China Romance
All About China => Your trip to China => Topic started by: mpo on July 23, 2009, 11:36:51 pm
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Mike, good luck, I hope this trip and Jessica turn out to be every thing and the person you want them to be.
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Mike,
You must be really antsy. Hope everything goes well for you as you are dreaming and you´ll have a nice trip no matter what happens.
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Wow Mike, you are sure rearing to go starting your trip post so early!
Best of luck, i'll be coming back the same day you leave so will be reading your posts with interest as China memories will be still flowing around my head!
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Wow Mike, you are sure rearing to go starting your trip post so early!
Best of luck, i'll be coming back the same day you leave so will be reading your posts with interest as China memories will be still flowing around my head!
I never felt like I would need a backup plan ..... but .... with all of the sudden complications, I am thinking I should prepare one.....
and if I do use one it will shift all of my thinking on this entire process.
Mike
Mike , you know .. sometimes I very much dislike the word " BUT " . You are coming on too strong to Jessica , even we both know you mean it well . " BUT " it is something that she feels is " HER " problem to go to Japan and register her Daughter . It's unfortunally that it just happen's to be at your Trip date , but If I was you , go to Qingdao and wait for her return . It does come across , that you don't trust her . If I see it as such , so will she . This is not the end of the world , and please do keep your Mind on Jessica only , not on a back-up Woman as well . Well that's my thought , for what it's worth .
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Arnold keep having thoose kind of thoughts.Mike I'm going to have to agree with Arnold on this.You are thinking like a westerner.Where something like this is excepted.It is not excepted or expected in China.
Mike I do not mean any disrespect to you.Ths is how your lady sees it.You are not her husband you are not a close member of her family.Or a close friend.So you have no right to do this.If she would of asked you to meet her in Japan it would of ben different.
If somebody Like Ed or Martin or Arnold or Peter had suggested this to there wives it would of ben a good Idea.Because they are married to there wives.And since you have not really met Jessica in person and you are not her husband.You have no right. there is certain rules and edicate that you do not break in China.I'm sorry you broke a big one brother.
I know how it happend and I would of probably done it the same way you did.When I was fairly new at this.I've ben at this for over 3 years now so it is something you learn along the way.And my wife is very understanding and Patient when I commit a seriose blunder like this.
all the members need to pay attention here.If you are unsure of the situation or the custom post it here.Do not just go and do what you think is right.We in the west think nothin of Mikes little offer of help.And the help would of ben greatly excepted.But this is not always the case in China.
Rule #1 different country different customs
Mike send Jessica a letter.Tell her that you are sorry that you didn't know Chinese cutoms.Tell her you will meet her when she gets back from Japan.
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Rule #1 different country different customs
I thought rule number# 1 was the 24 hour rule.
But yes another wise gem from you Maxx. I guess wisdom comes with age. Maybe your not the oldest here on these forms - but I guess you have been married the longest to your girl so that we can call you the wise, old man :icon_biggrin:
I hope it goes well for you Mike. I remember wanting to go see my girl in September for her birthday. I admit it was more because I wanted to confirm she was real, but I coached the questions as a romantic gesture to share her birthday with friends. My divorce was still not finalized. She replied that she would accept my trip but would feel uncomfortable introducing me to her friends. She wished for my divorce papers to be finalized. I bowed to her desire and did not go. By mid November I had yet to get the final notice from the judge. Not having a fixed date on when I could travel was eating at me. I would tell her my afternoon dread of coming home from work and seeing an empty mailbox. Sometimes no news is bad news. It was her who suggested that we had waited enough. We had planned as best as we could and sometimes action was needed. So she invited me to come in December and we planned on a second trip for once I had my divorce documents. I booked my trip and by the end of November I finally recieved the divorce decree. Only thing here in Canada, the divorce become offical after 31 days from the decree date.
The good part is for my first trip I knew I could not get married so the pressure for a rush decision was off, but I left for my trip knowing I was a free man. Sometimes patience is rewarded, so I hope my little story helps you. I understand your desire in seeing her as soon as possible - but like the wise man Maxx has said - different country different culture.
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Mike,
One more thing to consider, why not to go to Japan for any length of time! .... It's dammed EXPENSIVE there mate. It would bite a big chunk out of your funds you set aside for your China trip.... and i do mean BIG!! haha!!
David.....
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Congrats on the Visa Mike. Same as I got. The security guard told me there was no way I would get more than a single entry Visa because it was my first time to China but I managed to convince the beautiful boss lady that I needed a dual entry since I live 8 hours from the nearest Visa office and I would definitely be returning.
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Congrats on your upcoming trip Mike and too bad about not meeting the daughter, but all good things in time yes?.
You know these kinds of things bring a thought to my head it may be a dumb thought but her it is....
It seems we all including the ladies devote so much of our time and energy into building these relationships and trying to work out issues and plan for possible setbacks, that perhaps we get a little lost in the process. Yes we think as westerners and based on our culture and beliefs and they think as easterners and based on their culture and beliefs, and sometimes its hard to mesh everthing together.
It almost seems that reading these wonderfull threads that perhaps we are getting lost in a love story, then the time for the trip comes and wham!! reality sinks in. Perhaps from our side all the carefull planning the advice from here etc suddenly goes out the window when we get this close and reality kicks in that this is no story that this is our future and hers we are dealing with. We want to try hard to take care of any last minite perceived problems before they escalate and maybe its the wrong thing to do. This of course applies to her side as well. Now suddenly the reality hits and a living breathing person is about to show up in her life and perhaps this scares them as well. Well anyway it may be a dumb thought as I said but it popped into my head when I read this thread so there it is.
I guess as always we must follow our hearts and our heads, our desires and also hers and hope and pray we can figure out how to make it work for both parties. We I think are lucky in that we have the entire brotherhood behind us and all of us either going through or have gone through exactly the same thing so we have a great support network here. The ladies on the other hand have their family and friends to support them but perhaps they dont get the same support because they may not have anyone in the same situation to help them through this.
It makes sense that as the time comes closer doubts and insecurites and the " oh man am I doing the right thing" should pop into both heads. I guess all we can do is trust in what you have built and on your agreed plan and follow through. For the religious guys you also have the benefit of faith to help you through so trust in your beliefs also.
Well I hope this makes sense coming from a dyed in the wool romantic hehe,
Regards to all
Brian Mc
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Well your on your way after all this time.
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Brian,
It almost seems that reading these wonderful threads that perhaps we are getting lost in a love story, then the time for the trip comes and wham!! reality sinks in. Perhaps from our side all the careful planning the advice from here etc suddenly goes out the window when we get this close and reality kicks in that this is no story that this is our future and hers we are dealing with.
What you have said here is very true and very significant. Getting lost in love, in part, was also the point i was trying to get over in our postings. At some point, Reality always kicks in, which is one of the reasons why we should never let our hearts rule the mind, until the heart is on safer, more firmer ground. Then you can let it go into overdrive!!...haha!!
David....
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Well done on your visa mate....Sooo pleased for you, don't worry about getting a letter from Jessica, that WILL COME, of that I am sure....:icon_biggrin:
Good things come to those who wait...:angel:
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Alright Rev. Mike. Have a great time and no worries brother. I think the trip is as fun as we make it. Xu Le and I could not even communicate but I thought it was a blast figuring out what she was saying. Most of the time i could tell in her face what she was trying to say. So I would say wait for her return and plan a romantic gesture as you wait and suprise her.
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See Mike , the Man with patience will be rewarded . I can see you smiling form here . I'm happy for you , it turn out as planned the first time . Somebody is alway's making the best of things , even if we don't believe it .:angel:
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Hey you 2 guys, wait for me.....lol
I am so envious Mike and Robert...lol Have a blast guys
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Have a pleasent trip guys,and Mike, I hope your girl's tree hugging practice will produce sweet fruit :icon_cheesygrin: I am such a sap for tree jokes.
