China Romance
General Discussion and Useful Links => Newbies Corner => Topic started by: Arnold on October 08, 2012, 04:17:09 pm
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... or this Forum will turn into a silent Book of information with no "Core" Members anymore. So many Members, but no questions to ask... sad :( . I can really see how us married ones, are too busy to hang onto a ones thriving Forum.. with nothing but old Post's to look at. I myself find checking in less and less frequently as before... mmmmmh ?
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It's possible our little adventures are becoming less and less relevant. I mean, if I had to do it over again, I probably wouldn't. It's not a simple matter of marrying a woman and bringing her home (as it should be). It seems like our governments are trying to make foreign marriages more difficult.
I met a couple in Xiamen that my wife met on an immigration forum. A Canadian man and his Shanghai wife. We had supper together at a "steak" restaurant. Afterward, I asked my wife to get his qq number so we can chat. He seemed like a cool guy. It looks like he only uses msn. I wonder and doubt if he has visited our forum. If I can contact him, I'll invite him here. Like me, their immigration application was refused and he is awaiting appeal.
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I visit this site every now and then. From an outsider looking in within the click of the old timers here there is little room for new members. I don't ever comment because frankly the old timers don't appear to care for the new people. It is kind of a closed club around here and when new people come it appears that more are willing to attack than to welcome.
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I visit this site every now and then. From an outsider looking in within the click of the old timers here there is little room for new members. I don't ever comment because frankly the old timers don't appear to care for the new people. It is kind of a closed club around here and when new people come it appears that more are willing to attack than to welcome.
As an old timer 'T' I take offence at this statement you have just put on, and frankly if this is the type of stuff you want to write, then it is no wonder people don't want to know !!
I don't remember one instance where a newbie has not been invited to take part in this site, please put your evidence to show that we are a closed club!!!
If we 'old timers' didn't care then tell me WHY the site was started in the first place
What you are probably seeing as being attacked, is more than likely the newbie being put on the right track a the beginning of his journey
Robbie
I come in here everyday and read, if I can help anyone with their dilemma then I put my two cents worth. but I stopped posting for personal reasons, and do try to keep up to date with everything, if there is something that I know nothing or very little about then its simple I don't post
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Well now T-Town, I am not suprised by your Post.. because I've heard that before. What suprises me, is why anyone would think we are a Club of Old-Timers that don't care? I for one is far from that statement, which by the way.. I like. Because, this is exactly what we want here.. openness and honesty. May it be good or bad. What is NOT tolerated here, and I know you know this.. is personal attacks. Tough Love is not a attack on anyone, it is an reply that comes from someones experience not from the back-side.
If what you say is true with most newbee's, then why not let them speak up and tell us. Of course it will look like a Club, if one the same ones Post over and over with each-other. Do they have a choice, if things are slow? This is my very point of this Thread... Speak up! Maybe the few(not even a handful) that got Banned are a Thorn in our site here.. but they caused that onto themselves. Anyhow, thanks for telling how you feel T-Town.. it is really nothing new.. but it makes us take look at the whole picture and if there is a place for improvement it will happen with time.. if it's not too late.
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I visit this site every now and then. From an outsider looking in within the click of the old timers here there is little room for new members. I don't ever comment because frankly the old timers don't appear to care for the new people. It is kind of a closed club around here and when new people come it appears that more are willing to attack than to welcome.
It isn't true. Every old member I asked here was very helpful and shared his experiences and opinions with me without hesitation. Only I use PMs and emails for these discussions, because my questions are about agencies and persons they know.
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I think what he meant was that Arnold and Scottish Rob are old. Lol
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LOL.... ;D ;D ;D
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I think I can say and understand what T was implying. The case in point would be that guy that was on here recently said he was with a girl and they moved from one site to another etc. I forget the specifics, anyway the replies he received in my opinion whilst they were accurate and understandable for those of us who know the scams etc. the way it was put across could at times seem very crass and rude to the point where people were telling this guy to dump her, move on or what have you because "I know better" but do you really or is it just your opinion? Have you been in every situation that one posts on? There is a wealth of experience in the replies but I think that there also needs to be some compasion shown as well. I do not mean hold their hand through the whole process but explain better your reasons for saying ...... not their a crap agency or you are being scammed because .........
If I was a newbie and recieved that advice in the manner written would I want to come back? Maybe but I probably would not log on I would just find the info I was seeking and quietly move on. The other reason that no one new is coming here is that maybe because of the revamp of the CHNLOVE database the info to come here has been removed. Just a thought as that is the only way I found out about this site.
Do not percieve my response as negative in anyway. We all learn from the collective but the way the collective responds may be perceived by someone new to be a gang up on them. Just my opinion. I have my wife here with me and our daughter and I know what the processess are and the pitfalls to avoid. If I can help someone I will but I will also think of my reply and how it will be perceived before I let the keyboard fly.
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I think what he meant was that Arnold and Scottish Rob are old. Lol
Ha ha. No mention of me in that reply then. ;D ;D ;D
The Hombre is right in a way. We have so much information stored away that newbies can read it without making any request or comment hence the numbers are pretty static.
