China Romance
All About China => Marrying A Lady In China => Topic started by: Philip on December 16, 2009, 02:21:34 am
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Hi guys,
I am getting on great with my lady. I will visit her next week. We plan to register our marriage, and then actually get married in April next year. All fine and dandy.
But last night, she tells me she thinks the wedding will cost 200000 yuan. This is a bit of a bombshell to me. She had previously asked me what kind of wedding I wanted. I told her I wanted a modest affair, with family and a few of her best friends. Well, in English terms, 200000 is a lot of money, and I just can't afford it, especially as I am saving for her and her two children to come to England.
In many respects, my lady is very careful with money, but my assertion that I do not have that kind of disposable income was not met with her usual good grace. I just want a simple modest affair (and we did have the discussion after she asked me what I wanted). The only thing we didn't discuss before is the figures.
How much do average weddings cost in China? What do you suggest I say to her that stops me sounding like a penny-pinching westerner? All I have said so far is that I cannot afford 200000, and that my priority is providing for our family in the future. Didn't really go down well.
It is cold in Hunan province at the moment. I hope the cold doesn't stretch to my reception when I meet my lady next week.:icon_sad:
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Philip , a couple of times when I have been discussing things with my Ying she has added a zero or some other number that has confused me until we have sorted the numbers out , but that number is way out of kilter even twenty thousand is a lot , read a couple of the other last months marriages , that will give you a good idea , regards Ying and Robert .
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Ouch, that's a lot of 0's. Didn't Chong say his banquet was about £1000? I guess a rogue 0 might have crept in there.
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Philip email a PM to Martin / Peter [ I Spy ]. They got married in Hunan Province. First of all, you'll get Red Envelopes back to help recoup the wedding dinner cost. If you're paying for the entire wedding, make sure that you get these RE back. Every place is different. One person got back 35,000 RMB in RE; I got back only 1,800 RMB in RE.
My wedding dinner for 80 guests cost 5,600 RMB. Including everything ... pictures, registration, Red Envelopes for guest and wedding help, dress ... my total came out to $ 1,800 Cdn. [ See my breakdown on the thread "Kaiping News" ]. Like Robert said, you need to sort out the numbers and know what specifically the breakdown is.
But 200,000 RMB is way too much. That's almost $ 30,000 Cdn. My wedding cost under 10% of her figure. How many guests is she planning to invite ? I would factor $ 11.00 Cdn per person for the dinner.
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Well if I go ahead it will be a marriage not a wedding. We have both been through the wedding stuff once and neither worked out so we will be having dinner for about 20 people about a week after we go through the official marriage bit.
But if she insists she wants an English style wedding then that is all right with me as the brides father pays for that where I come from!!!!:angel:
If I cannot get through it for less than £300 all in then I will think again - I will ask myself does she really want thoughful and kind and loving husband or does she want fancy photos and a bill longer than her dress.
Tight of course I am - I am part Yorkshire.
Willy
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If my lady wants a beautiful white dress then our wedding guests will have to eat 12 courses of tofu hee hee :icon_cheesygrin:.
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Brett
I hope it will be stinky tofu...
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Philip,
In anyone's terms, that is a lot of money, even 20000 is a lot of money for a wedding in China. I think you should best ask for a breakdown of the costs from her, maybe somewhere along the line, the figures have have got confused.....
I don't know what sort of age you are or your lady in China. Obviously if she is a younger lady and never been married, the wedding costs are going to be a little more expensive, than that of a previously married lady. But it still isn't going to cost anywhere resembling that figure she has told you....and that's for SURE!!
One thing that does spring to mind, ....if she IS young single lady, and that is, ...she is including a dowry to her parents in that enormous figure you quoted. If that is the case then you need to get that sorted out as soon as possible Philip. Maybe her parents are trying it on and being greedy, because your a foreign man.
You won't know anything until you get a breakdown of this 200000RMB that she's quoting you....
David......
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Dave (5o) there is a sentence in there that says what she is. "especially as I am saving for her and her two children to come to England." So we're not talking of a "young single lady".
But it all sounds like some math mistakes have happen.
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These figures terrify me!
My lady is young and not married before...200K RMB is my house deposit gone in one swoop and a couple of years savings.
I would write down the number too make 100% clear that you have the figure right. if its still the same its time to start explaining in as kind and understanding way as possible that this is far far too much. A western wedding here wouldn't cost that even with church, hotel reception, wedding dress etc., its insane!
