China Romance
All About China => Visas, Immigration and Emigration => Topic started by: Neil on April 30, 2012, 02:14:12 pm
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Well, I've been back home for a week. I figured I should write something about our interview.
My wife and I arrived in Hong Kong on the 10th of April. Our interview was on the morning of the 11th. The appointment said 7:30am so we arrived at the consulate at 7. We were the second people there behind a mother and young son. The sign on the door said that they don't open until 8 so we stood and waited for an hour. By 8, there was a good 30 people in the line, including quite a few interpreters.
We signed through security and got a number quickly. We were called to an interview room at around 9. There were 2 chairs, but the interviewer didn't want us both in the room at the same time. She asked me a few general questions, but said that the interview was for my wife and they would only talk to me out of courtesy since I was there.
In retrospect, I should have spent that time explaining my plans for when my wife comes to Canada, but I honestly didn't think it was needed - we supplied 2 large stacks of evidence that should have spoken for itself.
I left the room and let my wife take my place with the translator beside her. They were only in there about 30 minutes. When they came out, it was obvious it was denied. They tested her english ability which was very low. They asked her a lot of questions, but she was scared to answer about my family since she was afraid to make a mistake - which was a huge mistake. She was very nervous and I wasn't there to reassure her.
We weren't given a chance to argue and I wasn't given the chance to defend her - when I turned to look into the room, it was empty. My wife had a paper with reasons that our application was denied: They were not satisfied that our marriage is genuine and they were not satisfied that the primary reason for our marriage was other than for the purpose of gaining admission to Canada.
I now have 3 weeks to appeal or our case will be closed.
The translator told us that she needed more English skill. She mentioned that the interviewer seemed confused why my parents didn't attend our wedding - my 75 year old retired parents. She mentioned proof of support was not enough to prove it was a real relationship. She mentioned that we don't communicate enough, yet they kept all 1000 pages of our chat logs (although they gave us back a lot of our other evidence). They didn't take into account the fact that I had visited my wife 6 times including our first meeting, spent a total of 10 weeks together, or that many of those weeks were spent with her family, without a translator.
I'm trying to contact an immigration lawyer and there's an immigration help center in Kamloops that offers free advice and help. I have no idea what the timeline is like for an appeal. One of the questions on the form asks if I need an interpreter. I do if it's in Hong Kong again, not if it's in Canada. I'll check the box and deal with it when I know more.
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Neil. very sorry for the bad news. You must be really bummed out right now. The band news scares the hell out of me and I bet everyone else waiting for VISAs. If it were me I would just drop the whole thing in an attorneys lap.
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I am really sorry man, that sucks big time.
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Sorry to hear about the denial, keep your spirits up and get to work on the appeal!
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Sorry to hear about that. Hongkong office is the most difficult place to get the visa of canada family reunion immigration in the world. More than 50% cases have been denied there. EU countries have the highest approval rate 91%.
Anyway I do know there are many successful appeal cases of family reunion immigration from a Chinese forum. Don't give up please.
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Neil, I know your pain of the rejection but mine was only a visitors visa, Appeal as soon as possible, You have the full support from all the guys and girls here and i am sure they can give good advice to you, WOW, 6 times to visit your wife and they have doubts, That sucks, Good luck mate, John.
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Neil, sorry to hear the news... >:(
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Neil, I am real sorry to hear this. My heart is breaking for the both of you. Hang in there and as Larry the Cable guy would say, "Get er done!"
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Yes Neil very sorry to hear this-I in no way know what the Canadian requirements are .....but is language skills really one of them???
The reason I ask is-Ping was worried about her "lack of the language" but did the whole interview in Chinese-I know it isn't a requirement for the U.S.
You would think a thousand pages of chat logs would not only show a genuine relationship, but also the ability to communicate.
Hope this doesn't keep you down for long. Remember if it's a fight they want-it's a fight they'll get
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Thanks everyone. I don't plan to give up. If anything, they've awakened the sleeping giant.
I don't understand how they can think it's not a genuine relationship. Obviously I need to do a better job of convincing them. I should say, we need to do a better job. I can explain how supportive and encouraging my family is. I can explain how I have friends in town that are Chinese. One of my Chinese friends owns a hotel and employs Chinese immigrants as housekeeping staff - they are always needing more help and he would gladly hire her. I can get that in writing from him.
Communication is another issue I think they doubted. All our chat logs are in Chinese. It is easiest for us since I can quickly translate messages and most of her communication is through her cell phone on qq. I agree, we need to talk more, but it's not always easy or convenient. When we are together, we never have a problem. I have learned a few phrases in Mandarin and she has learned a few in English. When we have something important to say, we have plenty of translation options: cell phone, electronic translator, relatives, friends that speak a little of both languages both here and in China.
To top this off, I've also been dealing with a plumbing issue at my apartment for the last week. It's still not solved. The plumber and carpet cleaner have been back a few times.
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Just one more bump in the road Neil.....hang in there, you will win through.
