China Romance

All About China => Visas, Immigration and Emigration => Topic started by: Robertt S on June 17, 2012, 11:03:39 pm

Title: Obamagration and how it effects legal residents and citizens in the U.S.
Post by: Robertt S on June 17, 2012, 11:03:39 pm
Obama's move on immigration is an unconstitutional disaster for the unemployed
By Roy Beck

Published June 15, 2012

FoxNews.com

President Obama thwarted the will of Congress and shunned the 20 million under-employed and unemployed Americans by announcing he will grant work permits to 2 million to 3 million illegal immigrants.

This appears to be an unconstitutional fiat that not only usurps congressional authority to set immigration policy but directly contradicts what Congress has already decided. The president suggests that his new policy is designed to enact as much of the DREAM Act amnesty as possible because Congress hasn't acted on its own. But Congress indeed has acted -- three times in votes that rejected granting these illegal aliens the legal residency and work permits that the president now says he will deal out all by himself.

This is a knee-jerk response to pro-amnesty interest groups that have attacked Mr. Obama with an intense, well-funded public relations campaign urging him essentially to nullify congressional immigration laws because supporters of amnesty know that the elected representatives of the American people won't approve amnesties any more. Until today, the president had said that he couldn't just overturn immigration laws on his own. His capitulation may provide a short-term political payoff among some special interest groups but in the long term will feed the perception that he is much more interested in currying favor among narrow interest groups than addressing the needs of the massive ranks of the unemployed.

The unavoidable fact is that Mr. Obama's announced executive amnesty will increase the supply of legal workers to compete for jobs with the 20 million Americans who can't find a job or have been forced into part-time work. The president may think he can repeal the laws of Congress but he can't repeal the law of supply and demand.

And the increase in the labor supply will not be small. Most news reports at first suggested that around 800,000 illegal aliens would benefit from the president's offer of job permits. But that is a misinterpretation of estimates in 2010 about the effect of the DREAM Act amnesty that the lame duck Senate defeated. There were nearly 2 million illegal aliens who could qualify for the provisional part of the amnesty because they were in high school, in college or had already graduated from college. But only about 800,000 were expected to actually end up as college graduates and qualify for the permanent amnesty. Because the new Obama amnesty would not require college graduation, the 800,000 figure is no longer valid. All 2 million would qualify. In addition, the Obama amnesty would not require a person to even go to college which would add hundreds of thousands more illegal aliens to the beneficiary list.

When the president announced his new more lenient directive last summer for people who would have benefited from the DREAM amnesty, he was skating close to the legal line but probably not over it because Congress indeed has given presidents prosecutorial discretion in whether to go through the effort to deport an illegal immigrant. It also has given presidents the ability to provide temporary work permits to illegal aliens in special circumstances.

But President Obama has moved into frightening new territory with his new announcement because he has taken discretion away from his law enforcement agents and now appears to require them to grant this presence amnesty and jobs amnesty in massive numbers never intended or anticipated by Congress. And it is the jobs promise that is the most insulting and insensitive to the most vulnerable members of our national community.

The most vulnerable Americans are disproportionately black and Hispanic Americans, two voting blocs the president is counting on for his re-election. Yet, these two groups with exceptionally high unemployment among young adults are the ones who will have to compete most directly with the millions of illegal aliens that the president intends to add to the labor force.

What Mr. Obama – and all the Members of Congress proposing their own versions of a DREAM amnesty -- miss is that young illegal aliens aren't the only ones having a hard time. The country is full of American victims of this economy. The latter should not be re-victimized by efforts to help the former.

The Republican leadership in Congress may bear considerable responsibility for Mr. Obama's latest power grab. It has stood by terrified to tackle immigration priorities the last two years.. Speaker John Boehner and his team are currently center stage in blocking a mandatory E-Verify bill that would provide employment for millions of Americans by moving illegal immigrants from the very construction, hospitality, manufacturing, service and transportation jobs sought by most unemployed U.S. citizens and legal immigrants. Republican leaders have allowed Pres. Obama to ignore and modify congressional immigration laws so consistently that it isn't surprising that he thinks he can get by with this huge new executive amnesty. Perhaps this latest pandering by the president will finally move them to action to stand up for the 20 million Americans who can't find a full-time job.

Roy Beck is the founder and president of NumbersUSA.


Read more: http://www.foxnews (http://www.foxnews).c...k#ixzz1y1FVWE2y
Title: Re: Obamagration and how it effects legal residents and citizens in the U.S.
Post by: David E on June 17, 2012, 11:17:01 pm
One small issue that interest me in this debate (we are having a similar debate in Aus at this time over the granting of permission to certain Mining Magnates to inport thousands of workers on 457 (temp. worker) visas).......................

