China Romance
General Discussion and Useful Links => Newbies Corner => Topic started by: Smaug on January 24, 2013, 01:05:33 pm
-
...and I'm running into cultural problems all the time. :(
I posted this in the Chinadaily forum, but this place seems a lot closer to what I'm looking for.
----------
I'm an American guy, 36. My girlfriend is Chinese, 39. She's a divorced mom of a 9 year old boy. According to that other thread, she's a "left-over" woman. (such a mean thing to say about a human being!) We work for the same company. I'm still in America, she's still in China. She's very private about her personal life, and especially about me. One day, she will move here with her son to be with me. For now, we text chat every day, and have a phone call once or twice a week.
We have a huge difference in opinion about jealousy. Today, she told me a big boss in our company said he heard she was a single mom, said he respected her for raising her boy all alone. Then offered to help find her a boyfriend. She laughed and said "OK." Not taking it seriously.
I was pretty insulted, I asked her: "Why didn't you just tell him that you are not single, but thanks anyway for the offer of help?"
She said: "Aren't you happy that people like me?"
I said: "Yes. Professionally, and in a friendly manner. But when they start getting involved in your love life, I don't like it any more."
She said: "You should be happy that people like your girlfriend. If you are jealous about this, it shows that you lack faith in me."
I said: "The jealousy, I cannot control. I do trust you to do the right thing when interested men approach you. But I don't like the fact that you are not trying to discourage them from approaching you, and that you let people continue to think you are single."
She said: "Am I supposed announce to the world that I have a boyfriend then?"
I said: "No, but when it comes up that you are single, you could at least correct them, and CERTAINLY not accept offers to help you find a boyfriend! Otherwise, what am I, a ghost?"
She then told me that if I wanted to go out with a female colleague, she would not have a problem with it, as she trusts me absolutely. But that if I were unfaithful, she would never forgive me. (she didn't mention how she would feel if I invited her to my hotel room when she was drunk and sad and had a crush on me....)
She said she was very very sad and hurt, and she will go to bed. (it was 1 AM for her)
To me, this idea of denying one's jealousy because I have so much trust in her faithfulness is almost insane. It sounds like something from an idealistic book on love, not reality.
I told her that if our situations were reversed, she would probably be jealous, no matter WHAT she is saying now. She said absolutely not, because she trusts me. I sugggested that unless she is VERY different from every other woman who has ever been interested in me, I doubt it. Jealousy is illogical. It comes from love (or maybe insecurity?) from the person who is jealous, but to the other person, it is just a nuisance.
I hope there are a lot of English-speaking Chinese people who can tell me whether this is cultural, and I should get used to it, or if it is a mater of personal opinion only.
Now, we are both wondering if there are too many cultural differences for our relationship to succeed? Or is this not cultural at all, and just a matter of our personal viewpoint?
-
Hi welcome.
Not sure what to comment on your case. Sure some other more knowledge soon will cone around and share their opinion.
Nice to meet you.
-
Jealosy....the Green Eyed Monster....the relationship Killer......
Whichever way you cut the cake, jealousy on the part of either of you is a demonstration of insecurity, mistrust and is dangerous !
If you have REAL affection (love ???) for this Woman then jealousy does not figure in the equation because you should absolutely know and trust that she may say and do many things in a local situational way that appear weird....but you also know that she will be true to your relationship. If the Boss jokingly asks if he can find you a boyfriend...of course you say OK....thats how to get along good with the Boss !!, but it does not mean she is actively looking for another Man. Even if she was, it is something you cant control, and if she was looking, than you dont have a relationship worth much in the first place.
So let her do her thing. You cannot control her every moment, you cannot dictate how she lives her life. If you try to do so then you have a hollow shell of a relationship.
The process of learning to trust your partner and eliminate jealousy is not cultural...it is situational across any cultures.
You gotta deal with insecurity before you move forward.
-
OK, thanks David. I'll work on it.
