China Romance
General Discussion and Useful Links => Useful Links And Articles => Topic started by: ttwjr32 on April 13, 2010, 07:01:19 pm
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To all members.I split these spots off of David E's thread.I thought it was such a important topic.That it deserved its own thread.
Maxx.
Wow David so many factors involved in this decision that must be
discussed between the two of you. but i wouldn't come
right out and tell her NO! discuss and re discuss between
the two of you and i am sure that the both of you will
come to the decision that is right for the both of you
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David E,
How old is Ming now?? All i can say here, is that the medical profession say that over 40, and with long spans between births, or first pregnancies. There is the possibilities of many complications for both baby and mother. Those risks increase as the mothers age increases....
David........
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Yeah Mike....it's like the slow drip...the Chinese water torture...always quietly in the background !!
Dave, I have been through all the potential Medical dangers, she is 44, and long time between pregnancies is not a good prognosis.
I am nealy 60 and I full well know the risks of Fathering a child at my age........never mind the issues of having a teenage child push me around in a wheelchair, while I dribble into my napkin !!!!
I will continue to genly work away at the negatives, and keep re-inforcing the positives, of not having more kids...but its gonna be a long row to hoe :icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin:
David
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I had better step in here and say at getting closer to 61 each day I reckon kids are great. Provided they are NOT mine.
My wifes niece comes to our home about 4 or 5 times a week and at 14 months she is great. But I am certainly glad that she goes back home after an hour or two.
Like David E says at our age kids are for younger parents to have.
How can we enjoy ourself into our twilight years whilst we have a child that needs feeding, changing for a year or two then onto teething and then loosing it teeth then becoming a teenager then a student and then by the time we are really old or probably dead they are wanting to get married have children and dump them on the grandparents whilst they go off to work.
Keep your principles David and say no to drudges.
Willy
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Peggy tells me she does not want any more children. I hope she remains that way. She doesn't even want to be the full time caretaker of her granddaughter. She doesn't mind it for a week but that is about her limit.
David, dribbling into a napkin and in a wheel chair is the image I have when the next child would be a teenager. If my heart survives everything else it will not survive a hot headed 16 year old boy pushing me in a wheel chair. It will never happen. I can say that with confidence. Peggy does not know how to get onto this site, yet.
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Yeah Mike....it's like the slow drip...the Chinese water torture...always quietly in the background !!
Dave, I have been through all the potential Medical dangers, she is 44, and long time between pregnancies is not a good prognosis.
I am nealy 60 and I full well know the risks of Fathering a child at my age........never mind the issues of having a teenage child push me around in a wheelchair, while I dribble into my napkin !!!!
I will continue to genly work away at the negatives, and keep re-inforcing the positives, of not having more kids...but its gonna be a long row to hoe :icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin:
David
Hmm, ever thought of ADOPTING a certain little Scottish boy? Apparently he's very famous too, hehe... :icon_cheesygrin:
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Shaun you were dribbling at the table when you were in Guangzhou
i told Sisi you just had a hole in your lip lol!!!!!!!!
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David, I hope you have a great and memorable trip. Every time I read your thoughts it brought back mine at that time in my relationship with Gina.. It sounds like you got a good one. And those of us who have been fortunate are waiting for you to join the married ranks. Good on ya mate. Your trip is just beginning now. Am really happy for you.
Oh and the baby issue is not dead, dont for a minute believe it is. it is a scary thought and I never thought I would try for another child but she has me convinced now that it is the right thing to do. You will probably cave in to, because these women are not to be denied. Have a safe trip.
Jim
I see Gina has finally got you steered in the direction she wants you to go !!!
I get the same feeling with Ming, in that she will quietly and gently (and with persistence), pick away at this difficult (for me !!) subject.
I am a bit worried about being slowly drawn into agreeing with her...hence my nerves !! (I know that I am up against an expert here !!)
How did you cope mentally with the idea of another child ??...maybe you are a lot younger than me...and the thought of this gets me very much on edge !!