Of the 2 or 3 million illegal aliens who will benefit by this amnesty, how many are actually sitting around doing nothing vs how many are actually working (albeit illegally) in the paid work-force.

Could it be that this "legitimised" workforce will carry on just as before with minimum impact on the existing employment levels ???
Conversely, if they are all just sitting around doing nothing, with no support or welfare...then how do they live/ eat at the moment ???

Scare mongering is all very well when coming from opposing interest groups...but what are thye facts.

The issue in Aus is not so clear cut, because we virtually have no unemployment and Business is actually facing a severe shortage of workers. Forget all you read about the Mining Industry seducing workers away with huge wages, this Industry employs less than 4 % of the workforce...it is the bog-standard Industry sectors in retail and services that are suffering the shortages...and these cannot be filled with temporary migrants who cant speak decent English...

Catch 22
Title: Re: Obamagration and how it effects legal residents and citizens in the U.S.
Post by: Willy The Londoner on June 18, 2012, 04:02:16 am
I think it is just a trick to get all the illegals to come forward.  They are not being promised citizenship and they will be re assessed in two years time. 

Willy
Title: Re: Obamagration and how it effects legal residents and citizens in the U.S.
Post by: Robertt S on June 18, 2012, 06:21:34 am
I think it is just a trick to get all the illegals to come forward.  They are not being promised citizenship and they will be re assessed in two years time. 

Willy

Willy,  I think it is a trick too! I think this is his way of buying the Hispanic vote here for the upcoming election.
Title: Re: Obamagration and how it effects legal residents and citizens in the U.S.
Post by: shaun on June 18, 2012, 06:49:30 am
Robert you hit the nail right on the head.  He had to do something because he was losing the hispanic vote.  I have been reading about it in the newspapers. 

When La Raza begin talking about the lack of new immigration laws and their disappointment with Obama's talk you know the hispanic people are listening.

May 2010 Mr. Obama promised the hispanic people in a speech in El Paso, Texas that he knew that our immigration process was broke and that he would put together a think tank to find a way to make it better and productive.  He hasn't done anything which is exactly what I expected him to do.  Now he needs to find a new empty promise. i.e. amnesty to 30 years old and under.
Title: Re: Obamagration and how it effects legal residents and citizens in the U.S.
Post by: Vince G on June 18, 2012, 07:36:49 am
Propaganda alive and well in the media. As in religion, I am not political nor democratic or republican so don't start editing this post.

Here are the facts. This started with a girl in school right here in Miami that much like Obama's speech, the girl came to this country at a young age (2-3?) with her parents. I think recent (last year) her parents were deported? She is top of her class (valedictorian) and was a few months from graduating when she was told she was being deported. In trying to get help so she could graduate it lead all the way to the President in which she recently did graduate last week.

He seeing this is a problem that keeps getting pushed aside along with other proposals only for the reason to make him look bad, he took it upon himself to get something done for the others like that girl. It is not for every immigrate and it's not a free pass. It's just gives these kids leeway to finish their education. 
Title: Re: Obamagration and how it effects legal residents and citizens in the U.S.
Post by: Willy The Londoner on June 19, 2012, 08:35:30 am
I think it is just a trick to get all the illegals to come forward.  They are not being promised citizenship and they will be re assessed in two years time. 

Willy

Willy,  I think it is a trick too! I think this is his way of buying the Hispanic vote here for the upcoming election.

I wrote and told him to let in Chinese Wives as well then he could rely on at least one or two more votes from here.

Willy
Title: Re: Obamagration and how it effects legal residents and citizens in the U.S.
Post by: shaun on June 19, 2012, 08:41:17 am
I wrote him the same letter.  I think he thought I was lying...  I was.  >:(

But then again he thinks America needs to be a 3rd world nation that our superiority has been bad for the world.

I fear that very sad times are ahead of us in America if something does not change.  (Please note I am not trying to get political.  If I we to expand on this statement it would be political.)
Title: Re: Obamagration and how it effects legal residents and citizens in the U.S.
Post by: Vince G on June 19, 2012, 08:41:44 am
Just making a point here with people jumping on the knock the President bandwagon.

New Asian immigrants to US now surpass Hispanics

http://news.yahoo.com/asian-immigrants-us-now-surpass-hispanics-041526805.html (http://news.yahoo.com/asian-immigrants-us-now-surpass-hispanics-041526805.html)


WASHINGTON (AP) — For the first time, the influx of Asians moving to the U.S. has surpassed that of Hispanics, reflecting a slowdown in illegal immigration while American employers increase their demand for high-skilled workers.

