China Romance
All About China => Visas, Immigration and Emigration => Topic started by: Willy The Londoner on May 11, 2013, 11:58:16 pm
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It would appear that new rules are going to be introduced in the UK from 2016 concerning widows pensions.
At the moment when a man marries then even if his wife has no pension rights herself and her husband dies, she is entitled to receive a State Pension from the date she becomes entitled to a pension, (currently 60 years of age but rising over the years).
This is what was announced last week in the Queens Speech.
'As part of this change, derived entitlement to the basic state pension - where someone receives a married person's pension or a widow's or widower's pension based not on their own working life but the National Insurance record of their spouse or civil partner - will also go.'
Therefore it definately affects couple like us who live outside of the UK. When I 'pop my clogs' my wife will not be able to claim any of my state pension even when she reaches the UK pension age for woman. At first reading of the proposal it looked like that it only applies to those living outside the UK. However on closer inspection of the proposal it is now proposed that the pension will not be paid in such circumstances whether the widow lives in the UK or outside. The proviso is that the women will have needed to have earned her own pension right so this will apply to any women that marry UK citizens.
For those back in the UK with their wife then I suggest that you look into this and if necessary make your own private arrangements whereby your wife will be supported after die. I had already put that is place here with private pension packages etc taken out here in China.
Willy
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Yeah this is another part of be careful what you wish for. Daily Mail readers were outraged about paying pensions to foreigners or those who hadn't paid in, and of course the whole immigration thing. But the result is that if you want to marry a foreigner you'd better have a lot of cash or live permanently abroad. Older guys seeking Thai brides in particular have been hit with a lot of new issues to worry about.
Luckily I have a couple of private pensions, although by the time I find a wife I'll probably be drawing my pension anyway.
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Yes, immigration issues are popular voter bait here also. I personally feel that your spouse should be eligible to receive your pension in the event of your demise ( immigrant or native citizen ). Illegal immigration is a major factor in the equation that caused this ruling, immigrants ( legal and illegal ) are draining the coffers of social services. Here, the immigrants that do work here use all the tax breaks created by the Affirmative Action policy that greatly reduce taxes or completely defer taxes for minorities, immigrants, and women, they then send their earnings abroad for their retirement in their homeland. The perfect profile for a SBA loan here is to be a handicapped woman from Pakistan. Here we have the same problems as the UK and will be facing the same austerity measures the UK is implementing on foreign spouses soon or our taxes will continue rising to maintain the current level of social services offered! Of course, any measures taken at this time are just like pissing into the wind until our borders are actually secured to prevent additional burden to the system. Mexico's economy receives BILLIONS in funds sent home from illegal aliens to their families that live in Mexico, that is why we will never get the Mexican government to cooperate in securing our mutual border. At this time in the USA, a spouse is entitled to her husband's retirement pension after his death, even a divorced spouse can claim benefits from the Social Security Agency, if the marriage lasted 10 years or longer.
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Yeah this is another part of be careful what you wish for. Daily Mail readers were outraged about paying pensions to foreigners or those who hadn't paid in, and of course the whole immigration thing. But the result is that if you want to marry a foreigner you'd better have a lot of cash or live permanently abroad. Older guys seeking Thai brides in particular have been hit with a lot of new issues to worry about.
Luckily I have a couple of private pensions, although by the time I find a wife I'll probably be drawing my pension anyway.
C'mon. What do you expect from the Daily Mail. The right ring newspaper to beat all right wing newspapers. They were outraged that people put out of work by a right wing government were having the cheek to claim benefits whilst looking for work. What do you expect when the ordinary people are being shafted by a millionaire based government that cuts benefits and gives millionaires a cut in tax.
I had never planned for my wife to receive a State Pension. I had made provisions for her in other ways by taking out pensions for her here. What she does with all my money when I eventually give up life is up to her. That's if she puts up with me that long.
You may have a private pension Brett but does it go to widow when you go. Not many do. Plus you do not have to live outside the UK. Get her in on the basic two year visa and she can get a National Insurance and go to work this building up her own pension right after quite a few years. Once she qualifies for even a small pension she can then leave the country and if its not to a EU Country she can take with her a frozen pension. If she lives in a EU country she will get the yearly increases.