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Rhonald , you've been playing that Pipa too long . Hahahaha
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She Pines for you Mike....oh my god, another tree joke. Yes I have fond memories of that last week before my first long journey. The letters become so sweet and endearing. Enjoy the suspense Mike. I bet you are even more so checking her pictures and rereading her letters now. Its just like the feelings we had when we were teenagers.
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Rhonald do you practice the tree jokes or do they just 'grow'?....lol
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My darling, I read your letter and I close my eyes to imagine the moment I will meet you at the airport, it is so wonderful so beautiful! Sometimes I cannot believe it will happen! But it is true and soon! I love you, Mike, I read your letter again and again and make sure again and again that you are coming to me! I love you! Thanks so much for loving me, my darling sunshine, thanks so much for showing your love to me!
I think she is excited about my trip !!!
so will she hug me ........ yeah, I think she will, and then some !!!
:icon_cheesygrin:
Sorry Mike I do not call that excited.
I call that ECSTATIC!!!!. Just how are you going to maintain those Christian values and face the temptation that this lovely lady is going to present you with.
But you know WHO will guide you through this period and that what is ordained will happen.
Willy
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Willy LOL I will be guiding him through this 'difficult' period...hehehe by email....lol
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I'd like to see the faces and hear the comments made when Mike and his woman get together? Would it be like...Oh God, Oh God and the neighbors saying that's those crazy christians?
By the way? what does a chinese woman scream out?
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Mike...I am very happy to know your trip is almost upon you. I wish you all the best on your trip, and on your future adventures in China, and beyond.
I look forward to reading your trip posts.
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I will be praising God for all I am worth, as I experience the Joy, and the Love, and the Passion of what he as done in my life.... by leading me to this beautiful lady ..... for the prayers he has answered, and the awesome blessings he has given and we have received!
God is Glorious and He makes Everything Glorious!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZJ6HOYhngA
I am with you on this Mike. He has done the same for me.
But as Vince said they are not very romantic in public, except for holding hands.
But when those Chinese kisses start. Well sadly I fail on every occasion, (that is in spirit not in the bedroom lads) But I pray that He will look kindly on me as he lead me to where I am today.
Willy
Maybe should be posting this under 'Religion' thread
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Maybe should be posting this under 'Religion' thread
No Willy
..... this is my thread I started for my trip, I will not push any posts off of it.... I even invite people to post good thoughts, or even prayers if they like ... which would be very encouraging for me, and my lady as well.
:)
Good thoughts you say?
Well for sure Mike I can pass those along to you. It is indeed nice to hear when one of us gets set to go and meet that most wonderfull lady. Just remember you are not an Irishman, and so are expected to post daily here so we may follow your progress. Yes we all wish to know everything that happens, except of course any truely personal stuff hehe. However please try to share the rest of the experience, and of course congratulations to the both of you, I am sure you will have along and happy life under her care.
Regards to you and your lady,
Brian
PS dont forget about the 24 hr rule just in case.
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"Just remember you are not an Irishman..."
Mike, maybe Jessica will keep you tied up, like what has been happening to Ronan...lol:angel:
"Yes we all wish to know everything that happens, except of course any truely personal stuff "
Nah mate don't listen to Brian, we want details....lol:angel::blush::icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin:
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Mike,
How far is Qingdao from Zhuhai?
Just asking out of concern for my safety because there is certainly going to be an earth tremor when you two meet at last.
Willy
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Mike,
Here is wishing the best for you and Jessica. As I have seen many things written as far as expectations and reality let me pass on one piece of advice I know you've heard before but I think is applicable here. The saying goes, "Blessed are the flexible for they shall bend and not break."
What ever happens don't get caught up in your expectations so much that you miss what is really happening. If you do not get to do everything you want to do or say or experience remember this is your first trip, not your last. You and Jessica will have more occasions in the future to take in the beauty and history of China. Bend with the flow and your experienced will be much greater than you anticipated.
God's Blessings,
Shaun.
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Vince/Mike,
Best ask the other married guys on here!! .... Me, ...i'm keeping stoomb, haha!!
David....
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Of course Mike you will not know the answer until after you are married!!!
I will not elaborate what one particular person shouts but I do know that last weekend I was woken in the early hours to be told ' I really, really love you'.
So now our intended trip to Shenzhen for the weekend is off and now it has been replaced by a 9 day trip to her homelands where it looks like I am going to be introduced to both her natural and adoptive families.
So unlike most of you I have not one but two complete families to face next week.:-/
Willy
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But it is an extended family Willy...lol good luck mate:angel:
Mike good luck on your (our) trip mate, hope you have a blast....:icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin:
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right now I do not know what Chinese woman scream out ???? that is as much of a mystery for me as it is for you ....
Just ask Ed...I am sure he will be more than happy to tell you.
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The very thing that Qing is Screaming Out at this moment is --- Wo xiang he ni zai yi qi !!!!
Can I blame her for that ? A handsome Guy like me ? :icon_cheesygrin:
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I like everything where it is and not in a pickle jar so I'm sayin nutin, I don' know nutin.
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Thanks Mike, yeah brother, I like it just where it is thank you.
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Mike,
Well what can anyone say to you!!.... Just to wish you ''All The Best On Your Up-Coming trip'' And hope everything goes to plan for you.!! Best Of Luck to You!!
David.....
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Very happy that at long last, you finally are going on your trip. All the best Reverend Mike...we are all here rooting for you.
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My thought's are with you Mike . Have a great Trip and the best time of your Life . ( If you can ) :icon_cheesygrin:
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Be sure to drink QingDao's hometown beer (the best beer in China IMO) TsingTao (http://www.tsingtaobeer.com/heritage_puredraft.php) (pronounced the same as the city), when asked what beer you want, while you are there! It tastes much better in China compared to what they export to America!
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Mike,
sorry I missed you before you left.
Have a safe and wonderful trip, hope all works out the way you want, Good luck and best wishes :icon_biggrin:
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Mike you bugger you forgot to put me in your case:huh::@:@
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Mike you bugger you forgot to put me in your case:huh::@:@
Mike was afraid you would bring the video camera with you. :icon_cheesygrin:
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but do remember that the Chinese culture does not get into much hugging and especially kissing in public, so as much as she might indicate it, there could be some shyness you see at first...don't be bothered by that at all, because it will melt away in short notice, just be patient if you don't get the huge hug (or more) you might expect at first...I'm sure it will come, Chinese ladies make good on their promises, that's for sure!
Scott, I hope you're right about that. I am off to Zhuhai in three weeks. In my last letter my dear lady, said that she has sore knees at the moment and she asked whether I am a good masseur. I nearly choked on my musile when I read that. The thought of my hands anywhere at all near her knees makes me fall to pieces *laughs*
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Danny NOW i am really pleased for you and wondered if you have a masseur licence? however, a thought crossed my mind How did she get sore knees???:angel: LOL
Shaun 'he' knew about the camera:blush:
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Rob, I wondered about that myself. Maybe if she was a religious girl, it might have been from praying. But since she's not, I think better not to ask about it *laughs*
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Mike nice to hear you made it.Good job.Keep the posts comming.
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Very pleased mate...Have fun:icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin:
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It looks like Irish eyes are smiling.... Enjoy
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Mike , great to see it work out well , to start your second stage of the relationship with Jessica .
Scott , does make good point's to follow on this part of the relationship , that can either make it or break it .
Heck , I know you can handle it ... just well on your own .:icon_cheesygrin:
Thanks for the lovely Photo , all your Hour's of writing are being rewarded . Beautiful Lady and a happy one ... it show's !
