China Romance
General Discussion and Useful Links => Ask An Experienced Member => Topic started by: Martin on June 07, 2009, 12:34:13 pm
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OK, an issue has developed between a couple of the brothers, and I want to look at this issue right away.
It turns out, that two brothers were writing to the same lady. And the lady was writing both guys back. Now, one of them has suggested that either the agency or the translator are to blame for this. And I have done some thinking on this issue.
How many men out there are writing to multiple women? Who is to blame for this? Since when do we hold exclusive rights on a certain woman? While I find the behaviour distasteful, I can't see that the agency has done anything wrong. And if the translator did the job that she was paid to do, then how did she do wrong?
I was told that in one letter, the translator left a ps at the end of the letter, letting him know that he need not worry, as the lady loved him. Is this indicative of bad behaviour? Could it not be true that the lady does love him, and the translator was easing his mind on the issue? I fail to see where the agency or translator are at wrong, for a woman choosing to write to more than one man.
Is this not the same game that a lot of men play? Or are we such a male dominated society, that what is good for the man, is not acceptable for the lady to do? The person that is to blame is the lady. She should have advised both men that she was writing to others. At least, they would have known what they were getting in to. Is it the job of the agency/translator to do this for them? And if that answer is yes, then it is also up to these same agencies/translators to advise the woman if the man she is writing to is doing the same.
Just my thoughts.
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http://www.chnlove.info/showthread.php?tid=59
This is a good reason we have the list of people and the ladies they are writing. It's a shame a relationship seemed to progress quite far before the truth was discovered. As it is, I see only one of of the two involved in this list. Guys, it's in your own best interest.:-/
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I can't say I agree with the list since it only appeals to the insecurity of dating over the internet. It's like asking how many men she's slept with. Do you really need to know? What purpose does it serve?
Win her heart with genuine affection and open understanding. Hedging your bets only gets someone hurt. Maybe even you.
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Martin , you took my words right out of my Mind . This is what I have told Shane in a PM , to stay calm and it's not the end of the world . I know this can be a great shock of course , but like you said , are we different than the Lady's ? We come here with our own rule's of beheaviour . Some Man think it the same as back home , seeing your GF talking to another Man all lovey dovey , when it's a completely different situation here . Guess OUR western way of thinking will never change ?
Ed , I must agree with you on that one . Good answer .
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Well said Robert. Thinking back, I had asked Zhifang if she was writing to anyone else. As it was, she was not writing to anyone. She admitted that she had written others in the past, but for whatever reason, things did not work out with these men.
The reason i posted this, is that one of the men involved had contacted me, and was quite upset. This I can understand. The part I did not understand was where he was saying this was all a scam, and the agency/translator was to blame. He was also going to demand a full refund. I will not comment on the refund part, but calling the agency/translator bad I don't think is quite fair, as I feel this was the ladies doing.
And since I am on the subject, I will also bring up that this is the same agency that I dealt with in meeting Zhifang. The translator was also my translator, and someone I consider a friend. I wanted to mention this, so it does not come out later, and have people question my motives. I have tried to look at this situation in an objective way, and let my feelings stay out of this all. I don't want people coming after me later, and saying I was taking sides.
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Lets get the facts straight. They were in communication in letters and webcam. SHE made promises and lead him on to believe he was the one. There were marriage plans being made. If she wasn't sure she shouldn't have lead him down that path.
The translator left notes that she loved only him. So she was in on it, knowing there were others. She should be horsewhipped. Leading him on as well for what a few bucks? Build a guy up to pull the rug out from underneath him? It's not right.
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Thanks Mike , your version backs up what Ed said in a more detailed way . A list of those kind of Women , is really not going to help anybody . It is up to the Man and the Woman he is writing to , to farther the relationship , ones the Translator has been removed from inserting to the Letter's written . This can take some time of course , till we have build a relationship strong enough to stand on it's own .
I have seen somewhere , that he only known her for one month ? Here is the problem ... not the Agency or Translator . To be Engaged to Marry after one month , no ... this does not end in a good way , most of the time if not all the time .
