the project was impossible. And there is getting more every day.
The lady (in this case a Doctor) has put her Profile on the Internet to lasso a foreign man and undertook as the Profile shows, English: LEARNING it is reasonable to expect so she can converse with the foreign man she lassoed. How serious is she in her pursuit? If she has no intention to learn English then she should have her Profile state ENGLIS: No intentions learn. Three year later she still admits herself she cannot do any thing in English on the computer, and she has a computer.
In connection with my working and living all over the world I never married resulting in being an independent person capable doing his own housekeeping and my attitude, if I meet some lady that meets me halfway fine, if not, that is how the cookies crumble. In the meantime the Profile is on the Internet for any lady interested in reading it and deciding.
I just received the reply from the lady that initially contacted me. No answers to my questions about her contract and other agency tie-ups. The answer to my imbedded email, I will lift the answer from the EMF:
know the computer system. It always takes much time. I understand you.
My English is not good, so in order to make our communication more clearly, I think we'd better write letter here, ok?
This lady also, like the Doctor, she has a computer.
This lady lists, ENGLISH: FAIR.
The reply gives me the impression that it is the regular canned reply the agencies have.
Maybe the agency phoned her and she said (like the regular Thai reply when a Thai is put in front of having to make a decision “Up to You”).
This Forum is very interesting, has a lot of good information for newbies and supplies me with how other people look at a subject.
DrFransBRoosPHD
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And as far as I can see Dr Franz, you are not too bad with some of you in-depth answers too. :)
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Well...maybe in fairness to the agency that posted her profile, they are wanting to make some money...because afterall, this is a money making business. To switch right over to personal e-mail gets the agency what? Or do you expect a good will service because....well...why?
While I agree with getting of EMF's quickly, there has to be some some money made by the agency. So I am sure they are putting the brakes on. I did not approach the subject of getting of from the EMF system for a little while. I offered to phone her instead. The agency did not try to stop this, because we were not trying to jump off from their system. And after a short while longer, we started chatting on web cam. We still kept up with translated e-emails. I know it got pricey, but this was the way I chose to do things. If you are interested in meeting a Chinese lady from Chnlove, then this is the way you have to do it.
To assume it is all a scam, because you want to cut and run from paying for anything...isn't that shoplifting? Or maybe, and I am going to be blunt here, maybe you are just not interesting to the ladies.
And to assume that because her English level is learning...well...sadly, this is a Chnlove mistake on their page. I agree, when it says learning, they would be learning something. What it really means is, "does not speak English." But from my experience with my lady, and what I have read from others...when a lady gets into a committed relationship with one of us guys, she usually tries her hardest to learn the language. Until then, there is not a lot of point, because who is to say she will meet a western man. And with English being somewhat of an unused language in China, it makes sense to me that they have not learned any.
Just something to chew on.
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Just like Martin wrote my lady isn't learning English... She have started to learn Swedish instead because she will move to Sweden in the future... She knows a little English but haven't used it for a long time and have forgotten most of it before I came.. Now she have started to pick it up again but still in a very small scale.
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Hi Londoner - When are you going to Zhuhai - I arrive 30th June and leave in August.
Willy the Londoner
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Hi Londoner - When are you going to Zhuhai - I arrive 30th June and leave in August.
Willy the Londoner
Hi Willy, I am planning to arrive there last week of July and will be returning around second week of August. I usually end up hundreds of miles away from my intended destination :) (this is my fourth trip to China). I understand that you planning to stay in China longer than me, would you be visiting other cities/provinces?
Torano
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Hi Londoner - When are you going to Zhuhai - I arrive 30th June and leave in August.
Willy the Londoner
Hi Willy, I am planning to arrive there last week of July and will be returning around second week of August. I usually end up hundreds of miles away from my intended destination :) (this is my fourth trip to China). I understand that you planning to stay in China longer than me, would you be visiting other cities/provinces?
Torano
Hi mate - I am going to be in Zhuhai for most of the time but me and my lady are planning a trip toThailand for about 14 days where she has relatives.