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Mike,
I see from the photo, you also had a short back and sides at the barbers before you left. Don't do that again, wait till you get there and have your hair cut in China. There far better hairdressers (barbers) than in the Western countries, .....and a dammed sight less expensive too!!
Apart from that, the photo shows your both enjoying your time together, and you can't ask for more than that!! ...Right ? haha!!
Enjoy your trip and enjoy your time with Jessica...
David....
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Mike its great to see all has worked out so far, now be careful, and listen to the advice all the other guys are giving and above all else, have fun.
Did you guys see that smile on Mikes face?, and hers for that matter, thay look like a couple of school kids out on thier first date. :icon_cheesygrin:
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Mike, Glad to see you made it safely to China. WOW, you both look very good together, you both seem very happy with each other, that is really good news and a great start to a happy and hopefully long term relationship, marriage????:icon_biggrin: Ya I know, perhaps I am jumping the gun here with the marriage part, but hay, who knows right, it just might happen. Have yourself a great time in China and please keep us updated as often as possible, thanks for sharing the picture.
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Mike I am so pleased mate...
Well that was something I could have been doing without hearing lol :huh: (only joking mate):icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin::angel:
If you can, can you try and get a picture of YUKI for me please, so I will know who to go after if Keren doesn't know me...lol
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Yuki is our translator mate....:huh:
I let Keren know that you had arrived and that I saw you and Jessica in a picture...:icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin:
Got something to tell you but will Pm you later, hehe it's ok nothing important it can wait:icon_biggrin::angel:
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Mike, I am so glad for you. I hope this is the second strong step toward your future and happiness.
Shaun
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Mike ... Glad to see that you made it safe and that the initial time with Jessica went well. The closeness you two show in that photo is encouraging. Have a great and fun time with her.
Can you give us your blog address again ? Thanks ! :icon_biggrin:
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Mike, I am glad you made to China. Enjoy the taxi rides. You will never get so much adrenalin in such a short time, hehe. For me, those taxi rides were better then a rollercoaster.
I wish you all the best for Jessica and you. Enjoy your stay!
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Good luck Mike and I hope you get everything you want and want everything you get.
Jim
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Good luck Mike and I hope you get everything you want and want everything you get.
Jim
LOL Jim , hope he can handle it all ... of what's coming his way ?
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Greetings Mike,
Well first off congrats to you and your lady, really nice picture. I hope that its the start of a wonderful relationship. Also remember follow the advice and the 24 hr rule.
When in doubt ask the guys they can help, if you cant reach the guys remember be cool and try to stay calm regardless of what is happening. Easy to say hard to do I know but we are all pulling for you.
Good luck brother
Brian
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Good luck Mike and I hope you get everything you want and want everything you get.
Jim
LOL Jim , hope he can handle it all ... of what's coming his way ?
Oh yeah I think he will....:blush::angel::icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin:
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Mike, it seems to be par for the course that the emfs are "dressed up" somewhat. You seem to be getting on well with the real her now anyhow which is great, so happy to hear things are going well.
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Mike , dont' go to the Agency and blow this up more then need be . You and Jessica are getting along well so far , don't jeapardize what you have now Face to Face . Remember some of the things ( important ones to you ) yes ... but don't go and make them into something bigger and embarrass Jessica in front of the Agency employee's .
Remember , face to face it's the 2.4 hour Rule .
About jessica's Wet-suit , it was the Sun thing ... right ? As Water reflex's the Sunlight , it is worse near Water to get burned . I'm white and I been through this too many times . Having Fun , only to regred it later .
Keep enjoying yourself ..... Enjoy ????
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Mike,
This just goes to show, how important it is to form other methods of communcation between you. Apart from anything else, it will drastically cut down on the translators falsifying, EMF/email replies to the guys.
Seems you have a lot of catching up to do mike, as well as sorting this out between you. But it does seem as your going through things in methodical manner to get where you want to be.
That wedding your going too, i bet that guy will be pleased to see another white face there...hahaha!!
What's the betting he'll keep coming over to talk to you throughout the day?? haha!!
Seems your both getting on well together, which is good news .... you never know, ...you could just be going back to the States an engaged man!! ...hahaha!!
David....
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Happy to hear things mate:icon_cheesygrin: You know my feelings through PM...lol
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Mike,
I have a suggestion for you. Rather than confronting the agency because they were doing what you thought they might do. It seems to me that your efforts would be better served to spend your time setting up a computer or some other form of communication with her that takes the agency out of the loop completely as far as future communication. I do not think in your case that any point would be served to rub their noses in it so to speak though all of would like to do that.
Since you and Jessica are doing so well spend the time with her and tell her she is more important than any agency. What ever issues there might be can be resolved in the future AND through communication that is not through EMF. I am sure you would like to put a chink in the agency's armor but realistically you will not change them overnight and quite frankly at this point your investment should be in your future called Jessica.
As was once said in a Star Trek episode, "We are the collective, you will assimilate or die." The agencies will need to change and as a collective group of men we have a better chance of seeing great changes rather from one individual in China for a short period of time. Together we can change how they look and deal with us.
Forget them and invest in her while you are there.
Mike food for thought,
Shaun
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blow things up ????? do not worry that is NOT my style, you are confusing me with another Mike perhaps?
the EMF stuff, I am NOT worried about, I knew it was a problem from early on, and was not a big surprise when I hit it.... I just hoped it was not going to hit .... but it did ... now I will work past it ... and find a way to avoid it in the future.
What a witty remark - you had me barking in humor. Also I have to appologise to you. Your handling of the situation has made me aware that you are indeed a very level headed individual. You do the brotherhood proud - enjoy your trip.
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God's Blessings, Mike
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she asked me if I wanted more children ,,,,,,,, ???????
this was a clear indication, in letters I was very clear that I was not able to father anymore children, that it was NOT possible.... I had an operation, and no WAY could I get anyone pregnant....
I was floored .... and the more questions and answers we went through, the more I realized she was not the author of most of the letters to me....
there were many inconsistancies .... finally I said to her .... how do you not know this, and who has been writing the letters to me..... which she did not answer....
:)
If you find that she did know and was told but for some reason didnt choose to accept it?, as my wife did, are you willing to take face from her over this? Is it that important to hold someone responsible?
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If you find that she did know and was told but for some reason didnt choose to accept it?, as my wife did, are you willing to take face from her over this? Is it that important to hold someone responsible?
[/quote]
Ed, I would like to ask you a serious question that rises in my mind as a result of your words here.
I have read much about, and think I understand the importance of "face" in the Chinese psyche. Yet we in the western world place equally as much importance on "trust", integrity", "honesty". Is this not a 2-way street.??...do we always have to be mindful about them losing face, whilst at the same time ignoring our own internal needs for those things that we find important....seems to me like there is no middle ground...saving her face is the only game in town ??
It is just possible (and I dont say it is..please note) that MPO's Lady told him a whopping big lie..and he needs to ensure she saves face when she gets found out !!!
Bit of a worry for me :huh:
DavidE
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I keep seeing things about Face and the importance of Face on the various threads of this Forum.
Your taking this Face thing far too seriously, in fact some are taking it to the extreme. Face in China basically revolves around the men, the women have very little Face to keep up or sustain, compared to the men, what she does have, are relatively basic...
I once asked Lucy about ''her Face'' and asked her to tell me the things that would cause her to lose it in front of me or anyone else. On hearing the things she was telling me , it was more than obvious that they were exactly the same as any decent women would expect anywhere in the western world. So if you have half decent manners, if your personality is not a floored one (anger management issues etc) and a generally all round good sort of person. You have no need to worry about causing loss of Face to your lady, or any other lady in China.... Men on the other hand are a completly different ball game!!