Cheers
David
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as long as you can still help him or her to develop their SKILLS IN LIFE
and be there to CARE and SUPERVISE their ACTIVITIES and be an ACTIVE
PARTICIPANT in their LIFE then you are not to old to father a child. remembering
all the time and patience and nurturing that goes into the raising of the child. if
you keep these points in mind and can answer yes to all and make that commitment
then the age shouldnt be a factor.
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Ted,
At nearly 60 years of age, the very last thing on your mind is starting another family!! This is the time to lay back and enjoy the fruits of all those years working and bringing up children. This is supposed to be OUR time in life, to do what we want to do for a change, without the responibilities and commitments for careing about kids !!!
Lets face it, we no longer have the will we had before, or the patience, to be parents of babies and young children. What you talk about above is fine, ....as ''Grandparents'' and then thank god, ...you can hand them back again after a few hours...lol!!!
David....
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Ted,
Yes what you say is correct, but there is also the resposiblity of starting another family late on in life. They say that the average life span for a western male is around 70, So in your case if you started another family now, your possibly not going to be around, much past that childs 16th birthday... That's Probably the worst time in a teenagers life to loose a father. For me, and David E, that child would only be around 11 or 12 years old!!!!
There are so many things that we, as responsible adults should think long and hard about before embarking down these sort of roads, apart from what i've already posted on this thread subject.....
David....
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sure but again it is a matter of ones choice. everyone would and will
have a different perspective on this. but i wouldnt go as far as saying
having a child late in life is irresponsible unless of course that child wasnt
planned or wanted then that becomes a irresponsible act. there are many
young people who have children who should never had any children at all.
again its all a matter of a decision to be made by two people what suits one
couple might not suit another.
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Ted,
God, your dead right there Ted, about some of these young people. Some of them are not capable of looking after themselves, let alone babies/children. A total lack of knowing what responsbility in life actually means...
But there goes the difference, they lack that maturity to be able to make those important decissions in life!! We on the other hand do, or should have that maturity, and know what our responsibilities are....
David....
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Look, my wife doesnt come here or knows how. I told her we could TRY for a baby. But that my little men couldnt swim all that well anymore. I am waiting for her to start helping with the babies here and hoping she will see the work involved and they as grandchildren will fulfill her need. Seeing that we will be able to do the things we want when we send them back home. That is my dearest hope anyway. I think she has a need because she has been allowed only one child plus all of her family has only had girls and she wants a boy very very much. When she told her mother that I had agreed to try, her mother started crying. So we will see what happens. Underneath it all. Part of me does want a son. But the bigger part tells me the things that David was talking about. It has to be an individual choice. There are so many factors to be considered. Sorry I couldnt help you more.
Jim
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I for one am too old for this. The dog and I went to the vet years ago as he had a "twofer" going...:icon_cheesygrin:
Willy don't want kids as he's "all thumbs" at changing dirty diapers...and the chocklet tastes wierd....:icon_cheesygrin:
Shaun is the same year old as me, and raising a teenager would be just too much for that old man....:icon_cheesygrin:
All you younger ones, prepair to own at least half of the kimbi's factory and endure the smell of dirty diapers all over the
house, and living in hell for 18 years, poor broke and starving...:s
but hey the choice is yours. For those who are still into it, I suggest you go to the hospital maternity ward and listen
to the kids scream, and smell the air, as this will change your mind quickly...oh and don't forget those 3am feedings
where your the one getting up. If its a girl, prepaire to shell out all kinds of money on clothes for 18 years also...:-/
well, youve been warned....heh heh....just don't bring em to my house for sitting.....:icon_cheesygrin:
By the way, this is a very interesting thread, a first timer and excellent idea !!!!
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Shaun you were dribbling at the table when you were in Guangzhou
i told Sisi you just had a hole in your lip lol!!!!!!!!
Yes Ted, Peggy made me take the lip piercing out while I was in China so there is a weep hole. That is my story and I am sticking to it.
I just finished raising a teenager. I almost killed this one... not really... but the thought ran through my mind often... After raising 3 I don't think I got enough in me to do it again. It might kill me.
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Thanks but as you are well aware, condolences would be more appropriate.
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Here is my Story about Babies .
