China Romance
All About China => Share your love story => Topic started by: Chong on December 05, 2009, 03:30:55 am
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Long story short, Sunny and I met on July 9th. Her uncle knew another man who knew the security guard at the hotel that I was staying at in Taishan. I stayed with her in Kaiping for a week and then I went back home. I came back to visit her from Aug 8th till Oct 25th. We became engaged on Chinese Valentine's Day, Aug 26th. I'm back in Kaiping from Dec 2nd till Oct 17th 2010. Thanks for all the early 'congratulations' on Sunny and I getting our Red Book.
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Getting Our Red Book
My sister Shirley, Sunny and I went to the Marriage Registry to get the Red Book today December 4th. At the registry, it took 45 minutes for the lady to approve of our documents and for us to fill out two applications afterwards. The lady at the desk wasn't polite at all. After reviewing our documents, she literally toss it back at us. We didn't even get a 'Congratulations'. She wouldn't let my sister take pictures during the application. Then we were sent upstairs to get our Red Books. Cost for the marriage was 95 RMB. We got an open plaque to put in our Red Books and a TWO textbook on Chinese marriage ... I think ??? ... it's all in Chinese. They had a photographer there to take a series of photos. They wouldn't allow any photos to be taken by my sister but she did manage to get in two shots. The price for their photos was 230 RMB. We didn't want any but there were two nice photos so Shirley brought them for 50 RMB. We'll go to get multiple copies on our own. So now it's official, Sunny [ not Irish's ] and I are man & wife.
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Congratulations to you Chong and your lovely new wife Sunny, I am relieved to see its not my Sunny :P
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Thanks Irish
Introduction Red Envelope Wars
The discussion about how much I and Sunny's family have to give the security guard Mr Huo [ for introducing us ] has been an ongoing topic ever since I left Kaiping on July 31st. He constantly hounds Sunny on her cellphone. At one point, he asked for 30,000 RMB. First of all, I'm glad that he introduced Sunny by way of his friend Mr. Wu and through Sunny's uncle, Mr. Kuang Guo Pei. But all he did was make a phone call. I was going to give him a token of appreciation of 3,000 RMB but that changed last night. Mr. Huo had the audacity to suggest to Sunny that he would gossip about her family if he didn't get a large amount of money. So I reduced his Red Envelope to 2,000 RMB. Nobody talks to my wife like that. At lunch today, the family gathered and Mr. Huo and Mr. Wu was invited. I gave them each a pack of Canadian 'Export A' cigarettes and Mr. Huo said a smartass remark of ... "only one pack, where's the carton". To which I replied ... "Why smoke so much, you want to die ?". Mr. Huo is the type of man where nothing ever is going to satisfly him. If you get him "A", he'll want "A+". He even had the nerve to say that since his wife won't be able to make the wedding dinner reception, we'll need to treat him and his wife for dinner at a later date. When I gave him my Red Envelope, he put it in his pocket. After they left, the family had a heated discussion about how much they should give him. Mr. Huo phoned Sunny soon to say that I didn't give him a lot and wanted more from the family. So the negotiations began. The bottom line was that the family will give Mr. Huo 8,000 RMB. However he wants to split it with Mr. Wu is his problem. I gave Sunny's parents $ 2,999 Cdn. At the current exchange rate of 6.49, that's over 19,000 RMB. Mr. Huo wasn't going to get more than my in-laws. The only person who wanted to give more was Sunny's Grandmother but that's because she got 12,000 RMB once before when she introduced a girl to someone. All the uncles and aunts are deadset against giving Mr. Huo anymore than 8,000 RMB. The guy only makes $ 250 Cdn a month. He's getting five months of free salary for just making a phone call. He should be happy he's getting anything IMHO. Anyhow during the evening, he called Sunny again after receiving his second Red Envelope clearly disappointed. That's when I took over the phone and set him straight. In short, thanks for introducing Sunny to me and be thankful for what you received. Don't call Sunny anymore.
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Chong,
Great news and beautiful bride. The both of you make a great looking couple. I wish many happy years for the two of you.
The situation with the man who introduced the two of you. Does the hotel he work at know he is doing this? Just a thought.
Shaun
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The situation with the man who introduced the two of you. Does the hotel he work at know he is doing this? Just a thought.
