China Romance
All About China => Share your love story => Topic started by: David E on November 07, 2013, 04:22:52 pm
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Just when life has setled into a state of normality and stability, after nearly 3 years of marriage....a real bastard curved ball came out of the blue and has got me reeling...
Some 4 days ago, Ming was reading me a snippet from some Chinese news App. she has constantly running on her I-Phone..
It regarded a story about a couple who were walking along a a rocky beach and the woman slipped and fell into some pretty bad water. The Man (very sensible in my opinion) was not inclined to jump in and try to save her because he was not a particularly strong swimmer and realised it would be near certain suicide if he jumped in, resulting in the outcome that BOTH of them would die, and nobody would be left alive to care for their kids/family.
So he legged it off down the beach calling for help, and fortunately got some assistance to get her out before she was drowned. She was pretty beat up by the surf and the rocks and spent weeks in hospital recovering.
Ming asked me what I would do if she fell into the water in a similar scenario. I reponded as we have been advised to do over many years of "water awareness" in Aus, that I would do the same and go for help. I explained that my suicide and her death would achieve nothing and better that one of us survived, and at least increased the chances of her surviving if I could find professional help quickly enough.
This apparently was the wrong answer...so I got a real vitriolic blast about how selfish I was, how uncaring about her, and how I was always thinking of myself as No 1, just like all Men...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I got real pi...ed off with this response, considering all that I had done for her in the past 4 years to bust my ass to ensure she had a good life here with me...I wont list all these things because I dont want to get into a "points scoring" contest with her...it achieves nothing...but you get the drift.
Since that time, even with the Maxx 24 hour rule in play, life has been hell. She tells me the marriage is broken and is talking about divorce and returning to China. I thought a day or so of the "miffs" would get this rubbish out of her system and life would return to normal...but it is getting worse...she is out all day now with her Chinese friends, does not cook or anything, does not speak or want to discuss it....
I've got about 24 hours left on MY fuse before it finally hits the gunpowder and I will blow this whole thing to smithereens...such a trivial issue should never trigger such an irrational response...I gues there is something else going on here that I dont know about...but I'm buggered if I know what and she wont talk about it......
Watch this space...things will get very heated around here very shortly.
So sad
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David, I consider you a much smarter Man than myself here.. but you "Should" have known better "Not" to give an answer like that. It doesn't matter if you think otherwise, you definitely jump in after her (when she asked you).. doesn't mean "If" it would happen you have to then.
This was one "Hidden" or "Sneaky" test that she took adventage off and you got tails instead of heads. I think we should all install the 24 hour rule into our Ladies/Wife as soon as the first date. It is a two-way street agfter all ( at least in the western world it is) but you know the Traffic in China....
Wish for a good outcome for you David!
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Yes Arnold...I was fully aware that the answer she was looking for was that I would jump in and try to save her...whatever the cost.
In fact, if we were in the early stages of a courtship or even a marriage I would have told the "lie" and responded accordingly.
But heavens above, we have known each other for nearly 5 years now, and she has lived here in Aus with me for nearly 3 years. Surely there comes a time where trust and honesty should override such "cosmetic" and false responses between a married couple.??? And yes, I also understand that "I can take Ming out of China, but I cant take China out of Ming".
Especially considering that my ACTIONS towards her have always conclusively proved that she is of extreme importance in my life....I have done EVERTHING I have ever said I would do, and been a reliable, honest and caring husband.
I dont play around, I have always considered her culture and feelings in how I have re-structured my life to doubly ensure she is happy....my conscience is squeaky clean.
I can even accept and not get concerned over a short term spat from her over my response...but I cant/wont allow such trivial bullsh**t to continue to present such a corrosive and uncomfortable state of affairs to exist as it does right now.
After all, I too have a cultural background that is just as important and different from hers...and that includes a natural aversion to getting into the habit of telling lies just to keep the peace...it's a two way street.
What has irked me most, is that such a ridiculous state of affairs has come to pass from a "no-consequence" , theoretical arguement over a theoretical no-consequence set of circumstances that in reality have no relevance. Besides which, in the cold light of reality, I guess I am not quite prepared to commit suicide on her behalf...or anybody's !!!!!...nor am I prepared to lie about it to preserve some obscure set of Chinese cultural norms that I neither know or care about in this SPECIFIC issue of jumping into a death trap so that we can both die
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Wow, I agree - the rational just seems to take second place at times. Seems like theoretical discussion has to be off limits, which I can understand is something you usually get enjoyment from discussing. In my relationship, it is sometimes a challenge when my wife gets new, big ideas for starting different businesses. Theoritical discussions don't seem to be a sticking point as it appears to be for you.
Seems like stable has its other meaning as in a home for a wild horse.
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.... from a "no-consequence" , theoretical argument over a theoretical no-consequence .... , so what is a theoretically lie to save ones ass or marriage in your case. I totally agree with your thinking for not having Japanese blood in you and saying goodbye to this world to keep another Person happy in her ill fated moment.
Just the other night Qing and I watched "The Abbys" (I have seen it before not so Qing) and when their Craft was about to flood with only "ONE" diving-suit, the Woman chose to drown herself to be pulled by the Guy to the Main Station and then try to revive her there. Anyway, I told Qing that I would definitely give her the suit... without any hesitation she corrected me... that she must give it to me. I can see, this could lead to a Fight that most likely cost both our Life's before it's settled. There is something instilled in these Women, that is even harder to figure out then our "Normal" western Girl's for sure.
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Yep...watched "The Abyss"...but that was a completely different scenario...
Giving the only suit to the man was the best way to increase the probability that BOTH would survive...the man ( being stronger) could more quickly tow the drowned woman back to the rig...and under conditions of hypothermia, she would have a very good chance of revival. To give her the suit would be likely to result in BOTH of their deaths....she would struggle to get back to the rig before he suffered irreversible brain damage.
To jump into a raging Ocean to rescue a woman...without any life support, or specialist training is the highest probability for both to die. To go for professional help is the best chance for both to live.
I am sure that the problem I face is not one of odds or probabilities...it is one of "face"...I bet she has discussed this scenario with some of her scaly Chinese mates who were totally convinced that their husbands would NOT jump in......just see it as an opportunity to get a younger wife..... :-\ :-\...whereas Ming and bragged that HER LG would immediately leap in and save her...my response put the mockers on her statements and she loses face.......not my problem !!!!...I am the innocent victim here....and not happy about it.
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The worse thing is that you are being honest and yet, you get dammed for it. You seem to hit the nail on the head thinking the situation is due to face.