Like Willy, I'd be asking, and how much of this are your parents paying?!
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Vince,
Your right, it must be the old age creeping up on me ... fancy me missing something like that ...hahaha!!
But hey!! there have been some previously married ladies, where the parents are expecting a big payout (RE). As i say in my post, he won't know until he gets a breakdown of this 200000RMB, then everything will be at least clear if there are any discrepancies and what she is expecting for her wedding...
David.....
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Phillip , I think this was a quick test to see ... how your Monetary Status is . Haha
I think for $ 2000 - $ 2500 you can have more than wonderful Wedding for everyone on her and your list .
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outch !
200 000 yuan is very lot, lot of money. In fact, I just couldn't have all that money, even in one year, without buying anything....
I've read many stories over here and costs about weddings, for sure, the price isn't the same.
Well, I think it maybe was to considerer as "I think it could be up to.... "
I just hope your lady will understand your point of view about it, and can easily "accept" it :)
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Most likely and I hope she meant 2000. yaun didn't put the dot (2000.00)
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My wife at first added a zero to her figure. I about fainted myself. but, she was wanting a big figure for her Mama. I finally after much wrangling told her that I wouldnt do that much. In the end I said that if I truly loved her I had to trust her. I finally gave her all of the money for the wedding that I could pay. I told her this is it, do what you want with it. It was a nice little wedding. She made the best of it, she says she was satisfied but I know she would have rather had a bigger wedding.
In the beginning everyone there thinks you are rich. The problem comes in when you first go there a lot of us, spend big and that helps reinforce that stereotype. I never discussed my financial position until after we were engaged, then when we got married I gave her the full picture.
So everything in China is negotiable lol.
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I just hope your lady will understand your point of view about it, and can easily "accept" it :)
Thanks Sylvain, and everyone,
I received this reply just now. Here is the Chinese.
????????????????,?????????????????,???????????????,?????????????????.
I don't completely understand the translation:
The great amount cost is local place because of our registered permanent residence is absent; But, my brothers all are not to be in the same direction job; Must need to shift to an earlier date the place inviting them to arrive at us; All thing and person will all be arranged for coming self by us.
She has two brothers. They live with their families in the south of China. Her actual home town is Chang Ning, a town in Hunan province some distance from Changsha. But I still don't understand the high figure. At least she's talking to me. She wasn't this morning. She was suggesting I cancel my trip. Ouch!
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High cost is because we account not local, but my brothers are not in the same direction, it is necessary to advance to invite them to our place, all the things and people by our own to arrange.
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I sent you a PM, but here is the information for the bother brothers. My wedding had around 240 people. There were 9 cars in our convoy. Wedding dress, traditional dress, big meal...all the fixings. My wedding was around 20 000 RMB.
My wifes brother just had a very big wedding. 400+ at the main wedding ceremony. There was also a lunch wedding meal in his wife's hometown, with over 100 people. This was a 6 hour drive away, and his wedding costs included the cars, gas, and accommodations for those if us that traveled in this convoy. His total cost of the wedding was 40 000 RMB.
Like Chong mentioned, people will give Red Envelopes. I don't know if this is more popular in Hunan than Guangdong. This was also my wife's and my new sister in laws first wedding...so the Red Envelopes might produce more money in this instance...I don't know. I don't remember the exact amount we got in RE's, but it pretty well covered the cost of the wedding.
I hope this helps.
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Phillip didn't mention if it was his Lady's first Wedding . Qing and myself had many Uncle's and Aunt's from her side of the Family present at our's . As far away as Beijing and not one or the other ever ask for us to pay for their Trip to Shanghai . This was Qing's second of course , as they were no Red Envelopes given by anyone . The only ones that received a Money Gift was her Parent's , which they returned on my next Trip as Traveling Money to Beijing .
If a push comes to a shuff , tell your Lady you do the Registry Wedding there and the Ceremony here in your Country .. where it is much cheaper .
That your Family would love to have it here , where they can be present .
Ahh ... only my thought's of all this of course . This can throw a Wrench in anybody's gearwork .
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Philip: 1) how long have you been talking to her? 2) have you gone to see her yet or is this the first time?
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Arnold,
Like myself, you missed the bit where he did actually mention in his post that she had 2 children, so you can basically take it that she has been previously married.....