Thanks Shaun, lots of people do it ( arrange marriages for introduction money ) in China. The guy works for an independent security firm. My sister even got lots of marriage arrangement propositions in these first few days from strangers willing to find her a husband.
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Ah, she's beautiful Chong. Congratulations!
Wow, some people feel like the world owes them. I hope he leaves you both alone now.
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Chong , a big Congratulation on your Wedding to your Sweetheart ( Sunny ) from both Qing and Myself .
Mister Huo ( the Blackmailer ) granted he got you two together with a Call by his Phone , but if it was me .. after treating me like that .. I give him the money what it cost him for the Call and buy him and his Wife a Dinner and that's IT . Maybe a kick in the rear TOO . It's a shame how everything has to be about Money . I would have just been happy for the two of you ( if I was the one introducing you two ) isn't that a enough payment ?
Again , our best wishes for a equally happy Life as Qing and I .
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Great update Chong and you look a great couple. I hope I get to that stage some day!
Thanks for letting us know about the money issue. Many of my fellow brothers post only the good stuff that happens, but we learn so much more from the bad and annoying stuff :icon_biggrin:.
I hate silly feuds. There is a whole branch of my own family tree that we don't talk about, because of some stupidity :s.
In England matchmaking is seen as an honourable thing to do, and I've never heard of money changing hands. Our cultures are indeed very different. The satisfaction of seeing the happy couple is usually enough compensation :icon_cheesygrin:.
Good luck with married life!
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Arnold,
This sort of thing is so, so common in China amongst the Chinese. From what i can remember, there was a going rate for introductions leading to a marriage at around 10 to 15k RMB, more if one or other, were from a very wealthy family. In fact the fee is generally based on the wealth of the families involved. Many agree a fee figure before any matchmaking takes place, then i guess there's no argument at the end....
What i was told is, that you never let on to these matchmakers that you have money, so perhaps somehow he found out that Chong was a guy with a bit of money. Either way, he does seem to be a bit of a wide boy and a greedy bugger. Asking 30,000 is over the top, that's basically what the agencies charge, not Joe Bloggs off the street .....or should that be Chung Lee?? ...hahaha!!
You should know by now Arnold, in China, outside of family matters, making Money is there main and overwhelming concern, it's how most Chinese families survive. So any money they can make on the side, outside of there salaries is always sort after....
So your sentiments just wouldn't hold any water in China, because they just don't see it the same way that you do......
I forgot to congratulate Chong and Sunny, ...lets hope you both have a happy and fulfilling life together.
David....
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Congrats Chong. Why are you staying so long? Paperwork to come back?
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Thanks Chocolate Neil, SiFu Arnold, David & Brett ... [ you can get GZ Daniels address from Chnlove Customer Service ]. Yes Regnis, I'll wait here with Sunny till she gets her papers. Hopefully, it'll take only six-eight months.
Wedding Rituals
On Friday, we went out for Dim Sum before the tea ceremony and before getting our Red Book. At Sunny's Mom's apartment, I gave her Mom my Red Envelope of $ 2,999 Cdn. Sunny got a 'RE' of $ 200 Cdn to buy jewellery and her brother got a 'RE' of $ 60 Cdn to buy shoes. There was four big boxes of pastries that had to be divided up and pass on to family relatives. Sunny gave my sister a cup of tea and that was it for the ceremony. We didn't get any pastries but I wanted some on Saturday but Sunny's Mom didn't want to give the leftovers to me because she was afraid that the mice got to them overnight.
Fast forward to Saturday night. I won't have to do the 'begging' part as the other brothers have to do. Sunny doesn't want that part of the celebration. Tomorrow is our wedding dinner celebration night. In the morning, Sunny will head over to the make-up dept of the photography studio. Her uncle will pick me up at 11:30 am. I just have to bring two packages of cookies and a bag of candies. Compared to the other brothers, I'm getting off easy regarding rituals. We'll head back to our apartment where I'll be doing my half of the tea ceremony. I have to give my in-laws 600 RMB each in a 'RE" & GrandMom 200 RMB for them to buy clothes. Her in-laws have to return a 'RE' of $ 200 Cdn for me to buy a suit, belt and wallet. There are only 'even' numbers involved, no odd numbers. After the tea ceremony, we're not allow to sweep the floor. We're also not allow to wash our hair tomorrow. After waking up tomorrow morning, I have to change new bedsheets, pillow cases and the blanket. We have approximately 90 guests. But there'll be 8 or 10 tables ... again involving even numbers. The restaurant is just across the river from our apartment. I can see it from my bedroom window. I'm carrying 10,000 RMB which should cover the meal. I'll update with the actual cost. So tomorrow night I'll raise a glass to all the brothas ... the ones who have gone through their own wedding and to all the future wedding celebrations that we'll read about. I'll toast you guys TWICE. It doesn't have anything to do with even numbers, I just want TWO big sips ... hehehe CHEERS !!!