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David I recently went through an ordeal with Peggy that brought us to critical mass. It was either going to kill the relationship or make it better. Peggy spoke of divorce. She consulted with her friends. She lost a lot of face. We fought about it a lot. Finally I just got quiet and gave her space. On my own, and I know this isn't your cup of tea, I spent time praying about it. I did some private consulting with Maxx over the issue but the biggest thing that happened was giving her time to sort everything out. Then after about 1 1/2 weeks she began to thaw out a little and we finally got back on track. Everything is good now. Remember that these women like to blow off some steam but they are practical.
I don't know if this will help you but if it does great.
Another thought just came to me. Menopause!!!!! :o :-\
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Another thought just came to me. Menopause!!!!! :o :-\
Yes the time that us Men need to pause before commenting!
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The worse thing is that you are being honest and yet, you get dammed for it. You seem to hit the nail on the head thinking the situation is due to face.
Well yes, but did Ming have time to even talk to anybody regarding this artical? Only then would 'Face" be involved... right? It sounds more a -one on one- question. On the Honest part, I also have been told many times that I'm too honest by many Folks. As the World turns, so do the Morals.. I guess?
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David my computer is trying to eat it self right now.I think I know whats wrong with your wife. and I think I can tell you how to fix it.So I will write a proper post after I get this dammed computer straightend out.In a couple of hours.Till I get this computer fixed don't do anything crazy
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Face would be involved as my wife likes to also think forward about the loss of face in things that have not yet even happened or might never happen. It is hard to say how hidden meanings are interpretted if language is not at a high level as well.
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My wife is going through the menopause as we speak. I can understand what she is going through. I am also glad that is is happening whilst she is with he family close by (same gardens, different block). I think that talking with family and friends about it is something that she could not do with me as her English and my Chinese is definately not up to such in depth conversations yet.
Us men will never know the effect that such occurences have on women. They have a distinct knowledge when they come into puberty and they have that same knowledge when the menopause kicks in. I did not really know when puberty first came to me and so far it has still not left me, well not completely.
My wife has needed a lot more reassurance at this time that I am here for the journey and I will definately not be looking for a younger woman. She does think at times that she is no longer a 'full woman' For me it was a relief as I never wanted to bring up children at my time of life.
I do not know how long the 'proceedure' takes but I have detected that slight change in her character and the fact that she tires more that usual.
I just hope for David's sake that this is the reason and that time will prevail.
Willy
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Rhonald,
"Another thought just came to me. Menopause!!!!! :o :-\
Yes the time that us Men need to pause before commenting!"
That is so damn funny! Amazing.
DavidE, I look at this strictly as a gender issue. No more than that. The question is hypothetical. Your answer should have been YES. It does not matter the situation,
it is just that will you be there for her in times of distress, danger, or whatever threatening event. You are her husband!
Think of it, what are the possibilities the two of you are on a rocky shoreline pounded by waves? If it be so, you had better be holding her tightly!
As you indicated, you have done much for Ming. The thing is, just file your lie in the file with the rest of everything else. Let it meld in time with all the good things.
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I can't add any valuable input here, but I am happy you are sharing this with us. It certainly gives me a lot of insight, and a lot more questions. I look forward to reading what Maxx has to say.
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[DavidE, I look at this strictly as a gender issue. No more than that. Your answer should have been YES. It does not matter the situation,
it is just that will you be there for her in times of distress, danger, or whatever threatening event. You are her husband!
Or, you can just avoid the rocky shoreline & the pounding waves. Running away to find help proves problematical (fatal) unless she is standing on a rock waiting for help.
The thing is, just file your lie in the file with the rest of everything else. Let it meld in time with all the good things.
John B:
Cant undo what I said....I said I would not jump in !!!....and I was truthful about it.
Besides, at some point in time a sound and healthy relationship should not need to proceed with a slow drip of lies to keep the peace....been there, done that !!!....dont like it.
I have demonstrated with DEEDS, not only WORDS that I would and have done everything within my power to give us both a good life...happy to do so, we are a mature married couple and dont want to go through this all again.
I feel sure that the article in question was the subject of much discussion between her and her mates BEFORE she broached the question with me....hence the possible loss of face issue.
I cant for the life of me understand why it has reached such a terminal situation in her mind...menopause is one consideration (good point)
I have done nothing to inflame or change the current situation....just sitting here waiting for her to do something which is TOTALLY against my inclinations >:( >:( >:(
Just had a phone request from my Bank to approve a Credit Card transaction.....air fare to China.....
If she goes....I wont let her come back !!!!
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sorry Dave, I did modify a few words in that post of mine.
it is a delicate situation you have. I fully understand the QQ mentality that is pervasive with our Chinese wives. Still, I think it (QQ) works both ways.
Maybe the situation of "re- direction" presents well now. A "surprise"! I read your feelings. I do not know Ming's, other than she is pissed royal.
I think best you present calmness, buy her flowers, take her out to a nice quiet dinner somewhere. Just get off the subject of this torment. It is not a healthy
situation to pursue.
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Ok you guys are making some good points.Menopause the lose of face.Giving her time to figure this out.All great ideas. I think her going to China by herself is a good idea.
Lets skip over that for now.And lets look at what started this.David wouldn't jump in the water.To try to save his best friend.Even though David can't swim.David was thinking about running down the beach and getting some help.Which is the right answear.But it is not the answear that David's wife wants to hear.She wants to hear that David would jump in the water.Giving up his life to save her life.What David's wife was after was To know. If David loved her enough to make that sacrifice.To know that someone loved her enough to trade there life for hers.
David is probably one of the smartest guys I know.He has twice the education that I do.And he dam sure writes better then I do.But that means nothing when it comes to something like this.it has nothing to do with brains or brawn.It is a simple matter of a affair of the heart.For his wife.She was looking for reassurance that she had made the right choice.For her sole mate.She was looking for reassurance that her man would do anything for her.
Try to look at it this way.Your wife walks up to you.And says hey do these jeans make my bum look to big.If you don't want to sleep with the dog.You had better tell her.That those jeans make her bum look very nice.
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Sorry my computer was trying to eat my post again.Anyway I don't know what they call it in Aussie land.But here in the states.We just call it being tactfull.Is it a lie technically yes.Doe's it keep the peace yes.Does anybody get hurt by it? No.As men we tell each other what we think of each other.Dam the bad feelings or the repercussions.Girls are the same with other girls.They say what they want. It is a totally different deal when it is a man and a women.whoever is asking the question is looking to see if there partners answear matches theres.If it doe's it's all the better.If not then there is going to be hell to pay.
FACE.did David wife loose some some face when she told her so called friends what David said.Yes she brought it on herself.And that probably made her madder.Because the so called friends were telling her what a bad choice she made when she married David.They are telling her that Because they don't have it as good as David's wife doe's.So they are jealous.And if they are miserable everybody else around them needs to be miserable.