Qing and I were talking of having a little Girl way before my first Trip to see her . We even had picked a name already for her ( Angelia ) . When I was in Shanghai last for the Interview , we both went to this very famous Doctor ( in china ) that helps with People that have trouble conceiving . I do to this day , have Herb's at Home that I use every day to bust my Count up some notches . Qing drinks her's , which is Cooked first . Three weeks ago , we both thought .. she was Pregnant and did the at Home self-test . That was a negative though . So , we still look at it .. if it happens great ( of course after thinking it over and over because of my and Qing's age ) if not that's ok too . Her Mom really want's a Grand-daughter , but .. it's us bringing it up .. so it's not all rosey . I know very well , how much work a little one can be and being a young teen or adult doesn't make it one bit easier . Let's just say , it's in God's hands .
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Zhifang and I plan to have a child, but first I have to have a vasectomy reversal.
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If Peggy decides she wants a child I will be happy to help out in the trying part. I might even tell her I had a vasectomy but I don't think I want to tell her what a vasectomy is. :icon_cheesygrin:
OK Davide5o you got it. :icon_twisted::icon_twisted::icon_lol:
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Shaun,
You little Devil you!!! hahaha!!
David....
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so you will offer to help but leave out a few details i see Shaun
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Shaun,
Very Smart!!!! A winner all round...lol!!
Now, ....what was you saying about ''what would Peggy think if she happened to read this'' ??? hahaha!!!!
David.....
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Well I can see a few posts that need deleting. :dodgy:
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Shaun,
Exactly my point on another thread where we were talking about inviting girlfriends etc.
Your replies will become muted, and bear little resemblance to your real thoughts on the matter in hand, if you bother to post at all. Just defeats the whole point of the Forum!!!
To be honest, ...I'm quite shocked that you would actually contemplate deleting any of your posts!!!
Is It Really Worth It ????
David....
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Martin, that's called a "vasio-vasio" sectomy, and you will only be 50 percent restored. That is what they told me. Also after they
get done, you may loose weight as your potent agian. Hell, I might try that myself...LOL ....then the dog will get jelious...:icon_cheesygrin:
Shaun, don't be afraid of that nice man in the surgery clothes who wears a mask and holds a very sharp knife....:icon_cheesygrin: He is
there to help you and Peggy realize 18 more years of dirty diapers, empty wallets, screaming and noise, and visits from the sheriff...:icon_cheesygrin: :icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin:
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David,
I go back and forth on the subject. When I first joined it felt like a safe zone to talk. Then again, a few wives have joined and then disappear. But do they really? I think women being here is all good until I think of Peggy being on this site. :s
Not sure what the answer is.
Shaun
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Shaun,
Easy, ....if your worried about anything don't invite her onto the Forum!!!!
David....
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I had a girl friend once that was as honest and as truthful as the day is long.
She came to me one evening and whispered in my ear that she was pregant.
I told her that I thought that it was great and that it was going to save me a lot of money having the reversal operation!!!!
Willy
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Shaun,
Easy, ....if your worried about anything don't invite her onto the Forum!!!!
David....
Shaun. THAT is very good advice, look what happened to me...:huh:
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Shaun, don't worry old buddy your in safe hands, Willy has printed out everything....:icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin: I'm sure he would not
open those files....or would he....music from twilight zone plays........
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Point understood and taken.
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Not sure if this merits a topic in its own right but here goes.
I have discussed having children with my future Lao Po and she has worries about bringing up a child in the west without her mother living in house helping her.
In China it seems to be the norm for the mother in law to live in house and basically act as a nanny or surrogate second mother to the child.
I discussed this with a colleague in work who is Chinese and he suggested hiring a Chinese nanny for the first few months instead as a solution.
Have you guys discussed this with your wives or if you already have a wife and kid in the west, how did you take care of the first one especially?
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Irish,
Peggy has a 2 year old granddaughter. Her daughter constantly asks her to come live with them and take care of her granddaughter. Peggy refuses. When she does go, she tells me she will be gone two weeks and is always back in one. She tells me she has raised her kinds and now wants to find a happy life for herself. Peggy does get along very well with her granddaughter and many times our web-cam visits are interrupted by a visit from the granddaughter. It is charming when it happens.