That's why I suggested people in this position should prepare as soon as she arrives.
Willy
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Willy,
When it s time for me to check out my wife will not even be close to the entitlement of receiving a portion of my SS benefits. I plan to provide for her after I am gone by other means. I have this new house which I hope will be paid for. I have a rental property that will provide some monthly income for her or she can just sell it and throw a big party with the proceeds. At that time ( I hope a long time from now) she will have earned some SS benefits and when she is 65 she can draw her own pension like the rest of us. I also never intended her to draw any government pension benefits other than those she has earned.
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Willy,
When it s time for me to check out my wife will not even be close to the entitlement of receiving a portion of my SS benefits. I plan to provide for her after I am gone by other means. I have this new house which I hope will be paid for. I have a rental property that will provide some monthly income for her or she can just sell it and throw a big party with the proceeds. At that time ( I hope a long time from now) she will have earned some SS benefits and when she is 65 she can draw her own pension like the rest of us. I also never intended her to draw any government pension benefits other than those she has earned.
Gerry,
Actually your wife might be able to draw survivor benefits for herself and her daughter based on your earnings history.
Your wife can collect under this requirement: receive survivor benefits at any age if you take care of the deceased workers dependent child under the age of 16 or is disabled and receives benefits based on the workers records.
Dependent= natural children, his or her step-children, grandchildren, and adopted children may receive benefits under certain circumstances.
Your step-daughter: If you are the unmarried child under 18 years old ( up to 19 years old if attending elementary or secondary school full-time ) of a worker who dies, you can also be eligible to receive Social Security Survivor benefits. You can get benefits at any age if you were disabled before the age of 22 years old and remain disabled.
Here is a link to the SSA page that explains the benefit amounts for survivors! http://www.ssa.gov/survivorplan/ifyou5.htm (http://www.ssa.gov/survivorplan/ifyou5.htm)
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I think the USA is different on this score and lets hope it never changes. The Brits used to say the same but they have had a shock in recent years.
The problem is the UK has a Co-allition Government. The worst type of government ever. They come up with an idea, spin it and if it gets approval that take it on and try to make it into law. Get a great deal of boo hoo and they drop it.
The problem is the UK mainly was a two party system then a third middle ground started to make inroads and when the election could not provide a majority the right wing party formed a co-allition with the smaller party.
If the these two put as much effort into running the country that they do in trying to make the co-allition work then the UK would not be in the position it now is. As a result a new Ultra Right Wing group has come forward from the depths and in the recent local elections took a major slice of the votes. Their argument was that Britain was for the Britons and that all the ills in the country are caused by foreigners taking advantage of getting into the country for their own financial gain.
I remember once before that a ultra right wing party came to prominence on the same sort of bandwagon and look what happened when its leader, Herr Hitler, took more than half the vote then.
Willy
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Yes, Willy, the UK is not a happy place to be at the moment. Not when these clowns get taken seriously:
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/ukip-membership-drive-to-include-free-golliwog-2013050167224 (http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/ukip-membership-drive-to-include-free-golliwog-2013050167224)
Satire, but probably not too far from the truth.
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I think my SIPP is pretty flexible, but I'll have a look when the time is right.
On the other hand I dated a 25yo tonight, so she'd be able to work for a fair while before retiring! I was most impressed because she said I looked about 28!!!!
I have no idea when I'll return to the UK. Really it all depends on who I marry (if I manage to find the right lady).
With a bit more Mandarin I should be OK for a job in HK or Singapore, although as a backup plan I'm getting a bit of English teaching experience at my new University.
I'm having so much fun here it's going to be horrendous going back to the UK!
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I'm sure that my wife will not get any of my ss when I pass. I was married for 27 years to a... well... you know what I mean. She's just waiting for me to kick the bucket so that she can get her little grubbies on it. So I've change the beneficiary of my 401k and 403b to my wife.
Peggy is paying into a retirement plan from China and they just told her she needs to pay 41600RMB into the plan by the end of the year. I'm not sure what to do in this matter.
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Shaun Why? is Peggy behind on her payments or something?