I personally have never given the Face thing more than a second thought within our 3 year relationship. I know for argument's sake when I've unwittingly upset her, but i can normally pull those times back with my sense of humour, and can make a joke about myself. But i think if you treat your lady with respect and honesty, with generally good manners, .... not forgetting a love that she can both see and feel, your not going to be worrying too much about any Face loss thing....
David....
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Good for you Mike , I am happy to read that you and Jessica are also moving forward , we have to balance out the singles and pre / e on the other thread .:icon_biggrin:
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David you wrote;
I know for argument's sake when I've unwittingly upset her, but i can normally pull those times back with my sense of humour, and can make a joke about myself. But i think if you treat your lady with respect and honesty, with generally good manners, .... not forgetting a love that she can both see and feel, your not going to be worrying too much about any Face loss thing....
This is exactly the way I feel, RESPECT, HONESTY, GOOD MANNERS, TRUTHFULNESS and LOVE are the things I believe 'IS'...FACE:blush:
To have a sense of humour is also important, I think...:icon_cheesygrin::angel:
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Ed,
I am not looking to take face from her or anyone else .... but I was faced with a very direct question from Jessica "Can we have a baby together?" and I had to answer her..... so I very gently and carefully gave her a honest and true answer .... not possible, and here is why it is not possible .... and she understood
I saw all of the other things as glitches in our past communication, to the point of thinking something is broken .... after enough time of discussion, it was not as bad as I first thought ... no one got upset, no one lost face ...
My wife asked, after two weeks of being married and doing all those married things, if she should be worried about getting pregnant. I was surprised since it was even in my chnlove.com profile that I wasnt capable of having children anymore and even in our EMF's that I had the vasectomy. I found a vasectomy page in chinese and my wife read it for half an hour and finally understood it. Another brother I know got a similar question about this and he too had told her in his EMF's that he was snipped too. I dont know why it is but they sometimes seem to not want to listen to some things unless you focus on it in a discussion. This is just one example since in another thread i pointed out my wife is quite hard headed and sometimes its not so easy to get her to accept some things or listen to what is said. I realize it's her personality of course but by the sound of it it's not all that unique to my wife only.
Just food for thought....
David, my refernce to face is about going somewhere with her in tow and creating a scene causing her to be publically humiliated for her husbands bad conduct. I've met too many people who find it acceptable to make a public scene over something that could be handled in a far more controlled manner. When I see someone write or hear them speak of an injustice and how they want to set things straight I get worried since my ex had no problem letting the world see her air the dirty laundry and I've had to deal with countless public humiliations and it sucks badly. I just get worried about this sometimes when I get the sense that it could be heading that way.
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Ed,
Probably, what they write and what they actually do, are two completly differen't things Ed. Sometimes it's just like letting off a bit of steam, when writing on the Forum, Like MM did with the scam mail he recieved.
I don't think there's many that would knowingly Embarass there wife in public, for no real good reason, Chinese or otherwise. Anyway, If she thinks your going OTT she will tell you, ...don't worry about that haha!!
Now, think of another senerio, like your wife getting heated , maybe over the quality or cost of something she wants to buy. She would not give Face a second thought in such circumstances, because she will know that she is right and will fight (verbaly) for herself. I know , been there too many times!! ...hahaha!!, But then i just watch and think ....this and she, ...is really funny!! Don't worry about this Face thing too much, it's been blown up on here way out of preportion.
David...
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Getting back to this original post guy's!!!
Let's see, Mike asked Jessica to 'marry him' she must have agreed, because they are 'now' engaged...Right???:dodgy::dodgy:
Just out of curiosity, I wonder 'why' we have'nt heard from mike in a while???:icon_cheesygrin: No, no, guy's I was just asking, I'm worried about him, do you think he may be busy???:angel:
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Mike, now I know you don't believe but we must keep an open mind, not every one beleives what we do, so even though you don't beleive, she does, just go along withit, whats it hurt.
Hope your having a great time mike and CONGRATS to you and Jessica
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Have your self a cup or 3 mate ...you deserve it...:icon_cheesygrin:
He he it must have been scary for you at first hehe. I never used to believe in them mate, but the last 2 I have spoken with, have come out with things that happened to me or did happen like they said...so I am a bit skepticle...:s
Was at the hospital today, the op looks like it's not working, gotta go back in 6 weeks for further investigation:@
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Well the smile on your face helped you. She saw the smile and told her something like you have a great future together. If you were frowning she would have said the opposite.
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Sorry to hear that Rob. But for Mike and Jessica Woo Hoo!!!! Congratz. I am really happy for the both of you. Mike you might want to step down a cloud or 2.
David E (This is your warning to not read below. Move on mate!!)
The Fortune Teller thing, sit back on it for now. Once you've settled and are married and living together the two of you can take more time to discuss the issue. She already know how you feel so leave it at that for now. Once she grows in her relationship with God and the time is right you can discuss the issue. Who knows God may deal with her before you can talk with her about it.
Shaun
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Sorry to hear that Rob. But for Mike and Jessica Woo Hoo!!!! Congratz. I am really happy for the both of you. Mike you might want to step down a cloud or 2.
David E (This is your warning to not read below. Move on mate!!)
Shaun
Hahaha....dont worry, I read it !!
See the signature footnote below :icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin:
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Sorry to hear that Rob. But for Mike and Jessica Woo Hoo!!!! Congratz. I am really happy for the both of you. Mike you might want to step down a cloud or 2.
David E (This is your warning to not read below. Move on mate!!)
Shaun
Hahaha....dont worry, I read it !!
See the signature footnote below :icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin:
David your a good guy. You can take a joke and keep on ticking. I'm enjoying getting to know you.
Shaun
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Sorry to hear that Rob. But for Mike and Jessica Woo Hoo!!!! Congratz. I am really happy for the both of you. Mike you might want to step down a cloud or 2.
David E (This is your warning to not read below. Move on mate!!)
Shaun
Hahaha....dont worry, I read it !!
See the signature footnote below :icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin:
David your a good guy. You can take a joke and keep on ticking. I'm enjoying getting to know you.
Shaun
Thank you for your kind words Sir :)....we have a saying in Aus..."If you hide in the grass long enough...you can get anybody you want"...
Cheers..DavidE
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Mike watch out Jessica doesn't see your affair with....COFFEE...lol:icon_cheesygrin::angel:
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NO COFFEE!!!!!! $30.00US???? That's it I'm not going!!!! :icon_cheesygrin:
I know, I'll sell it to myself on eBay and ship it before I leave and when I get there I'll say, "Will you look here, I am already getting mail." :icon_cool:
Shaun
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Mike sounds like she was picking a "lucky date" for your wedding. Indeed this is done consulting astrology charts etc often-times and is taken very seriously by many there.
Don't fight it is my advice, its harmless and if it makes her happy then would go with the flow.
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Mike,
Years ago I gave up cigarettes, then beer, I gave up rock n roll for a while, I gave up late night partying, cussing, I even gave up sex after my wife left, bot coffee? I don't know about that. Other than my computer and my affinity for fishing and skiing I can't give up coffee. :icon_cheesygrin:
I would have to take something back to balance the scale.
Shaun
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Ppppssttt Shaun, Mike, coffee here, I have coffee....lol very cheap:icon_cheesygrin: (copyright from one of Vince's posts):blush:
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Mike,
Years ago I gave up cigarettes, then beer, I gave up rock n roll for a while, I gave up late night partying, cussing, I even gave up sex after my wife left, bot coffee? I don't know about that. Other than my computer and my affinity for fishing and skiing I can't give up coffee. :icon_cheesygrin:
I would have to take something back to balance the scale.
Shaun
So its pointless you looking for every man's dream...........
