China Romance
General Discussion and Useful Links => Useful Links And Articles => Topic started by: China Shark on April 02, 2009, 01:53:59 am
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Well, guys I know I am repeating myself yet felt this site needed a thread dedicated to those teaching here and those also aspiring to teach here. Reason why I feel it is needed is because there is a lot of information out there that is misleading, false, subjective or unsubstanstiated. First off number one is you do not necessarily need toefl certification to teach in China. Reason why so many people believe this is because it is big business to sell people this at sometimes a thousand dollars for a six month course. I never took any of those courses and have taught in Japan in 93-94 and have taught in private schools as well as public in China. What you need is to be a native speaker of English with a high school education. Most schools prefer female first, then Americans or Canadians. If you have a very strong accent like from England, Australia or Ireland you could possibly run into some difficulties along the way. Best bet is to secure a job prior to coming over. The company I recommend is Buckland Group, I started out with them yet left to live with my girl in her city, Shenzhen. Another thing come into the country on a tourist visa and have your employer arrange for you to acquire the permanent resident permit in your passport. Guys that know me on here with validate my claims of really possessing one. My situation didn't pan out so living here is my contigency plan. If I didn't do it this way I'de really be screwed. It takes nerves of steel to do this route yet it was the smartest thing I've ever done in my life. I love my life here and teaching is so rewarding you cannot imagine. Yes, soon I will get my toefl creditials for the really good teaching jobs in my future. One day I'de like to teach for big money in Hong Kong. If you think you got what it takes just do it. Good luck to all those aspiring new teachers out there.
China Shark Michael :mrgreen:
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do you meet other american teachers?
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Depends on what type of school you work in. If you work in a private international you probably see a dozen a day in the offices. When I taught in public high school I did not see one other foreigner in Guangzhou at all small town 65,000. I currently teach all six classes each of grade 1, 4, and 6. I see the other teachers at a distance but never actually met them yet. It is a hard question to answer because each school has thier own protocoll. I imagine you probably won't run into other expatriots other than on the streets or in clubs. There are so many places to actually meet other teachers here. Just type in the name of your city you are teaching in and wala the expatriots are massive partiers here in Shenzhen.
China Shark Michael :mrgreen:
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Sorry guys I've moved around so much here I put Guangzhou instead of Yongzhou.
Shark :mrgreen:
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Michael, i'm putting this into the useful links and articles forum, i figure many people will have an interest in this for sure.
Thanks for posting.
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Man thanks shark! I was really looking into this. I was going to go and start a tefl program but im trying to save my money to go see Le. I will check out the company you suggested.
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I'm strongly considering doing this through the Buckland group. However, I have never traveled outside the US, so I have no idea what I would be getting into. At one level, it's intriguing. At the same time, it seems like a big leap of faith that I'd be able to survive there for very long. The idea of moving to a place where I may not be able to communicate with anyone without help is daunting. In some ways I'd feel like I was living on the moon. (I'm not sure why an image of Capt. Kirk seducing green women came to mind, but oh well.)
I can google "living in China" and be able to prepare a little bit, like what to bring, etc. But realistically, what big changes in mindset/attitude/culture would I have to adjust to? I have lived most of my life in the Southeast... with a little time in Flushing, NY (little Chinatown) also.
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Ok mike, you have me curious now. Tell me about the fact that they don't have toilets there? you have to crap in the shower?
I don't suppose they have toilet paper ether huh? :shock:
Don
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(Maybe a mod needs to move this to another topic, as it looks like I may have unintentionally hijacked this one.)
I have no firsthand knowledge of China, and a minimal amount of reliable second hand knowledge. I'll look around on Facebook and try to catch up before asking questions that sprang to mind about regional differences- I wasn't aware of its existence. Maybe there should be a link in the newbie section?