-
I think Shaun had a good question on the other thread.Have you ben to China? Have you met the lady face to face ?.If your answear to either of these questions with a no.Then the lady is under no obligation to think of you as a boyfriend.In her mind you are still just a prospect.How long have you two ben doing the phone calls and the texting? The longer you Wait.The harder it is to make this kind of relationship work.If you have ben doing the phone calls and text.For more then 3 months.I would say it is time to get on the plane.And show the lady what you are about.
Rule # 1 different country different customs. Just because you are a man.And from the west doesn't mean that you are right.Your lady has over 5,000 years of customs and history.And at this point and time in your relationship.This is all she has ever experienced.So she is going to act just like a Chinese woman.
Rule # 2 Maxx's 24 hour rule live it love it learn it. 24 hour rule no matter what crazy thing your girlfriend/wife says to you.Writes to you.Do not respond.Bring the problem here.Post it here.somebody on this forum has ben threw the same situation.And knows the correct response.9 out of 10 times you and your lady are having a miss communication.Ore a difference in customs or culture.If you will Waite 24 hours it gives you a chance to figure out what the lady is trying to tell you.It also gives the members here a chance to respond.
If you choose to ignore Maxx's 24 hour rule.You can watch your relationship with the lady go up in flames and never no why.
I will try to tell you what your lady is thinking.Ok you have ben calling,texting.Witch still makes you a prospective boyfriend/husband.There has ben no commitment on your side if you haven't made the trip.The trip shows the lady that you are serious.The reason your lady is still looking is because people have made promises to her before.And the promises were never kept.
If you want to continue with this relationship.Learn a little Chinese customs and culture.And read everything you can about China and it's people.The good stuff along with the bad stuff.These ladies are not stamped out of a mold in a factory in Beijing.Each one has her own thoughts and feelings about people and life in general.And remember no matter what anybody ever tells you.These woman are not subservient.And this journey is not for everyone.
Maxx
-
Hehe Max, yes, I'll keep your rule in mind.
But do you know what is hard? When one of us is upset, the other can tell, even through chat. So if she's upset me, she'll know
Yes, I've been to China to see her. Stayed with her for 3 weeks. We often refer to each other as boyfriend/girlfriend, lover, etc.
-
It is very easy to create a mountain out of a molehill but it it extremely difficult to break down that mountain once built.
You should be pleased that your lady tells you such things. But from your reaction it is likely that she may keep these things from you in future and this starts the spiral of distrust.
Insecurity soon breeds mistrust.
Sit back for 24 hours and think and then put this in the past.
Willy
-
Will do, Willy. Just missed a connection with her at work. She's too busy for a chat this morning. :( Tomorrow morning, which will be 24 hours, (her night) we'll chat again.
-
She said: "Am I supposed announce to the world that I have a boyfriend then?"
I said: "No, but when it comes up that you are single, you could at least correct them, and CERTAINLY not accept offers to help you find a boyfriend! Otherwise, what am I, a ghost?"
Hi Smaug, welcome to the site. Would you mind that I share my opinion directly?
Why would she told you that story, to make you jealous? Because she is still not sure about your relationship. Did you two called each other as lover? That's not good for the two who have plan to get marry. It sounds like the two who just want to play the game.
She is a single mom at the middle age. I don't think a lover/ bf is someone that she is looking for. She needs a husband to take care she and her son.
Why didn't you say YES when she said: "Am I supposed announce to the world that I have a boyfriend then?" Obviously NO was not the answer which she wanted. She is single now. She can do anything she wants without thinking abour your emotion unless you give her a worthy offer of marriage.
Are you ready? ;)
-
I've posted this on another thread, but here also won't hurt..
Maybe its also what Sunny is saying :)
From:
http://laowaiink.blogspot.co.nz/2008/04/chinese-girls-heart-tread-softy.html (http://laowaiink.blogspot.co.nz/2008/04/chinese-girls-heart-tread-softy.html)
A Chinese Girl's Heart: Tread Softly
Of course this title is misleading. There are tons of Chinese girls that are as much players as the guys and break hearts without a second thought. However, at least in my experience, most Chinese girls are very affectionate and are eager, sometimes too eager, to give their love to any man that is sweet and kind to them, especially when they are young.