It's either the age thing creeping up on us, or we speed read to excess!! haha!!
But then again, an awful lot of Chinese can't afford a wedding (ceremony/reception etc) and just go through the marriage registration.... and maybe just have a restaurant dinner with a few close friends and the parents!!
David....
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Philip
My YaYa's initial estimate of the cost of our wedding to come was 60,000 yuan.
We talked about it for a few letters and then she said she didn't want one at all. I think she was annoyed that I didn't just agree to the amount she had suggested. Mind you I didn't criticise it. I just talked about what I hoped for the wedding. I explained how that if I was to remarry here in Australia I would not have had a large wedding. I explained that when I married my first wife, it was quite modest and that we did lots of things to contain the cost (eg booking a restaurant directly and bringing our own drinks to the reception, rather than using one of the those expensive marriage reception places).
After that fuss died down we talked some more about it. I assured her that I wanted her to have a wedding day that she would look back fondly on. She sent me a new estimate costing 30,000 yuan.
Here is what it is made up of - I know this does not add up exactly, but this is the figure we're using at the moment:
Bride price to yaya's parents - Rmb10,000
Wedding dinner 2-3 tables - Rmb: 2400
Wedding candy - Rmb: 200
Wedding cigarette - Rmb: 500
My new suit - Rmb: 1000
Yaya's new dress - Rmb: 2000
Yaya's new shoes - Rmb: 1500
YaYa jewellery - Rmb: 5000
Hotel fee - Rmb: 1500
Quilt,sheet - Rmb?300
Wedding Photos - Rmb: 1,000
Hope you work it out.
I have no doubt there is a solution.
Whenever there is a problem ask for her help in trying to work it out. Rather than just refusing directly. Talk to her about it. If her parents are part of the decision making process (they are a big part of my life now), then involve them, and let them know about what it means having a wedding costing that much.
If it means a delay in having her coming across to live with you then they may be able to give something on the cost of the wedding.
If it is more important than anything else, then that's good to know too. You need to give serious consideration to that fact, if the wedding is that important to them.
On the assumption that this is not a maths problem, you may need to adjust your life plans to accommodate (as much as you are able and willing to do) her hopes and wishes.
Good luck on sorting this out. Don't let it steal all your happiness away. The wedding is important, but it's not nearly as important as the marriage and relationship itself.
Danny
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Philip: 1) how long have you been talking to her? 2) have you gone to see her yet or is this the first time?
I visited her at the end of October. We had a fantastic time. We had been EMFing and webcamming and QQing for six months before that. But now it seems she doubts my financial security because I am unwilling to pay the 200000 for the wedding. I have tried to tell her that I have a good teacher's wage in England, but I cannot seem to get through to her. My last chance could be her brother, who has helped us in the past
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But last night, she tells me she thinks the wedding will cost 200000 yuan.
Did she write this to you in English? or was it in Chinese and you stuffed it through a translating tool of sorts?
I've had google translate add zero's and decimal places many times in error.
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Philip: ASK HER THIS
is this the amount you think for the wedding: ???
? is 2
? is 10
? is 10,000
so ?? is 20 (2x10 = 20)
?? = 100,000 (10*10,000 = 100,000)
so ??? = 200,000 (2*10*10,000 = 200,000)
and ask for a YES or NO. Then there is no confusion about the amount.
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Danny, is this the price for the Red shoes, LOL. buzz
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I just hope your lady will understand your point of view about it, and can easily "accept" it :)
Thanks Sylvain, and everyone,
I received this reply just now. Here is the Chinese.
????????????????,?????????????????,???????????????,?????????????????.
I don't completely understand the translation:
The great amount cost is local place because of our registered permanent residence is absent; But, my brothers all are not to be in the same direction job; Must need to shift to an earlier date the place inviting them to arrive at us; All thing and person will all be arranged for coming self by us.
She has two brothers. They live with their families in the south of China. Her actual home town is Chang Ning, a town in Hunan province some distance from Changsha. But I still don't understand the high figure. At least she's talking to me. She wasn't this morning. She was suggesting I cancel my trip. Ouch!
From what I gather, because wherever she's living is not her home town, it will cost more (there has to be a way to get married if you can't go back to your home town for some reason and it MAY cost more). It also appears that she wants to bring her brothers to whever you want to hold the wedding (that would also likely include their families and provide accomodations) and finally that this is all based on the two of you making all the arrangements.