An expansive study by the Pew Research Center details what it describes as "the rise of Asian-Americans," a highly diverse and fast-growing group making up nearly 6 percent of the U.S. population. Mostly foreign-born and naturalized citizens, their numbers have been boosted by increases in visas granted to specialized workers and to wealthy investors as the U.S. economy becomes driven less by manufacturing and more by technology.

"Too often the policy debates on immigration fixate on just one part — illegal immigration," said Karthick Ramakrishnan, a political science professor at the University of California-Riverside and a fellow at the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars. "U.S. immigration is more diverse and broader than that, with policy that needs to focus also on high-skilled workers." "With net migration from Mexico now at zero, the role of Asian-Americans has become more important," he said.

About 430,000 Asians, or 36 percent of all new immigrants, arrived in the U.S. in 2010, according to the latest census data. That's compared to about 370,000, or 31 percent, who were Hispanic.

The Pew analysis, released Tuesday, said the tipping point for Asian immigrants likely occurred during 2009 as illegal immigrants crossing the border from Mexico sharply declined due to increased immigration enforcement and a dwindling supply of low-wage work in the weak U.S. economy. Many Mexicans already in the U.S. have also been heading back to their country, putting recent net migration at a standstill.

As recently as 2007, about 390,000 of new immigrants to the U.S. were Asian, compared to 540,000 who were Hispanic.

The shift to increased Asian immigration, particularly of people from India, China and South Korea, coincides with changes in U.S. immigration policy dating to the 1990s that began to favor wealthy and educated workers.


Title: Re: Obamagration and how it effects legal residents and citizens in the U.S.
Post by: Robertt S on June 19, 2012, 03:38:57 pm
Just making a point here with people jumping on the knock the President bandwagon.

New Asian immigrants to US now surpass Hispanics

http://news.yahoo.com/asian-immigrants-us-now-surpass-hispanics-041526805.html (http://news.yahoo.com/asian-immigrants-us-now-surpass-hispanics-041526805.html)


WASHINGTON (AP) — For the first time, the influx of Asians moving to the U.S. has surpassed that of Hispanics, reflecting a slowdown in illegal immigration while American employers increase their demand for high-skilled workers.

An expansive study by the Pew Research Center details what it describes as "the rise of Asian-Americans," a highly diverse and fast-growing group making up nearly 6 percent of the U.S. population. Mostly foreign-born and naturalized citizens, their numbers have been boosted by increases in visas granted to specialized workers and to wealthy investors as the U.S. economy becomes driven less by manufacturing and more by technology.

"Too often the policy debates on immigration fixate on just one part — illegal immigration," said Karthick Ramakrishnan, a political science professor at the University of California-Riverside and a fellow at the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars. "U.S. immigration is more diverse and broader than that, with policy that needs to focus also on high-skilled workers." "With net migration from Mexico now at zero, the role of Asian-Americans has become more important," he said.

About 430,000 Asians, or 36 percent of all new immigrants, arrived in the U.S. in 2010, according to the latest census data. That's compared to about 370,000, or 31 percent, who were Hispanic.

The Pew analysis, released Tuesday, said the tipping point for Asian immigrants likely occurred during 2009 as illegal immigrants crossing the border from Mexico sharply declined due to increased immigration enforcement and a dwindling supply of low-wage work in the weak U.S. economy. Many Mexicans already in the U.S. have also been heading back to their country, putting recent net migration at a standstill.

As recently as 2007, about 390,000 of new immigrants to the U.S. were Asian, compared to 540,000 who were Hispanic.

The shift to increased Asian immigration, particularly of people from India, China and South Korea, coincides with changes in U.S. immigration policy dating to the 1990s that began to favor wealthy and educated workers.


That is comparing apples to oranges, they are trying to use the legal immigration numbers of Asians to convince people that illegal immigration numbers of Hispanics is shrinking.
Title: Re: Obamagration and how it effects legal residents and citizens in the U.S.
Post by: maxx on June 19, 2012, 05:53:27 pm
I don't know who wrote the article Vince posted.Or what part of the United States they live in.But this person has got his facts all wrong.If nothing else.The illegal immigrants from Mexico has tripled in the last few years.It has gotton so bad in New Mexico.That the Mexicans from Mexico out number the Native Americans by at least 2 to 1 now.

If you doubt my post.We can go set on the border and watch.The illegals coming across the border.These Mexicans have no fear of border patrol or the fences.That we have installed along the border.As far as low paying jobs.That is a bunch of bull sh*t.I know some illegal immigrants that make better money then most of us on this forum.And have better benefits.
Title: Re: Obamagration and how it effects legal residents and citizens in the U.S.
Post by: David E on June 19, 2012, 06:07:45 pm
Maxx

You can always bet your last dollar that anything funded/published with any reference to the Pew Group is so full of half-truths, misleading information and just plain lies !!!