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The translator left notes that she loved only him.
As far as I know, the translator left one note...and for all we know, this could be true. When was the post script written? Was the lady in question writing to two people at the same time? Or did she start to write the second person when the first disappeared for awhile?
SHE made promises and lead him on to believe he was the one.
This brings me back to what I said before, the lady was in the wrong. She should have said something. But how many men that are writing to multiple women come out and tell their ladies they are not the only one being written to? How many of these letters might also be filled with love? I do not feel that this is an agency scam in any way. This lady was wrong, I will admit to this. But no more wrong than a lot of other players on chnlove.
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Well, I guess it is time for me to put my 2 cents worth in. As I am the "other man" it seems in this instance. first let me say that I do not post a lot on the forum. I have a few posts, but I am the type of person that kind of looks on until I need advise or have something to say. I hope I did the right thing when i contacted Shane. I have talked with him and he seems to have no ill will towards me. I hope not. It was not my intention to screw things up for him. I just thought he should know. (did I do wrong?) It all started when I saw his post that he was talking with someone on webcam last night. So out of curiousity more than anything, I searched a few of the posts and saw who he was talking about. So, I thought, "hmmmm....she is going to talk with me tonight also."
So I didn't say anything to her about another guy. I did ask her if she had made any decisions about who she was wanting to be with or talking with anyone else. She said no you are the only one. and when are you coming to see me. I told her maybe later this year. Let me be clear, I did not have nearly as much invested with this lady as Shane had. I am only out a few letters and a couple Harley Davidson shirts I sent her for her birthday. Then when I saw Shane's post that he was getting married in July, I thought it best to tell him. The thing is, we exchanged a few letters, then I stopped writing because I wondered about it, (as I am several years older than she), then I received a letter about a week ago asking what happened I stopped writing, she was really interested. And as far as the translator goes (I understand she comes highly recommended) she was right there with her while she was doing the webcam. So she had to know the situation. Matter of fact I talked to her on the phone to set it up. Only I was given 2 different names for her. I asked about that also, and was told she goes by both names.
So, to sum it up, yes the lady is mostly to blame. But I have to say some of it goes to the translator as well. Perhaps the agency didn't know about all this. I wondered why the translator went to the lady's home to do the webcams instead of at the agency. Maybe nothing hinky there, but I did wonder about it. Now here is my dilema.....I was talking with 2 ladies at this same agency. Now how do I treat the other. All letters go through the translator. So how do I know what gets to the lady. I wrote the other lady this morning and told her the situation. And yes I told her I was in touch with other ladies. (but at least I have not been engaged or promised to another while writing) I never come right out and say "oh yeah, by the way I am writing 10 other women, how you doing today" but if they ask I tell them the truth.
So, anyway, thats my part of the story. I hope I am not the bad guy here. I would want to know if it happened to me. And also I did not post who I was talking with because I was talking to 2 or 3 and nobody had committed to anything. I am not one to fall in love after 5 or 6 letters.
Don
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OK...since I am also friends with the translator, let me mention two points you asked about. She uses two names...like many Chinese people do. One is her English name, and the other is the Chinese name.
As far as why it was done at the ladies house and not the agency...I will give you my best guess. Sunday is her day off. As far as I know, the agency is closed on Sunday. So I am guessing that this is why it was done at her house. I am also not sure why this would be part of the issue.
So why are we expecting the translator to police the women, when nobody is policing us?
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Martin, I know the translator is a friend of yours, but for the record neither name was Chinese. The part about being Sunday and a day off is probably right
Don
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Martin, I know the translator is a friend of yours, but for the record neither name was Chinese.
Then I stand corrected on that part. Sunday is her day off though. I certainly know that one well...i hated Sundays, because I knew I would get no letter.
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"I am pretty sure that after 3 months of exchanging letters, and I am completely certain that after 6 months of exchanging letters, my Lady and I were writing only to each other
it takes time for a relationship to build up, and in my case months ...
we became exclusive in several steps .... first of all I hid my profile, and the translator informed her, she mentioned it in a letter, wanted to know if she was the reason?"