David's wife needs a intervention.And she will probably get it from her family when she goes back to China.She needs to be reminded how it used to be for her in China.Last time David's wife went off the rails.A uncle or brother stepped in and told her.How bad she was about to mess this up.this kind of thinking is nothing unusual for a Chinese woman.For the first year of me and my wife's marriage.I used my mother in law to give my wife a intervention.At least a couple of times.
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After getting ripped a couple of times by her own mother.My wife would slow down and start to think about what she was doing our how she was acting.
Anyway let her go to China.But leave the dam door open.She will want to come back in a couple of weeks or months.And everything will be back to normal.If you close that door.It is allot harder to get it opened again.
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Maxx, "David is probably one of the smartest guys I know.He has twice the education that I do.And he dam sure writes better
then I do.But that means nothing when it comes to something like this.it has nothing to do with brains or brawn.It is a simple
matter of a affair of the heart..."
I think maybe time for the engineer to forfeit hard dimensioning in favor of poetry，such as it is a delicate balance that requires some deep
thinking. As I recall when I met Jing...there will be a few difficult times because of the cross- cultural mis- understandings that will certainly
come into play. We have to be ready for it, identify it, & adjust accordingly. Maxx, I suppose your '24 hour rule' is very appropriate in
situations we fully do not understand as happens.
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Sorry to hear that things are accelerating a little with your bank asking you to approve a card payment for the air fare.
That means that she has booked that without discussing it with you further first! If you had not authorised it then she would have more gripes to make, but if you did then again she could say you want to get rid of her! It is a 'no win scenario' mate.
I hope for your sake that this is just a storm in a teacup but I think that there is a strong possibility that there is something more to this than it being a case of answering a question with an unwanted answer.
I presume that everything went well whilst you were in Bali and this only occurred after your return? I hope that you were no eyeing up too many bikini clad women there?
With you being one of the more highly educated ones on this forum then you will know better than any if there could be any possible underlying reasons for this sudden wish to return to China?
I really hope that you can get this sorted pretty soon mate for both your sakes.
If she does go to China let her go with your blessings, tell her that the door will always be open on her return.
Willy
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The muddy waters just cleared a little bit...
Ming is a comitted Buddhist, you may all recall in the early days we went through a crisis whereby her local Buddhist Priest told her that marriage to a Lao wei would be a disaster...(you may also recall that we had a few testy discussions vis-a-vis "unequally yoked" between me and some of the Bros on matters religious ;D ;D
Thanks to good advice...I hopped on a plane and fronted this Priest in Chengdu (Ming was there too !!) and after a long discussion, and after he had peered deply into my eyes and had a good look at my soul etc etc he declared that I was a good guy after all and she would have a lifetime happiness if we married. ( I hasten to add that the fat wad of RMB that I shoved into the collection box had absolutely nothing to do with his change of heart).
Problem solved..............
Ming is now studying at a local College...she wants to get a formaL Teaching qualification so that she can teach in Perth, so she needs a supplementary Aus qualification to update and validate her Chinese Degree.
In this College she has got herself mixed up with a bunch of Chinese Born Again Christians (Catholics to be precise), they have worked on her and more or less convinced her to convert...with the whole Baptism, Catechism, Dogma, Communion etc etc. While they were at it, they naturally expressed a wish that her husband should convert too............when she told them about my religious views, they promised her that I would spend eternity in horrible turmoil in the fires of hell and that she would have to be right there along side of me if she could not make me convert to Catholicism.
Knowing that I would never be party to this, she has convinced herself that the marriage must end. The "drowning woman" scenario was a test that the scaly BAC provided to prove to her that I was an evil, cursed, selfish Man who desperately needed salvation.
So now she is going to Chengdu, armed with intros to Catholic Groups there, where presumably she will complete her conversion.
Sadly, none of this will include me...I wont under any circumstances have anything to do with it.
So here it all ends...and I think SHE is the real loser.
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David I am so sorry to read this thread about you and ~Ming...As a non practicing catholic, I understand your thoughts these people are the worst. I hope it all gets sorted mate.....Would be a sad end!!
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The muddy waters just cleared a little bit...
Ming is a comitted Buddhist, you may all recall in the early days we went through a crisis whereby her local Buddhist Priest told her that marriage to a Lao wei would be a disaster...(you may also recall that we had a few testy discussions vis-a-vis "unequally yoked" between me and some of the Bros on matters religious ;D ;D
Thanks to good advice...I hopped on a plane and fronted this Priest in Chengdu (Ming was there too !!) and after a long discussion, and after he had peered deply into my eyes and had a good look at my soul etc etc he declared that I was a good guy after all and she would have a lifetime happiness if we married. ( I hasten to add that the fat wad of RMB that I shoved into the collection box had absolutely nothing to do with his change of heart).
Problem solved..............
Ming is now studying at a local College...she wants to get a formaL Teaching qualification so that she can teach in Perth, so she needs a supplementary Aus qualification to update and validate her Chinese Degree.
In this College she has got herself mixed up with a bunch of Chinese Born Again Christians (Catholics to be precise), they have worked on her and more or less convinced her to convert...with the whole Baptism, Catechism, Dogma, Communion etc etc. While they were at it, they naturally expressed a wish that her husband should convert too............when she told them about my religious views, they promised her that I would spend eternity in horrible turmoil in the fires of hell and that she would have to be right there along side of me if she could not make me convert to Catholicism.
Knowing that I would never be party to this, she has convinced herself that the marriage must end. The "drowning woman" scenario was a test that the scaly BAC provided to prove to her that I was an evil, cursed, selfish Man who desperately needed salvation.
So now she is going to Chengdu, armed with intros to Catholic Groups there, where presumably she will complete her conversion.
Sadly, none of this will include me...I wont under any circumstances have anything to do with it.
So here it all ends...and I think SHE is the real loser.
I hate it for you David, there is one thing that will happen sooner or later though. You can look forward to knowing that she will soon meet some of the born again hypocrites and then she will most likely understand that religion is just as corrupt as politics. Then perhaps maybe she will understand that she has " to borrow a term from my veteran grandfather" sh!t in her own mess kit! :o
Hope things work out for the best!
Robert
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My two cents. Tell her you will enroll and take a class in rough water rescue...should the need ever arise. And perhaps improve your swimming capabilities. However, this will only respond to the symptom, not any underlying issues.
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As a former Protestant, and converted Catholic (opposite of Mike), I am thoroughly disgusted by what you wrote. The Bible (whether or not you want to read it) says nothing about people scaring someone into religion. In fact, the basic principles of Buddhism and Christianity are really not that far apart...peace, love, understanding. From there, they do take different turns, but I am not wanting to get into debate about religion here. I am sorry that these people have done this to her, and to you. I do wish people can keep their noses out of other peoples business. The bible also speaks against divorce...do these pin heads realize that they are causing a break in a marriage? Such short sighted do good gooders drive me nuts. Again, I am so sorry to hear of this rift in your marriage.