A 30 year old blonde, blue eyed nymphomaniac who's rich father owns a brewery, a cigarette factory and a private yacht and manages a Pop Group !!!!!
DavidE
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Mike,
Years ago I gave up cigarettes, then beer, I gave up rock n roll for a while, I gave up late night partying, cussing, I even gave up sex after my wife left, bot coffee? I don't know about that. Other than my computer and my affinity for fishing and skiing I can't give up coffee. :icon_cheesygrin:
I would have to take something back to balance the scale.
Shaun
So its pointless you looking for every man's dream...........
A 30 year old blonde, blue eyed nymphomaniac who's rich father owns a brewery, a cigarette factory and a private yacht and manages a Pop Group !!!!!
DavidE
Funny this should come up here ..... as a matter of fact I turned one of those away just before my trip
not worth the headache !!! LOL
Mike
Please, please, please give me her address !!!!!!
So happy to hear all goes so well for you and your "Lovely"........keep up the good work :):)
DavidE
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Mike,
Years ago I gave up cigarettes, then beer, I gave up rock n roll for a while, I gave up late night partying, cussing, I even gave up sex after my wife left, bot coffee? I don't know about that. Other than my computer and my affinity for fishing and skiing I can't give up coffee. :icon_cheesygrin:
I would have to take something back to balance the scale.
Shaun
So its pointless you looking for every man's dream...........
A 30 year old blonde, blue eyed nymphomaniac who's rich father owns a brewery, a cigarette factory and a private yacht and manages a Pop Group !!!!!
DavidE
If I were to find her I would more than likely not be her type. Besides, who would want that when they can find a good Chinese woman.
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Shaun,
dont forget to open a paypal account so when you pay for the coffee
you can get the money that you paid for it. cant cash a money order
in china hahahahaha
Ted
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Mike--- i hope everything works out for you with mom.
my thoughts and prayers are with you on this
my soon to be mom in china was a little hesitant
at first also but she has come around and now she
tells Sisi that when i get to china to live and she
says WE need to get your husband to eat better so
he loses weight and is able to care for you for many
years to come. she wants me to be healthy for her
daughter. i welcome that very much. she sees that
her daughter is happy and that is what is important
health and happiness. and yes i saw the corn at
mcdonalds when i was there and was taken aback
by that and thought maybe i should have skipped a
fries over the years. hahahaha
best wishes and let us kbow how it went
Ted
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Heads up Mike...I am sure the whole brotherhood is praying for you...
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Mike did you bring a gift for your ladies mother? If not you will need to find something.Big smile goes a long way in China.Just be yourself.Her mother will know that you came all the way to China.Just to meet her daughter.That shows Jessica big face.And that is a step in the right direction.
good luck
Maxx
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Mike,
Additionally to what Maxx has written. ...Her mum will see the happiness in Jessica's face and in her general demina, and that's what mum will want for Jessica ...to be ''Happy'' She'll obviously be sad at the thought of her moving so far away from her family in China, but knowing she has found a good man that she will be happy with, will outweigh her sadness. Try to assure her that Jessica will still come to visit the family as often as it is possible.
Don't show that your nervous, show a her you are a confident, but a respectful guy, which i think you are anyway, then just swim with the flow...
It's Jessica, ...that is going to be your trump card Mike, both at the meeting, and every time she sees her mum. It's going to be that BIG SMILE across her face that tells mum she's doing the right thing and that your a ''Good Man'' .....So, ...One more thing to cross of your list ...hahaha!!
David....
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Congrats mate. I told you it would work out, seems like you got the thumbs up from Mother!!!...Well done
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Mike,
See told you, She's happy that, Jessicas happy!!!
So, that's another thing crossed of your long list of things to do, and sort out. ..Bravo!!
David....
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We told you, it would work out with Mama, just relax and see whats next, hahaha, Jessica has your stay planed out to the day.
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Mike,
I am excited for you. Contratz!
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Great MIke , Jessica's MOM showed you her GOOD side . Now do take care of Jessica very well or she will show you the OTHER side . :angel:
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Mike,
Congratulations on your successes.
You have been doing great from what your stories relate. Also, you have continuously asked Jessica's opinion...Thumbs up on that! I am sure that is a change for her and a welcome one.
Good luck on your continuing adventure.
Doug
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Congrats Mike.
Sure looks liek you have it figured out, well at least as much as Jessica will let you hehe. That part about Mom was real touching and I am not even religious. Just goes to show how things can go teh way they should with a little help from upstairs.
Hope everything keeps going wellbut still you need a couple disagreements just to get to work them out together, make things stronger, and of course make up afterwords..... with a nice cup of tea.
Anyway keep up the great work and the great story. I will try to do the same when I go next Saturday.
Regards,
Brian
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Ah Mike. That story about the bible gift from Mom brought tears to my eyes, no lie. I'm so happy for you man.
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Great news.. you passed the needle eye
Congratulation Mike
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So guys keep in mind on your trips everything you think you KNOW as TRUE .... might get turned upside down, and you have to adjust, and not flip out, you have to accept and deal with what is going on right in front of you....
Amen :icon_biggrin:
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If I am reading Vince's reply correctly mate, I think you've done your homework, the groundwork, and LEARNED from when you first started this journey...:icon_biggrin:
And again 'Thanks' for the heads up!!!!
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Hey Mike, I am happy for you. Looks like everything is going very well.
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Looks like you had a very nice Sunday . Church and Beer Tent's ! Hahaha
You are almost German there . That sure sounds like the Octoberfest in August .
So far the first week worked out good for you Mike . Keep it going , enjoying your daily update's .
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Greetings Bothers,
Mike an excellent story, and such nice things to happen too. Sharon likes you also, a great plus there to be sure.
Continue to have a great time and know that we are all behind you 100%
Best of luck Mike.
Brian
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Glad to hear your having a nice time, and also glad to hear that 'Sharon' gets on with you too mate...A great start.,..:icon_biggrin:
You, Robert Snellgrove and I are probably going to be called the '3 Amigo's or 3 Muskateer's' because we are going to be in the same city withing a month or so of each other... lol
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August 23,,,Sunday evening.
Hey guys just a quick note to let you know I made it to China, and I am at the hotel in Qingdao. Jessica met me at the airport as planned, I gave her a quick hug, abd then the translator said ok, lets go, and we walked to the car... Jessica did grab hold of my hand, and she was glued to me for the rest of the day... and we went out for lunch, with the owners of the agency here. It was great!
I have to tell you, Jessica is way more beautiful in person then any picture I have ever seen of he, how that happens I dunno, but I can live with it :)
and the way she was doing things for me during lunch, I am not used to that kind of attention, and I know it meant she really liked me very much. WOW. it really makes an impact on you. let me tell you.
my flight was on friday, and I shifted my sleep pattern by waking up at 6 on Tues, 5 on Wed, and 4 on Thurs, and on friday morning I got up at 3. On friday I flew from Rochester to Chicago, and then Chicago to Japan, a total of 13.5 hours. I got to Japan and got to my room, and slept from 7 PM to midnight, and then slept again from 3 AM to 5 AM local time. When I got to China I was in decent shape and spent the entire day with Jessica.
She went home at the end of the night, as her daughter is home. Not in Japan as I thought, Jessica and her daughter went to Japan, to start the process, and they both returned home. So Jessica has to still be caring for her daughter, and I will get to met the daughter also.
Tomorrow she will come meet me back at the hotel in the morning for breakfast.
we went shopping after lunch, and Jessica got a translator that works well, and then we had some private time alone..... not much to tell you there except now I know exactly what the deal is with the Chinese Kissing.... :)
I got one picture to share, let me see if I can post it....
I am very glad to be here..... talk to you all later
Mike
Nice photograph.