I got to be back in UK for 8th August then flying back to China week later. Trip to Thailand maybe when I get back after 15th August and will be there until end of March 2010 with maybe two visits back to UK in that time.
Willy the Londoner
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Just likt to throw in my bad experience with agency:
Company: Foshan SiYeCao Culture Consultation Co., Ltd.
Agency ID: P678.
Id be careful dealing with them. Long story short: Did write with a girl, or at least i thoought i did ;). Turn's out that i must have been dealing with the translator all the time. Ot at least just before i arrived in Guangzhou.
This happende during desember-february last winter. Did not bother to complain since i was "alone" here. With you guys in the back i will make a complain to customer care, also did rate the agency and stated my opinion. Out of curisoity i looked up the girl, and last refresh was shortly after i stopped writing. Make me belive that we both were tricked.
Im considering to activate my profile again, but do not feel happy about giving money to this company. Have to think some more about that.
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daghoi, What happened there? in Guangzhou. You met her and she didn't know about you? Or something like that?
At least it was the same girl as i had received picutres of. That part was correct, but she had no idea of who i was and what we had discussed for the last few months. So i ended it all the second day.
Earlier today i opened my profile and after a short while i had to admieres letter. One from the P518 agenceyu, which is mentioned on this forum. Both profiles were relativ old, and refresh was february this year and november last year. Feel like this is to old profiles to be from real girls. Off course by now in kind of paranoide. I hide my profile again and are waiting for answer from customer care about my case. Wont be surprised if the say it is to old to deal with now. I did mention to them that i had gone oublic with my experience here and their answer might also will be published here. Not sure how they will respond to that. I know it can go both ways, either they are provoked or they see it at a chance to show that they deal with the negative experiences.
I must add that after the frustration/disappointment went away. I had a great vacation there. I kind of fell in love wiht the country, if that is possible ? A few weeks ago i also booked plane ticket to Beijing in august, just for vacation (No girl waiting ;) ). So my Chinese adventure is just starting. I do write with a few girls that i have met through other sources than chnlove.com. Time will show how that works out. By chance on of them are from Beijing so i will probably suggest a meeting if it feels right later on.
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Dissapointed to hear that guys are still being 'scam' .... so here's a thread for us to take our own action of listing ... Feel free to add your own experiences
ChnLove Member ... Agency Bad Experience
Vince ... P608
Froseman, Hans, Alex ... AVOID The Changsha Love Bridge Company Agency ID: P216
RC Campbell ... Agency #P203 ... fake letters written by the translator
David Quincy ... Chengdu Agency # P211 ... fake letters written by translator
Willy The Londoner ( Toon ) ... THE "HAND IN HAND AGENCY" P368 in Zhuhai
Daghoi ... Foshan SiYeCao Culture Consultation Co., Ltd. Agency ID: P678 ... fake letters
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Dale, Danny ... says avoid Aristocrat Garden Matchmaking, Agency ID: P566 ... has incontrovertible evidence that he was sent fake letters by translator - am actually happily writing to the the woman who was with this agency
I disagree with the listing of Hand in Hand Agency in Zhuhai. I have used this agency happily for nearly a year. Anyone who wants to talk about this agency with me, I'm happy to talk directly to. It could be just an instance of "one bad apple".
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Danny, you're right ... could have been one bad apple ... I forgot who dealt with that agency. In starting this thread, I attempted to match the member's name with their bad experiences as a reference for others to talk with and share their stories.
That's why the title has the words "Extreme Caution" ... I'm not saying to avoid totally.
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I do believe that extreme caution should be taken with GZB272 also, if I remember correctly, they had a Shark Bite that got one of the translators terminated, and I truly believe that the agency had a lot to do with me and the lady I was corresponding with if I was really corresponding with her, and I do in a lot of respects believe that I was, but that the agency had a lot of control over the lady.
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I do believe that extreme caution should be taken with GZB272 also,
It's like the Moon , one side is alway's Black .