But the Clique - not click is probably the only reason that this site continues at all. It is the banter, instigated by others but sometimes by me, that keeps it moving at times even if it is often off thread.
Without the banter it is likely that there would be so few visitors that many of the older members will cease logging in.
When a newbie does ask a question he WILL get answers from a cross section of members.
What we also have to remember is that there is far less interest in taking a Chinese Wife nowadays due to a combination of the financial restraints and bad press.
Me, I am here for the complete journey. Just one more year and I can start the application for permanent residency.
Willy
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It'd a few years now since I was home licking my wounds after several trips to China to meet Women who I found on CHNLove and such....and came back home shattered and disillusioned and quite frankly I felt totally disgusted with the whole rigmarole of lies and deception perpetrated on me by these Agencies. None of the Women I met were remotely like their photos and despite many, many EMF's (that cost me an arm and a leg) most of them did not know anything about me...it was all a bloody great scam.
After I got some hard but good advice here...you all know the story...web-cam, QQ etc etc etc I got the courage and support from the "old-timers" here to have another try and do it the right and safe way.
When I first posted here, I got some very tough advice, I did feel like a pratt for not thinking it through myself and I guess, like many of the newbies here I was already "in love" with these wonderful, beautiful Women and could not really believe that someone could deceive me so badly...like most of us, my hormones got well ahead of my brain !!!!
It's not much fun to be told how stupid we have been...whether this message comes like a blast from a .45, or whether it is delivered in dulcet tones matters little....as they say "dont shoot the messenger " !!!
It is because the old-timers know the ropes, have done the journey and have finally won (or lost, or drawn) that the advice coming thru to newbies is often short, sharp......and accurate.
If that puts people off...it is a pity because it is kindly meant to save Men a lot of pain, emotionally as well as financially.
Yes, we are a clique....a clique of Men who have done the hard yards...together......and shared so much. That clique does never exclude anyone new from seeking help, it does not deliberately shut out newbies and it never personally ridicules anyone. We have continued to keep in touch here because we have shared something unique together . When nobody wants advice, then we can still keep up ,our personal banter...but never let it be said that we shun outsiders, or abuse them, or whatever. The real problem is that most newbies who come here are in trouble...but they dont quite know why....sometimes the advice which us "oldies" can see as completely obvious comes as a very hard, cold message....it's a very hard cold World out there, especially with crooked, scamming Agencies AND Women.....it is best to get advice to jump, if jumping saves a lot of heartache...what is the point of trying to sugar-coat it...the end game is still the same.
If you do it right, persevere, listen and act on advice you CAN win your Chinese Princess...I and many of the old-timers did just that and I for one hope that in some small way I can help somebody else get what I have got...because it is a life changing experience....for the better.
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http://www.chnromance.com/index.php/topic,3574.0.html (http://www.chnromance.com/index.php/topic,3574.0.html)
Now this is one example how we treat Newcomers to our Forum, what comes after that depends on their situation and how deep into a relationship or scam their are.
Like the reply's shown, bring it to a point.. that we "ARE" here to help.. "IF" someone needs or asks for it.
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I think some people are automatically on the defensive when they suddenly find out they may have been deceived or scammed, especially when a perfect stranger breaks the news. I also think we are actually just a second opinion for many people who pass through here because they already suspect what we collectively confirm for many! I agree with the fact that the global economy has put a damper on many people's dreams temporarily, but I also think that word of our little sorority has spread throughout the ChnLove Empire and agencies are warning men that we are a bunch of hateful old men who hate marriage agencies, thus the smaller traffic to our site. I guess that means we have broken down some of the walls of secrecy that allowed these agencies to flourish for many years unchallenged! ;) 8)
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Well at least I have provoked people into commenting.
No one has been rude or attacked me in my comments. I only offered up a viewpoint based on some of the things I have read on this site.
Rob your offence to a comment I made is a choice that you made just as your comment was. Please don't take offence with the next things that I will write.
Would you have taken offence if Willy or David E had made the same post that I made? Would you have made the same comments to them as you have to me? I don't think you would have and that would have proved my point we both know they wouldn't have made the comment that I made.
I am a relative new comer to this site therefore my comments do not carry as much weight as those mentioned above.
The point to the whole comment was to provoke people into looking into why newbies are not talking, telling, or asking. My goal has done that somewhat.
The idea that this site is Cliquish, (I'm sure Willy will tear up the spelling on this one. ;) ) is true and it should be. Most of the men here have experienced a lot of the same things, they share the same interest in Chinese women, and have helped each other through difficult issues. The point is somehow if you want this site to grow and newbies to ask questions the seasoned members need to find a way to foster that kind of atmosphere.
Bottom line is if a new person comes here looking for answers, who has had some difficulty doesn't feel safe to open up then they won't do it.
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T I'm sorry I jumped right in and took offense, I should have realized you were new to this, but hey that's me foot in mouth disease...lol so again apologies...
as to your comment that you wrote if had been willy or David, the short answer is YES mate I would have, In fact if you read all the threads you will see i have verbally had a go at Willy (who I would say is my best friend on here, sorry to rest of guys ;-))
What you say about your comments NOT carrying any weight, YES they do they are just as valid as anyone Else's, the oldies just try to, as David and others pointed out, only want o help because we went through the journey and know the real pitfalls
as one pointed put, MOST of info can be found, if the newbie is not to lazy to look, could it be they don't ask because they have the info they may need?