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David, I feel for you as a brother. I know this must be gut wrenching for you. I will keep you and your wife in my thoughts and prayers and hope that all can be resolved to both of your satisfactions.
I will stay out of the religious aspect of all of this and at some point may talk about it in the proper place in the religion thread. But for now I will refrain and be about my work and business that consumes most of my time these days.
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At my wife's first interview, the interviewer told me that they were concerned about our differences in upbringing and religion. It's always difficult for a marriage to survive when two people have different beliefs. It would be easy to blame these differences as the reason for the marriage problems. My concern is deeper. If a woman can forsake her lifelong religion and change her beliefs to align with some people she recently met, and forsake her marriage to a man she loves, I have to wonder about this woman's core motives. What drives a woman to change so drastically?
Honestly, it scares the hell out of me, and it's something that I'm sure we all worry about. Everyone says, is it a scam? Will she come home, and then take everything and leave? We've all heard stories of the lady being told things behind her husband's back that aren't true, usually by some other broken Chinese woman.
How can we guard against something like this? I don't know if there is any answer.
David, I'm truly sorry to read what's happening, and I apologize for speaking harshly about your wife. I hope things can be resolved.
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Neil good question.How can you stop your wife's friends from talking bad about you behind your back.Action speak loader then words.If you treat your wife right.She may or may not see it.Hopefully your wife will already know that your a good person.And the stuff your wife's friends are saying about you just go's in one ear and out the other.Or you can always confront said friends.That has worked for me a couple of times.
As far as Religion go's it is a slippery slope.And people do go from one to the other.Because they think there current religion isn't giving them what they need.Then Have someone hammer on you about there religious beliefs.And if your open to hear what they got to say it doesn't take long for them to make you a convert.
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I too will stay out of the religious aspect of all of this and remind all of you to remember what happen to JOHN1964 and his wife..I too have had some problems with my soon to be wife and I have done what Maxx has said about the needing a intervention.And I know she will probably get it from her family when she goes back to China.My soon to be mother in-law helps me out on the problems I have with Sammy...I am a black man on the forum and the problem I have with some Chinese people is that they tend to believe all the things they are told without checking it out them self. Try this For Example all black are violent people and drug dealer,they are not good English teachers etc etc.They see this on TV and movies and think we all are the same.Sammy have hear this from day one of us being together.Yes we have heard stories of the lady being told things behind her husband's back that aren't true, usually by some other broken Chinese woman.The thing I love about Sammy is if some Chinese person tell her something bad about me she come and tell me everything that was said and boy she is every mad at that person and want to do something about it.I remember one time she hear a women in the supermarket call me the N word in Chinese, she stop what she was doing and said to me this woman call you the N word.She was going to fight her right there.I said to her let it go, it's not worth it.David you have religious,people are using to take the two of you apart I have being black...How can we guard against something like these? Is there any answer?Yes!!!talk,talk, and more talking to them.From what I hear you are one of the more highly educated ones on this forum..This should be a cake walk for you...
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I really want to jump in here and give your lady a good verbal lashing. But because I am super sensitive over what a woman can do to a man I don't think I could control myself. She may profess to love you until the end of time but it is really until the end of the marriage is in sight. And if she is listening to her friends now just wait until they start advising her about divorce settlements. Maybe you think I am sill and cold hearted about this but I have watched a good wife of 10 years turn into a vampire at the mention of divorce.
You are way to old to start over and be sentimental. This marriage has been slowly disintegrating for the past few months. Sorry pal but protect yourself. I hope I am all wrong/.
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David, I'm on the fence with this one. Usually I'm a hardliner and will put up with no crap, thanks to previous manipulating women in my life. Life's lessons well learned and scars earned. Hong would cite culture and traditions to make her points. I would counter with reason and sensibility as most of the world functions. But you have 3 years invested, and you should know each other very well by now. Sure some of Hong's friends are feeding her garbage, but she trusts her husband, fueled by love. So far she has always stood by me. Your wife's bizarre behavior is of great concern. How's does one counter punch when left flat footed? She is your wife, friend, and intimate partner...and you get dumbfounded this way? You should be close enough to talk about anything.
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Hi Guys
Thanks for all the words of consolation and advice...all have been taken on-board ;) ;)
I guess part of the problem centres around her dilemma (compounded by difficulty in verbalising such a complex issue with still-limited language resource) in trying to contemplate religious debates with an Aethiest !!!!....I do empathise with her on that point, but I have never interferred with her Buddhist practices because it is a very benevolent path to follow, in fact before she had her license I would drive her to her Temple every week and wait for her to do what she needed to do. It never was an issue for me. In fact, she would not even use fly spray for flies and mossies, I had to do all that, even take the snails from the garden and release them in the local Park !!!!
And it is not difficult to imagine that the powerful skills of these Born again nutters, intensely schooled by the Church Principals, wreaking poweful and evocative emotions in a fellow Chinese person. To her, the issue quickly became an "us or them", and "black or white". Possibly if I was say a Protestant, or even an Agnostic she would have found it easier to get me involved much more early in the "Brainwashing"...with a better chance of gently getting common sense to prevail.
I have calmly and gently advised her on the REAL consequences of her decision....facts which were never canvassed by the scaleys.
Her Son is scheduled to come to Aus to do University as a Foreign Student...which costs a squillion...that now goes out the window, because she can only get a low paid job in her own right. So he will be condemmed to a low quality life for evermore....also, how can she continue to provide the money that I send to him every month so he can continue his schooling in China...his Bio-father wants nothing to do with him, he is too busy with his new Child-Bride !!!........she went very pale when THAT subject came up in our discussion !!!!!!
The Australian Family law provides for my protection as there are no biological children involved and she has made no financial contribution to the assets and cash flow in the Legally short marriage...quite the contrary. So she cant have 50% of my assets to continue the good life.....she will just get a nominal lump sum for "companionship and household duties" ...and whatever this sum is assessed at, I will fight it in the Courts with vigour...as is my right. Probably take at least 5 years to resolve. Meanwhile she has to get an apartment...not cheap, a job, not easy, other than the most menial and low paid stuff that no Aussie will do...as most of the Scaleys have found out already.
Pineau, I dont know if our basic mariage has been disintegrating for a while...at least I did not get this view. But maybe you are right, but it alters little about the scenario as it exists today.
Let me just say that in my experience (shared evidently by some of the comments here ) jealousy is alive and rampant amongst Chinese people, maybe the scaleys were uber-jealous and this is their way of bringing her down to their level on the fraudulent promise of a wonderful life in the hereafter, compared to eternal hell fire if she stays with me ????