I can't tell you if this a result of the new modern Chinese woman or not. I don't ask her about it much because I am the benefactor of Peggy's attention a lot and I like it. :icon_biggrin:
Shaun
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This is a touchy subject . To this day , I still don't know if Qing really meant it .. when she said . If we have a Child we can alway's send it to my Parents , as I need to work here because of the Economy being so bad . Talk about how quilty I would feel doing that to the 60's plus Parent's . They take care of Qing's Son ( 8 ) already which is a blessing by itself . But , I'm leaning towards .. that she really means it .
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Touchy subject indeed. But i feel it is one that needs to be discussed and an agreement
reached between both parties. But i do know that in the west we do not for the most part
depend on our parents to raise our children and it has not caused a major development in the
way the children turn out. In fact it is quite the opposite there were children raised without
parental intervention are usually the ones who turn out a little disfunctional. Part of the reason
for that in China is the shear competitiveness for jobs out there with the amount of people looking
or seeking work and that requires many long hours working for subpar wages and being at the disposal
of a company that for lack of a better description abuses the hell out of their employees. Also their is
that discrimination towards anyone over a certain age that makes them disposable at any time. in other words
no labor laws so to speek of. That is not the case in the west if you do your job. What is exactly the purpose of
a child if your going to send him or her 7500 miles away to be raised?? Seems to me that defeats the whole
purpose as to why you would want a child.It again all goes back to you have to blend the good from both
cultures into one household and that decision should be discussed and agreed upon by both parties before
you even embark on something like this. I might be old fashioned in the sense that if i was to have children
again then it would be because of the love that my wife and i have together and we should be there to share
and grow and develop that child not grandma and grandpa . Children dont ask to be brought into the world they
are brought into the world by two people who should accept and nurture them. its not all about the almighty
dollar and if you do have a nanny it should be based on responsibilty not nationality. sorry i feel so strongly
about this but i have just seen to much in all my years and wonder why ok now that i probably made a few people
mad i will stop now.
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Ted, good and interesting points.
There is one more aspect to bring to the table here. My Chinese colleague tells me there is more to having the parent take care of the child post pregnancy, there is taking care of the wife too. Apparently there are special foods to be eaten after the child birth for the first month or so that is considered very important. Now I don't know the first thing about these "special foods" or how and when to prepare them. These are supposed to be things passed on from mother to daughter.
So having a child mean you gotta take care of the kid and the mother in a certain way at least that's the way it seems.
My own take on it is that after the first one there wont be the same worries or fears on both sides so we can probably do it more western style, i.e. go it pretty much alone.
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Ronan,
Can't remember exactly in what thread, but Maxx has posted on exactly this topic. I think much of his post was based on his own wife having there first child..... And yes!!, they do have some strange customs when it comes to caring for newborns and the mother, ....pre and post birth!!! lol!!
David....
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The Chinese have all sorts of special foods and what you should eat and when. Some good
and some old wives tales so to speak. But i think we could rule out beer and whiskey. When
my wife was pregnant she craved and ate ice cream, certain different candy bars,pickles,
and hoagies now if i would mention these items to my wife now she would probably have a
fit. but everything turned out well with the kidsand including her weight after pregnancy in fact i think i picked
up all the weight from the pregnancy. and still have it hahahaha what about moving your
mother n law in with you? is that an option to settle and have Sunny feel better in this
situation? We had a housekeeper for 12 years that lived in with us but all she did was cook and clean
and did the food shopping as we took the sole responsibility of rearing the kids. probably would have
had her a few more years but she was in a car accident and died when a drunk driver hit her car.
She was a really a joy of a lady who didnt deserve what happened to her and all those years she helped
to alleviate things around the house for us so WE could be the parents to our kids even more so. we must have
done somethig right because both our sons have big families and are a big part in their childrens lives all 7 of them
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Different countrries, different culture, different customs!!! Customs tend to work best in the countries and culture where they originate from, less so where they are considered ''Inappropriate''.