Fred
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Yes Mike, are you going to post anymore Photo's of you and Jessica, the ''love Couple'' ??
I'm sure like myself, everyone here ...would want to see these two faces with grins from ear to ear, in your next posts....
David....
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Mike ,
I am happy all is working out well.
best wishes for your future together
Ted
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Mike ,
I am happy all is working out well.
best wishes for your future together
Ted
Hi Ted
I see on the top of your postings your standing in front of your burial box. Thats going to cost you extra in baggage to take it with you.
Willy
PS lets have some more happy married couples
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Mike ,
I am happy all is working out well.
best wishes for your future together
Ted
Hi Ted
I see on the top of your postings your standing in front of your burial box. Thats going to cost you extra in baggage to take it with you.
Willy
PS lets have some more happy married couples
tell me about it they said it was over the required dimensions so
i have to pay extra for that
Ted
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Hey guys ,,,,,
Wow you want more pictures ... well here is one from the beer festival ....
Keep in mind I was with Jessica, and daughter Sharon, and they were goofing a round a lot ..... LOL
Jessica looks great and so does Wonder women. But can you ask her to move over so we can see you and Jessica.
Seriously Mike (Willy serious!!! haha)
Really serious - you two look great and I look forward to the wedding.
Make this one for the success side.
Willy
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Hi Mike,
Great picture. I noticed the guy right behind you. What is he thinking as he is looking at you. So I found out.
Here it is, "Holy dumplings could this be American Batman? Yes, I believe it is American Batman. Where is Robin, aka Martin. Gee, hope they don't find my beer and dumpling stand. Don't need to worry about beer it is dumplings they are after. Robin eat all my dumplings then no one will want beer. All Batman does is sip sip sip on one beer all day long. Where is the masked avenger? Where is the joker? Oooo this makes me angry. Yes I know, I will speak to Batman and his beautiful woman and persuade them to keep Robin away from my dumplings.
Mike as in the famous words of Willy?
Mike, the pictures are great. Put more in when you have the time. It helps us to see some of what you are writing about, even the funny ones. It is encouragement for those of us who have not been there yet.
Shaun
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Mike, the pictures are great. Put more in when you have the time. It helps us to see some of what you are writing about, even the funny ones. It is encouragement for those of us who have not been there yet.
Shaun
Its encouraging for those ALREADY HERE and being passed on the marriage front on an almost daily basis.
Willy
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Mike , thanks for the close-up . Both of you look even better under the Microscope . This tops the size of my Photo's ! hahaha
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Mike,
I am truly sorry, I should have realized this because you said it previously in this thread. I didn't mean in any way to cast what was going on as a joke. You are taking this very seriously and you should. I will tell you the rest PM. Please accept my apology. I have really enjoyed your new adventure as I look forward to mine some day soon.
Shaun
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We are just having a great time with you Mike.
Willy
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Fantastic pics Mike, loving your posts here, latest pics seem to be grand no need for changing.
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Thank god for that, i was beginning to think you were one of these ''Control Freaks'' you hear about!! haha!!
David......
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No Mike, i didn't take you seriously. ...haha!! If i took all that you had written seriously, i'd of laid on some real flak for you. ...haha!! Seems others did, or in part anyway.......lol!!
David....
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Mike,
:huh::huh:
:icon_redface::icon_redface:
:s:s:
:icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin:
:icon_cool::icon_cool:
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Mike, your going to have to keep your eye on the boys there and at home with a daughter that pretty, good luck pal, my son seen this photo of Sharon and wanted to know who she was and if she had a boyfriend.
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Mike, your going to have to keep your eye on the boys there and at home with a daughter that pretty, good luck pal, my son seen this photo of Sharon and wanted to know who she was and if she had a boyfriend.
Hehe Michael, she soon will have, I'm going there remember:angel:...lol
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Rob have a better idea forget the Viagra, and just take a suitcase full of Centrum Silver, you will need all the enegy you can muster just to keep up with her..............lol
j/k guys
and probably a p[ortable oxygen bottle......lol
-
I think Rob has a back-up plan for that Norb . Hahaha
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Escargot in China ? Oh Man ... I love them if they are like in a French Restaurant ?
You are lucky Mike , that Jessica likes Pizza , McDonald's and most likely KFC too . Qing would never step into a fast food place of any kind . Not even a Ice Cream Store . Unless it's for her Son . I'm going to have to sneak it here and there or must do without it all together .
I'm so happy for you , how everything is working out so great for you . I think you are starting to plan your next Trip ... before your leaving on this one . :icon_cheesygrin:
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Mike, not doing a lot is actually just getting to know her better than on a sight seeing trip you can concentrate on each other. My wife and I always have a good time with me trying to pick up a word here and there. She is great at picking up English. Just keep your sense of humor about it and everything will be good. I wish for you what has happened for me.
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Nice to read things are so well Mike.
Have you tried popcorn in the park? If you see it, give it a try. You might get a surprise. hehe.
-
I havent been too crazy about the popcorn here. It is like they put something sweet in it.
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Must be Sugar , they do that in Germany ... instead of Salt . But nothing beat's Butter .
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Salt in popcorn is a nonsense!! ...whoever thought of putting salt in it should be Shot!!
Just has to be an American thing!!!.....
In UK and the best part of Western Europe popcorn is sweetened by various means , including butter, caramel, toffee, caster sugar, etc etc!! Popcorn is tasteless, ...so who the hell wants to eat salt?? Not only that, Salt isn't exactly too healthy for you either, especially eating the big tubs of popcorn that you tend to get in the States!!
David.....
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David, the trick is Salted Butter here in the states. Salt makes you thirsty so you buy a soda (at the movies) (which also has salt in it) so you keep on that merry go round. Other then that salt is not good for blood pressure.
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OK now David you are messing with Americans and we own everything... oops... :s I mean we owe everything. :icon_cheesygrin:
Salt may be bad but so is everything else you mentioned. Popcorn is not tasteless it does have a pleasant taste of it's own. Even the oil you pop it in adds flavor. The only thing I like to add is a very small amount of butter; the real stuff only. :icon_cool:
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I know why they put salt in the popcorn, they do the same thing with salted peanuts, and biscuits in the bars over here, which are a whole lot tastier than salted popcorn.....
But salt in popcorn tastes wicked, terrible even. I guess popcorn does have some sort of flavour, but at best you could only call it bland. And salt does the least for any flavouring in my mind!!
I liked the the candy coated stuff we used to get when we were kids at the Cinema's but haven't seen that around in the UK for years now.
David.....
-
Butter and salt in popcorn for me :P but the popcorn I had they put honey on instead of butter, so I ate scorpions instead.
-
We make our own popcorn here quite regularly, Yes we also use butter, but have also used various other things to flavour, both for savoury and sweet popcorn, .....but never ever SALT!!
David....
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Bravo. You're on the way.
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So Mike does this mean that your next trip will be going to Japan rather then returning to China, has to be a bit of a surprise I'll bet, or does she plan on you coming back to China and her meeting you there or have you discussed this yet
-
Mike , hope you like / love Sushi like I love Sushi . Guess on your next trip you be eating " Blowfish " . haha
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Mike, make the bold move, buy a ring and ask her to marry you. You should have seen the face on Nina when I asked her, so happy. You two look good together. You seem to have won over the most important person in your relationship - her mother. Good luck to you both.:icon_cool:
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I'm sorry Mike, I must have missed that post. /doh!
Oh! That's the day I proposed too. I was in country at the time so that would explain how I missed the post. Again, sorry.
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Mike , you and Jessica just take it easy . you do not need to rush into anything . So what if it takes two or three Trip to China to get finally married ? It will only help with Jessica's Visa process . I do get the feeling that one or two visit's are not enough for them Gov . people anymore . My Lawyer feels the same way , as he pushed to be with her for the Interview . Even though I was going anyway .