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Neil (our Chocolate Man), I can imagine you must be beyond "Bittersweet" with this. Being here on this Forum as long as I have and Facebook, it is NOT a pleasent time to read any of our Member's being given this kind of treatment.. don't care who the F it is. I also know, getting mad and and throwing stones at these Gov. people is not going to make them give you any favours.
Appeal with a good if not great Lawyer that can get in Contact direct with these A-holes and make them take time to actually "LOOK" at the proof your providing... something they love to overlook due to their lazyness/heartless nature.
Do not melt and fight for your Wife as long as your breathing/longing for your Wife's love.
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No jokes from me on this one Neil. I am gutted for you two.
Maybe she had has to learn a lot more English and is it a good idea to strengthen the interest to the authoraties in working and associating more with the Chinese Community?
Just a thought.
Willy
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Outch :o
well, that's quite a bad news, but as many others say here, it's not over.
I hope, I wish you can do everything to give any proof that you want to live with your wife, wherever you both can live.
However, I don't understand about that part "She mentioned proof of support was not enough to prove it was a real relationship. She mentioned that we don't communicate enough...."
She = your wife?
If so, I would believe that she'd better do or say something that can be good for both of you, but not to say something like that?
I think too, depending some interviews, there may be something related to Politics and the way to go to other countries, such as Canada or some european countries?
Anyway, hang in there ;-)
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I talked to my Lawyer yesterday, to see what he thinks of this and his thought what to do next. Of course it's not a quick fix, but either way.. time/money will be again a big factor.
He's given me two advice's; First if you go the Appeal route, you'll need a Lawyer and as we know already.. this can take one to two yrs. and all that can come out of it.. is the same result NO.
Second, forget the Appeal.. wait eight months (that's coming form him for US Immigr.) and start over. This looks pretty much the same time frame, but... you have a better chance for an approval that way. Also give you more time to Communicate ( that is of much importance he says ) without PC/Phone/ect. She needs to have at least some English in case of un-foreseen Emergencies when your not present or with her at the time ( we've talked about this on our Forum many times ).
Not a favourable outlook being married and missing being together, but what is one to do.. when you get shown the door with the wrong paper.
I feel for you Neil, hope this get's resolved without both of you loosing what you have worked so hard for.
Good Luck and remember, anyway we can help/comfort you.. we're here to do it.
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Sly, I believe SHE meant the woman conducting the interview. That was how I understood it.
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That is what i can think too but i can not really understand why she said that :s
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Neil, I don't know how it is in Canada, but I do have experience at being denied
visitor visas by NZ Immigration. It might be relevant to your situation.
Firstly, as the other posters note, don't give up.
You may have lost the battle, but you can still win the war :-)
And in my experience, it was the battles that proved that the
ties between us were no passing fancy.. Handy to know :-)
Sometimes I wonder whether Immigration don't "stress test: a relationship
to see if its genuine. But that would be crediting them with more intelligence
than I think is warranted.
Secondly plan the operation like a military campaign. Hidden deeply in the
Immigration Website was a complaints process, and also we have an
"Official Information" act like the US FOI. After the first rejection, I asked
for all the details of the complaint process and ALL the documentation of
the first rejection INCLUDING ALL DOCUMENTS NOT IN ENGLISH. This gave
INZ notice that We were not going to go away, and that the application
would be subject to close scrutiny. (Cost approx $120)
Thirdly, "take the fight to the enemy". Wherever we went, I took a camera
and pictures. I then assembled a timeline portfolio by month. 18 months,
2-3 pages per month, 130 pics in all. This we sent off to INZ and then followed
up with updates every two months until they asked us to "cease and desist"
At that time I figured we were ahead. :-)
WE finally got just a letter in the mail saying "residency approved" - no
further questions, interviews or anysuch.
So I took 2 tacks:
1: is that these dudes are overworked, and if you can make it easy for them
to tick the Yes boxes on their computer screens, and hard for them to click on the
No boxes, you are headed well on the road to a successful outcome. These guys
are assessed on applications processed per week / month. If your case is easy
and it helps their brownies points they are more likely to approve.
2: I made it clear that we had competent legal advice and were talking to the
local electorate Member of Parliament.. ie that there were consequences to
an incorrect decision. Consequences are not common for civil servants, and
it tends to make them actually reasonable
Good Luck
David K
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Thanks David. I really am trying to appeal the decision. The appeal was mailed, but typically, they have not responded, or even acknowledged that they received my letter. It is very frustrating.
My wife is constantly looking for confirmation that I have not given up or changed my mind. And you're right, it really has strengthened our relationship. She has taken a keen interest in everything Canadian - we spent a few days sending pictures back and forth from google earth. She knows where I live - down to the building. She knows where my family lives. She has contacted my youngest daughter on qq, though they are almost exactly on opposite sides of the planet, which makes it difficult for them to chat.
It really sucks. My wife is 15 hours away from me (in time zones) and my daughters are 4 hours away in the opposite direction. I'm stuck in the middle, working my ass off.