Her flight leaves Perth on Tuesday at 1.05 am......we will see what transpires between now and then.
Cheers...David
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It's none of my business really, and if you don't want to answer, I respect that, but if she goes to China, and realizes the error of her ways, would you be willing to take her back?
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I think that we all admire you David for the way that you have dealt with this is a methodical and clear manner. You have set out quite clearly here what you have done and said since this problem came to light.
I am not a Catholic but think that if she had spoken to an experienced Parish Priest that he would have put her right on the matter. The problem is she has been got at by newly fledged Christians in college and even in the Bible these are described as the worst kind to give advice and that they should refrain from doing so. Simply because they do more harm than good.
I have never been married before now and having only been married for 4 years I am a fledgeling myself when it comes to marriage advice but I see one problem ahead and I have no doubt that you have thought about it long and hard. That is if she does have second thoughts about getting on that plane then you will always have the nagging doubt that it was for the elevated lifestyle she has enjoyed since getting to Aus and the other financial facts rather than wanting to be with you in a loving relationship.
No doubt you have already made an educated decision on this.
You know that we are all here for you as a listening post for any rants or rages or anything else you wish to impart.
Willy
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David, as I see your marriage... you have endured several low blows not only from your Wife but also her Son too. You have done what most Men would have done with a "New" bride, stick it out. Now you have reached (or been pushed to) the end of an (could have been) wonderful Life for both (3) of you. Any Man has his limit's and I feel you have come to an certain point, you don't want/deserve such treatment after giving her all you got to give. Qing and I talked about your situation, you know what she firstly mentioned... that she "Must" be one of little education (thus easy to influence by others) to see the great Life (if you are the great/nice Man we see here) you can and will provide not only for her, but also her Son. Qing also said, it is the Culture imprinted into her and it will not/never change. Only if it's too late and she had time (lots of it) will she see what she's lost. Kind of Childish really on her part, so I might give her one more chance (even an Ultimatum if necessary)... you have done your part period!
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I wish I had words of wisdom to add to all the great comments given here, but I can't come up with anything. I just want you to know that I am thinking about your situation and that I hope it resolves for you in a way which is good for you.
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I am not sure if I can give advice to David? We seem to have the same way of thinking. I am going through a similar situation. On a date site that has blogs & chats. A few months ago I met a Indonesian woman. She started it, I was minding my business. We talk everyday, always in touch and have gotten very close. What pops up every now and then is something troublesome.. she is Muslim. She has asked a few times if I would convert? for it seems it is a sin to be with or marry a non-muslim?
First let me say as a little side note. She is 18 yrs younger then I and very beautiful as well as educated and business owner. Other men have told her they would convert? But I have stood my ground and gave my feelings on it. I had told her (David take note) Do you want me to Lie to you and betray our relationship and convert? I won't do it.
So David, I would make these points to the wife. If she's still not listening then leave her a letter to read. Points being if you jumped off that cliff into the water how would she be saved by this? You jumping into the water to die when she is still alive? This is suicide and a sin in the catholic religion. Abandoning the husband is also a sin. And then if she wants you to lie and deceive her? Say you won't. Tell her you will keep her safe from harm and care for her for her life and that is why you feel she is doing wrong by converting.
Wish you luck
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Vince “.. she is Muslim. She has asked a few times if I would convert? for it seems it is a sin to be with or marry a non-muslim?
First let me say as a little side note. She is 18 yrs younger then I and very beautiful as well as educated and business owner. Other men have told her they would convert? But I have stood my ground and gave my feelings on it. I had told her (David take note) Do you want me to Lie to you and betray our relationship and convert? I won't do it.”
Vince, I'd do it; likewise, not convert. Florida must be very boring compared to Indonesia. I think your life would become very, very interesting. Something of new cannon fodder for this forum. I do not think a Muslim wife is of mention of anyone but you.
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When Jing 1st arrived in the States, I introduced her to the near- by Spokane Chinese community...a few hundred that meet every 2nd Sunday
of each month, in a Church. In retrospect, I was of the assumption based much on the wordage of this forum that Chinese have an easy time
integrating with their own. Anywhere. It never dawned on me that this would have the opposite affect on Jing. In addition to this once- a- month
meeting there are the usual get togethers of much smaller groups of Chinese. It was like maybe at the 3rd go or so, it didn't take long, that Jing
was accosted by a few of these women. Christian soldiers. In Mandarin. It shook Jing to her core.
In my opinion, brow beating evangelists/ fundamentalists are the ilk of the civilized world.
Does not matter if they are Christian or Muslim.
Back to Jing. She is unwilling to change for change's sake. Unwilling to adapt so readily, I think the local Chinese community impatient with their new
recalcitrant prospects, or maybe Jing is a slow learner afterall.
In retrospect, think of it this way, the only Western man close to Chinese assimilation is Willy. Still, he has not shaved his head, dressed in orange robes
and white sneakers, or drives a taxi. Well, I suppose his mandarin is improving. Western men do not do...assimilate. Or maybe, Willy is 'difficult'.
I think China must have been built on consensus. Any hope of an independent thinking wife may be a few years down the road.
Jing does not think selfish Chinese any longer. Jing realizes she is a very proud China woman but understands not all things China are good. So time on
experience is my ally with Jing.
It is a long & frustrating road to navigate but I will not change a thing. Just my perseverance as it stretches itself out.
QQ is Jing's bible to the western world. Amazing what QQ influence has on Jing. It can be brutal or can be good. It depends on which forum she is
plugged into. For us, as their Western husbands/ boyfriends, whatever, for us to sit at the computer & try as best we can...it is a difficult scenario to present,
of just what are our wife's thoughts, based on what we, as foreign husbands think. There is no cookie cutter approach to problem resolution.
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Florida is boring and part of the "Bible Belt". Which mean every weekend you get a different christian social group knocking at the door. Here they target the Hispanics for some reason? I have thought of checking Indonesia but it is a far cry from my way of living? So maybe just a visit. I have seen some chinese women have Muslim listed as their religion. Not sure how well they are now after the car bomb in T-sq? Besides I can't see dropping a relationship over religion. It's not a sin with God. It's a man made rule. All of it is in every religion.
Just hope David's wife doesn't realize the mistake after it's to late.
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Thanks again Guys for the help and advice.
There have been many good points canvassed, and much for me to contemplate.
There have been new developments in the last few days, but first let me respond to those of you who have been kind enough to get involved in MY little problem.....a special thanks to those PM's (you know who you are) offering help and advice....you all cannot imagine how it feels at this time to have so many people in my corner ;D ;D
I guess, in summary, I am old enough to have lived a life full of wonderful things, and full of various crisis along the way...its a function of growing old. There is very little in the way of crisis that will unhinge me..........hurt, yes, disappointed, yes, angry, yes...but destroyed...NEVER !!