For the majority of Chinese girls, there is no such thing as a casual relationship. A Chinese girl usually interprets any intimate behavior, such as gifts, romantic messages, sex, etc., as indications of long-term relationship potential, and the fact of the matter is that most Chinese girls are looking for a man to take care of them and they are quick to latch on to such possibilities. I don't mean this in a condescending or diminutive way; I'm just stating my observations after years of field research :-). Chinese girls are extremely affectionate and usually very loyal, because their man is providing them with stability and security. In return she gives her affection, her body, and her fidelity. Whether this is "love" is another discussion, but it is this "emotional transaction" that leads to so many broken hearts among Chinese girls.
Everyone has fanciful illusions of fairy tale love stories but of course reality is a harsh teacher. A man can throw out words and money and attention willy-nilly but a girl's affection is her precious possession, and when it is tossed aside after being used up, it can be devastating. Chinese girls are very naive about love and romance, in spite of it being largely absent from Chinese culture. Yet a heart is a heart, and love is an incredible treasure, and when it is placed in the hands of someone who recognizes just how special it is, that heart will sing. But the sad truth is, far too many hearts grow cold and dim as the beautiful dream withers and dies, leaving a life that is biologically satisfied but lacking any real purpose.
-
Hi Smaug, welcome to the site. Would you mind that I share my opinion directly?
Why would she told you that story, to make you jealous?
That was a point she also made with me, Sunny, and a good point too. She called them "Holiday Words" said during drinking, between her and her boss. Said they were probably forgotten by him as soon as he left the room.
Because she is still not sure about your relationship. Did you two called each other as lover? That's not good for the two who have plan to get marry. It sounds like the two who just want to play the game.
This is a language issue. She used the word lover long ago in context that I would have said 'husband' or 'mate.' I don't think she knew the difference.
She is a single mom at the middle age. I don't think a lover/ bf is someone that she is looking for. She needs a husband to take care she and her son.
Agree.
Why didn't you say YES when she said: "Am I supposed announce to the world that I have a boyfriend then?" Obviously NO was not the answer which she wanted. She is single now.
She said something similar before, and I DID answer 'yes.' She said: "No, it is not the time. We do not announce everything in our personal lives here like you seem to in the west. When I leave, I will decide who needs to know the whole truth, and the rest will just know I'm leaving for personal reasons, to stay at home for a while." I suggested she be fully open with her boss, as a letter of recommendation from her could really help her here. (we work for the same company)
She can do anything she wants without thinking abour your emotion unless you give her a worthy offer of marriage.
Are you ready? ;)
Yes. We've talked about marriage. As soon as we are both convinced for sure (by living with each other for a while) that we are a good permanent match, we will be married.
Thanks for your open and honest comments.
-
I've posted this on another thread, but here also won't hurt..
Maybe its also what Sunny is saying :)
Thanks David. I read it, and I will read it again.
We don't consider ours a 'casual relationship', in the western sense. :)
-
It's a common thing in China regarding match-making. That's how I met my wife while vacationing there. When dealing with elder matchmakers, there's an exchange of money if the relationship results in a marriage. My sister, who's over 50 years old, was offered $ 70,000 Cdn to marry a Chinese resident just so he could get a Canadian residency card.
But in your case involving your GF, it's a common conversation among friends/co-workers saying ... "Oh, I'll find you a nice BF/GF" ... it's just water cooler break talk. He wasn't serious IMHO.
-
Please don't ever be jealous. Or, if you feel jealously, don't show it, whatever you do. Take your time to think about the situation, and in the meantime, be positive and pleasant towards her. She wants you to be confident in the man you are, and that means, no jealously not ever.