Everyone says I should hire a lawyer. One lawyer told me he couldn't help with an appeal, but if I drop the appeal, he could help with a new immigration case. I think that's a load of crap. I don't know what a lawyer can really do to help, beyond giving us a list of questions and answers. I'm preparing for the appeal. What really stinks is that everything I say at an appeal could have been said at the interview in Hong Kong, had they let me in the room.
I feel lucky that I have a good job, not a lot of expenses and a lot of free time to chat with my wife. I really wish she was here - everything I do, I imagine her here with me. I'm thinking about buying a house (I rent now), but it will cut into my ability to return to China as often as I have.
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Hi Neil...
Theres obviously a huge variation in opinion about the value of a lawyer.
Typically they seem to make whatever topic you bring to them mysterious
complex and beyond the comprehension of mere mortals. This then allows
them to take charge, tell you what they are doing ( this part is called
taking instructions) and then charge a substantial fortune for going down
dead alleys that you would never have ventured near.
I took a different approach - I found a competent lawyer who was willing to
let me call the shots, do the running around, draft out letters etc - ie manufacture
the ammunition.
He ( and his firms letterhead) checked the ammunition and fired the gun.
This turned out really handy when I had to make representations to our
local Member of Parliament, who then had words to the associate Minister of
Immigration, who then instructed Immigration to issue a Visa.
The whole exercise took about 18 months and cost me $1500. Very reasonable, and
in my view money well spent.
It also gave me confidence that it is possible to go up against a bureaucracy and
prevail - so the next phase (residency) I did myself, and did successfully.
That took another 12 months.
I guess Canada is complicated by the State/Federal divide. My daughter and her
partner tried for a work permit in Canada, with job offer in hand. State was
enthusiastic, federal was like walking in a tar pit. They returned to NZ to apply from here.
So I guess thats another argument for a GOOD immigration lawyer who acts on
behalf of you and your good lady to secure the outcome you want at the least
possible cost ( in both time and money)
So persevere.
Its not the size of the dog in the fight; its the size of the fight in the dog.
And extend my wife's good wishes to yours.
We persevered, prevailed, and could not be happier.
As she says "YiQi Kuaile"
:-) David K
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David...this is really great advice! I am going to "sticky" this thread, so that it is near the top always...because this kind of advice can help so many people. Thank you.
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An Aside: A Trap for young ( or in my case, not so young) players.
I logged on, read a few threads, and then settled down to give Neil
some more encouragement. Wrote quite a bit, and then hit [Post].
It came up [denied], because the interval in which I was writing
exceeded 60 minutes, and the system had silently logged me off. :-(
From memory it was about the strategy of appeal, which is mostly the strategy
of paperwork.
Get onto their case and find out who is deciding the appeal (Case Officer??)
and where they can be contacted.
Then keep in contact on a regular basis. The squeaky wheel gets the oil :-)
Keep in mind that this Dude is going to peruse your file, with a view to making a decision
So the trick is to make it easy for him to see things your way.
Even thought you might feel like choking the living daylights out of him, or feel
outraged at being unfairly treated, bear in mind the words of the good book:
" A Soft answer turneth away wrath"
So your letters should be short, clear and emotionally neutral.
Here in NZ the operations manual states right up front:
"All immigration officers must act on the principles of fairness and natural justice when
deciding an application". So I always mention being guides by the principles of
fairness and natural justice in the first paragraph. The rest of the letter is a
one page summary of the detail that follows ( i.e attached are Yahoo logs etc )
so the guy (or guyette ) does not switch off
What I finally did was assemble all my correspondence as a series of linked Word documents
that I burned to CD, compleat with a nicely formatted lightscibe label. So reviewing
the case became point and click, easy peasy, and where's that big Approved stamp.
I also made it clear (politely) that I was not going to go away, and was quite prepared
for a war of attrition ( which is what transpired).
Regrettably there is also the potential for covert racism. Most of the case officers in
Hong Kong are not native english speakers, and are a touch adverse to what they perceive
as interference in their patch. Whether it was memories of the Boxer rebellion or the Opium wars
O don'y know, but I had a distinct underlying feeling of "Kung Fu to you Mr BigNose".
Things improved once we transferred to debate "Onshore" to NZ
So there you go:
Good luck, Keep persevering and keep us updated with the results
Peace
David K
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Any updates Neil? I hope you are silent because you are together now. ;)
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I contacted an immigration lawyer the other day. As I figured, at this point in our case, he can't do much more than is already done. He has no better ways to contact immigration than I do. Apparently he has as much difficulty communicating with a human being in the immigration appeal division as I do. He suggested I continue to send faxes requesting the status of my case until someone contacts me. It's been 6 months since my interview and still no decision has been made.
I'm tempted to start looking for offshore work, or head to the oil fields, if we are denied again. I could probably find a camp job that runs two or three weeks in, one or two weeks out that would facilitate me travelling back and forth to China more often. I'm an industrial electrician, but I don't have a whole lot of experience yet. I've been a journeyman for 3 years.