Vince.......changing religion must only be done from dep wothin our heart...never to satisfy an external condition, in that I agree with you. I cannot see me changing my "religion" just to stop a woman leaving...that would betray one of the rocks on which I have built my life. And to even contemplate changing from an Aethiest (just as important to me as your various religions are to all of you) would be similar to the thought of removing my testicles without anaesthetics with a rusty razor-blade) !!!!!!!!! To change from a Aethiest to a Muslim...well I have no words to describe this...it defies the definition of madness.
Having said that, I CAN contemplate the thought of living with and loving a woman who had a different religious view to mine.....been there , done that...Mings Buddhism was never and issue and if she truly and passionately wants to be a Catholic, then I could deal with it in turn, provided that her conversion did not include me as a condition, which is NOT the case put forcibly to her by the Scaleys.
To Arnold and Quing...Ming is highly qualified...by Chinese standards...she has a Degree from Beijing Uni in Electrical Engineering....a 4 year degre no less. However, I also did a lot of Physics and Engineering stuff as part of my first degree which was in Chemistry and I was surprised to discover that Ming could not explain Ohms Law, or Faraday's or any other fundamental fact on which Electrical Engineering is based. So I dont think her qualification is worth diddly in Aus (neither does the Aus Education system...hence her need to go back to College to update...which was where she met the Scaleys)
So I concede, like most Chinese women she is really street-smart where money and daily living stuff is concerned, but has a very limited knowlege or interest in more fundamental life situations requiring deep levels of self- analysis and interaction with different and unique external perspectives....but I knew that and was ready for it....I was not looking for a female version of Einstein...just a warm, happy and loving woman...I was happy to handle all the other hard stuff !!!
Addded to that (which has been so correctly stated in this thread)...QQ and all opinions coming from Chinese persons are ALWAYS true...even when they are rubbish and totally contradictive of what I or any Western Person might say.....and that is probably the biggest problem we all face in this situation...it takes a loooooong time to overcome this basic frustration.
Enough rambling........down to reality ....
I asked her to tell me the name of the Church so that we could both go along to see the Head Priest and get the view "from the top" as to what he (and the Pope) thought about Catholics convertees who had an existing husband with no religion....was it acceptable, would she burn in hell....I hoped that he would bring a more rational perspective to the whole issue ( mmmmm :o :o...that's an oxymoron...a rational catholic Priest). I learned that she was dealing with a Private Church (did you ever hear of such a thing) and that she had to communicate directly with these Scaleys...and get this...MONEY had changed hands for her to buy a "Platinum" ticket to heaven................followed by a promotion to a "Diamond" ticket if she got me to convert and also pay some more MONEY.
Now I am busily engaged on a vigorous, vicious, balls to the wall, no holds barred pursuit of these SCAMMERS...I will make their life a living Hell for evermore..........they have no idea what horror is coming up the slope.
Watch this space.......
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??? Ticket's to Heaven? I heard of one way tickets to Mars, but this takes the Cake without question!
Man, if I was near your City.. I'd join you to kick some ass with these Bastards. Fight one Scam and here comes the next...
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You might check to see if the roots of this religion leads to Ada, Michigan. It sounds more like Amway than a religion.
Calling them scam artists rather than Christians would be more accurate. One can't buy their way to heaven via Platinum, Diamond, or a good lager.
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There is no such "franchise" in the Catholic (business) religion I can tell you that. If there is a Catholic church anywhere there? There has to be a Diocese (Head office). Make a complaint.
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you guys are much to nice. David, call the cops!
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No, no, no John....
Getting the cops involved at this stage will only get them a slap on the wrist with a wet bus-ticket....
What I have set in motion is something MUCH more relevant........but not for general publication....yet.
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David,
you have to admit, down deep, revenge is sweet.
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I know that there is a religion thread but as religion is a major part of the problem David has encountered then I feel that it can be discussed here.
The problem is that there are so many 'underground Churches' in China. Some are supported quite heavily by the Catholic Church based outside of China, especially from Hong Kong, but those supporters even deny the existence of them.
Churches are permitted in China which are regulated like everything else here. But the underground churches are the ones that cause problems here, these are the ones heavily influenced by some of the so called 'Elmer Gantry' style American Evangelist. I refer to those who do it for their own benefit of which a large number do.
They know that China will have or probably does already have the largest numbers of Christians than any other country and large numbers brings a very large dollar income. We all know the culture of the red envelope that is prevalent here and more so within these underground churches.
China is ripe for expansion for these but they are unable to do it through the normal Anglican style Churches that are allowed to openly operate.
Evangalism is not specifically banned but there is a law which they invoke which covers many things and it is one that outlaws the attempts to change peoples minds or opinions in public places.
You have a lot of fodder available to you David. I know that with your resources and ability you will be finding out more and putting it to good use.
I for one will back you all the way.
Willy
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Willy
You are exactly right....I feel more and more sure that these scum who have led my gullible ( >:( >:( >:) Wife down this track are setting her up with intros to other "like minded" special Catholics in Chengdu......I am sure they are out to keep milking this particular cow (no insult intended).
But she goes to Chengdu with very little money...all her sources of MY cash have been stopped and I know she only has limited funds of her own.
BTW...I know this all has a religious context, but we sure are not discussing Religion...so I think it's OK to continue...if the mods dont agree, please let me know.
I now know exactly WHO they are in Perth, I know where they live and I know something about how they operate. I will find out more in the next few days before I begin my own program of resolution.
And yes John..."Vengance is mine sayeth the Lord".........but I humbly beg to differ on this specific point.
Shaun...they are exactly that...SCAMMERS...I dont believe for one second that they are motivated by any Christian ideas of salvation through God....only luxury through extortion.
Vince...at some point I WILL get the local Catholic heirarchy involved...but here in Aus, after they have been shown abysnally and totally morally bankrupt over the Priest/Child abuse issue over 50 years or more...I doubt they will spring into action....how that Church could stand ANOTHER scandal is beyond belief....they would probably deny all knowlege of such a Scam.
Lastly, Willy...she WILL get on that plane, I insist. She WILL have discussions with her Chinese Catholics and she WILL have to face her parents and relatives over this issue.
What I have NOT guaranteed is whether I will be in a frame of mind to let her back into my life/home. I cant stop her coming back to Aus...she has that right as a permanent Resident...but I can stop her coming back to me...........I dont want to make that decision yet...things are too raw and I know that "When it is not necessary to make a decision...it is necessary NOT to make a decision".
Nil desperandum
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This thread is fine where it's at.
Maxx
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Nil desperandum
David, I know that you have given this a great deal of thought and you are the one to make decisions from your side.