Ditto Mike
I have to say to both Martin and Vince, although what I think (I will not say) I have to agree that what both of you have said to some degree, you both have some merits...........And must not get into any sort of arguement or bad feelings, we are all here to 'find' the one we want to spend the rest of our life's with. This is supposed to be a Brotherhood where we 'HELP EACH OTHER', not snipe and grunt at each other when things go bad....
Zook,
You were right to inform Shane about what you knew, as you have said, you would hope that if it happens to you, the other person would tell you. I am sure that Shane does not hold any ill feelings towards you, as can only be expected, he IS HURT, and feels BETRAYED, who wouldn't in his shoes..And by the way, well done for fezzing up ....Read the signature
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look I worte one woman and only one 25 emfs later i find out . that not only did wendy/xia do this but apple knew all along. apple posted more than once that i should not worry wendy loves me.. MORE THAN ONCE cause i often express my concrens mostly early on about my distrust in thsi method, now i see i was dead on.. guys play with your hearts if you must.. i will not go down this road again. I know i was played buy apple the traslator and by the girl. I do not balme anyone for talking to her or her talking to them
I blame the fack 50 emf later i found out i was being toyed with
and she is the only woman i ever wrote here
so i can not be placed in the "how many have yu written" i thought i ad something.. actually i did have something.. a kick in the nuts .. just waiting to strike it hit me today
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apple posted more than once that i should not worry wendy loves me
So...she was lying? You know for certain that Wendy doesn't love you? You said that Wendy agreed to marry you...would this not indicate that she loves you? So how was "Apple" doing wrong in this situation. She was doing her job...she is a translator...and this is what she did. When did you ask Wendy how many others she was writing to? Why do you expect Apple to police Wendy on your behalf?
Does this situation suck? Absolutely! Who is to blame? In my opinion...Wendy!
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i will GLADLY share all the letters we have written
if you like. since you did not hear the phone call i made to apple, where she took blame and said the agency is not at fault..
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Scott Rob and others, I am not up to an argument with any here. But fact is fact. It hit home hearing this. I know I have wrote of this before so I'm not going nuts. Wrote a woman for like a year and all the while she kept saying I was the only one. We didn't make wedding plans but we were suppose to be committed, only to find she was just waiting for the first guy to make it there. Like it was a race of who crossed the finish line first. After realizing it I'm glad I didn't win the race.
I didn't know the translator or have any communication with them. Just the girl I wrote. At the time I had a hard time trying to figure the bad phone calls and hang ups.
So I know Shane's feelings in this and it's not right no matter what anyone says. If I'm being honest and open she should do the same.
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doesnt matter my letter to wendy i am DONE turn me over before i burn. I thought this was a support group not a defend the agency's and chnlove.. oh yeah he knows her BIG differance wonder if he gets a kick back too.. I know he loyalty is with his friend who was at his wedding apple its easy to see in his posts.
here is my last post its the letter I wrote to wendy ending it. If you want the history showing me her intentions while still talking to others after saying she wasnt i will post them. other than that im done.
Dear Xia,
I am totally upset now. I will post what I recieved fromk your OTHER web meeting last night BEFORE MINE. why lie to me. Why mislead me. I am done with ChnLove and with an attempt to find my mate ..maybe you should know someone else is also done with you the person that sent me this letter i will post also no longer will write.He is a very nice man and i talked to him on the phone this morning when i woke.. as he gave his number to me. I am NOT happy you would mislead me and lie to me and break my heart this way. I love you i probably always will. But the distrust I now have will not allow me to persue this any further. Why this would happen either by you or apple is totaly out of line. you both should be ashamed.
I hope you enjoy toying with Men lives and emotions it sheds a whole new light on everything.
I am done write me if you want.. but not through this agency or apple after being lied to i do not want any contact with china love as i will call and write to express my displeasure with this action.