This lot are DANGEROUS and have a very clear agenda that is totally anti-social and anti- mainstream.

They have just conned our idiot Prime Minister to close down 80 % of our fisheries areas to commercial and recreational fishing....on the basis that it will assist sustainability.

Meanwhile, umpteen fishermen are without a license, us normal folks cant chuck a line in the Ocean to catch our dinner, yet the Foreign long-liners have been granted licenses to operate off our coastline...

Scary stuff
Title: Re: Obamagration and how it effects legal residents and citizens in the U.S.
Post by: Vince G on June 19, 2012, 10:58:36 pm
The link is there if anyone wants to see the full article. It says AP so it's from the Associated Press.
Title: Re: Obamagration and how it effects legal residents and citizens in the U.S.
Post by: maxx on June 19, 2012, 11:11:12 pm
David it sounds like your prime minister and are president went to the same school.Or read the same books.Support foreign interest.And to hell with There own citizens.Thees schmucks are so power hungry and greedy.That they can't see what they are doing to there own people.What ever happend to taking care of are own people first.
Title: Re: Obamagration and how it effects legal residents and citizens in the U.S.
Post by: David E on June 19, 2012, 11:50:46 pm
er...Maxx, we are talking Politicians here......last thing on their minds are us poor shmucks who put them there...they are too busy with self-aggrandisement and the Perks and Trappings of Office.....they have totally lost touch with reality. Meanwhile, we have no choice but to live it !!!

Come the revolution...lampost job I think !!!!!!
Title: Re: Obamagration and how it effects legal residents and citizens in the U.S.
Post by: Willy The Londoner on June 20, 2012, 05:05:31 am
Personally I think 10 years of dictatarship would set all our countries finances straight.

It just need one to stand up without worrying about an election in a couple of years. 

Willy.
Title: Re: Obamagration and how it effects legal residents and citizens in the U.S.
Post by: shaun on June 20, 2012, 07:14:14 am
If the American government would cancel the election after the next president and use the money taken in for elections I think we could eliminate the debt this country has.  We just don't need to do it right now.  This president has spent more money in 3 years than all of the other 43 presidents combined.
Title: Re: Obamagration and how it effects legal residents and citizens in the U.S.
Post by: RobertBfrom aust on June 20, 2012, 07:43:11 am
Shaun , which only goes to prove the theory that our Prime Minister went to the same training camp on how to spend money I haven't got .
Title: Re: Obamagration and how it effects legal residents and citizens in the U.S.
Post by: Willy The Londoner on June 20, 2012, 08:49:36 am
If the American government would cancel the election after the next president and use the money taken in for elections I think we could eliminate the debt this country has.  We just don't need to do it right now.  This president has spent more money in 3 years than all of the other 43 presidents combined.
Why after the next one. Why not now?  You would have a different one to how he currently has to work.

By spending money has he not keep the unemployment levels lower than they would have been

C'mon Robert, Mrs Gilliard is very fine women - I saw her on Junior Master Chef last week.    The world over is telling us that Australia does not have the money problems that the rest of the world has.   8) 8) 8)


Willy
Title: Re: Obamagration and how it effects legal residents and citizens in the U.S.
Post by: David E on June 20, 2012, 04:06:06 pm
At this moment, our Prime Minister (the red-head with a big ass and a big mouth) is in the process of handing out mountains of money "to those who need it most"...that is, the lazy, incompetant, no-hopers, free-loading migrants, boat people and those in our society who dont want to work but want to have the State provide them with all the good things that those of us who do work, enjoy.

She is finding this money by taxing Business, by imposing resource rent tax on Miners, by slugging us with a Carbon Tax (which every other Country in the World has declined to do (thank you Pew Group for persuading our idiot PM into THIS useless excercise) and removing the ability for those of us who plan to be self-funded retirees to put away some of our money into our Superannuation.

As she says...she is taxing the "rich" so that she can give it to the "poor"...a veritable modern Robin Hood !!!

Problem is, her definition of rich is anybody who has more than $2.36 in the Bank and has a steady income......

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr   :( :( :(
Title: Re: Obamagration and how it effects legal residents and citizens in the U.S.
Post by: Arnold on June 20, 2012, 05:14:30 pm
Problem is, her definition of rich is anybody who has more than $2.36 in the Bank and has a steady income......

If I get more Taxed then I am already are, "I" need to Print some Money to give to our Gov.! If he can do it, why not  >:(  Me ?
Title: Re: Obamagration and how it effects legal residents and citizens in the U.S.
Post by: shaun on June 20, 2012, 05:33:44 pm
David if you take the red headed, big assed, woman out of your description then you have our president.