Anyway matey, anything you need to know, just ask, all will be answered as there is a plethora of information to be gleamed from here
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Would you have taken offence if Willy or David E had made the same post that I made? Would you have made the same comments to them as you have to me?
This is a good question! Which of course now.. depends on ones Character and NOT the Forum. So it's ones own choice, one person. This doesn't and shouldn't reflect on the whole Forum.. right? In a way a Forum of Members is like a marriage, we need to be patient and not jump up (or Leave) based on one Post and especially from one in the middle of an Immigration hassle with no end in sight.
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Arnold i think I answered that question !!!
As you probably know I've had fall outs with members on here who i considered friend, still do except willy and I have grown closer as you know...
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Arnold i think I answered that question !!!
As you probably know I've had fall outs with members on here who i considered friend, still do except willy and I have grown closer as you know...
Bugger me mate. If that's getting close to a proposal your too damn late! I am spoken for in a big way. But as there are only about 500 million elligible Chinese women here then I will put you in the queue at 500,000,001. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Willy
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Funny , having just clicked on I see that there are 41 on site , but 38 of those were guests , so yes a lot of info is available on here and being made use of , regards Sujuan and Robert .
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Lets not fool ourselves into thinking this is a useful forum because it is not. I have been here two years and still have trouble finding stuff I am interested. There is threads everywhere with duplicate information. There is information placed in the wrong thread because the author could not find a good place to put it.
So pretend for a minute that you are a newbie or someone that just discovered the forum through Google search. Now you just arrived and have no idea on what to do or where to go. So you decide to browse the most recent posts. Here you will find some very important information about Why Willy’s American bashing is Temporarily on hold” and an argument on the history of WWII. And oh yes, a gripe session about why the newbies aren't asking questions and sharing their stories. Just what you looking for, Right?
Honestly if it were me 2 years ago I would click right through and keep on going. The site was a little more active back then is why I decided to stay and share my story and experiences.
But now it is less active and just as hard to navigate and find pertinent information as before. I dont know the real problem or a hint of the solution but I can feel this place is slowly becoming a ghost town.
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The reason is that there are less and less men looking to find an Asian wife. Whether it be from China or Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam, Phillipines or anywhere else. The mighty Chnlove itself is feeling the pinch as are many others in the dating sector.
This is not due solely to financial restraints but also to the amount of negative comments on the Internet in general, which is also reflected in persons individual thoughts concerning such marriages.
The information contained in the threads are not easy to find. But have their ever been any adverse comments from Non Members that the information is hard to find. That being said I do feel that the whole forum needs revamping and the pertinent pages, with banter and quips removed, are placed is separate threads that only administrators can add to.
Robert is right about guests. When I came on today there was just me and 27 guests and this was at 9am China Time. How many of these were men seeking the advice in these pages. How many were agency staff checking upon men or how many were the various immigration departments checking on applicants, we will never know.
Willy
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We have some good points here. I now look at it, like we started as a small Creek.. with only one thing floating down on it.. Chinese Women and how to get them Home. Slowly we merged with others and became bigger with more info. that was not solely dealing with the original topics. As water flows downhill, we never had the chance to come back to the starting point of our intend at the beginning. So now we are a River of mixed info/news that has nothing to do with Chinese Women or such.
A River that has Waterfalls and Rapids, so we were out to loose a Member here and there, due to too wild waters and somewhat wild tempers from too many on the same River at one time.
Now, do we leave this Forum behind and start out on a new one.. ones more? We all know, nobody can or will go through all Posts here and delete the unwanted.. this would be a full time job and who is to do it?
I don't like what Gerry said, that we are not useful, then again.. I'm afraid he might be right and that is exactly what keeps them (Newbies) away. Back to what Willy said, why they don't say something?
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The guests come from many places. Some are people reading the information here...some will be agencies...Immigration officials are possible, but gleaning too much personal information would be difficult, since most don't give their full names here...and quite a few are Spiders for search engines. They are documenting pages, which for those that found us through a search engine, this would have been why.
As far as the site being relevant...it probably is. It certainly isn't for me, but that is because my life has changed. Like Arnold said, the beginnings of this site, we were like a stream. Things have changed. We grew. Maybe we have passed our time, and maybe the torch needs to be passed on. I don't know the answer.
I do take offense to Gerry saying that this site is not useful. Many people have been helped by this site. Just because Gerry doesn't find use doesn't mean that others do not. If you find it so completely useless, why do you post here at all? 2 years, and you have "trouble finding stuff I am interested". Yet after 637 posts, we are still interested in what you have to say?
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I would say this site is more active and usefull the the Chnlove face book group as that place is rarely used. I also finished doing a tour on the official site and besides getting a laugh from some spouting posts, I would say by clicking on the forum tab here, you can get directed more easily to topics then the official site. Our forum tab breaks down into relevant categories that I could see a newbee navigating to find topics of interest.