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Hi Phillip,
I've just had a conversation with my wife about this. She says 200000 is not unusual here, close friends of her's have spent 500000 and 1000000 !:s I was very surprised by this to say the least! Ours cost about 50000 for everything and with the RE's we came out about 7000 ahead. Again much to my surprise we didn't pay for anything until after the wedding when all the RE's where in and we where give a very elaborate book detailing who gave what. So In fact thanks to the generosity of friends and family the wedding was free! Of course at the time I knew nothing about this at all! Ming Zhi said that weddings at this kind of price where all about "face".
Best of luck in getting your lady to scale down her expectations, if she's told family and friends this is how the wedding will be, you have got a lot of work to do my friend. Step lightly.
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Wow, is she bringing everyone from the south by private jet, at the most to bring ten people from say Shenzhen to Changsha would cost 2,300rmb in a sleeper berth on a train, it's only about 149rmb per night right in the center of the city mall at the 7 days inn per room & Changsha is a pretty cheap place to eat, why not suggest hiring one of the ferries to get married on........provided it's not winter. I think she must have added a 0 by mistake. If you're still not sure if she has the right figure maybe ask her to convert 1,800gbp & 18,000gbp into rmb and see which one she meant.
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When I see the prices you Guys are talking about then thank God that we are already together and I just need the red book to let me stay in China.
5,000 10,000 and 20,000 GBP's not rmb's - I would not pay that to get married in the UK let alone China. Are you expecting Hello magazine (China edition) to pick up the bill for the photo rights to what must be lavish occasions?
Next thing is they will be asking you to send half the money up front.
Ok if she has never been married before maybe there is an excuse - but how can those who have previously been married expect these lavish occasions when, if it was not for us foreigners, their chances of having another husband was very unlikely indeed.
Willy
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I am with Willy on this one. My wife had never been married before, and the total cost was under $3500 Canadian...I can't remember the exact amount. It was a very nice wedding...nobody was disappointed. To pay so much more...wow!
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i just hope everything works out the best for you two
when you get this sorted out
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I am talking to my wife as I write this. When she got the sum, 200 000 yuan she looked very surprised. He spontaneous reply was that she is marring for the money..
Our wedding was for 70 people and cost about 25 000 yuan.. Our wedding was a normal wedding and all of our guest thought it was a good wedding. My wife write : "The women look for a dependence. This kind of woman is cannot find the man in Changsha."
You only can decide what to do but in my opinion this is a very big sum of money..
Peter
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Well guys. It's never boring, this Chinese relationship mallarkey.
If you read about my trip to China in October, you mey remember that her brother helped us a lot. He has come up trumps again. Last night she was throwing me out and giving me the elbow in no uncertain fashion. So long, adieu! Then I used my desperate last trump card. I emailed her brother.
Bit of history. My future wife (hopefully) asked me for £5000 last month. She had to give up her job, and pay legal fees for custody of her children from her ex-husband and pay to arrange our wedding. I transferred the money to her brother's account, because it was the safest way - he had a SWIFT code and she didn't. When I transferred the money, her brother said to me 'That is a large amount of money. It will go a long way in China. I don't know why my sister is asking for that much.' So, when I contacted him last night about the 200000, he had some severe words to say to his sister.
Here are some of his replies to me by email and by QQ:
Email:
I don’t think the wedding cost in China need so much money, I think maybe my sister made a mistake to type the numbers. From my experiences, if you just organize a small wedding with family members and few of best friends, around RMB20,000 is enough. To spend RMB200,000 is a fantastic wedding which happened seldom in China.
I called her this morning, I believe she should make a mistake. Don’t hesitate with the wedding cost, you can frankly tell her that you don’t have such big amount of money. Last time when you transferred ?5,000pounds to her, I was doubtful why she asked so much money, when I checked with her, she told me that she had to pay the lawyer cost to his ex-husband’s divorce, the living cost with children, and the wedding cost later, etc.
I think if she asked again, you can tell her that you don’t have more money except the travel cost. Also I told her after you get married, she need to find a new job inChangsha before leaving China, or living with the children with minimum living cost.
Regards.
Richard.
QQ:
I don't know why she has such stupid idea. I suggest you can tell her, you just plan the schedule for the marriage in Changsha, for the wedding dinner, not prepared yet, try to delay the wedding dinner to next time to China, or when she can go to U.K.