This is especially the case where particular customs from another culture are considered to be totally ''Alien''
The older customs tend to be born out of necessity and/or making life easier for individules and families. So don't take your customs to a foreign country and expect them to be respected, and likewise, for those coming from foreign countries, shouldn't expect their customs to be respected either...
In the case of mixed culture marriages, ...then each have to respect and blend the two cultures and customs the best way they can. Where children are conserned, that can be harder than you first thought!! ....But not insolvable with a little compromise and understanding from both sides.....
David.......
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Guys,
What you're talking about is the confinement period. For 30 days after the birth, the mother and child aren't really supposed to leave the house. This is because of the belief that the mother's body has been severely weakened by the birth, so this period is to help her build up her strength again and to help with providing food for the newborn. Whether this is necessary in this age, maybe, maybe not (this tradition goes back at least hundreds if not thousands of years), but is still practiced.
How each family practices the traditions is different. For example, there is the belief that the mother should not take a shower (she is allowed to wipe off) or bath as that will open up her body to catching a cold or flu more easily (remember, many of the houses in the countryside don't have the bathroom in the same building as the rest of the house...and little heating back then). Others... no fried foods...and must have red-date soup among the foods consumed. Others believe no "heating" foods...
Besides, remember that many of our cultural quirks are also strange to them...
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Ok guys Iv'e read all your posts and most of you have got it real close to right.As far as me and my wife and her family are concerned.Yes when the kid is born it is Chinese custom for grandparents to take care of the kid.For the first 30 days.Just like mustfocus said.And for the same reasons he said.Plus a few more.That have to do with Chinese customs.Infinite mortality rates is still very high in some parts of China.So what has worked in the past to keep the mother and the baby alive is still practiced today.
Grandparents taking care of the kids.Is still practiced.And is expected.Do not be suprised 30 days after the new baby.Your wife tells you she wants to send the kid to China.Or have her mother live with you.So that her parents can take care of the kid.The reason being is.The chase of the almighty doller.And Chinese wisdom.The older generation is supposed to be wiser.Because they have done this before.So they know how to take care of babies.It does not matter.If you have had kids from a previose marraige.You still do not know anything.About babies or how to take care of them.Her mother knows better then you do.And her mother knows more about raising kids.Then your own mother.So be prepared.Be prepaired to have those kids with you all the time.The only exceptable baby sitter is her mother.And your mother for a short time..Maybe a couple of hours.
You do have to blend the 2 cultures.When the kids are sick or just uncomfortable.Let your wife call her mother.And follow what her mothers advises.Untill it becomes dangerouse or hazerdouse to there health.Don't be suprised if you have to drive 30 miles in a ragging blizard to get the special food.Right after the baby is born.Don't be suprized if your wife refuses to wash her hair for a week after the baby is born.These things.Have ben passesd down for centuries.And you are not going to change her mind.
If you want to hold the baby it is ok.As long as your wife or her mother are there to supervise you.At no time are you allowed to hold the baby without your wife there.For the first five months.If you break this rule.I guarantee there will be hell to pay.
Each women is going to act a little different before and after the baby is born.Mood swings seem to be normal.Post partem depression.seems to run rampent for about 3 weaks after the baby is born.I have seen the depression in a couple of my wifes family members.It can go from a little depression.To full blown depresion.Where you need to watch your wife and the baby closely.
As far as the kids living with there grandparents.That was not a option for me.I was not real comfortable with that.So we worked out a comprimise.I did everything her mother would do for the first month.Then After are oldest was three months old.We took him to China.And left him with her mother for a weak.With the youngest boy.I did it all again.And they are all going to China next spring to stay for a couple of months.I will stay here and work.Or I mite help my wife get her and the boys to China.Then I will go to Bangkok or Okinawa or Japan.For a couple of weaks.Then come back to the states.I havent decided yet.
If the baby is born in your country.It is going to be a struggle for your wife.Everything from the doctor visits to the delivary of the baby.They do things so different in the west then they do in China.When it comes to the pregnancy and the delivary of the baby.So be ready to explain whats going on.And why the doctors did what they did.Especially if this is your wifes first child.