The official site has so few recent success posting and thank you letters. It seems to me that the time frame Arnold and I was on it around 2007 - 2008 the official site was more active. Maybe, as mentioned, less people are using the old route so less are blown off course to discover this web site. Even in our own members here, it seems that most of us were venturing to China around the same time frame 2006 - 2009 seeking for a bride. Now most have their treasure or are waiting for visas or appeals. We lack newbees and I, for one, would relish a newbee's posting of his recent trip - if he could mustard up the courage to post.
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;D ;D ;D hahaha.. you had to do it.. didn't you? I saw the "Newbee" in your Post of Relish&Mustard, which would much better go with Sauerkraut.
Your Time table is dead on, with most of us Poster's anyway.
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Martin, I may have understated the usefulness of the forum. To some it has been invaluable and I am one of them. But only because I have the stubbornness to go hunting for something when it is well hidden and not obvious. I stand by everything else I said in my last post. The site is difficult to find what your looking for and there are multiple threads with similar information. We may think it is easy but that is because we have done it a hundred times. If it is not intuitive to the visitor he will simply go away.
As for my 600+ posts. I think most of them (not all) contained valuable information on how to find a Chinese woman, avoid scams, navigate China, find Western food, and how to prepare for an extended stay with the lady you choose. Not to mention information on what can go wrong with your immigration application. Very few of my posts contain trivial crap and discussions that have nothing to do with dating or marriage in China.
As for you not liking what I said...GOOD ...at least I got you to think about it.
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if I was a newbie, I would look a the threads relivent to me, if I could not find what it is I'm looking for, then I would ask!!!
At the end of the day the forum has got each section covered, work, visa's, etc etc
Not to cause an argument BUT... Anything that gives information, whether can be found straight away or not..MUST be deemed USEFUL !!!
oK, RANT OVER ;D ;D ;D
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I stand by everything else I said in my last post. The site is difficult to find what your looking for and there are multiple threads with similar information.
It just makes sense that threads would share similar information. If I was to knit a sweater I would start with one thread and slowly weave it into a final garment that would fit for whomever I was knitting for. Well this site is a depository of much usefull information because we have many weavers sharing multiple threads. So if you mean difficult in comparison to a library, where people are paid or volunteer to catalog and sort information, then yes you are correct. But since we do not SHHUUHH people here (primary reason why Willy does not frequent libraries but raises ruckus here), what we do have here is slightly chaotic. What we do have is that if trying to search for something informative, one doesn't get a hit on more than 50% of topics trying to sell something as a google search engine would turn up.
So unless someone is willing to volunteer and has the ability to organise the data here, then I can not see a greater degree of searching ease. I can also forsee a problem as in trying to unite topics and threads, posts might get erased causing the original poster to complain about his postings being deleted. We do have the mods periodically splitting threads and editing, but heck, we also have a life outside this forum and limited time do get things right.
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There are 37 guests this exact moment, and only 1 member. Me.
I think the members are taking all this soul searching too seriously. Does it ever occur to anyone that this forum is just a small bit player in the larger scheme of things?
For one thing, most of the members have their grand experiences. Go back a few years, most here were trying to figure the scheme for China success, despite all the bullshit hurdles. Quite a few were successful, a few others less so, all willing to do what it takes to find their happiness in China. This forum has legacy.
It is kind of odd that no one posts “photos from China” or “your trip to China” or “understanding Chinese women”. I, if a guest, would probably want to be involved in the forum other than as a spectator or 'lurker' ('lurker' sounds ominous), but a lurker is just a lurker until his curiosity gets the better of him.
The forum has 'morphed' into something sedate, something defensive at times. Something way too introspective, way too 'safe'. That certainly does not help the forum longevity much. Maybe it is time to address that we need to focus on 'life's adventure'. The China equation did not stop when I married, found success. When I hopped on the China merry- go- round, I did not change it, it changes me.
I think it safe to say most guests are curious of China. They also review other sites to glean as much information as they can. I, for one, previous to my entry here, had formulated my own game plan to find my success. My plan worked for me. I married Jing. So, my life takes on a different and more colorful mosaic. Of course everyone is different, but this forum was a big help because it satisfied some of my curiosities.
Many members have found success. For some, life is adventure, for others life is assimilation. I, for one, am curious on how others are changed...the better, the worst? Willy has embraced China whole halfheartedly. He has his own interesting story. Others, seem like they just disappear into the Antarctica.
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There are 37 guests this exact moment, and only 1 member. Me.
I think the members are taking all this soul searching too seriously. Does it ever occur to anyone that this forum is just a small bit player in the larger scheme of things?
The forum has 'morphed' into something sedate, something defensive at times. Something way too introspective, way too 'safe'. That certainly does not help the forum longevity much.
I, for one, am curious on how others are changed...the better, the worst?
You raise some interesting points John. And I took in the quotes part of your posting that I will also reflect upon.
First, it has been said at other times by others, and even myself, that we believed we were just small fish in the pond. If we have more guest then members, then I would hazard a guess that most people are just using this site to, as you mentioned, gleam information from. So we do provide a small service even if, as Gerry thinks, our information is difficult to get at.