Willy, you know the reasons I want to wait until the next president.
Title: Re: Obamagration and how it effects legal residents and citizens in the U.S.
Post by: Robertt S on June 20, 2012, 05:39:36 pm
“The problem with socialism is that you eventually
 run out of other people’s money.”
- Margaret Thatcher
Title: Re: Obamagration and how it effects legal residents and citizens in the U.S.
Post by: Robertt S on June 20, 2012, 08:56:45 pm
(http://www.shortarmguy.com/arizonaimmigrationlaw8.jpg)
Title: Re: Obamagration and how it effects legal residents and citizens in the U.S.
Post by: Willy The Londoner on June 20, 2012, 10:14:17 pm
At this moment, our Prime Minister (the red-head with a big ass and a big mouth) is in the process of handing out mountains of money "to those who need it most"...that is, the lazy, incompetent, no-hopers, free-loading migrants, boat people and those in our society who don't want to work but want to have the State provide them with all the good things that those of us who do work, enjoy.


That all covers me to a 'T' except for the boat people bit.  OK so where do I sign up for it? 8)

I also love red heads.   No hair just red heads.

Willy

Title: Re: Obamagration and how it effects legal residents and citizens in the U.S.
Post by: JohnB on June 20, 2012, 10:35:09 pm
 I take departure from the general trend of this discussion.

My original post was a rant & rave. I deleted the mass of it.
I apologize to the board, to everyone else, members or not, who witnessed my nastiness.
 
Title: Re: Obamagration and how it effects legal residents and citizens in the U.S.
Post by: Robertt S on June 20, 2012, 11:28:04 pm
I found a interesting survey from Idaho regarding illegal immigrants that was conducted in 2010, it seems many people in Idaho thought illegal immigrants were reducing the quality of education and various other problems.  It seems the Red States are not the only ones that have a problem with illegal immigration.

     http://sspa.boisestate.edu/publicpolicycenter/files/2010/05/Immigration-and-the-Public-Policy-Survey.pdf (http://sspa.boisestate.edu/publicpolicycenter/files/2010/05/Immigration-and-the-Public-Policy-Survey.pdf)
Title: Re: Obamagration and how it effects legal residents and citizens in the U.S.
Post by: JohnB on June 20, 2012, 11:49:42 pm
Idaho is deep red.
Robert, with all due respect, I apologize to you. I went too far with this. 
Title: Re: Obamagration and how it effects legal residents and citizens in the U.S.
Post by: David E on June 21, 2012, 03:48:34 am
John B

You can depart from and take exception to the general trend of this thread...that is your choice and your right.

Being as I am an Aussie I can make no intelligent (or otherwise) comment on those issues you postuate about various of your past Presidents/Parties....we have our own problems here too !!!

That the Banks and Big Business got bailed out of their mess caused by their own greed and/or incompetance is in some ways unfortunate, but sadly, were there not such a "rescue" I shudder to think where the World would be now...a LOT more stuffed than it is.....I hated the way these people were rescued, but I saw little alternative.

This can be debated ad nauseam and we will never all agree on the rights or wrongs of it.

However...and there is always a "however"   ;D ;D...what I must leap in and defend is my own opinion that you are dead wrong in your generalisation that all illegal migrants are only trying to do what is best for them and their families. As far as Australia goes, we see boatloads and boatloads of Illegals arriving (mainly from the Middle East) who look like adverts for Fred Nerks Health Studios...they are not starving, downtrodden beaten individuals, they have paid thousands and thousands of dollars to get air flights to Indonesia which has totally porous borders, there they stay in hotels for many months until they can find a local people smuggler to bring them to Aus....again for many thousands of dollars.

And once they get here, our Govt throws money and every other facility at them...they live a life of luxury and never have to work again....just keep breeding, our child and parenting payments takes care of any expenses they may have.

We , as tax paying, responsible citizens violently object to these "economic refugees" simply wanting their turn in our gravy train...but they dont want to do the hard yards to get there like we did.

By all means, bring in the downtrodden, persecuted and battered people who are truly desperate and let them regain some dignity, pride and sense of worth....but as for the pond-life that currently invades our World in droves...I could care less.

But I am not alone in this thinking...and I am NOT a racist or a "red-neck"
...after all, I was a Migrant too.
Title: Re: Obamagration and how it effects legal residents and citizens in the U.S.
Post by: Robertt S on June 21, 2012, 03:33:38 pm
“The problem with socialism is that you eventually
 run out of other people’s money.”
- Margaret Thatcher

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_GDWLiBPww3E/SrL8mXUokfI/AAAAAAAAALw/G7sydhzAukI/s1600/socialism_explained.jpg)
Title: Re: Obamagration and how it effects legal residents and citizens in the U.S.
Post by: Willy The Londoner on June 21, 2012, 10:17:04 pm
Just heard a little piece on BBC News about how well Australia is doing in the current World Financial Crisis.  Make way for a lot more immigrants David.