Take care have a great life I hope you find hapiness.
I hope you dont destroy other men as you have done me.
Hi Shane,
I just by chance last night saw you were going to have a webcam visit. So out of curiosity I searched the forum and saw who you were talking to. And then when you stated her name on the shout portion on the forum and what time I was sure. You should know that I had a webcam visit with Wendy just before you did last night. She told me I was the only one she was talking to. I can email you her last letter to me if you want. I hated to tell you this, but thought you should know. I don't know where you are from, but if you want to call me to ask any questions, my cell number is 540-798-XXXX. I live in virginia in the US.
I'll probably post that there is a little underhandedness going on with the
Shenzhen Oriental LOve Consulting Co. But I wanted you to know about this first. I knew she was going to talk with you before I did the webcam, but did not say anything. Except to ask if she had come to any decisions as to who she was picking. And I watched her online ID when she was talking with you. She talked to you from about 10:05pm or so my time until about 10:37pm. About the same length of time she talked with me.Anyway, I'm sorry, I will not contact her again unless it is to confront her on this issue.
thanks for tearing me to pieces
Is this love for another ?
Was yours now lost and alone
Shane
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Shane.. Its clear you have been hurt bad and for that i send you my condolences , if that happened to me i would be as upset as you.
You are the injured party of that there is no doubt , Clearly Xia's actions have caused this , some men do it to the women , clearly some women do it to the men , i suppose its like a 'insurance policy' if one relation doesnt work to plan theres a backup one.
As for the translator .. I suppose Xia is her customer and so she works for her as you are the customer of chnlove , so the translator should just say whatever the lady wants to say and to whoever she wants to say it to , BUT if the translator sends seperate notes / comunications well thats a bit different as they are then acting with independance.
I can't say much to make you feel better , but this is a forum of information and support .. so you have mine
best wishes , maybe if you feel you want to try finding your partner this way again you will have more luck ,
UKM
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Here is my 2 cents ...
Yes, it definitely hurts to be betrayed … but are you really? What commitments have you really made to her? Even if you have, how can she be sure? This is the way of the “game” unfortunately. Also, I don't pretend to understand them, but understand that they might feel quite helpless … cause there really isn’t much they could do, except to maybe use some very strong words to hopefully get one of us to go and visit them and maybe something will happen, meanwhile just passively waiting and waiting, all the while not getting any younger!
Many of you especially Mike had taught me well! I am going to China to meet up with this girl without any preconditions at all. I know for a fact that either she or her translator was writing to others while she was singing me all the sweet words, before. As for now, I don’t know and I don’t want to know.
All I can say is that there are two ways to go about this, either you take the time to let the relationship strengthen over time (if she is also willing to wait), or you go over there to meet with her – with no expectation of the outcome – to find out for the both of you if either parity is right for each other and what commitments can be made. I chose to take the 2nd option.
-W-
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One more thing, I was like you, I hid my profile from the first EMF I got back from her, and I have never written to anyone else either. It sucks to have to go through this, but if you really like her, this may simply be part of the journey ...
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oh shit forgot to post my complaint letter to chnlove here it is
From: shane mcdonald
To: Chnlove Customer Care
Date: 07 Jun, 2009 GMT
I knew better i want a refund i was lied to led on and betrayed .. is the only objective to steal as much from men as they can.I mean leading us on chartging us for emfs, I think i am done .. the agencys your translators or the girls have broken me into pieces. My profile says NO GAMES
yet i was played like a harp. please read all my emfs look into this as i also have the cell numbers which were given by another man for apple the translater and the girl i thought was mine. This is a game playing with emotions im destroyed .. in love and mislead to get there. toying with men isnt nice
I feel like a pawn in a game and my head was taken off.
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Shane, you have my sympathy. I think having a good break from all this would be a good idea. Sometimes this strange and very serious game we play here becomes the cause of a great deal of sadness and upset. I can only suggest, speaking from experience, that now is a time to attend to the other parts of your life, to catch up with good friends you have perhaps neglected, your work or pastimes you enjoy. There is no quick and easy way of getting over an experience like that.