I don't understand the second statement you posted as in if the forum is too safe, how can it being the opposite increase its longevity? You are right that it has morphed into something sedate, and with no new blood on others starting their own China adventure, most postings will just be us old timers contributing oddities and jokes.
The last part you mentioned might be the way that this forum can grow a bit more usefull. But I can also say that once us members have our wives here, it seems that we have less free time. I know I spent more time here when I was lost in time during our prolong visa wait.
But to get the ball rolling.... I will say that my life is for sure now, a rollercoaster ride. And as to alluding to my 1000th & 1 posting poll Topic: Bumper Cars And Rollercoasters , I mentioned that I liked bumper cars instead. My wife has been starting her own business and has had some success. She teaches her instrument and plays at some of our C-Train stops where she make some money as well. But there is tension at home because of her relationship with her 18 year old boy. He is not a bad kid, but he is disrespectful towards her. He also is a loner and after school mainly sits in his room on the computer. If his English was better (only Level 1 ESL - English second language) I could communicate better. If my Chinese was better, then I could get a heads up that an argument is brewing and for what reason.
So things are okay, being sometimes great, to sometimes not wanting to be at home when the 2 are there as well. I have also come to understand that if I did not marry again I could have been happy with my situation just living at home with my 17 year old son. He is easy to get along with and my wish would be that he and my stepson would socialise together so that my stepson, as he has stated to me before, would not say that this is not his home.
It's ironic that I needed to do my China adventure to understand that I could have been happy just being a bumper car life, but now that I have entered into my wife's life, I feel responsible for her, although this roller coaster gives me motion sickness. :P
Tomorrow I take her for her learners test and soon I will have the comfort of knowing that I will worry about her driving skill with Winter soon approaching. I do like Bumper Cars, but not if it is my car that goes Bump in the night.
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The topic of this thread is right on. The old timers (with a couple of exceptions) have made it to China and captured a woman. I find myself visiting (or contributing) less and less as time goes by. I suppose when I am home in Colorado my life starts over for the 4th time (yes this is wife number 4). I find as I get older I am less and less tolerant of bitchy lazy women. That is why the last two are Chinese.
Rhonald, I too think that I would be just as happy living a life of solitude but I am afraid to find out. I know I am getting older and I fear being alone and lonely with no one to share life's little experiences. If I could get over that fear I would be just as well off.
As for the bumper cars, I couldn't agree more. Marriage to a Chinese woman with a son is as close to hell as I ever want to get. I raised him and tried my best to be that same father to him as I was to my own kids but it was impossible to discipline him or teach him anything about life's values. Jing would not permit it. He was her only child and prince. he could do nothing wrong that was not immediately forgiven. (by her) I still don't forgive the little shit for stealing my car and totaling it and my neighbors truck as a bonus. And the numerous arrests for drugs violations or threatening to kill me. And the ruined carpet in his room and the oil tracked from the garage all over the house and the holes in the walls and my power tools the disappeared. It was not a relief when he graduated and became legal age. It just gave him and excuse to park his lazy ass at home and sleep all day and stay out all night. He is a sociopath and pure evil. Last I heard he is still sponging off his mom. Divorce was somewhat of a relief. I felt like I was divorcing him too. No way in hell would I marry another lady with a son. I could write a novel about the last 5 years.
The point I am trying to make is the same one that you started to in your last post. We are finished with this forum and don't need it near as much as we did in the beginning. We have settled into family life and most of us will just fade away over time. But who takes over from here. Who is going to keep things interesting and exciting. We need new members willing to lead and share their knowledge and experience. We need a membership drive. As for the forum itself ...the information is here but not well organized and handy to the new user. It needs a makeover.
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We need new members willing to lead and share their knowledge and experience. We need a membership drive.
That will be a tough sell, because most of us found this site because of using Chnlove or its equivalent. We persevered when early on there was not good information out there. Now most of us caution about the many pit falls that lurk in this adventure to the end of the world. Maybe some possible new members as guests read topics and get scarred from reading about our horror stories and decide to go else where.
I know back in 2008 I had heard about the troubles of looking over seas to places like Russia or Latin America, but I naively thought China would be different. But from experience, as the world opens more, the bad practices seem to expand as well.
Most advertising succeed because of feeding positive results, not by saying our product has a 50 % chance that it can work for you, followed by as in the USA drug ads policy of listing possible side affects.
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I think, on balance of probability, that first-timers looking here would rather read about the tips, tricks, trials and tribulations of the search for a partner in China.
Possibly they are not yet interested in the ongoing issues experienced AFTER you get your Bride home, AFTER the monumental hurdles to be overcome with paperwork, Government Departments (who seem determined to put you off).
That is why I dont say so much about my life now, here in Aus with Ming. All of the details we gathered along the way of our journey to be together I have posted before...like so many others before me.
The sum of knowlege residing here about the "search" process is vast, mabe too much to take in. I agree that somehow a more simplified way to get some info would make it easier for newbies, rather than wade through mountains of info. (and you must agree that lots of our topices drifted far away from the original questions and a lot of threads are filled with peripheral stuff that hides the real "meat").