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It's cool Chris we were all there at one point in this thing of ours. Are you inquiring about English teaching or just unsure about where to post. Best suggestion is listen to the ones that are truly experienced here. Maxx, Max, Arnold, Vince, Ronan are guys that been here and lived to tell tales of a different world are the ones to listen to. Being a newbie you should be reading all three forums and gleaning anything you can. Do not just read forums either because they are filled with conjecture and misinformation much of the times. My only salvation was living and breathing this thing for months on end before I moved here. Check out Candlelove and other reputable government sites that explain everything that entails marrying a Chinese women. If you listen to the experienced ones you'll get through this thing with a beautiful loving bride for keeps. I'm not sure how much credibility I have anymore since my relationship went south. One thing I know is I plan on staying here maybe for good so I can savor all that China has to offer me. Even when life is not great here it is a hell of a lot better than in the states. Good luck and hope things work out with whoever you meet.
China Shark Michael :mrgreen:
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I am interested in learning more about teaching overseas, and about life over there in general. I posted here because you have first hand knowledge of both, and the topic kinda drifted away from teaching. So I should probably create a new one once I have specific questions to ask. Until then I'll just ask questions about teaching in here. I am a little concerned about some of the horror stories I've read on the net about people being promised teaching jobs only to find out when they arrive that it's some guy running a "school" out of his apartment.
I'll take a look at Candlelove... I'm not usually one to combine "reputable" and "government" in the same sentence, but I'll see what I can find. I'm pretty much caught up on the 3 forums. Certain aspects of them are good, but a lot of the discussions are premised on having the woman leave China. I'm leaning toward the other direction, so those posts aren't entirely meaningful.
I wouldn't worry about your credibility- IMHO people always learn more from mistakes than successes. I hope things turn around for you.
Thanks,
Chris
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Chris contact Ping at Buckland Group about teaching for them. After you look through thier site narrow your search for women around the areas Buckland contracts with. Buckland has been around for ten years and is bonded from the government so you will always get paid. Only reason I left them was because I couldn't find a school close enough to Shenzhen so I ventured out on my own. Now I work for a private boarding middle school and work at another private school with 5 branches around Shenzhen. Between the two I should bring in around 16,000 a month, hell that is good money in America. Most reputable employers will square you away with your permanent resident permit. Buckland got me mine in three weeks time. The permit is good for one year. If you have the nerve it is the adventure of a lifetime. Not sure if I really want to move back to the states. Love my job and my students, I'm making a meaningful contributions to young peoples lives. Everyday I assimilate more of the culture. Living here will guarentee success in finding a good wife. Hell, now it is really hard because there are too many beautiful to choose from. Over here you are a rock star if you are a foreigner. Went into a clothing store and I became the center of attention from all the twenty year old girls and I'm 46. Best decision I ever made in my life.
China Shark Michael :mrgreen:
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watch out that attention makes jerks out of guys or do you have nothing to worry about that? :P
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Michael...I am so jealous of you being there...lucky guy! Keep the flow of information coming.
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Michael...I am so jealous of you being there...lucky guy!
Nah ... I like waiting for my Lady to come to me and I get to pick her up from the Airport , for a change . That will be another mark on the Calendar for as long as I live .
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Hi mike thought I would update you a little about me trying for work in Qingdao, as I had said before the job I was asked to apply for I did not do it, I thought it may have been too far from Kathy (who now wants to be called Ke REn (another story hehe)) Anyway I sent off 5 or 6 emails last night and got a reply this morning for a university in Qingdao, starting in March 2010, so I have asked to be given details etc. So because of your posts about teaching, I would like to say, thank you. If it was not for you (really) I would not have decided to give it a go. So thanks Mike hope you are still enjoying your time there, and I look forward too maybe getting your email address or getting in touch when I come through....Rob
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I've begun sending out inquiries about teaching jobs in changchun. It's a long story how this has come about but obtaining new employment has not been so favorable in my area and short of having a way to remain here and make my bills, I've now entertained going to China and live with my wife and teach until I can get something here in the states again.
My girls are not happy about it in the slightest but at least making some money is better than living in a box making no money.
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Network Engineer for a datacenter colocation, much like what Ronan does I believe.
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So we know of Buckland Group. Is there any other groups that do placement? I am particularly looking to stay in Shenzhen, but I dont' trust my own ability to get all the paperwork I need to get done, well...done.