Mind you as a footnote to the news they said that Italian is no longer the second language used next to English. It is now Mandarin!!

Willy

Just now heard that another boat with maybe 200' asylum seekers' has sunk in Australian waters.

Title: Re: Obamagration and how it effects legal residents and citizens in the U.S.
Post by: Jason B on June 21, 2012, 11:20:28 pm
No Willy it sunk in Indonesian waters but under SOLAS (survival of life at sea) which is an international agreement that all mariners and countries with ocean borders is a stituate of the nearest ships have to respond to help anyone who is stranded at sea.

Yes the boat was on the way to Australia with some "country shoppers" read illegal immigrants, which is a big issue here at the moment.  I have my own views on this but I will refrain from venting unless someone wants me to.

As for the financial crisis in Australia, it is great unless you are one of the tax payers who has to go to work everyday to pay for everyone else to bludge.
Title: Re: Obamagration and how it effects legal residents and citizens in the U.S.
Post by: David E on June 22, 2012, 01:01:03 am
Jase

Please, please vent here.........it takes some heat off me....and Rob is too polite to vent, and John is obviously VERY busy with his new bride, judging from his lack of posts  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Obamagration and how it effects legal residents and citizens in the U.S.
Post by: David E on June 22, 2012, 01:07:17 am
Just heard a little piece on BBC News about how well Australia is doing in the current World Financial Crisis.  Make way for a lot more immigrants David.

Mind you as a footnote to the news they said that Italian is no longer the second language used next to English. It is now Mandarin!!

Willy

Just now heard that another boat with maybe 200' asylum seekers' has sunk in Australian waters.

Any person who migrates here legally, through the same system we had to go through to bring our Wives here, is very welcome in Aus and we all will bust our asses to make sure they have a better life in our "lucky" Country.

It is the one's who come here illegally in the guise of "refugees" via Indonesia and boat people smugglers that get up our collective noses !!!

Our only hope with this current lot is that whatever boat rescues them, it will (hopefully) take them back to their port of origin....because they were not in Australian waters.

As for language, Willy...thank goodness I have a Mandarin speaking wife, I should be OK when Mandarin eventually becomes our first language here....I sincerely hope that Arabic does not surpass Mandarin !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Obamagration and how it effects legal residents and citizens in the U.S.
Post by: shaun on June 22, 2012, 06:23:11 am
David, after our November election we can send our loser to you.  If;

A. Obama loses he can ignore all of your laws give your illegals a free green card or;

B. Romney loses he will staple a green card to any earned advanced degree the illegal earn after they immigrate to your country. (Like that is why they move here.)

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Obamagration and how it effects legal residents and citizens in the U.S.
Post by: Willy The Londoner on June 22, 2012, 07:59:48 am
C'mon Shaun.  Give him some credit.  He is trying hard to lose the election.

Willy
Title: Re: Obamagration and how it effects legal residents and citizens in the U.S.
Post by: shaun on June 22, 2012, 08:44:36 am
Willy, I think both are trying to lose the election.  Maybe they have their eyes set on Australia.  ;D
Title: Re: Obamagration and how it effects legal residents and citizens in the U.S.
Post by: JohnB on June 22, 2012, 01:53:05 pm
David E,
I deleted that mass of my vent of my original post. My existence is the reverse side of the coin. Where I live (Coeur d Alene, Idaho) we have the luxury of a 94% "White" population, all shapes & sizes, except thin & beautiful, quite a few snarly & angry, politically & religiously so. Tribal jaundicism is pervasive.
I do not do the American culturalisms of "white identification"; i.e., "republicanism", "country & western", "nascar", "budweiser beer", "mc donalds", "chevy pick- up trucks" (the bastards at gm got government bail out), "an assortment of whatever wacky christian religions suits your interests (including the Aryan Nations http://www.adl.org/learn/ext_us/aryan_nations.asp?xpicked=3&item=an ).
I am culturally conservative, in the "old world" way. A year ago, I "accented" the qualities of my finite life with a beautiful Chinese woman. It does present a few public problems here, though nothing of epic proportions. I still have my "street smarts" from the south side of Chicago.

The crime here is "white". The welfare roles, "white",  health issues "white"...all shapes & sizes as in obesity, many masked by underlying anger or just plain resignation.  Many vulnerable to the likes of right wing wackos, like "fox news", blaming some distant threat, some distant peoples, for their ignorance, their stupidities.

By the way, The Mexicans that go "norte" do not have the opulence of wealth. They are a desperate lot...looking to survive and help their families. They take the jobs that white people will no longer do. Simple question, who works the orchards & fields?
with all due respect, John B
Title: Re: Obamagration and how it effects legal residents and citizens in the U.S.
Post by: David E on June 22, 2012, 03:58:59 pm
To Shaun....