So, you see, her brother is a jewel, a diamond. I don't kid myself that everything is suddenly fine, but I am feeling distinctly more chipper than I was last night.
Any suggestions for suitable gifts to give to the brother would be greatly appreciated. Don't say cigarettes. Haha!
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Philip,
Take heed of what her brother is telling you here. Your lady seems to be of the impression that you have plenty of money. Personally i wouldn't send any more money over to China.
You have already sent over what amounts to around 50,000 RMB. Legal fees and costs to her previous husband will not come to anything like that figure. Reading between the lines, her brother is telling her to behave herself and to live at a lower cost, so maybe she is using some of that previous money to live beyond her current means.
I would definitely proceed with caution on my mind here!! You need to do a lot of talking between you both Philip... I don't like the idea of her telling you it's over, based on you not being prepared to pay out 200k RMB. Maybe her brother has sorted her out over this ludicrous some of money, but then maybe he hasn't. You need to sort out what's on her mind, and i hope for your sake it's not Money!!
David.....
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But why was she "throwing you out and giving you the elbow in no uncertain fashion"?
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But why was she "throwing you out and giving you the elbow in no uncertain fashion"?
Vince
Why? Because I told her I did not have the money, and she assumed that I did and just didn't want to pay what was needed for the wedding. All I have said in the past is that I can support her and her children when they come to London. That made her put 2 and 2 together and make 200000. Handling the arrangements on her own is putting her in contact with unscrupulous types who are coming up with these ridiculous figures. But I do need to thrash it out with her, find out what is on her mind, like David said, and put her straight with my financial situation.
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How much is her ex husband asking to let her go and the children go? Consider he knows she is marrying a foreigner? How much is he asking for? And if she knows you have the money, she may want you to just pay it and not fight him.
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Philip
For my 2 cents worth...there are red flags flying in the wind here !!!!!
Last night, on QQ I asked Ming about the cost of weddings in China. I made no mention of any figure I had in my mind.
She thought for a little while and advised that for "our" wedding, there would be about 60 guests, some from out of town and would I consider paying for their travel and accomodation in the all-up cost of our wedding. I said yes.
I also asked if she would include any cost of a "dowry" to her parents and she was amused about this and adsvised that because it is her second marriage they would not expect a dowry, but it would be honourable to buy them each a nice present.
She also said that any costs for a honeymoon should not be part of the wedding cost because together we may decide to go anywhere we wish.
So.....to cut to the chase, a good wedding in Chengdu for 60 guests, without being too concerned to do it on the cheap, and including all ancilliary services...limos, hair dresser, clothes, gifts etc etc etc, she says will cost "about 30,000 RMB"
I then said that I have heard that some weddings cost 200,000 RMB and her comment was......"Maybe the Premier and all the Ministers were invited...)hehehehe)"
Cheers
David
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Phillip,
I agree with david, there are many many red flags here. So much money, even the brother is suspicious. The choice is yours brother, obviously. But if it were me, I would do some serious thinking on this.
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I then said that I have heard that some weddings cost 200,000 RMB and her comment was......"Maybe the Premier and all the Ministers were invited...)hehehehe)"
HAHAHAHAHAHA. Too funny!
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I then said that I have heard that some weddings cost 200,000 RMB and her comment was......"Maybe the Premier and all the Ministers were invited...)hehehehe)"
HAHAHAHAHAHA. Too funny!
The inside joke is that Martin sent an invitation to Yao Ming and he didn't show up for Zhifang & Martin's nuptials in Hunan. Playing basketball in the US was more important. Inconsiderate bastard for turning down the invitation. :icon_cool: Martin was expecting a RE of 1 million RMB from him ... and a signed basketball.
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I thought I would ask Tiger Woods to come to our wedding...but I guess I would like to look forward to at least one night with my bride....which would not be a certainty with Tiger around :icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin:
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Philip
For my 2 cents worth...there are red flags flying in the wind here !!!!!
It is really hard to know what people are really like. The most reliable way of knowing how someone will act in the future is by observing how they have acted in the past. It is, in my opinion, more important to watch how people act, than what they say.
It would be worth reflecting on what she has asked you (for an expensive wedding) and her response to your request that the matter be reconsidered (threatening to end the relationship).