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I'm sure that my wife will not get any of my ss when I pass. I was married for 27 years to a... well... you know what I mean. She's just waiting for me to kick the bucket so that she can get her little grubbies on it. So I've change the beneficiary of my 401k and 403b to my wife.
No such problem in the UK. Once you divorce then the previous wife gets nothing from your contributions into the state pension as a matter of course.
Willy
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Willy,
In the US after 10 years of marriage the ex is entitled to a portion of the Social Security when she turns 65. I don't know what portion size she gets but she gets something for all her love and devotion.
As Robertt pointed out if you were taking care of a minor child then she gets a piece to carry on with the care. Its all sort of complicated but they try to take care of everyone with a little piece that is left over when you croak.
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Gerry has it right (for the US SS). My divorce papers has in it my ex gets nothing but then again I wasn't married over 10 yrs. They use a formula for each situation. Give them a call Shaun. Let them know about remarriage. Maybe there's a loophole to it?
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Geez, lucky I live in Oz, after the divorce is final if you haven't settled everything than tuff luck. But then again we had no kids so there was no extra payments on my behalf. Xia will get my Navy pension for life and current superannuation when I punch out as she is my nominated next of kin end of story so simple, besides as Oz is such a benevolent country (tongue in cheek) she can go and get some type of welfare payments at any time.
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I don't know if she is behind or not. I will find out though. I will also call the SS administration and find out more.
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Shaun,
As long as your ex does not remarry before she reaches 60 years old she can receive benefits based upon your work records. If she remarries before 60 she does not, unless she is caring for your natural child under the age of 16. Even if she did qualify it does not affect Peggy's survivors benefits.
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Dang Robert. She's got a year and a half. To the best of my knowledge there isn't anyone in the wings.
Is there a book called match making for your ex? :-\
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Willy,
I'm not sure if I really understand what is going on with my wife's retirement. If I understand it correctly she never invested into it. I was assuming that it was something new that she had gained access to.
She went back to previous employers to document the time she had worked in various companies. Now she is trying to catch up the times she was either self employed or un-employed. The amount of money is pretty steep by what I am seeing.
Shaun
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Willy,
I'm not sure if I really understand what is going on with my wife's retirement. If I understand it correctly she never invested into it. I was assuming that it was something new that she had gained access to.
She went back to previous employers to document the time she had worked in various companies. Now she is trying to catch up the times she was either self employed or un-employed. The amount of money is pretty steep by what I am seeing.
Shaun
As I see it then there may not be any point in chasing it. I understand that as soon as she gets a green card she loses her entitlement to any Chinese State Pension. That's the way I always understood it. Or are you refering to a private pensions that seem to pay a low rate, Western Style, for a lot of money.
What you quoted earlier seems to me quite a high sum. We buy blocks of ten year payments at 5,000 a year (Total cost 50,000 rmb) and just one of these will give the average woman a 'get by' lifestyle when in old age.
Mind you buying property so she can rent it out could be a better prospect as if she gets in need of a larger sum in later life she can always sell one.
Willy
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Willy,
you are right. when she leaves China and gets the green card she forfeits her SS.
Fiona went and checked and that is what she was told. So Fiona gave up any rights to her pension and forfeits all the money she has paid into it over the years.
Her only benefits will be those she earns here in the USA by working and paying into the SS system. Or if I last 8 more years she is entitled to mine.
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As long as the Chinese national does not obtain citizenship in another country and keeps paying into the Chinese system they can draw the pension when they retire. The main kicker is that China DOES NOT recognize dual citizenship, so obtaining citizenship elsewhere will give the Chinese a reason to withdraw your Chinese passport and all associated benefits available only to Chinese citizens. The best method is to allow the Chinese spouse to retain her name and not apply for citizenship elsewhere. This will allow her to always retreat back to China in the event of divorce or your demise and still have all the benefits of the Chinese citizen. She will need to maintain a bank account in China where her pension funds can be deposited, she can use them when she visits or make sure her bank has ties with PayPal and she can transfer the money elsewhere. There is not a lot of added benefits to gaining citizenship here aside from voting, because many federal assistance programs are available to legal permanent residents after 5 years of continued residence state-side.