I like to hear you quoting that old English phrase. Well maybe Latin but probably the only one that most British men can translate.
Willy
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David I know I said that I would not participate in any religious discussion here. But I would like to share a few comments about cults and I will use previous published information about a cult called, "The Way International." There is much written about them on the internet and in books. I am hoping this might give you some insight to what might be going on with your wife. I am not saying your wife is a member of a cult but it isn't beyond the realm of possibility. I am saying that scam artist will use cultish ways to recruit new members.
"One of the most damaging aspects of The Way is the ability of its leadership to control many of the thoughts and actions of its followers, using tactics of mind control. This is not strictly speaking "brainwashing" (which uses physical abuse), but is the use of emotionally manipulative tactics to direct a person's attitudes and behavior. The Way also routinely condemns everyone outside the organization of being "possessed by devil spirits." The Way member often tells the children of divorced parents to be wary of, resist, not obey, or avoid the fallen-away parent (the one who has left The Way) to protect themselves from the influence of the parent's devil spirits."
"Way teachers also typically attack verbally anyone who is not in The Way, so as children accept Way teaching, they tend to turn against parents and family members who are not in The Way. "
"Steven Hassan, in his book, Combating Mind Control, describes several features common to groups like The Way, which use such tactics of mental coercion, including:
•making followers fearful that terrible things will happen to them if they disobey leadership or leave the group. Way leaders say that if followers disobey, they will be "outside the protection of the household," and so they "will be a grease spot by midnight," that they will be involved in a terrible accident, and that they will destroy their relationship with God.
•requiring followers to obey leadership strictly, even on seemingly minor issues, and even when obedience damages the followers' lives. For instance, Way members are compelled to sell their homes if there is a mortgage of any size (even if rental rates are much higher than the mortgage payment), quit a job, and move to a new city to be near leadership.
•inducing thought control by requiring recruits to use only approved language and jargon.
•causing followers to block out all information from outside the group. They are required to burn literature which was written by former followers of The Way who left it, even if the content of the books does not contradict current teachings of The Way. They are not allowed to read literature critical of The Way, are told not to read teaching by any religious group except The Way, and are taught that even distributing the Bible without The Way's teaching will mislead people.
•isolating followers by requiring them to forsake all outside activities (including children's school activities) in order to devote long hours to group meetings and work.
•"confronting" errant followers by yelling, screaming, cursing, haranguing, and verbally battering followers until they obey leadership.
•compelling youth, as well as parents, to "renew their minds" by submitting themselves to constant indoctrination, including The Way publications, classes, taped sermons, and so forth. They are compelled to attend Way meetings several nights a week, usually at the expense of all other school, community, and family activities."
Having been through something like this with a close family member, I know how maddening this can be to those watching it happen. The scam artist find a weak point to enter into someone's life, fill them with some apparent truth, then slowly enlighten them with some special knowledge that to someone like you or me is nothing but foolishness. Once they have accepted that, they are hooked because they have some special revelation that most don't. I can see how easy it is to snare some into cults like this.
The diamond and platinum twist is something I've not heard of before which sounds a little cultish to me.
Your wife has had a lot of new ideas, concepts, and social standing thrown at her over the last few years. I can easily see how one can be sucked into something undesirable like this.
I hope some of this helps as you decide your future.
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Like Maxx said, the thread is fine. This isn't a religious debate...this is an actual real event taking place, so it stands separate from a religious debate.
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Shaun
Thanks for that info. I am more and more convinced that she is NOT dealing with any bona fide religious Organisation. It fits far more closely with a "cult" as you have described. I am still a bit mystified how she could so easily fall prey to such bloody rubbish...especially considering the quality of life she enjoys here in Aus....if she was an abused, no-hope, starving penniless Peasant I could see where the "promise" of a better life would have some appeal...but these Scaleys are all Chinese so you know the rule...."If it is said by a Chinese person, it carries the absolute mark of truth and should not be confused with facts" !!! I have found this to be a somewhat frustrating part of our relationship...she is prepared to believe some real rubbish when it comes from QQ or some other Chinese source and it has always been a struggle to inject some truth and logic into the debate.
However, in this particular circumstance, these bastards have forgotten Management rule No 34...." When you grab a Tiger by the tail...make bloody sure you have an effective strategy to deal with it's Teeth "......as I said before, they have no idea what horrors are coming up the slope.
Willy...there is a modern "version" of Nil desperandum...it is "Nil carborundum".....literally translated means "dont let the bastards grind you down" ;D ;D ;D
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Hello David E,
I do not reply much, just a few times here and there, but I also have learned and gained some insight as to the depth of these things through your posts, so thank you for that.
It seems that through some of the discussion here the situation went from defining love as committing suicide by drowning to now uncovering the intercession of individuals seeking to manipulate and control you wife through an undefined cult. Yet by the the same means that you established the spiritual authority by meeting with the priest in Chengdu, they say there is no one here to do that. So now you see things going back to China.
I have stayed out of this as I am a born again believer, but yes as it has been posted there are many that use that to set up their own church/cult/ business. But now you have separated the source of the divide, meaning it is no more about jumping in the ocean, and now jumping in the religious deception over what is right/true and what is bull#@$%.
I see that you are well able to jump in and grab your wife out of this, there are many ways,
There are many here that want to, and have been here to help you, but really be uncovering what is at the core of this divide is emotional and at the the same time very clear,
One way I may suggest is that if this is a group that bases its presumed legitimacy on Jesus Christ as Lord, then they are NOT a stand alone authority and what they are/ or are not/ teaching should be brought out in the light. Just like this ocean scenario can be discussed on what she would really want a husband who loves her to do.
Just another way to direct the issue, meaning her trust and your commitment,
I see this has been a hard one, I do honor you in this,
James C
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Thanks for your comments James.
The purpose (IMHO) of the "drowning wife" story was to implant in Ming's mind that I was very much in need of salvation, because only a "bad" husband would hesitate and not immediately leap in to the water to save his wife....even at the expense of his own death. I believe they made this point to ensure that I got dragged into their net....because they KNOW that I am the real source of big money for the future...if only they could get Ming to be the one who dragged me into this web.
They obviously have some expertise on working on Chinese people who have some level of vulnerability, I still find it hard to understand how or why she fell for this rubbish....maybe you are right, there is a deeper issue that I am not clever enough to understand. Whatever the reason, I can say with absolute honesty that I have bust my gut to make sure she had a great life here...and I dont know what else I could have done.
The purpose of me confronting the Buddhist Priest in Chengdu was because I had a defined target, with a defined agenda...he was easy to change. These people here are a less clear target....either they are serious in a religious sense, or they are just out-and-out scammers. That is the current focus of my investigations along with a number of Private and Official people who are now becoming involved. Either way, before making any moves it is essential to understand what and who they are, and then deal with it.