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Yes I'll also add there are massive red flags here. £5000 is 5 years salary for my girl (who has a decent middle class job) - that is enough money to employ/pay off a small town!!!!
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I'm glad I didn't panic about red flags and applied the 24-hour rule before finding out the facts. There is something called translation difficulties which can happen when you are corresponding in a different language. The 200000 she was talking about refers to the total amount I am likely to spend from my first visit to China until the time her and her children come to England. Considering that I will be visiting 4 or 5 times in total, having the wedding, getting the visa, arranging flights for her and two children, that figure is probably not far off the mark.
So, I am glad I kept my cool and applied the 24-hour rule. It is one disadvantage to being off the EMFs, but we got it sorted, despite the translation misunderstandings.
200000 has gone down to 0 in terms of what I'm paying to register our marriage. The wedding dinner in April will cost a few pennies more, but I don't think Paris Hilton will want an invite. It will be modest.
Hopefully both me and my lady will be able to get some sleep tonight!
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Personally I would not give any amount until after marriage. I think you have a tiger by the tail here. Careful in your future movements.
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200000 has gone down to 0 in terms of what I'm paying to register our marriage. The wedding dinner in April will cost a few pennies more, but I don't think Paris Hilton will want an invite. It will be modest.
Hopefully both me and my lady will be able to get some sleep tonight!
The problem you are going to have is growing by the month as more and more of us are taking up residents in China and even if Paris Hilton is not coming we are all expecting an invite cos it looks like it is going to be a real posh wedding.
Willy
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Personally I would not give any amount until after marriage. I think you have a tiger by the tail here. Careful in your future movements.
No Vince, as I said the contribution to the wedding has dwindled to a more manageable zero.
But you'd make a good Chinese astrologer. Her Chinese astrological sign is the Tiger. I am a Cat (or Rabbit), so even though I have claws too, I am not going to take this tiger by the tail. I'll probably have to rely on my cleverness, good luck or plain gentleness. Nobody likes having their fur stroked the wrong way, but everybody likes it stroked the right way. Sorry, I seemed to have carried this metaphor a bit too far.
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Philip,
No one has said it yet, I believe, but if I were you I would be VERY thankful to have a future brother-in-law that looks out for you like that!
Scott
Thank you for saying that, Scott. As well as saving our marriage before it even started, he is flying from Guangzhou to Changsha for one day, just to meet us. And this from a very busy businessman, who had said before that he was so busy at work that wouldn't be able to see me this trip. That's what I call a good guy and a loyal brother. I would be grateful for any suggestions for a gift I can get for him.
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Am I the only one who's still suspicious?
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The 200000 she was talking about refers to the total amount I am likely to spend from my first visit to China until the time her and her children come to England.
Philip
I am not sure how consistent this explanation is with what her brother had written to you, and consistent with the way she acted when you told her that you thought that the amount she suggested was excessive.
I think this is a situation where you need to take care to get to know her well and to see what she is really like. This might take some time.
Danny
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Whoa!! hold on here, be watchful Yes, but a brother sister conspiracy, ...i doubt it!!
This is i think, a case of you guy's going over to China, and spending money like it grows on tree's (as far as some of these Chinese ladies are conserned anyway). Many of these ladies see you spending this money, and it can really give them a lot of false impressions about your available cash assets.
You have to make it very clear from the off, that your not a wealthy man in your own country, even if it appears so when your in China...
So when you go buying Computers and other expensive gizmo's for your ladies, make it clear, that this is an investment in your ongoing relationship, and not ''Presents''
But i do agree with being sensible, watchful, and using your commonsense when red flags like these crop up. Communication can tell you a lot of things in these circumstances!!!
David....
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Whoa!! hold on here, be watchful Yes, but a brother sister conspiracy, ...i doubt it!!
This is i think, a case of you guy's going over to China, and spending money like it grows on tree's (as far as some these Chinese ladies are conserned anyway). Many of these ladies see you spending this money, and it gives them a lot of false impressions about your available cash assets.
You have to make it very clear from the off, that your not a wealthy man in your own country, even if it appears so when your in China...
So when you go buying Computers and other expensive gizmo's for your ladies, make it clear, that this is an investment in your ongoing relationship, and not ''Presents''
But i do agree with being sensible, watchful, and using your commonsense when red flags like these crop up. Communication can tell you a lot of things in these circumstances!!!
David....
Thanks David. You talk sense. I wouldn't have started this thread if I wasn't watchful and cautious.