Like so many of the "old-timers" I am always happy to assist anybody who wants it, but it is not easy to know what newbies want, especially when they seem to just look and then depart (witness the large amount of visitors we have compared to members)...did they look and find the answers they needed ?...did they look and felt that the Forum was not useful ?.......or was it too complex to find the answer they were looking for ?....I dunno, maybe someone can tell us.
And if anybody wants a blow-by-blow account (no pun intended :P :P) of my life after I got my wife to my home Country, then I will be happy to oblige....but I felt that this is not really the function of the Forum, maybe I am wrong ??
But having the "pleasure" of a 3 week visit by Mings 16 year old Son, I can echo the comments from Rhonald and Pineau......no way could I ever see this little jumped up, self opinionated, spoiled little sh###t ever being happy in an environment where he was NOT treated like a King, and where I would take every opportunity to bounce him when he got out of line (as he did on a continual basis)...I was aghast to find that Ming as a Mother to this monster was a totally different person I know and love as a Wife !!!
It was as if nobody else in the World existed or mattered...that Boy got 120% of her attention, he was waited on hand and foot and indulged at every opportunity, no criticism of him was allowed, and never did she back me against him...quite the contrary. He treated his Mum like a slave, with total contempt...yet she kept coming back for more and allowed him to get away with it. In fact, had he stayed with us for another week or so, I am very sure that I would have packed them BOTH off on the next plane to China...it was that bad.
So "prospectors" beware...If she has a Son, you could well be in for a rocky ride...make no mistake, you will never be number one in her acts, thoughts and deeds whilst a Son is in the same house !!!!!!
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The difference between Chinese Men and Westerners is that we really appreciate the attention we receive from our Chinese wife whereas the Chinese man, because of tradition, expects it. That is instilled in them from the day they are born.
That is something none of us are ever going to see changed in our lifetime and many years afters if ever. Look how many centuries it took us to change attitudes on slavery!
As others say if you tie up with a woman with a son then be prepared for the problems that may or will more likely arise.
My wife has a son and two daughters. The daughters are a blessing, the son,well he keeps away, not just from us but the whole extended family.
This is something he actually took my advice,after his one visit to us when I held him up against the wall, after his verbal abuse reigned on my wife and for the first and only time I saw her cry. He speaks good English and he clearly understood my words. Luckily I was able to control my fist from punctuating my remarks. At the time he was 21. But lesson learned by us both.
So it looks like most who have taken up with women with teenage plus sons have had this problem so it would be interesting to hear from those who took up such a relationship and it is successful for all parties.
But at present it does give out another warning sign.
Willy
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Looks like Rhonald and I are somewhat in the same boat here....
But there is tension at home because of her relationship with her 18 year old boy. He is not a bad kid, but he is disrespectful towards her. He also is a loner and after school mainly sits in his room on the computer. If his English was better (only Level 1 ESL - English second language) I could communicate better. If my Chinese was better, then I could get a heads up that an argument is brewing and for what reason.
This, not being able to discipline Qing's 11 yr. old Son myself and having to put it all on my Wife.. is frustrating as hell. The only good thing out of it, is she does not treat him like a King.. actually it's almost the opposite. He is.. or I should say, trying hard to "Run" the house sometimes.. which I take not a liking to. It went as far (after he was told) not to go on or play on my CP, he made himself the Administrator and I could not get to my Stuff one night. I stormed into his room (while he was sleeping) and yelled at him to get up NOW and change that back and for good measure's I slammed the door behind him.. to show him "I was Mad"! Qing stood aside without one word, as she knew.. he had it coming.
Later, she told me.. that I really scared him! Well, that is exactly what I wanted to show him.. I'm the "King" of this house and not he. This was worked wonders in both our favors and still does.
Last weekend, we went to San Diego to the Airshow.. which he really enjoyed. That all changed the next morning, going to La Jolla. It was back to being a Brat, because.. beauty of the Ocean and Birds/Seals sunning themselves was of no interest to him. So.... there we walked along this wonderful path on Sunday with Sunshine/People relaxing, here is Qing yelling at him the whole way.. trying to straighten him out ( which is quite embarrassing with People all staring you down). After she saw, I was not (or could not) enjoy our walk.. she just left him on his own. Follow us or just keep standing right there, which he did.. until we were out of sight.. he started to start walking to catch up with us. Ones he did, the face he was showing.. said a thousand works (as you can see from the Photo). Spoiled Brat, which was a result of living two years with the Grandparents (in their 60's) that he found easier to get his way's through.. then his Mother. Like I've say before.. she don't take anything from him (no little Emporer here) and this is my Luck.. as I only have to fight one and not both of them. So, as long as he knows.. who's the "Man" of the house and he is NOT going to "Play" mommy in his favor or against me.. all should and will fall into place. Me and Qing are on the same Page as a Couple and Parents.. this can only be in our favor including the Brat's.
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To Willy, Arnold, Rhonald, David E ..Its much the same over here in Kiwiland...It seems like a 3 act play....The first part of it is our addiction to 'The Chase'..The ups and downs, the anticipation, the thrill of the new, the awakening of long forgotten biology...There have been truck loads of songs on this topic (e.g Chet Bakers-The Thrill is Gone).