I found my Wife there and had nothing but good memories with them .
Wouldn't that show , it's all the Translator's fault ( only them ) , because if it was the Agency , wouldn't all the hired Translator's be doing the same Good or same Bad . What kind of Management would that be , you there ... you scam and ...you only translate and be honest .
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Danny, you're right ... could have been one bad apple ... I forgot who dealt with that agency. In starting this thread, I attempted to match the member's name with their bad experiences as a reference for others to talk with and share their stories.
That's why the title has the words "Extreme Caution" ... I'm not saying to avoid totally.
No worries. I shouldn't have said "disagree" because that's not what I mean.
I really meant to say that in addition to this member's bad experience, I would like to say that I have had a good experience.
I am really grateful to this agency, at least the people I've dealt with.
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Daghoi bravo don't let this bs deter you from following your dream even it is only loving the country, lol. You see some good came out of a negative experience. Good luck on your future prospects. Hell, if you visit enough times you are bound to find one eventually. We're all behind you, live you dream life is too short to take for granted.
China Shark Mike
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My credits purchased only a few weeks ago are almost spent. The ladies saw to that by sending frequent EMF follow ups (next day, or day after), without giving me the courtesy to respond in my own time.
Another issue with those EMFs is that a credit is charged WHEN IT IS SENT, NOT WHEN WE OPEN THEM. This is not right.
I will not be buying anymore credits again, the few hundred bucks in a few weeks got me nowhere.
My experience in Fushun (Liaoning) in April has left me traumatized severely and I am not looking for a repeat. Such agencies are not operated by human beings, but by the lowest scums of the earth.
And to think that my sentimental $100 perfume for "my girl" went to a total stranger (the imposter)... who I will never want to see again. I am deeply insulted at the same time.
Toon
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Definitely Aristocrat Garden Marketing Agency, Letters being written by the translator without the ladies knowledge. There are others outside the Brothas have said the same thing.
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More reading on guys who have been scammed - including Chnlove.com:
http://agencyscams.com/Why/chinalove.html
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If have just deleted the post I was going to send!!!
Best to say, I agree with Vince's sentiments completely ! :D
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I am off to China for an initial 6 weeks this month and I return to UK and then go back to China two weeks later where I will stay for the rest of 2009 and probably beyond that. (Hoping that my D visa will come through ok.)
I am not working there so will have plenty of spare time and I will make my own mind up about Chnlove during that time. I have had a problem with a chnlove agency but will find the answer myself. I will not take hearsay from anon people, one of whom admits being with Chnlove for three years and having made two visits reads an article and decides he was being scammed. If being scammed why did it take him so long?
At least with this site no one is able to post anonymously and I have learned a lot from experienced members whose advice I trust implicitly.
Willy the Londoner
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I have had a problem with a chnlove agency but will find the answer myself. I will not take hearsay from anon people, one of whom admits being with Chnlove for three years and having made two visits reads an article and decides he was being scammed. If being scammed why did it take him so long?
At least with this site no one is able to post anonymously and I have learned a lot from experienced members whose advice I trust implicitly.
Willy the Londoner
Willy, sounds like you have a sensible head on those shoulders. Have a great trip.
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Yes Willy; godspeed and good fortune for you.
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Have a great time on your trip and hope all goes well for you, and like the others have said, keep us updated on all you wonderful activities while you are there
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Getting back on topic of this thread.... I was curious to see that if so much bad evidence was sharred about agency GZB272, what affect we have had on their business. When I checked the Chnlove.com site to see what their rating is, I see it is at 90%. I would have thought that it would have taken a bigger hit. I would hate to think that the % rating was falsified by Chnlove, or the other bad feeling that our impact is at best minumum:(
As a side note: I took another quick look at a few different agencies and the ratings tend to average between 94 to 96%. Maybe our impact accounts for a 6% affect. If this is the case, at least it is a start.
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Am locking this topic for the moment pending mod review and discussion.
This is not what this forum is about.