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I believe the 30 day confinement is because any doctor will tell you that if you boogie-woogie in that 30 days, she is ripe for
getting pregnate agian, because of the hormones or somthing. Perhaps that is why the rule or China would be overrun with
kids. (more than it is now).
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Rocky no that isn't it.The thirty day bed rest is a Chinese thing.You are not supposed to be getting any for 6 weeks after the baby is born.Because of the risk of infection.And uncontrolable bleeding.Because the uteris isn't back to it's normal size.
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I am not trying to be obnoxious but how do they think their husbands wound up just fine in this world? I agree with the blending of 2 cultures but I think sometimes from what I am reading and experiencing, a little, it is more of us doing the blending than they do. I am sore glad I am past all of the children bearing issues. It does give me insight though. Peggy keeps telling me that she will take very good care of my grand`children when my children start having them. I guess I had better prepare my kids for it.
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Shaun yes in the beggining you are doing most of the adapting.They pick up more of your culture and customs.The longer your married.My wife has adapeted very well to American culture.While still maintaning allot of her Chinese customs and culture.
I asked my wife the same thing.How did I ever make it past being a baby,My wife said my mother helped.And I was dammed lucky.
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Shaun,
Yes your right,.... I too have noticed that many of the Bros here are doing far more, if not all of the bending in there relationships. I'm sure they forget it takes TWO people to have a relationship!!
The way i dealt with this In my own case, was that anything that i wasn't all that bothered about, or care about one way or the other i let her have her way. Anything i had strong feelings about, i put my foot down and said NO!!!
I am probably far luckier than most here, as Lucy had already a fair experience of western ways, and actually welcomed many of them. So had i expect, a far easier time than most....
So my advise to those here is, bend when issues make little difference to you one way or the other, but put your foot down when they do....With all issues that arise, there is always a compromise to be found somewhere in there, that will satisfy to some extent, .... both of you. Far better than your total capitulation every time an issue arises.... Yes??
David...
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Maxx. LMAO. It is true that most of us are lucky that we made it to this point but it isn't for the same reason she is thinking. :angel:
David, I agree. I guess another way to say it is choose your battles. I love some of the things she is bringing into the relationship. The one big battle that continues for now is about food. She thinks I eat to much prepared and frozen foods. She tells me I should buy fresh almost every day. I say yes dear, when time permits I will do that. In reality I will wait until she gets here and sees how difficult that is.
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Shaun,
Once she gets to the States, it'll be her problem, ....not yours ...lol!! Believe me, she WILL do her very best to get that fresh food she was talking about!!
David.....
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I might as well sell the freezer now and used the money to go back to China. :icon_cheesygrin:
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Shaun,
Freezer stuff is basically fine, especially meat. ...What they cant understand and don't like , is the ready meals stuff and any sort of ''processed foods''!!! They won't have any in the house!! ....lol!!!
David....
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the freezer is ok and yes dont you agree the processed ready made food that
you just throw in the microwave isnt really that good for you but we tend to eat
a lot of it at home. but i must say mine adapted and went to the grocery store or the
weekend farmers markets and managed to get fresh that we would eat for a few days.
took a little while to get used to you just dont go to the vegetable market evryday to
buy what you wanted. and not looking into the eyes of what you were going to eat was
a little different at first also.
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I showed Peggy the inside of my upright freezer and she shook her head and said "not good. Fresh food." Or maybe it was the horses head. :angel: I don't know. :huh:
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shaun, just be glad you did not marry a chinese woman that washs the veggies off in the gutter or uses the garden hose...lol lol
:icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin:
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Shaun , just to make you happy , we have Aussie meals , 2 days , Chinese 5 days , meals for 3 or 4 of us if son also eats average about the same as they did before for just my son and I , and the 5 days food is a lot healthier , only use the freezer for meats [ buy on the cheap ] and vegetables and fruit bought every few days . Funny thing I bought some lamb necks for the dog , but did not realize that they were also cooked and we had eaten them until it was to late ha ha . So do not talk of battles just go with the flow it is fun , regards Robert .
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i would say FUN and INTERESTING to say the least
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I agree. I have more fun with the differences.