That will on;ly give you two more time to get everything in order for her move to the US . You having so much Fun and getting to feel so much closer to Jessica and her Family , you would want to go back and also get to see more of that great Country . You have everything going for you .
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Looks like you had a very nice Sunday . Church and Beer Tent's ! Hahaha
You are almost German there . That sure sounds like the Octoberfest in August .
So far the first week worked out good for you Mike . Keep it going , enjoying your daily update's .
WTH Mike, you could be an Episcopalian. Church and beer on the same day. We have a joke in our church: Whenever you get four Episcopalians together, you will always find a fifth! :)
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Mike,
I was reading the Shout-box tonight, and noticed you saying Jessica goes home by 9.30pm each evening. So what do you do with yourself each evening after she's left?? To be honest, i can't understand, why she has to leave you at, or by 9.30pm. Surely she can stay with you later than that, even if it's only on a few evenings?
You've come a bloody long way to be left on your own every night!!
David.....
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Actually, I was wondering the same thing as David5o.
I realize I am not the most experienced member, but I found when i was there, that the day did not end until midnight or sometimes a little later. 9:30 in the evening was considered early...usually just finishing supper around this time.
-
In China, a lady who stays out late ( i.e. 11 pm - midnight or beyond ) is viewed as a 'loose' lady by the elders/seniors. Having said that, my fiancee lives a 5 minute walk from my hotel so I walk her home for 10:59:59 pm just to beat the deadline ............. hehehe :icon_cool: In fact, her Mom will start calling after 11 pm to inquire about her whereabouts.
You especially have to watch out for those country bumpkins from Bancroft, Ontario, Canada.
Mike made a good personal point. Everybody has their own unique situation. As they know each other more, she'll stay longer as they become more a couple.
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Mike,
Are you saying, ...that you've been writing to an agency/translator for 14 months??
If that's the case, your taking all this very casually i must say, ...I'd be hopping mad myself, ...and totally gutted!!!!
But then how did she know you were coming to visit her, from her home in Japan?? She must have been involved in that deception surely? I just can't believe that you have been writing all this time, and had no idea whatsoever that she was living in Japan and not China...
I remember what now seems to be a farce, the episode about her going to enroll her daughter in school in Japan. Then finding that she was in China when you arrived!! Now she's telling you she doesn't want you visiting her in Japan, because she can't speak the language too well!!! How is she living there and can't speak the language?? Japan isn't exactly a cheap place to live Mike, and schooling costs are going to be expensive too.
I've read what you have posted above, it's not your fault that she doesnt know you well, if she had been honest with you and took the time to read and reply to your letters herself, ...she ''would'' know!! To be honest, it is you that needs to be able to trust her , rather than her being able to trust you. You have done your best to have been honest with her all the way through this 14 months!!! It's not your fault that your both a stranger to each other is it ?
The way i'm reading your post above, ....is that it's you, that's having to make all the allowances to Jessica, i think she needs to make a dammed site more allowances to you Mike. You must have spent a small fortune over all these months in EMF's (let alone the time emotion it took writing them) and now your trip to meet her, only to be told that those 14 months were at best a complete waste of your time and money, and that if you don't want to give her up you have to start all over again from scratch?? Hell, ...now it's her being afraid of you not having a job right now!! Not thanking you for coming to be with her, ''despite'' you not being employed right now....
God, i bet you have been doing a lot of thinking and soul searching over these past few days Mike, I don't think i would have been able to carry on myself. Just make sure that in your own mind, your doing the right thing. I know it's hard just giving up on 14 months of time and emotion, of your life, ....but just know where to draw the line, if any more surprises start suddenly appearing. ....I really feel for you right now!!
David....
Chong,
I know what your saying, and may be that was true in the past, But in the 8 years that i lived there, i have never come across a lady of my age group ever bringing that up or indeed adhering to that philosophy.
Let's face it, they are not young and single anymore, they are mature women and often divorced with grown-up children.... i think they have deserved the right to come and go as they please ....don't you ??
David....
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Mike you know something mate, we 'you and I', as you know have been PM'ing each other, however, I do agree somewhat with what David is saying... Yes you are starting over, and the trust will come back between you..eventually. But, with the deception that has taken place, can you be sure about her life in Japan?, have you her home phone number from Japan that you could call to see if anyone (e.g another male) answers??? While she is still there in China with you. This is just a thought because somewhere in your posts you mentioned that she did not want you to go to Japan?
I don't think there is anyone on here that would 'want' you to get hurt more than you have? Maybe it 'IS' a case for, 'being sure', surely it would be better knowing now, rather than a couple of weeks/months down the line... You mention mate that you only feel deception from the agency, that is not true buddy, she done a web cam with you, she 'SHOULD' have been more HONEST with you face to face.
Whatever you decide, I am sure that the WHOLE brotherhood is BEHIND YOU, so the comments that are coming in, is showing you we are all on your side..., and trying to look out for you... with our 'different' viewpoints and thoughts.
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Mike,
About the big bad colourful Wolfs, ...How many of these men spent 14 months writing Emfs to her?? I'll hazard a guess here, ....None!!
The agency couldn't have pulled this off by themselves, there had to be knowledge of what was going on by Jessica, otherwise she wouldn't of been there to meet you. Whatever way you look at this situation you've found yourself in, there was deception, and deception from both of them. If your looking past that, and moving forward as you indicated in your post, that's fine, but keep it in mind Mike don't totally forget it.
I think trust is the hardest thing to recover, and you need to do exactly that if your relationship is going to succeed. I hope you do find it possible to recover that trust, because it's clear you want this relationship to endure and succeed!
But surely not at ANY cost!! Good luck Mike, and i really do mean that, ...for both of you!!
David....
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Only Mike can decide if this is right for him.I took a total different slant on the post.The girl has ben burned before and doesn't want to get burned again.She is writing to a man or the translater is writing to the man wich she has some involvment in.Thsi is a big commitment on the part of the lady.Especially after she has ben burned.From what I gatherd from Mike's post she has written to other men before.And they didn't follow through.So I'm thinking she is a little gun shy.So Jessica is just protecting her self.And her daughter.
No I wouldn't of ben happy with the deception.But when you know some of the facts as I'm sure Mike does.It is alot easer to understand.
David you met Lucy when you were living in Chine Right? This online dating things has a lot of twist and turns that you missed out on by being there.So the lady does need a little leaway.The ladies are writing to a person from a different country with different customs.This is a big step for her.As it is for us.
Take willy for example.He lives in Zhuhai.Is getting along great with his lady.Why?.Because he is right there right now.He isn't trying to build a relationship across the enternet.It is a totaly different playing field.When you are using the enternet.
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Removed by Author,
I decided to remove my comments here, I feel that perhaps my post came across the wrong way and I did not mean any disrespect to anyone here.
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Let's face it, they are not young and single anymore, they are mature women and often divorced with grown-up children.... i think they have deserved the right to come and go as they please ....don't you ??
Well your age group 40+ may be a different story in itself. But whatever age group, women ( particularly 'singles' ) still respect the opinions of the their elders and don't want to lose face even ... if they're not a 'loose' lady. This is not only my opinion but told by ladies here themselves to me. Gossiping & speculating among neighbours is a huge social activity. The bottom line is ... to each their own.
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Bob it is just a opinion.My wife wanted to meet a Canadian.When I asked why not a American.She said because her friend lived in Canada.And that is where she wanted to go.
All it is is just the other side of the coin.I remember in School.They told us How bad and how dangerouse the Chinese people are.When I went to China the first time.One of my first thoughts When I arrived in China was.My goverment lied to me my teachers lied to me.