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[attachment=1125]
Salute
here's to you
good health
skol,
prosit,
l'chaim,
bottoms up,
down the hatch,
here's mud in your eye,
cheers,
Gan bei
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Good luck Chong!
Thanks for giving us all the details, we guys always like to know how much cash is involved! Tomorrow I'll raise two glasses for you!
P.S. Thanks for the tip about the agency. But I have lost my patience with Miss Wu, and I am data mining chnlove in search of someone who will appreciate me a bit more. I have found a fellow biotechnologist, so things are looking up :icon_cheesygrin:.
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Again Congrats son. I guess government offices are the same all over the world. I did get a smile from ours though and she let us take her picture. The RE is a pain in the A$$. It causes more trouble than anything else in getting married. This is Sunny's first though so I guess it is more important the first time. I guess you had to save the family's face to even give him anything except dinner. When I go back in February I told my wife we had to go to either GZ or Kaiping to see you and Sunny. We will arrange the dates once I get there. She does want to go to hainan, if you have never been there it is a great Island paradise. Again Congrats Son, really happy for you.
Dad
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Happy days my friend Happy days :heart::heart:
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Arnold,
You should know by now Arnold, in China, outside of family matters, making Money is there main and overwhelming concern, it's how most Chinese families survive. So any money they can make on the side, outside of there salaries is always sort after....
So your sentiments just wouldn't hold any water in China, because they just don't see it the same way that you do..
David....
I know very well David . I said if it was me , he would get what " I " feel is right and I don't care what HE thinks or would want . Wanting and getting are still TWO different things in ANY Country , even China .
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Hmm! Matchmaking - that sounds like an ideal profession for me if I get bored out here.
I have maybe 150 members of this forum who may not be completely suited yet for a start - so at 8000rmb each that works out at hmm! hmm! Well whatever it is its a lots of money.
Willy
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Great news and good luck to you and Sunny..
Like me you will have a small Chinese wedding :icon_biggrin:
Peter
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Arnold,
To a point i agree with you, but you still have to remember this is how some make extra money for there families. This particular guy is just taking the pee asking for 30000 rmb, but the going rate is around 10 to 15k. As i said before, if your going to go this route, always agree the price before hand. Oh, and note they collect from both parties, not just the man...... Going from what Chong has written above, he has actually received the going rate 2K from Chong and 8K from Sunny's family. What this guy was after, was that sort of figure from both parties, ....but got bummed out!! lol!!!
This isn't anything that is going to affect any of our western members here, and probably not the majority of our overseas Chinese members. This method of finding a marriage partner is generally in the domain of the domestic Chinese population...
David....
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I am very glad this is a Chinese custom, and not an American one...because the woman I am seeing in less than 3 weeks was introduced to me on this forum, from a brother (mpo...). I'm sure glad he isn't expecting any monetary fees from me.... :blush:
Thanks so much Mike!!! :angel:
Scott
P.S. Some treasures do get paid in heaven...for believers.
Scott,
Mike told me he was expecting you to pay for his next trip to China in 3 months. :icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin:
ya babe it is often I can get two bird with one stone. :angel:
Shaun
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Ah! Scott I was sent to collect... (http://www.chnlove.info/attachment.php?aid=1068) it is the Forum custom to collect for any introductions through this forum. Since it's split between the mods and admin. I take EMF credits but some of the others take dumplings as payment. :icon_cheesygrin:
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Thanks for all the above well wishes guys !!! :icon_biggrin:
Our Wedding Day & Night
Sunday morning, my sister and I played Chinese poker from 9 am till 12 noon. Sunny was getting her make-up done and all the activity was happening at her Mom's house. I was just waiting for her uncle to pick me up. At Sunny's photography studio alone, there was forty-two ( 42 ) brides doing their make-ups. This weekend was popular days for weddings. When we drove through the city, you saw bridal cars on every major streets. Sunny called to say that I have to prepare a Red Envelope Door Entry Fee of 199 RMB in loose change. Apparently, her girlfriends want her to do the tradition of me paying to see her. Uncle and a few other men came to our apartment to hang good luck banners.