Whoever loses your elections would be welcome to come to Aus...PROVIDED he/she went through the proper channels, did all the hard stuff and finally got an appropriate visa.....we would accept this...warts and all !!!!....my (and most Aussies') gripe is the soft handed approach our Govt is taking with these multitudes of illegals. Remember, to get here is a bit different than getting to the US from Mexico. It is a long, expensive journey to get to a jump off point (usually Indonesia) and to then have the additional money to live in an hotel until an illegal boat sets sail...again at huge cost.  These people deliberately destroy any ID documentation once they are on the boat....they have been advised to do so by lots of Aus Lawyers who than can claim that they are refugees.

In your case, Mexicans can just walk over the border and away they go...very different. It is much more likely that most of these "illegals" are poor and just looking for a better life.....not rich and looking to avoid stuff like those illegals who get here via Indonesia...

But it does not alter my view....immigration is a part of Government policy and everybody should be made to go through due process....thats my opinion. Our Govt has an allocation each year for refugee migration and many genuine refugees get settled here under that program...and enjoy a good life.....I can live with that.

To JohnB...

What you describe is no different to most first World Countries....the vast majority are apathetic, illiterate, ignorant and expect the Govt to provide for them...the power to make decisions, work hard, live a good life seems to be fading fast.

But this is not a migrant issue as you said...thisis a consequence of generally losing the values that society once had. But maybe I am a dinosaur and values such as mine (and a lot of "senior citizens" too) are out of fashion (extinct!!) and will never return...I guess that's why we dont live to be 200 years old...it would be very painful to see this happening for the next 140 years (in my case) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I read in our papers here about a weightlifter who was fast tracked with an Australian resodent visa because he would appear to be a dead-set guarantee for a gold medal in tyhe London Olympics.

He went to training last week and told the coach that unless he was given $5000 he would throw the Games and fail to make a medal performance,  deliberately.....

Guess what...they gave him the $5000

That is why I sometimes despair where we are going.....
Title: Re: Obamagration and how it effects legal residents and citizens in the U.S.
Post by: Robertt S on June 22, 2012, 04:25:37 pm
David E,
I deleted that mass of my vent of my original post. My existence is the reverse side of the coin. Where I live (Coeur d Alene, Idaho) we have the luxury of a 94% "White" population, all shapes & sizes, except thin & beautiful, quite a few snarly & angry, politically & religiously so. Tribal jaundicism is pervasive.
I do not do the American culturalisms of "white identification"; i.e., "republicanism", "country & western", "nascar", "budweiser beer", "mc donalds", "chevy pick- up trucks" (the bastards at gm got government bail out), "an assortment of whatever wacky christian religions suits your interests (including the Aryan Nations http://www.adl.org/learn/ext_us/aryan_nations.asp?xpicked=3&item=an (http://www.adl.org/learn/ext_us/aryan_nations.asp?xpicked=3&item=an) ).
I am culturally conservative, in the "old world" way. A year ago, I "accented" the qualities of my finite life with a beautiful Chinese woman. It does present a few public problems here, though nothing of epic proportions. I still have my "street smarts" from the south side of Chicago.

The crime here is "white". The welfare roles, "white",  health issues "white"...all shapes & sizes as in obesity, many masked by underlying anger or just plain resignation.  Many vulnerable to the likes of right wing wackos, like "fox news", blaming some distant threat, some distant peoples, for their ignorance, their stupidities.

By the way, The Mexicans that go "norte" do not have the opulence of wealth. They are a desperate lot...looking to survive and help their families. They take the jobs that white people will no longer do. Simple question, who works the orchards & fields?
with all due respect, John B


Why would a person actually want to engage in hard work when the federal government is basically making it more attractive and sometimes lucrative to stay un-employed and reliant upon the government, giving the government the figures they need to rationalize bigger government. Here is all the options a person in Georgia has for income, health services, legal assistance, housing assistance, energy assistance, and last on their list( literally) employment assistance.
http://dhs.georgia.gov/sites/dhs.georgia.gov/files/related_files/document/Guide_Health_Social_Services_v8.pdf (http://dhs.georgia.gov/sites/dhs.georgia.gov/files/related_files/document/Guide_Health_Social_Services_v8.pdf)