I have had something very similar to what you have gone through, and the only thing to keep in mind is that the pain passes. Think about all the women you have loved and lost over the years. While at the time you may really want to throw yourself off a very tall building, this feeling passes. And after months, even years, you wonder to yourself what all the fuss was about.
Take care of yourself.
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I feel for you, my friend. I expect most of us here have been turn over by women at some point,so your in good company.Including Martin.
Given time and a little perspective you may come to a different conclusion than you have at the moment. So pick yourself up,dust yourself off and start all over again. Dreams still out there,don't give up!
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has anyone stopped to think about how she feels? What she's thinking?
We're only getting half the story and she has no voice. I understand Shane may feel betrayed in this relationship but has anyone thought that there's more to it?
Shane, I can understand how you feel but I think you should stop the repetative posts saying the same thing and lose the drama-queen act. We got the point already.
We're a support group. Our purpose is to support one another and promote resolution of confusion and encourage the venture.
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We will " NOT tolerate bad language in our Forum of ANY kind .
Shane , as a memeber of this Forum of over 150 member's , you will get all angle's of a problem facing one of our member's . So please kindly ( even under your circumstanes ) do not attack and make use of foul language . This will not only loose your support of most member's but also the respect . Remember , we here to listen , help , support ...even if it's not to your liking , that's because you will not have a 150 Guy's thinking the same as you want them to think . As I have told you before , this should make you stronger , not take you down any lower then what it is already .
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fair enough arnold i'll curb that language but if im attacked .. dont expect me to sit on my hands
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Under Admin. order , Shane will be Banned for one day to cool off .
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This will likely serve more than one.
Thanks Arnold.
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thanks for tearing me to pieces
Is this love for another ?
Was yours now lost and alone
Shane
Here's a song for you, Shane, something for you to sing as you walk away something that didn't work out - the Johnny Cash song, "Understand Your Man":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipjaLMd8TqM
And here are the words:
Don’t call my name out your window, I’m leavin'
I won’t even turn my head.
Don’t send your kinfolk to give me no talkin'
I’ll be gone, like I said.
You’d just say the same old things
That you be sayin' all along,
Just lay there in your bed and keep your mouth shut,
Till I’m gone.
Don’t give me that old familiar cryin cussin' moan
Understand your man
I'm tired of you bad mouthing
Understand your man
You can give my other suit to the Salvation Army,
And everything else I leave behind --
I ain’t takin' nothin' that’ll slow down my travelin’
While i'm untangeling my mind.
I ain't gonna repeat, what i said anymore
While i'm breathing air that ain't been breathed before.
I'll be as gone as a wild goose in winter
Then you'll understand your man
Meditate on it!
Understand your man
You hear me talking?
Understand your man
You remember what i told you?
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There are many honest women that use this site. If you are still interested in meeting someone, there is someone out there for you. But it is up to you Shane.
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nah man I am done.. I want no part of this again.. the taste it has left in my mouth is aweful. after the yahoo i showed you. Its quite clear trust will almost be non exsistant. And for that I see no reason to. I am just waiting until chnlove does there thing before i walk away with my tail between my legs
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nah man I am done.. I want no part of this again.. the taste it has left in my mouth is aweful. after the yahoo i showed you. Its quite clear trust will almost be non exsistant. And for that I see no reason to. I am just waiting until chnlove does there thing before i walk away with my tail between my legs
Fair enough. But change your mind if you like. Sometimes I think to myself I'm going to have nothing further to do with my dear woman. But then after a good night's sleep I wake up in the morning and think to myself, what the hell, I'll give it another go *laughs*
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Shane,
I see you are in Georgia. I live near Augusta. If you care to talk over a cup of coffee I'll see what I can do. It depends how far away you are. If you want to communicate you can contact me at shaundi@gmail.com
Shaun
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Shane, I see where you are coming from yet I feel you are making a mistake. Danny is right tommorrow is another day. This thing of ours is a very complicated thing. Things happen and you can't let the negative things in life overshadow the good things yet to come. Dude, I've been lead down the path from more than my share of dishonest people on here yet will not call it quits. I think in your case time will determine how things play out. Give yourself some breathing room, back off, leave the forum to sort things out and then decide if you can do it or not in the future. If you want horror stories read my posts from the last couple of months. I'm not giving up until I stop breathing. Stakes are too high. Yes, it is an uphill battle sometimes on an icy hill. Figure it this way, if you get it right the next 40 to 50 yrs will be the greatest moments of your life. Big chances, big rewards. Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger in life. Sometimes negative things happen so you can better appreciate the good things when they come along.