We then drove to Sunny's Mom's place. The verbal bantering at the door with her girlfriends was easy as I can speak the local Taishanese. Sunny looked very beautiful; my sister started crying. Having picked up my bride, we returned to our apartment to bless the heavens. One of the Aunts ( and Sunny has many ) carried two bamboo 'Good Luck' rattan baskets and two live chickens. At our apartment, there were many guests who arrived already from the convoy of six cars. Each car got a RE of 100 RMB. After the blessings, I was told to give out two Red Envelopes to each guest containing a five and a ten RMB bill. The Aunt gave me 1,000 RMB in brand new 5s & 10s bills change from the bank and I gave her back 1,000 RMB ... another last minute money surprise. Handing out the REs, I made it through the living room but when I got to the kitchen, people surrounded me asking for REs for their kids and spouses who weren't there. Out of the 1,000 RMB, I only used 440 RMB.
Next Sunny, myself and Auntie with the 'Good Luck' baskets and two live chickens headed back to Mom & Dad's place where we had to do a tea ceremony. Mom & Dad got a RE of 600 RMB each. I received back a RE of $ 200 Cdn to buy a suit, belt and wallet. Then we sat down for an afternoon early dinner. Then Sunny and I headed back to our apartment. The chickens didn't come back; this is the end of the road for them. Back at the apartment, GrandMom got a RE of 300 RMB. They put Sunny's nephew on our bed as a 'Good Luck' charm so our first born can be a 'son'. So he got a RE of 100 RMB. On our bed was four 'Good Luck' red pillows symbolizing '100', 'years', 'good' and 'togetherness'.
At 6 pm, we headed to the hotel restaurant. Mr. Huo, his wife and Mr. Wu came. They were very joyful at the reception line. Mr. Huo gave us a RE of 50 RMB. Apparently, Mr. Huo and Mr. Wu only got 3,000 RMB each as an introduction fee. Later, Sunny's Mom gave each of them a RE of 1,000 RMB. After all is said and done, this was a peacekeeping gesture. So overall including my 2,000 RMB, they got 5,000 RMB each. After Sunny and I entered the dining room, I gave a speech in Taishanese thanking our families. I also gave recognition to Mr. Huo. My sister started clapping and everybody in the room followed suit. Giving him face was very important to me and to Mr. Huo. Later he apologized to me for the way things evolved. It's water under the bridge but as a last gesture, I'm expected to treat him and his wife to dinner when we go back to Taishan to pay respect to my Mom's village home. We had 12 main courses. Dinner for eight tables cost 5,609 RMB. We brought our own booze which cost 396 RMB. So each table cost me 750 RMB or about $ 115 Cdn for 10 people. Dinner lasted for only one hour. Guests brought their own plastic bags to hoard leftovers. They even took home the remains of the turtle soup because it's an expensive delicacy. Sunny received gold jewelleries from her family. Many guests didn't give REs. If there's a 'concern' in the family, tradition is ... you don't accept REs. From the ones that we collected, the total came out to 1,860 RMB. 800 RMB alone came from Sunny's two best friends. So in reality, we collected only 1,000 from over 80 guests. Needless to say, everybody came for a free meal. When Mr. Huo left, he mouthed off at Sunny saying that she didn't appreciate what he did for her in findng me. Oh well. There was a mad traffiic jam heading out from the hotel as many bridal dinners finished at the same time. When we arrived back home, Martin called ... what good timing. He and Sunny had a brief conversation.
So the total wedding cost came out to ...
Red Book 100, Dinner 5,609, Booze 396, Car RE 600, Door Entry 199, In-law RE 1,200, Apartment Guest RE 440, Apartment Snacks 30, Nephew RE 100, GrandMom RE 300, Wedding Dress 399, hotel room cost for out-of-town guests 800 = 10,173 RMB + wedding pictures 3399 [ which we haven't taken yet ] = 13,572 minus RE received of 1,860 = 11,712 RMB or approx. $ 1,815 Cdn.