I experienced similar situation with my Chinese girlfriend, but then I realized, she was only wanting to show me that "people like her", and that is sort of a way for her to express to me, that I should like her also. Or something to that effect, you know? It has nothing at all to do with her 'playing games' or 'trying to make you jealous'. I say that because I know from study and research and learning about her culture, that 'playing games' is just not a part of the Asian culture. Instead, they cherish family, and marriage, greatly. Therefore, knowing that fact, I highly doubt that she was trying to make you jealous.
Think about this also; Asian women are, by far, the most loyal, loving, and family-oriented women in the world. Their great culture extends back 5,000+ years. And it has been a very, very successful culture, and produced a large population, and has embraced so many of the great qualities of life. So don't be jealous. . Trust her.
-
One thing I have learn here living in the community. Chinese woman love to make other jealous. They want to say what they have got or are getting. I hear it all the time. The ladies seat outside our block in the complex. They want you to hear what they want you to hear or often it is what they think you want to hear!
'My husband has bought me this or that. My husband is so good to me. We are getting a new car, home, furniture, clothes. My daughter has married a good man, WITH money.' It goes on and on.
There is nothing more that an average Chinese woman likes to do than to make someone a little jealous or to announce what benefits they have accrued.. Especially when it comes to foreigners. We are not automatically Gods Gift to them and they have to regularly enthuse about how well they have done by marrying a foreigner.
Chinese woman are down to earth. You marry a Chinese woman and things go wrong financially and love will take a back seat as many on this forum before us have found to their cost.
When I came to China no one went out with me because I was a young good looking virile man. They went out with me because they a) wanted to be seen with a foreigner b) The wanted to see what I could do for them or c) I was possibly the route to a new life.
I have never kidded my self that if given a choice my now wife would have rather have married a Chinese man. But she did not, she married me and I am now indulged like I have never been so indulged in the life. I love her and I believe her when she says that she loves me. But will accept that if financial constraints arrive that I could be toast.
I have drastically changed her life and I know she tells all and sundry this. I care not a jot. She can continue doing so for the rest of my life and when I am gone everything I have will be hers.
Unless something drastic happens to the world finances I will always be able to provide for her in such a way that she would never have otherwise achieved.
Willy
-
Yes I also know all about the money thing. The best friend of the girl I will see today got married to a rich HK man and their wedding ceremony in a hugely expensive house with a pool etc. etc. etc. was a massive show of status. As is marrying a rich HK man and getting HK residency of course!
Well I'm under no impressions that my girl likes money - she's told me that herself.
Not everyone here is poor. I once dated a lady with a million dollars in her bank account. Funny thing is she still wasn't satisfied with her wealth, so she went on to rip off her employer.
This time round I've also dated a couple of fairly wealthy ladies. They're looking for love, not money. I guess Chinese guys are scared of these very, very smart ladies.
Maybe they're after Western passports also. But I've never met anyone in Guangzhou who's talked that much about moving away from China. And I'm perfectly happy to stay around here for a while. Soon the Pearl River delta will be one enormous city with a population greater than that in the UK.
-
I think the Chinese men want a woman they can control. And the successful ones don't
need to depend on a man.
And then there are the ones who want to know what you can do for them. But as I said
it takes a lot of time and commitment by both. We are not their answer to salvation unless
she is from a dirt poor family. Then they will sacrifice the love for the marriage.
Unfortunately some who come here have neither the time nor commitment to make a relationship work.
I have met a lot of successful women here. Even successful ones lose husbands to the younger ones but then they do have the money to satisfy their 'womanly needs'. 8) For some woman in the 35 - 55 age group that is enough for them.
Willy
-
Smaug,
I understand your feelings. But what I find somewhat strange is that it is mostly Chinese women who are known to be VERY jealous... I had a Chinese GF which I had to leave bc of bad temper AND jeaolousy. She begged to take her back but i refused. What I can say is that it made me feel very uncomfortable when I was with her at the end... I just had to always "analyse" what I was doing to keep her calm and secured. Just an example, I was on a cruise with her and stood up to go ask the lady who was serving us to bring me extra cans of pop to bring to the cabin. She thought I was making a pass to that waitress!! :(
The relationship killer indead!