China Shark Mike
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Yes Michael , and he will not make this trip alone . He hasn't lost us yet .
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I'm done fella's.
No way in this life I open myself up to all of this again.
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Can't blame you for feeling like that Shane , but if you change your mind let us know mate !
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Getting hurt... sucks. There are no words for it, and I'm sorry that it happened to you Shane. We're all here for you. I know it's cheesy, but the saying "Whether you think you can, or you think you can't - you're right" is true. Well, except for thinking something ludicrous like "I can fly by flapping my arms"... because... well... some things even evolution can't help us with right now.
But...
The choice is yours. Close up forever or keep an open mind. To say "never" is a really big word. Never is a long time to hold onto pain. Never is a long time to keep your guard up. Love is a double-edged sword and sometimes it hurts, really hurts, but sometimes it's the one thing that can truly enrich your life, the one thing you are missing that nothing else can come close to replacing. If you come back, any time, we're all here to support you and cheer you on.
There is no perfect person, we all have flaws, and it appears that ladies (and men) the world over have their own agendas. There are no excuses for what happened, and some things went down that were not good at all by anyone's standards; however, only you can make the choice to dust yourself off and be yourself freely. Best of luck to you man!
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Love is a double-edged sword and sometimes it hurts, really hurts, but sometimes it's the one thing that can truly enrich your life, the one thing you are missing that nothing else can come close to replacing.
Your so right Chi.
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Shane I feel for you brother... but take a break and let your heart heal. There really are honest good wonderful women at Chnlove that are searching for a husband just as you were searching for a wife. Don't let what happened to you with this one woman ruin that.
Also I think I agree with what some others have already said here. Perhaps Xia really did love you... Perhaps she was trying to cover all her bases because other relationships she had hopes for in the past through Chnlove did not work out as she had hoped? Maybe she was torn about how to proceed? We all have seen forum posts about men who were writing to several women and were certainly torn about what to do. The women don't even have a forum to ask these kind of questions. So maybe Xia really did love you. Maybe Xia told Apple she loved you... and perhaps Apple believed what she was saying.
So my two cents are... I think Xia is the person at fault. Though we don't completely know what she was thinking or doing. I applaud those that came forward and gave you the heads up Shane. And I think you need to take some time, let your heart heal and think about this again. I honestly believe that this method can lead to you having a loving and wonderful wife. Anyway I wish you the best Shane.
Big Dave
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not trying to stir this up again but she said it twice
and admittly he stopped writing her and she wrote him on my 2nd day away asking why he quit
needless to say this solves nothing its a problem others will also face
can we kill this here let it die sont you think keeping this going continues to eat at me
either way i lost
i lost her.. and i lost money.. i couldnt have lost more unless Don had not told me thank goodness he came through and let me know what was going on.. I still tell you now I love this girl.. even if she was wrong. Im hurt and trying to move on
kill this now please so i dont keep getting beat in the head
shane
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Shane ... that was my purpose in starting that thread of listings. You're the THIRD member to go through this. You're not alone. That's why this brotherhood is here to support each other by sharing information ... i.e. their lady's profile number to avoid double-crossings.
You're not the first guy here to get his heart broken. Try one more time ... keep the faith. You never know, the next one may be the one. Sorry to hear you're considering leaving the group.