Then all of a sudden,the second act. We get married, we are signed and sealed and into the interesting territory of making a relationship succeed with our past failures as our primary guide :( ( I recall that doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome was Einsteins definition of insanity. ) And of course its easy to share excitement, much harder to confess to feeling fragile. So, in the third act, the unglamorous part, we are seen as sedate by the 'yet to commit' crowd. Yet it seems to me that in this unglamorous work are some of life's real lessons.
The first two years Yan was with me in NZ, I had to pinch myself to actually believe the courtesy and consideration I was given. Then her 21 YO son come out and of course wanted to stay in the same house ( mine) with his mother. Overnight, more or less, my marriage vanished. He's actually a nice kid, but 12 years old inside, with an enormous sense of entitlement ( Wheres my Iphone 5 ... ). The local school where 50% of the pupils are asian call it "the little prince syndrome". He is a practiced mother manipulator using a combination of adoration and helplessness and guilt. He also eats like hes about to die of starvation (seconds and thirds), unsurprisingly he's overweight. Like Arnolds "inheritance" he was brought up by his grandparents, a not uncommon occurrence . see http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/chinas-left-behind-children-its-not-what-you-think-8197950.html. (http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/chinas-left-behind-children-its-not-what-you-think-8197950.html.)
My first tack was to make it clear to him that his mother was now married and no longer at his beck and call. Second was to set up his own room at the opposite end of the house, where he spends the hours he should be learning English on QQ / Mandarin to his mates in China (Our internet bill has doubled). Third was to enroll him at an English class to get him out of the house ( and away from the fridge) 3 days a week, although he seems a reluctant learner. Finally, I tried that rotten 4 letter word WORK. Got him a part time job as a kitchen hand. He lasted 2 weeks before the boss had to explain that he was the boss and was not working for the sons betterment. Heres a YouTube link on how it feels WWT Slimbridge: Juvenile cuckoo being fed by reed warblers (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvx5JD3VyxI#ws) :)
All of this is a strain on me and the marriage ( as it is for Willy, Arnold, Rhonald, David E relationships - and I suspect, most who have progressed to Act 3 of our little drama).
In NZ we can request up to 6 counseling sessions for marriage difficulties,
so that is now in progress - the dude speaks both mandarin and english.
I've 'sold ' it to my wife because its free and will likely help her son.
( Chinese folk seem determined to deny there is any problem, less lost of face ensue )
Hopefully he can explain the facts of life about growing up clearly to our asian peter pan :)
And finally I'm looking at the house with a view to turning part if it into a self contained flat
(which will be available to him at a reasonable rental ) to separate him from his mother
and the fridge :-)
Funny thing tho.. all of the things I see in him that I dislike intensely, I've also done
myself at some time in my life... So its not a judgement or a vendatta.. just a remedy
Peace
David K
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The thing is I just had to put up with the son syndrome for a few days. I am not committed to it long term like many on here.
It is not just me that is against his attitude. He has worked in the business of three family members and he has been sacked from each for non communication skills! When he stayed here his Grandfather was also here. But he could not stand the grandson and went off to stay with another daughter until the boy left.
I think that the talk we had has sunk in and he is now the other side of China and is working selling cars and apparently his communication skills have improved. He mother has told him that he can visit but not stay here.
One thing my wife is certain of that as the mother of a son she will never take on the chore of looking after a child of his if ever he gets married. Well not in my lifetime that is.
Willy
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The mother with son discussion is very interesting, and one that will hopefully be something I will have to deal with sooner or later.
The discussion about new members and their lack of discussion/questions is something I would like to bring back to the front.
Anyone can read any of the messages on this forum, without registering, and without posting (anonymously). I know it has been mentioned before, but I believe that only certain topics should be available for public, anonymous access. This would solve two issues. One, more people would register. With a username, maybe they will post more. Two, this would greatly reduce the lurkers that are undoubtedly there looking for personal information.
Every other forum I have ever joined requires a valid email address, with a confirmation email check in order to post. Maybe the complete lack of security is what is holding some people back from posting questions.
There are some very bad people in this world. I had an encounter with one while I was in China a couple weeks ago, but I am hesitant to post about it publicly.
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The mother with son discussion is very interesting, and one that will hopefully be something I will have to deal with sooner or later.
The discussion about new members and their lack of discussion/questions is something I would like to bring back to the front.
Anyone can read any of the messages on this forum, without registering, and without posting (anonymously). I know it has been mentioned before, but I believe that only certain topics should be available for public, anonymous access. This would solve two issues. One, more people would register. With a username, maybe they will post more. Two, this would greatly reduce the lurkers that are undoubtedly there looking for personal information.
Every other forum I have ever joined requires a valid email address, with a confirmation email check in order to post. Maybe the complete lack of security is what is holding some people back from posting questions.
There are some very bad people in this world. I had an encounter with one while I was in China a couple weeks ago, but I am hesitant to post about it publicly.