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Congrats Chong!
Really happy to hear it's working out over there (well, except for the Mr. Huo part). Ignoring him, it sounds like you're having a blast. One recommendation though. Forget about Mr. Huo... I'm sure he'll get what's coming to him eventually.
Now enjoy the rest of your stay there and hopefully you'll be back soon enough with your wife.
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Red Book 100, Dinner 5,609, Booze 396, Car RE 600, Door Entry 199, In-law RE 1,200, Apartment Guest RE 440, Apartment Snacks 30, Nephew RE 100, GrandMom RE 300, Wedding Dress 399, hotel room cost for out-of-town guests 800 = 10,173 RMB + wedding pictures 3399 [ which we haven't taken yet ] = 13,572 minus RE received of 1,860 = 11,712 RMB or approx. $ 1,815 Cdn.
+ a lifetime of happiness: priceless
There's some things money can't buy. For everything else there's Mastercard.
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Congradulations Chong and Sunny may you have a long and happy future together.
I was going to write something funny here.But I ddin't think it was appropriate.So you get this one for free.again bro really happy for you and Sunny.May all your sunrises together be real Sunny.
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Congratulations ?? . . . Chong and Sunny. May you have a long and happy life together.
My dear YaYa sends her love and best wishes. She was very upset by the way Mr Huo treated you. She wrote:
I am so surprised the quality of chinese people's story from "Chong", I read it for over three times. That's the real thing I trust, I really think they are too greedy to a foreigner, and it make too much disappointment to a foreigner, this story make me remind a fairy tale, the greedy old women at last from the top-queen, to the bottom-poor, like a dream return to her prototypes of the characters. In fact, the foreigner did so good to the them, Courtesy requires a return of visits received. While the chinese's way of doing thigns entirely had broken the heart of the foreigner.
But I told her that you were full of happiness for the good fortune you had, marrying such a beautiful and wonderful woman, so not to waste her sorrow on you!
Thank you for sharing your happy day with us. I have read everything you have written, like YaYa, three times, and I feel privileged to have shared with you in your happy days.
Best wishes and enjoy the moment. It does not get much better than this!
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Wow, congratulations and I love your photos.
It's good to know about the wedding banquet. I love the idea of the guests taking all the uneaten food home! This is definately an ingrained cultural thing, as Miss Wu took the uneaten McDonalds fries home in a doggie bag :icon_cheesygrin:.
P.S. Sorry about the chickens :fi_lone_ranger::fi_lone_ranger:.
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Getting The Police Certificate
Getting Sunny's Police Certificate clearance for Immigration Canada is a multi-step process. First we visited the Notary Office to get two stamps of approval. Sunny has a high school friend there so we'll bypass the official paper route that'll take a month. She'll be able to get Sunny's certificate within a week and we won't have to pay the admin fee. But before giving her the application, we had to visit the local Public Security Bureau to get Sunny's residential approval stamp. Funny ... to extend my visa, I have to go to the 'PSB' in Jiangmen [ one hour away ] which oversees Kaiping municipality. Then Sunny and I had to go to the Kaiping District office to get her birthplace stamp. At that place, she recognized the two front desk ladies. Sunny met them before at her previous workplace. Front desk staff people are usually rude and robotic. Once they recognized Sunny, they became friendly. However, they wanted to complete the application process to 'save us 200 RMB'. Not necessary since we have our connection. Then we had to go to The Dihai Paichusuo ... the local police station for her district to get their 'stamp'. In Canada, wouldn't we just go to this place alone ??? So we got our 'stamps of approval'.
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No Notary Connection Afterall
So it turns out that Sunny's connection at the Notary Building can only help us with expediting the application time and not with the fee. Sunny and I brought our 2 page application with all the approval stamps to the Notary today. We went to booth # 3. The lady filled out a form and we had to go to booth # 2 to get photocopies of Sunny's residential book ... cost : 84 RMB for another 6 page application. Then we had to go to the bank across the street to pay the notary fee ... cost 1,345 RMB. We wonder how those two ladies could have saved us money if this is the standard app fee. They would have added a service charge hoping that we wouldn't know the grand total of the process ... and thinking that we saved money going through them. Coming back, we were directed to booth # 4 where a lady confirmed the payment.