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Ricky check out Shenzhenparty.com That is where I picked up two of my three jobs in Shenzhen. Best suggestion is to come here to visit your girl and do all the leg work while she is at work. There are many people who will place you yet you have to be careful on who you trust here. You are the outsider and naive in the ways of the Chinese grifter. I've heard many stories of people taking jobs and working for a month and never getting paid and the local govt could care less. Best bet is to make connections while you're here and plan it from there. You are here until the 9th so you still have a week to lay groundwork before you come back possibly for good. This thing takes commitment and determination. If you want to do it there is more than enough opportunity here in Shenzhen.
China Shark Mike
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Hi China Shark Mike,
I have an interesting request. One of the lovely translators I made friends with on my visit to the Mei Yin agency in Changsha is looking for translator or teaching work in Shenzen later this year. Her English is very good. I wonder if you could suggest possibilities for teaching work. She even said to me that she could be your teaching assistant! I said I would ask you for advice. She is a fantastic person as well as a great communicator. I don't know what influence you have, but any suggestions would be gratefully received. I am in contact with her via QQ. She is 23 and has a very sunny personality. Sounds like I'm trying to set you up for a date, doesn't it? She IS single. Haha
Thanks,
Alex
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Alex send me a private email and then you can pass it on to her. To be honest I am not sure what I can do you I can send out feelers and see if any of my contacts can help her. There is tons of work availible yet the pay for a bilingual is low compared to what they pay me. Would have posted my email on here yet lately there are too many flakes anymore.
Shark
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Mike, I am considering teaching in Changsha. You mentioned that you make about 16000 monthly, I am assuming RMB, correct? You also say between three schools. Approximately, how many hours per week do you commit to this? Keep posting, the more you share about your experience the more we can learn and hopefully make a quality decision.
Thanks, Shaun
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Shaun that 16,000 was an estimate of future earnings. A few jobs did not come through because the one school isn't as reliable as I'de prefer. Currently I make 450 rmbs from the small new school for teaching three one hour classes. Regular job is teaching 20 forty minute classes 2,000 rmbs, and the new class I am starting up is a six hour class for 600 rmbs. So I am working 24 classes for 12,200 rmbs a month. I should be picking up more work soon so it will just get better the longer I am here and the more contacts I make. It isn't so much about money as it is about just being content working a job where I am actually respected. The work is here if you are smart and resourceful. I recently just really became lucky by finding a new school that is just starting out, hence higher pay and choices of classes I want to teach in the future. If you are a hardworker you can earn a lot of money here.
China Shark Mike
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I agree with you Mike. I contacted buckland just the other day and am probably going to start up with them. I figure that is the best place to get my foot in the door and get some experience before I attempt to freelance it out in Shenzhen, if by that time, I decide to stay there. Gunning for Guanxi or Hainan for my first assignments
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Well, school will let out for 2 months until September so I am free lancing my teaching throughout Nashan and Shenzhen. Funny thing was that I was worried that I would not have enough work and now I am worried that I'll have more work than I could possibly handle. I currently work for a private bloarding middle school, a big and a small training school. Now that I've been teaching a good solid four months my confidence and ability have improved dramatically. Guys that are contemplating this please really look into yourself and try to evaluate first what kind of personality you possess, how energentic and creative you could be with different age groups and different levels. Can you entertain a child as well as cultured adults. These are all questions I failed to ask myself for the simple fact that I went out of the frying pan into the fire just out of necessessity. I would not suggest taking moving to China lightly. Joshua has the right idea, plotting and planning and socking away money to live on prior to actually obtaining the work here. The rewards are amazing, students respect and treat you like one of thier family. I have to say I really will miss them during my summer time off. Funny thing was I was dependent on over the counter sleep aids for years yet my stress free life here has eliminated that need. Hoping to save money for a nice trip back to the states in October or November to take care of a few things. After that trip I don't think I'll travel back for years at a time. Found my place in life so I'm here to stay for at least a little while. If any of the brothers need help with establishing a teaching carreer just let me know and I'll see if I can help out. The thing about finding work is being at the right place at the right time, making good contacts and just be willing to do whatever it takes to get the job done. Right now I'm still very green so I'm learning new and interesting things each day to help me become a better teacher. Last night I implimented using our cell phones in class to get my beginner level class to speak and come up with thier own ideas for conservation. Worked like a charm so now I have one more thing for my lesson plans in the future. One other thing is that this job isn't as easy as I make it out to be. Some classes drain the friggen life out of you. Sometimes the students level is below the actual level the class is, in elementary school discipline is always an issue, sometimes basic teaching is dry and boring. A good teacher is one who can take something boring and make it fun. There is a saying in English class, leave your face behind. The Chinese are intimidated about speaking for fear of making a mistake and losing face. In class I remind them that I only speak one language and they speak two. It gives them encouragement to try to speak. Once you gain thier trust they will do anything to please the teacher. Well, I guess that as much as a rant as I feel like writing today, do I hear a sigh of relieve from the brotherhood, lmao.