But, having met her brother and his family, I have gained a lot of respect for him. You have to be able to have trust in people, otherwise, you will see conspiracies around every corner. He has made business trips to Europe and the States. He has even been to England - an affiliated company in Exeter. He knows about the standard of living in other countries.
She doesn't. She has never been on a plane before, let alone been outside China. Her understanding of relative wealth is not good, even though I have tried to make it clear I'm not rich. She also worries about everything and wants to dot the i's and cross the t's.
I will acknowledge that my attempt to buy her a computer may have contributed to a false impression. Frankly, the fact that I was prepared to pay so much for a computer was the thing that made her stop me buying it for her.
I will continue, as I always have, to take people as I find them, and balance my trust in people with my natural skepticism.
My eyes are open.
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philip your right you have to have a certain amount of trust in people
and from what you said your lady was thinking in terms of total cost from beginning until
she is with you? i think that is what she is saying
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Call me cynical but I'll say my piece. Sorry Philip, I would've written more earlier. I was on an on site consulting gig and didn't have much free time. Here's what I am thinking. Again I am not saying I am right and I am not saying I am wrong, but i just just offering my thoughts as a consideration.
Despite what people people say, money is a big deal in a relationship. The 5000 pounds you send her is a lot of money in China, 50000RMB which is almost 3-4 years salary for a average job in the middle size cities. Divorces do not cost that much in China, my brother did one and it was less then 2000RMB. The only reason why I think it would be so much would be to payoff the ex husband (if she was willing to payoff rather then fight since its your money, that's a concern too). Also you said she quit her job, but it will be at least an year or two before she can leave China so how does she expect to live? Have you support her?
Her story of 200000RMB doesn't make sense. Specially when you said how she suggestion breaking everything off after you said no. It seems like she thinks you are made of money and doesn't realized your finances. Her brother is good and is a helpful guy who knows what it really is and is able to talk to her. But he is not your wife and not her husband. After you and her move to the UK, what happens when there is a money conflict? Unless she understands the situation there will be a lot of arguments in the relationship. Will you call him to help every-time?
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Good points Regnis about the brother, Philip really does need to work this out with his lady without needing to lean on the brother.
£5000 IS a huge amount in China, how come the globe trotting brother didn't help her out with this ?, it doesn't sit right with me.
You wrote "legal fees for custody of her children from her ex-husband and pay to arrange our wedding" - so if the 5K was used for the wedding already (it seems about right along with the custody money) where on earth does the 200,000 RMB come in? I am not buying the oh its for flights and everything story, that sounds like she is covering her tracks.
I may be way off the mark with all of this, but when a lady asks for so much money AFTER you already sent her £5000, then alarm bells do start to ring.
I wonder if the married guys could ask their wives opinion on all of this to get the view from the other side as it were? maybe we are missing something that would be obvious to them?
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Hi Phillip,
I have kept quiet on this one for a while and like you I read all that has been said. Having met up with you I know that you are a really nice guy and that this lady means a lot to you. But being a nice guys means that your probably very open to be taken advantage off if you do not fully make aware your position to this lady. And taking advantage may not be intentional on her part but it is something that soon can become a habit as I found with one lady I spent a little time with!
I am sure that if her brother has become involved and as a busy man he must realise that there is good reasons why he would take the trouble to sort of mediate between you both. If he was not sure of his sisters feelings towards you then I personally cannot see him going to the lengths he is doing when his work duties have a heavy call on him.
I know you are a cautious fellow but love can blow ones usual cautiousness into pieces, so at the first opportunity sort out this question on finances. If she is just after money, and I think that is unlikely after what you told me at our last get together, but if she is or if she isn't then it is far better to know either way sooner rather than later.
Willy
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Philip: I haven't met you like Willy has but I still wish and hope all the best for my fellow brotherhood here. I don't think she is after money but I think she has an unrealistic expectation of how much you and westerners make.
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Like i said above in my last post, i'm pretty sure this is a case of false impressions of Philips wealth. Yes i think her explanations are back tracking, and bear little resemblance on her initial claims, but i get the impression that her brother has sorted her out on that score. She's made a big mistake, and is covering up to save Face, ....that's fine!!!