I agree with your thoughts about requiring people to become members before being allowed to have full access to the site, the downside is that someone has to review profiles if you really want to keep the undesirables out. I review every profile that applies to join my site, but my membership levels are small so it is not difficult to monitor the site daily for any suspicious activity or offensive comments. You will also discover as I have that many people who only want to post spam or collect e-mail addresses will usually join using a fake e-mail so the if you do use the e-mail verification link then that would only limit some of your problems. If you look through the membership roster you will see where many people join and never return again, but they normally leave a url in their signature line hoping to score some spam points. I usually go through my membership roles and delete any members that have not logged in to the site in over 90 days to keep my records and files easier to manage. I also think many people would prefer some of the forums and other features be made available to members only. Regards, Robertt
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We have talked about putting limits on none registered users.It was decided that.The information is best suited to be a open forum.There are registered users here.Who have not posted.As far as checking out new members.Yes Martin and I do it all the time.If you register here.And your signature line looks funny.Or there is advertising attached to your signature line your account is closed.If your profile doesn't look right.I or Martin do run I.P checks.everytime a new member registers here.A notice goes straight to my email.And I check out the new member from there.In average we ban probably 4 or 5 new members a month.Because the information they have given us doesn't match there profile.Or there is some kind of advertising attached to the signature line.
As far as deleting old none active accounts.I don't have a problem with that.It will have to be put to the mods for a vote.There is a wealth of information here.And yes it is disorganised.But if we go threw and delete the back and forth between some of the members.The threads wouldn't make any sense..so you would loose the topic of the thread rendering it pretty useless.
We have tried to control the back and forth between the members here.But we met with allot of opposition.Because we had deleted somebodies fart joke.And they got offended.Because one of the mods had the audacity.To delete said members post.All though it had nothing to do with the topic being discussed.Then said pissed off member sends me a nasty Pm.About how oppressive my mods are.And have I ever heard of free speech.It just escalates from there.first comes the nasty name calling then comes the threats of bodily harm to myself or one of my mods.Then I have to really ban the member.Then all his so called friends think they have to get involved.Sending me nasty Pm's.Because I have just banned there best and only friend in the world.Remember this got started over a fart joke.So we do let the back and forth run its course.This is supposed to be fun.And a true adventure.It isn't worth getting beat up or shot over.Or reading somebodies verbal abuse.
The veterans have made this web site what it is.If you don't like what you have done.Then change it.Go threw your posts delete all the fart jokes.The useless information in your posts.Take responsibility for your own actions.Don't expect somebody to come along and clean your mess up.This job doesn't pay my bills.Or put food on my table.I'm just here trying to help you guys out.and trying to keep this a happy and clean place to hang out while your trying to figure out this Chinese woman thing.
Neil send me a Pm I'm really curios to here what happend.
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What Maxx wrote is totally true...every mod has probably taken a pile of abuse for trying to keep things organized here. Off the top of my head, I can think of a few members over the years who have torn a strip off me for editing, or deleting something they wrote. It is hard to balance keeping things moving on a certain track, with someone's off track post.
As far as new people joining, and trying to glean personal information...email address's are always hidden from other members. Irishman and I have access to your email address, and maybe Maxx.
That being said, I am open to any and all suggestions on how you think we can liven up this forum.
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I think what Maxx said is a good idea, funnily enough I thought about doing that many times..
Everyone go through their posts and if NOT really relIvent, DELETE IT....of course this is time consuming, but we mostly not doing anything anyway ;D ;D ;D
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I'd like to say that, on occasion I have given Martin hell for some of the things he has done. I apologize for it. I don't think I've ever given Maxx hell. He scares the hell out of me. ;D
Really it is up to us to police ourselves as grown, mature men. The mods shouldn't have to do it. I agree with Maxx in that we have gotten what we asked for when we complain about the other guy or how things are done on this site. People will say things behind the keyboard they would never say face to face. I know I am guilty of it. It has taught me to clean up my act and has also improved my relationship with Peggy.
I wish I knew what would set this site back on fire again but I really don't. Many of the issues have been hit on here. In my mind the biggest issue is the economy. I scrap for every dime I make. I still have my regular job but since the downturn in the economy I have gone bankrupt in my store and am still paying off debts from that. I have been selling on ebay and half.com which is nothing more than a royal pain in the hinder parts. Now I have opened a new store and am hoping for good things to happen. Eventually something good will come of all of this.
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I'd like to say that, on occasion I have given Martin hell for some of the things he has done. I apologize for it. I don't think I've ever given Maxx hell. He scares the hell out of me. ;D
REALLY??? MAXX??? If only you knew the things you could get away with saying to him!
I can relate to what you said about the financial downturn. At the beginning of the recession, I sunk, and as a result, had to delay doing the immigration stuff. For me, the recession has been over for awhile, but if I was in other industries, or other countries, I likely would not embark on this journey at all. Its too expensive when the economy is so uncertain.
And Shaun, I appreciate the apology, but it is not needed. At one time, I had pretty negative thoughts about you, but you certainly have proven to me more than once that you are a really good man.
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Thanks Martin. Really... I'm not afraid... I was just trying to help his image a little. Most of us know how it works. Don't pay any attention to the man behind the curtain.