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Ahhh .... peace and quiet for a few day's .:sleepy:
But to tell you the truth Michael , we wouldn't be what we are today without you . I think everyone has his special to give here and it makes it a " Whole " . It's better to have you Ranting here with us , then ... having you rant elsewhere over us . :icon_cheesygrin:
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My ears are burning...so to speak lol I see my name in that novel Michael wrote a few days ago. He's right, I put an end to searching for a job in China long-distance. I'm planning on living there first and then looking for work. With the help of my girlfriend and her friends, I may be able to locate a job. If not, I'll seek help from Michael but only as a last resort. I wouldn't want to impose on his privacy. Anyway, I'm talking to my girl on QQ right now so I can't really focus on this. Laters guys. :icon_biggrin:
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Guys it the Shark here once again adding a volumious chapter to his ongoing saga. Today is very sedate, school let out Friday for two months and I'm taking it easy for at least a few days before start getting back into teaching. I just received an email today with an incredible teaching offer. I interviewed with this woman Eva about 3 months or so ago and turned down her offer to teach kindegarten. I had completely forgotten about her for several reasons, first is that the offer was not really that attractive compared to what I am already getting, second is I did not get a feeling of trust or fairness with her. But now her offer has gotten quantum leaps better and I should now consider it for two reasons. First reason is that it will start asap so I will be back to full salary immediately and not scraping by with only part time work for two months. My only concern now is if she is worth trusting with a months pay. She works for an agency and some of them can be pretty shady. Yet on the other hand if I take the job her agency gets 1,000 rmbs out of my 12,000 rmbs I make each month, so her incentive would be to fly straight to insure her agency gets the monthly fee. Also, the job has all the perks the real teaching jobs have here. Paid vacation, paid roundtrip airfare after 1 year completion of the contract, some many things I do not get with my present job. The practical side of me is telling me to jump at this great opportunity and the more conservative side is say to tread carefully in uncharted territory. What do you guys think? I am thinking of doing the demostration class and accepting the job and try it out and if I like it I will stay permanently on. One of the drawbacks will be leaving a comfortable safe work place yet the long term benefits will surely outweigh these factors. Damm there are too many viable choices here. Funny thing it is the complete opposite back in the states. Truly found my calling in life now all I need to do is to find the women of my dreams to complete the picture.
China Shark Mike
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Can't help you with the women side of things,but you've stepped into uncharted waters when you first moved to china,and that's worked wonders for you.So whilst your on a roll,go for it,( have a back up plan just in case)keep us informed on your developments.