And many of these benefits are available to the children of illegal immigrants ( because the children were born here after their parents ILLEGALLY entered the country)which also could be considered a perk since most had no health insurance before they crossed the United States border ILLEGALLY.The parents are not eligible to receive benefits , but they are counted in the household size when determining benefits. They just claim no income because most have no bank accounts and no W-2,s or 1099 that could be used against them. So when you ask the question Who works the fields and orchards, ask your self What incentive is there for the US citizen to work the orchards and fields when the government will pay them to sit on there a$$ and breed more potential democratic voters to keep the machine alive!
Title: Re: Obamagration and how it effects legal residents and citizens in the U.S.
Post by: JohnB on June 22, 2012, 04:42:34 pm
I actually agree with most of what said here. It is a matter of legalities. Laws are ambiguous. Lawyers delight. News services pablum. The common citizen dazed & confused..pissed. What is missing is the element of truth. I still firmly believe the perversions of truth are the politicos. They say anything you want to hear. You cast your vote. WTF happened?
Kind of funny, I saw an upcoming movie clip on Charlie Rose (outstanding commentator on PBS). In a generality, the clip talked about the public that thought America #1, of which like I think, 40% or 60% or so, believed in the existence of angels. We  need to re- introduce "Civics" in school. Maybe we need angels to help the ignoranced see the guiding light. 

Fox News should have an asterisk* on anything published. The rest of the media is questionable.   
The thing I follow is the assault on Julian Assange. A lot of sphincter muscles tightened. If America pulls shit and gets extradition, I truly believe we are in trouble as a free and open democracy. In essence we are just a neurotic police state, the Constitution be damned.
Title: Re: Obamagration and how it effects legal residents and citizens in the U.S.
Post by: Robertt S on June 22, 2012, 05:06:20 pm
I actually agree with most of what said here. It is a matter of legalities. Laws are ambiguous. Lawyers delight. News services pablum. The common citizen dazed & confused..pissed. What is missing is the element of truth. I still firmly believe the perversions of truth are the politicos. They say anything you want to hear. You cast your vote. WTF happened?
Kind of funny, I saw an upcoming movie clip on Charlie Rose (outstanding commentator on PBS). In a generality, the clip talked about the public that thought America #1, of which like I think, 40% or 60% or so, believed in the existence of angels. We  need to re- introduce "Civics" in school. Maybe we need angels to help the ignoranced see the guiding light. 

Fox News should have an asterisk* on anything published. The rest of the media is questionable.   
The thing I follow is the assault on Julian Assange. A lot of sphincter muscles tightened. If America pulls shit and gets extradition, I truly believe we are in trouble as a free and open democracy. In essence we are just a neurotic police state, the Constitution be damned.

JohnB,
     You are absolutely right, I think the civics and other related programs should be brought back. As far as Julian Assange, he only done what any anarchist would do given the chance. As far as the army private, he should be taken out and placed before a firing squad for treason. The US has many other methods to deal with Assange without making a  public spectacle out of it. Personally I think we tend to stick our political noses in many places it is not wanted or needed, the world's civilizations survived for thousands of years without the United States tending their affairs and will continue to survive. Some places do need help, not just ours but a combined world effort to stabilize areas and stop or prevent famines and diease. Once our government figures out we are not superman or God the better off we will be. The United Nations is basically a joke and a bottomless money pit with no accountability, I think all nations who are members should contribute equally to membership dues and commitments thus restricting the chance of monetary blackmail for supporting votes to sanctions and other forms of political/economic punishments. I think the parents and schools should strive to make students realize the benefits to themselves and their country when they become more self reliant and begin to hold themselves more accountable for their own well being and support and not rely on the NANNY state to survive!      Robert :)
Title: Re: Obamagration and how it effects legal residents and citizens in the U.S.
Post by: JohnB on June 22, 2012, 06:45:15 pm
Robert, Robert, Robert,
Julian Assange...anarchist. Doesn't matter the nature of the man. He is a journalist. Whatever happened to the likes of Woodward and Bernstein? Remember Peter Finch in Network? "I'm mad as hell and I am not going to take it anymore."
 Network- I'm Mad as Hell (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dib2-HBsF08#ws)
My hat is off to Dan Rather. The right wing wack jobs were like a pack of hyenas chasing him down. There is no such thing as investigative reporting. Advance at your own risk. The path to truth is perilous with their feces.
When was the last time we had good investigative reporting? Is this not a free country? At least supposedly? Maybe Assange has the right idea, the right approach, to exposing the fraudulent, the questionable activities in government. It is kinda odd. As Assange was going to address the Bank of America fiasco, one of his next commands, stole the information. Makes me wonder about the Judas asshole...how much money he was bought for.

There is money in politics. If you address illegal immigration & enforcement, the issues legal origins begin in congress, and enforcement of the laws by the administration. The louder the noise is the more money generated. There is profit in peoples misery, the corollary becomes increased security. The casualty, freedom.

For what it is worth, boot the bastard Rupert Murdoch out of the U.S. and revoke his bought citizenship. The only thing he ever did right was married a Chinese princess. At least he has good taste in women.