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Then we had to take the 'textbook' application to booth # 5 for a final check. First of all, there's no Chinese translation of my passport's name. Sunny wrote it down on a paper and they photocopied it. I was directed back to booth # 2 to pay 30 RMB for this. The guy back at booth # 5 then informed Sunny that she needed her Mom & Dad's marriage certificate [ which also shows/proves the number of kids in their family ]. Well, we have to come back with this tomorrow. Estimated wait time is one week for the 'Police Certificate' & 'Proof Of Residence'. I wasn't aware that I needed the latter for Canada's immigration application. Sunny's friend called to say that we could have it in a few days instead of waiting a week. Total cost : 1,459 RMB + English Translation Cost ( TBA )
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We got Sunny's documents today. At the notary, they also did the translation [ cost 240 RMB ]. The total process cost 1,699 RMB or $ 262 Cdn. We have her 'Notarial Certificate Of No Criminal Record', our 'Marriage Certificate', her 'Birth Certificate' and her 'Household Register' ... all notaried by the Kaiping Notary Public Office, Guangdong Province and The People's Republic of China. Next is a trip to Guangzhou for her medical examination and then I can send the application to Immigration Canada.
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Chong, Things are moving along. Best of luck with all of it.
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Chong, you are a go getter. Get her done with and back to Canada! When you are back I'll maybe swing by TO and meet you guys (and take you out for dumplings).
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Yes! Toronto, how about it Chong? Martin too if we can get him. BBU 2010? (Big Brotherhood Union 2010?)
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Yes! Toronto, how about it Chong? Martin too if we can get him. BBU 2010? (Big Brotherhood Union 2010?)
I'm in depending on when that happens to be. I have a feeling it's not going to be before CNY though. :)
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Chong , you know ... I have alway's wished you the same happiness ... I and many other's here share with there found Angel . You had your big downs here with us and to see it come to such a wonderful Marriage for you and Sunny , I can do nothing but smile for you both . May everything else go as well and enjoy the coming year .
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Now the race is on to see which of us gets to bring our wife through Pearson Airport first.
And I am giving my RSVP for the BBU 2010. I'm in!
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Mike, no way. I will be the last. Have not even gotten married it or done visit #1.
Chong: If someone is divorced, does the process on the China side take longer? And if so, how much longer? And how much more should someone expected to pay?
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Regnis , Qing was divorced and all it took was ONE extra Notarized Paper for us and a small Fee for that . I don't see that as much of a problem .
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My bad, I should've been more clear. What if you are divorced as the husband/foreigner? Besides the Certificate of No Impediment for marriage. Is there anything additional for the immigration?
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i think that is all that is needed by the chinese govt
no matter what country you are from. i needed it and
willy needed it. so i think its all the same
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Yes , that's it . If your Wife passed away .. a Death Cert. ( original not a Copy ) is needed .
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There is always the other route, if your living in China for argument's sake. But then you have to be resident in China for 21 days, and then wait another 21 days for the banns being posted at your countries embassy/consulate. So you will have to factor in, a total of 42 days prior to getting married, or should i say registering your marriage to get your little red books.....
David....
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Regnis...I was previously married, and was divorced. The only thing you need is your Single Certificate (Certificate of marriageability). Once you are married in China, the immigration process is the same. There is something on the app that you have to list your previous wife, and how long you were together (dates). If you have children, they will also have to be listed somewhere on the app as well.
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David 50 that is just for you Brits.Us Americans and Janadians can jump off the plane and go down and get the red book withen a couple of hours.As long as we have all the paperwork completed.Ed, Nik Or Arnold can explain it in alot more detail then I can.
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Regnis,
Not to worry about being first or last. Just let the others go first...especially where immigration is involved. Then they can help you when you (or I) find the one...and we won't have to go through the trial and error they went through...
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Max,
Anyone that has all there documentation can marry (in theory straight off the plane) as and when they please, even us Brits lol!!. I was talking about those that are living there or spending an extended period of time there....
If you haven't got a a single certificate, then your not going to be able to be able to jump off the plane and marry!!! As i said above, in that case you need to be in the country for a minimum of 21 days to go the other route. I can't qualify the other 21 days, as your system maybe different, but i'm pretty sure some time lapse will be involved!!
David.....
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from my experience with willy it is quite different for british people
they even just talk to you in the reception room willy had to ask for a private room
to air his concerns hahhahaha (skeletons)