Once I have enough knowlege and understanding of what these people represent, I will move to resolution.
Cheers...David
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David E,
Sounds like the right answer, just as in the drowning scenario, (I agree these are deceptive, unethical, and very dangerous to their victims) in the previous matter of just jumping in to save someone who fell into rough waters, the best way to save them was NOT to just jump in, but get help.
As I mentioned, I am a born again believer, but this situation is not anything like what I found. These individuals are dangerous and need to be exposed.
Jesus taught Love, and Peace, she should know this from her Buddhist teachings, also
There is wisdom in Godly council, if you do have Christian friends maybe they can help.
If they really believe in what they are promoting as their religion then they are using the Bible, if they are scamming and manipulating then they have their own doctrine aside from the Bible. This is where the teachings and manipulation comes in subtly. It is not about faith, it is about control.
There are so many scriptures that can be twisted, and are. The Bible is straight forward about deception and truth but they can be measured.
David, a few of the basic ways you can define some of these things are what I use:
A, the difference between Love that is real and one that is twisted per the Bible, Love gives, Lust takes (they are taking or selling tickets)
B, there is wisdom in council, (they want to keep things close and quite)
C, Peace, not so much in society but in the home & heart, (they are tearing this apart)
Anyway, thank you for allowing me to respond I know the born again'ers are not tops on your list, but really this group is out-of-control, and not in line with trying to change their own lives, rather they are trying to manipulate others.
I do pray this will be exposed and your family made whole.
James C
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David is on the right tracks.
We need to remember it may not be the 'foot' soldiers that are the problem but those higher up in the feeding trough.
Religion is big business and I mean really big business. People realised long long ago just what can be earned from it. it is not unusual for some of these self proclaimed preachers to be raking in 200 million US dollars and more every year. And because of US Laws not one cent has to be accounted for - no one knows where it goes and into whose pockets.
One well known evangelist said that he would release his accounts but they never came and when asked he simply said 'God told me not to' The synical said 'Oh yea!' but his tens of thousands of followers keep on pumping in their 20 dollars a month to support his high life.
David is well able to fight this battle having set up his own parameters but if he needs any assistance we are here for him. We and others that come after us should remember it is not just our actions that can cause major problems within a relationship but those of 'outsiders' can play a part in it.
Willy
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Keep in mind that most pastors in America make between $100.00 - $200,00 a week. The larger majority of pastors are really doing what they preach and live the way the bible tells them to live. So please keep perspective on the subject.
I am sure that David is dealing with a group of individuals that have a larger cult of believers and have mastered the art of brain washing people. Why people get caught up in this kind of crap is beyond my understanding because I can see what they are doing. I guess I'm pretty cynical when it comes to people coming in with a new way of seeing God or trying to convince me of their new revelation. But people fall for it every day.
David I know you feel betrayed because of what has happened. But if there is a way to get into your wife's mind try to understand and see if it was malicious or innocence that caused her to become such a part of this.
More later if time permits.
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i have just logd-on and read this dilemma, im so sorry to read what has transpired here, I really wish that things for you and your wife will get sorted soon, I have just found some cds,dvds from my wifes friends church in her drawer, I wish that her friends would but-out of our life, John.
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Keep in mind that most pastors in America make between $100.00 - $200,00 a week. The larger majority of pastors are really doing what they preach and live the way the bible tells them to live. So please keep perspective on the subject.
We know that there are those but we also all know the multi millionaires who have more homes than most people have rooms and private jets and just do not get me into TBN. ::) They certainly have many ways of continually cajoling cash from the pockets of people in more need than them.
Willy
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Xmas has just been re-instated in my home....Ming comes home at 8pm tonight. ;D ;D ;D
We managed to resolve our issues over the past 2 weeks and hopefully we can put it all behind us and move on.
I finally convinced her that despite my own convictions, I will always support and encourage her in whatever religious stuff she wishes to pursue.
She got a job last year teaching Mandarin writing and speaking to Chinese children who were 2nd and 3rd generation Aussies and whose parents wished them to "re-learn" some of their Chinese roots. In this school she was exposed to a lot of other Chinese people...some of which were Religious predators...and she fell for it.
These bottom dwellers were all about scamming money...not proselitising true religion.
So when she comes back and is settled, I will arrange for her to get some PROPER advice about Christianity...and then she can make up her mind whether it truly offers her something that her previously held Buddhist convictions do not.
The Group that took her for money now face prosecution for a number of offences.....Collecting money but having no registration as a religious Organisation or Charity........Tax evasion.......Offences under the Trades Practices Act...Offenses under the Fair Trading Act...Offences under the Corporate Affairs Commission Act...to name but a few. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Additionally, I have begun a Civil Suit for recovery of the money and mental pain and suffering.........
That hopefully will keep them busy for the next couple of years and involve them in squillions of dollars of Solicitor and Legal costs...and if any of them are not Permanent Residents, they risk deportation too.
As they say "Hell hath no fury than a DavidE scorned/ conned"..(or something like that)
ps...In the current state of my emotional affairs I forgot to mention the Ashes series Willy........one word springs to mind...Yippeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee ;D ;D
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David E,
I am very happy that all worked out for the best. I was hoping you could expose these thieves for what they truly were. Hopefully she has learned a valuable lesson concerning scammers and con artist. I truly hope you two can now continue on in peace without any outside influences causing further problems. Season Greetings to you and Ming! :)
Best wishes for your future,
Robert
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David this is great to hear. You and your wife have been on my mind a lot lately and of course have been in my prayers. I am happy to hear that there is a positive move to reconciliation in your household.
I hope you chase the scammers to the end of their own rope.
I hope the 2 of you have the best Christmas ever.
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ps...In the current state of my emotional affairs I forgot to mention the Ashes series Willy........one word springs to mind...Yippeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee ;D ;D
As you know I was more than happy to receive your first bit of news. I would have loved to be a spectator at Perth Airport at tonight as I really like a good weep!
Talking of weeping you certainly rub it in with that post script.! Well that's going below the belt mate. This is a time for coming together and spreading great happiness but that obviously did not come to the mind of that current XI. Its lucky I gave up my Christmas's five winters ago other wise I would still be weeping over the Turkey tomorrow.
Willy
PS I do not begrudge the Aussies having an occasional win nowadays. But the MCG next week is going to be a pretty dull place with nothing to play for on either side..
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David E,
I was also blindsided with a different issue and was not able to work it out and basically just
gave up and went home.
BUT I am so happy to hear that you are at this point and it looks as though the two of you
will work it out. Have a Merry Christmas and as you see everyone is quite happy with the
good news. CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!
Ted
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'glad to read this, even if late.
Is all still well?
We should all make an effort to check in more often (like Willy) even if things are going great.