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Do it up putting caution to the wind! I agree with Stuart, you're doing so well right now not because of a lack of risks you've taken but quite the opposite. All the risks thus far have proven to have been paranoia at best. What's one more notch in the risk factor belt? Just make sure you have a plan B and you'll be golden, Michael. I'm so happy for you but also jealous at the same time lol. Does that make me selfish? :icon_cheesygrin: Months and months before I can see my lady. :-/
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Guys, the Shark just reached his 6 month mark now in country. So many things have happened in such a short period of time. For those guys on the fence about living and teaching here, there is so much opportunity for English teachers here. A brand new International school just opened up a new chain in and around Shenzhen. In fact my supervisor and one of the teachers I work with are jumping ship to this school called Pattison, company has all the standard perks yet is restrictive in the sense they monopolize your time so you can't freelance at other places. I don't even worry about work anymore because my skills as a teacher have improved dramatically. I can pick and choose jobs now because of experience in teaching as well as performing really well in my demostration classes for the clients. Now I teach an intermediate BEC Business English Class once a week for 5 hours, an intermediate BEC Business English Class Tues and Thurs from 7:00 - 9:30 pm. I teach a beginner adult English class for 4 days a week, ten hours total. I also teach a beginner adult class for twice a week for two hours for another small training center. For one week I make 2,300 rmbs for 22 hours work. $360. which is plenty of cash to live on here. When my regular job starts back I'll double my salary easy, $700. a week was more than I was taking back home in America $45,000. So it is viable for the resourcefull and street smart guys. Never coming back is the way I see it. My students buy my dinners all the time, get personal rides home as well as taxi rides. They view me like I'm the greatest teacher alive, and I really love doing it, best gig ever had. Even have toyed with going back to school to complete my Masters in Education possibly. Shenzhen University is a really respectable university, one of my friends attends there. I have opportunities here that I never could have imagined back home. Kind of surprised that how many guys are considering doing this now. When I started this there were one or two guys on the official forum that might have just mentioned teaching and living as an option. Damm, I think I started some kind of tread here. I know Rob and Josh are doing it after discussing things with them. I've actually been toying with the idea of eventually opening up a school one day with a fellow expatriot from America. Also, a matchmaking/translating service is also on the back burner. Not to mention exporting business of some kind or another. No, exporting out of China has never been attempted what I am talking about. There are so many Chinese brands of clothing here that I can buy for next to nothing and resale for at least twice what I would pay for it. Right now the world is my oyster, funny thing I was with my exgirlfriend the other night and she is really into palm reading and claims I will be very wealthy as well as live a really long life. Must be why shy is begging and pleading to come back even after I stated I'm not going back to America to live.
Sorry, guys I hijacked my own thread yet will digress back to the original line of thought. Mods don't screw around and omit anything because it will make it disjointed and unreadable if you do so. I'm an artist don't desecrate my work. Enough rant for one day. If nothing else I'm an amusing distraction, right?
China Shark Mike
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Thats great information...I wish he could post more on this. Is there a chance that he will be back on the site?
Seems like a tremendous resource to others here what with the whole living in China and actually earning a living thing. We're not all bringing wives back to the states are we? Maybe there is someone else on the board who's over there working....looking or already married there that could possibly continue this discussion.
Has any one of the apparently plentiful IT guys here looked into work in our industry over there with a Chinese company or an American company with offices there. I'm a 21 yr IT veteran primarily a Network Guy (Microsoft and Novell) who has done darn near everything.....last gig was a Enterprise Data Center Job that had 100 remote networks connected. Mostly I worked on about 40 SQL Servers and the associated nightly jobs/storage/backup hardware. Lots of web and ecommerce also.
How about English language computer classes or training, I wonder if that's potentially an option.
Please forgive me if Technical talk or job talk is verboten on this board. Just trying to find a way to make things work, find a traditional Chinese wife, and live over there.
I got about 15 yrs until I can retire......if there's even a Social Security to send anything out at that point.
Thanks
Phil
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I wondered about teaching IT as well. But a guy I work with who has a Chinese wife says that English language teaching is far more lucrative.
I want my Chinese lady to live in England for a while, but I am coming round to the idea of moving East at some stage.
Is this Chinese requirement for English language teachers likely to be a long term requirement? I work at a Uni so it would be easy for me to get the necessary qualifications. I also have postgraduate education, so I guess that would help as well.
I think my other option would be to wait for the global economy to recover, then find an expat IT job in Hong Kong or somewhere.
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Sorry...I can't resist.
That's an impressive resume Phil....why do you want to work for Computer Junction in Syracuse?
Well, I'm really fond of eating and sleeping indoors, and I would absolutely love the opportunity to be supervised by a 23yr old who's never used a computer for any purpose other than playing a game.
:)
Thanks
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How about English language computer classes or training, I wonder if that's potentially an option.