I'm afraid this is what can happen if you are not clear from the off, that your not a wealthy man in your own country. You have to remember that some of the purchases that you make in China is equivalent to months and months of there salary, it's very easy for them to think this is a normal thing for us westerners. The dollar sign's can then start spinning away in there minds!! ...haha!!
I'm pretty sure that all this misunderstanding can be sorted out amicably between them, once she fully understands Philips economic situation. So yes he needs to be cautious, he needs to be watchful and all the other things that spring into our minds when we see a red flag pop-up, but i'm pretty sure this was a finance assumption that went very wrong.
Remember she did stop him buying that computer, because she thought it was too expensive. Not something a money grabber would do, when it was being bought for her!!!
I think we should all back away now and let Philip and his lady sort this one out between themselves now. He's had plenty of good feed back, it's now up to Philip and his lady to bring everything together and move on.....
David....
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Money is still an issue for me as well. I thought my lady was better off than I thought (she has a decent PC and they have a big widescreen TV and blinged up apartment) but I didn't find out her salary until I got home. The green tea and books they bought me must have cost a lot to them. On the other hand I bought my girl a coat that would have cost her 3 weeks salary. I can only imagine the money hassles we will have if it gets to the marriage stage.
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Irish I did ask my wife what she thought.About all of this.She said almost the same thing David50 said.She said Phillip went to China was going to buy the computer.So his lady started seeing dollar signs.
Phillip just needs to talk to his lady.And get all of her expectations worked out.Tell her where he really stands as far as money and love.What he is willing to do.And what he can afford to do.
As far as using her brother to help.Yes good job Phillip.I've had to use my mother inlaw a couple of times.To get my wife to settle down and start thinking.About the other side of this.I thought one time my mother in law was going to jump threw the computer.And beat the hell out of my wife.My wife had made her mother so mad with unreasonable demands.My mother in law finally told my wife..Just to settle down and see it from both sides.
So yes use every rescource you have on hand.Preconceived notions can and will wreck these kind of relationships.If it is not stopped before it can get started..
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Thanks Willy, David and Maxx.
I have just got off the line to my lady.
I have told her we will have a serious and frank discussion about money and our financial future when I get to China. She was happy with this. I told her I wanted to discuss it face to face, not over the internet. She agreed.
I get the impression from her present attitude that her brother must have given her a right telling off. Nothing she has said, but just from a certain contriteness in her attitude over the past few days.
I know I am marrying her, not her brother, but I will not be mislaying his phone number when we are living in England.
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Happy it seems to work out for you Philip
Peter
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Congrats! I hope it works out!
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Great Phillip , a new starting point for the both of you . Here you have the chance to show her in black and white the figures/number's to keep both of you happy and above water financially . Don't want the Boat to take on water before it leaves the Dock .
Ahhh ... to have a Brother , even if it's somebody else's .
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good to see things are working out for you two
keep it up and congrats
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I'm new to this discussion, but my mind must just see things differently. Phillip you did the right thing starting this thread as love can blind you. Having others see your situation from the outside with clear vision is most valuable.
If my lady told me that she was walking if I didn't come up the the money she wanted for the wedding I would pull back big time. You talk highly of the her brother bailing you two out of this situation, but will he always have to do this? My feeling, and I'm going to tell you straight the way I see it is that this is what you might be getting all the time. Do you want to live like that? Correct me if I'm wrong but when she is living with you your marriage is under the jurisdiction of the British goverment province/state/ burrough. God forbid if she divorces you in your country can she rake you over the coals for your assets? Something to think about.
I did buy a company laptop for my ex as she was working for my company after we got together. Long story short I had to bug the h*** out of her for that laptop back. She got many nice things from me that collectively cost a lot of money by American standards. I took care of her, but I was going to fight for that d*** laptop. It was company property and I fought like a Chinese person would fight for a lower price. I eventually out willed her, and she relented and sent it back. She wanted to keep that thing, and thought if she kept making excuses I would just give up, but that was my way of saving my own face lol.
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I think 2010 is going to be a very special year for the Brothers on this Forum.
Danny, Shaun, Neil, Rob, Phillip, Mike, David E and any other I have missed - maybe me as well.
Willy
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Willy maybe you???? you getting cold feet?????
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Willy, thanks for the positive affirmation. --Shaun
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Willy maybe you???? you getting cold feet?????
No cold feet here Ted - that maybe is highly possible - just didn't want to put myself to the top of the list. :icon_cool:
Willy
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good to hear willy you two make a great couple