From what I have seen in my two months here is that there are a great number of courses to learn english. The problem is they cost money and not many have the cash spare. Of course you do get offered certain favours to teach ladies english. But i ask you just how many dumplings can one eat in a day!!!! If I just munch on two these days I've had enough.
Willy
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I wondered about teaching IT as well. But a guy I work with who has a Chinese wife says that English language teaching is far more lucrative.
I want my Chinese lady to live in England for a while, but I am coming round to the idea of moving East at some stage.
Is this Chinese requirement for English language teachers likely to be a long term requirement? I work at a Uni so it would be easy for me to get the necessary qualifications. I also have postgraduate education, so I guess that would help as well.
I think my other option would be to wait for the global economy to recover, then find an expat IT job in Hong Kong or somewhere.
Yup, everything I've seen and heard so far says the English teaching is the way to go at least to establish a base. I've got a friend who is with some school somewhere over there, no details were shared by him.
But....he did say this. "If you're American, have got a pulse, and can speak
the language well....you're hired!" End of story. That's was 4 months ago he communicates very sporadically but has been there for 12- 14 months and loves it.
The smaller "off the grid" schools are supposedly task masters and notorious for working the hell out of the teachers. But...if you get a start and can say you've done it then it's all uptown from there.
I look at it this way.....there are 2 Billion people who are all trying to make a better life for themselves. There are not enough decent jobs to go around for those seeking them. These people are going to make sure their children have the upper hand if at all possible. They will move heaven and earth to ensure their family has the best opportunities, and the younger generation coming along is going to be well equipped to compete. Their parents will see to that. There are probably many good years of teaching opportunities over there from what I've read and heard.
I'm just an armchair analyst here but I see the English Language / Business Education as being "The Game" of the 21st century in China. That is until the Western culture and accessibility.......seeps into the very fiber of the traditional Chinese way of life and ruins them all. They're gonna get what they wanted alright but the rest of us already know how that story ends. I'd give you anything in the world for the America I grew up in....It's really quite a sad story and I believe the Chinese are going to discover the hard way that they've bought into a hollow shell. A magnificent house of cards that has zero redeeming qualities. a consumer and commercial nightmare of epic proportions awaits them.
Until then the games afoot...I wish them and all of us luck.
Sorry to be so negative, that's just how I see it playing out.
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Thanks phil. Yes I am interested in the language teaching. Although I suspect it would be hard work - my lady works 50 hours a week in her office lady job :dodgy:.
I have a small software business sideline that brings in about $1000 a month, so I suppose that would be just about enough to live on, although it wouldn't buy much of a lavish lifestyle. If I gave up my day job I might be able to expand the business though.
Once I meet my lady's friends and relatives, I guess I may also be able to come up with an additional business venture.
I think I will get my lady to move to England for a few years, then maybe we can make a plan to move to Asia in later life. I like the idea of bringing up kids in Asia, although I suspect that having British passports would be a good thing for them.
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I think I will get my lady to move to England for a few years, then maybe we can make a plan to move to Asia in later life. I like the idea of bringing up kids in Asia, although I suspect that having British passports would be a good thing for them.
I think that your kids will be allowed British passports whether born in China, Capetown or Colchester.
Willy
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if born here arent they chinese citizens??
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Ted,
Short answer to that is ....NO!!
David
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if they are born in china to a westerner and chinese lady they get to retain
the westerners citizenship??
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Ted,
As a general rule, the male blood line takes the precedence. You can apply for Citizenship of China if born there, but who would really want too??
So long as you register the babies birth at your Embassy it will be considered a citizen of your country, and will have all the rights thereto, and will have no problem acquiring a passport.....
David......
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well that would cut some red tape as far as leaving the country
for the child i wonder if it would make it easier for the wife to leave
to be with husband and child
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Ted,
Easier, ....maybe a little, but she will still have to go through all the usual processes.
Don't make much sense, but then when has immigration departments ever made sense to anyone but themselves anyway???...lol!!
David.....
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true true they are their own world
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Hey China Shark, long time no see. Welcome back. good to hear from you agian....
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china shark isnt here just the post was newly added
he is still running around shenzhen thinking he knows it all