I'm pretty sure that is the same thing Jessica is dealing with.It is something that she heard or read somewhere.
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Ultimately men as much as we want others to succeed in this off the chart way of looking for a woman to spend the rest of our life with it is up to the man who is seeing the woman. We all want 2 things for Mike. 1. That he succeeds in finding a good wife and 2. that he is not burned badly in the process of looking. One of the things that happens is that we hear about the man who was burned but we hear very little about the woman who was burned. It appears to me that the Agency did something wrong with Mike but wanted to make things right with Jessica. From what I can see Jessica is saying all of the right things to Mike. We can't judge Jessica because we do not see the whole picture in this situation but Mike has a better chance of seeing it than we do. He sees the look in Jessica's face and how she responds to him.
As far as the judgmental thing about Canada. People have a tendency to judge everything that is associated with the offender. I see the same thing in this thread today. Some of you are judging Jessica by other women who have burned other men. Neither of these are good.
If I were faced with the same exact situation and seeing how she is dealing with the issues I would rather spend as much time with her until I am able to go home. He can take up the issue of deceit with the Agency once he gets home. I think considering all that is going on Mike has been handling things admirably by checking where she is as far as the relationship is concerned and working toward separating her from the agency so that they can really get to know each other better.
I know it is difficult to watch a man move down this path but Mike a one who can handle it. He isn't afraid to ask questions to clarify issue and is doing a great job here.
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Thing is Scott, Mike's dealing with the situation the way he wants to deal with it. If he has to bend, let him bend. Don't hold it against him for being and acting different than you would. I believe it is the man's place in life to deal with the emotional woman, to be the rock of stability to her ocean of instability.
We chose the path we take. If you want an eastern woman to adapt to you, you had better lay that on the table early and clearly so she understands that and so she can decide if that's the path she wants to follow. There's nothing wrong with it. There is give and take in every relationship. Communication is key. That and the ability to not get upset with something goes sideways, because it always does, to some extent.
A quick note on honesty. Honesty goes both ways. I don't mean her to you/you to her, I mean give and take. If you think she's not being honest and don't confront it, you are responsible for the outcome. Demand honesty and show honesty and you will receive honesty. And yes, honesty is a bit lower on the scale in China than face. So, that makes our struggle that much tougher.
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Scott I did read the posts all of them.You asked me why I would stick up for the women.Easiest question all day.Because Ive seen this before many many times.
I haven't ben to China Just one time.My wife doesn't have just one friend that signed up with the agencies.I have read the letters you guy's send to the ladies.I really can't beleave you guys write that stuff in thoose letters.they read like a third rate porno novel.Try to explain to a Chinese women with limited English what the letter really says.Then see the look on her face when she understands what the letter says.
I have even met some of theese guys.That were trying to date my wifes friends.Halfe of them I wouldn't pee on if they were on fire.They were so close minded I was suprised that they could get to China on there own.One of theese guys pulls me aside in a restraunt.And asks me hey when does the fun start.I say what fun.He says when do i get to pull down her panties and we get it on.
If your wondering I told the girl what the guy said to me.She left him setting in the hotel.So the guy leaves China comes back to the states.And startes posting on Chnlove.How the girl is a scam how the agency is a scam.How he spent all that money on airfare and hotel.And how cheated and disapointed he feels.That was after the women told him why she left him setting in the hotel room.
I will admit this was just one extreme case.None of the other guys asked me that.But they all had the same mind set.They think they go all the way to China to meet.That the women owes them something.My question is what do you think she owes you?
She spent money to even have her profile on the web site.(Close to 3 months salary).When and if the man shows up she is going to have to pay the meeting fee.She will need to take time off of work.Costing her more money.Most of them pay for little things here and there taxis a meal or two.She is going to have to convince her family that this is the best for her futur happiness.
So Scott I ask you again what do you think she owes you? Do you think she should just drop her life and follow you where you want to go.Forget her customs and culture.Do you think she needs to Beleave in your god,Have the same thoughts as you the same morals and scruppels.
Sorry man it probably isn't going to happen.If it does happen.You probably won't like the end result anyway.And if it do's happen you wonder why your so miserable.Because the women just follows you.Doesn't make you streatch your mind.Or change your thinking.You never learn anything new or exciting.From your wife.Or this little adventure all the members of this forum are living.
To answer your question.Yes they do take up are ways after they have ben living it for a little while.They do Change.My wife eats some of the same food I do.She do's some of the same things I do the way I do them.We even agree about culture and custom issues between the two different countries sometimes.
Somebody wants told me.You can take the women out of China.But your not going to take the China out of the women.Truer words have never ben spoken.
One of my wifes other friend who was signed with the same agency.Met a man he comes to China.Turns out he can't get out from under the hotel bed.So the man goes home calls her every night.says he loves her wants to marry her.Calls the next night says it is over.Does this everynight for 2 weeks.She finnaly drops the guy.After me and my wife tell her to.
I sign her up with a different company all together.She is getting 10 to 15 hits a day.She picks the man that interest her.Me and my wife help her write the letters and then translate the mans letters to her.So that she doesn't have to get up 2 hours earlier to try to translate the letters on her own.After 3 months the man just dissapers.I call the guy.to find out whats up.He tells me oh I started talking to another women.I ask is that your only reason.The man says no I dont really want to go to China.I ask him what are you doing on a marrage web site that only has Chinese women .he tells me he was just looking.He made first contact with the women.I tell my wifes friend the truth.It Crushes my wife's friend.
She takes a 2 month break.Asks me to sign her up again.I sign her up.Repeat above story at least 6 times to yourself.You mite come close to the number of men she talked to for the next 3 years.They all had different excuses.Different ideas not a one of them will make the trip.
Last guy comes out of know where first day on the site starts talking to my wifes friend.Her English is good enough.She doesn't need my help.5 months latter he is in Hong Kong.They get married.Have ben married for 3 months.He is working on the visa now.
So Scott I have seen this played out from both sides.And alot of the time it is the mans fault it doesn't work.We as men have all theese pre concived notions of what a Chinese women is supposed to be.And how she is supposed to act. Then when it isn't like we think it should be.Most of us can't adjust. I have said this before.I will say it again.This is not for everybody.
Jessica was just putting up a defense mechanism so she didn't get hurt again.There had ben men before Mike who had wrote to her.And probably promised her the moon.When they didn't keep there promises she got hurt.
Some people still beleave that when you tell them you are going to do something.That you will actually do it.And after they get stepped on a few times.They learn and act just like the rest of the human race.
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Scott I did read the posts all of them.You asked me why I would stick up for the women.Easiest question all day.Because Ive seen this before many many times.
Maxx
That is the BEST piece of writing I have read here.....I will say no more, you have said it all.
Thanks...DavidE
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Maxx,
I read your post two or three times, so i know where your coming from, and know what your trying to get over here. The problem with your argument as far as i see it anyway, is that if the two people involved are honest with each other, ie, she tells the the man of her past experiences, and that if he thinks along the same lines then there is no future between them. This also goes for the man involved too of course.. Without that honesty there is no foundation to any lasting relationship. Trust is also an issue here, it's during those corresponding times that trust is being laid down between you both.
There are always going to be men such as you describe in your post, just as there are going to be women of a similar ilk. Your argument about these women trying to protect themselves from such men, goes equally towards the men that have made the effort to visit these women. Remember, the women can just turn round, even on the first day of a visit and say to the guy visiting, ''sorry, but your not what i expected and end the relationship there and then'' and walk away without any comeback on herself. ...Or, after a few days of knowing this guy ...if she is of the opinion that this guy only wants to get into my pants, she has the same escape route. The man on the other hand, has no escape route as such. He has flown thousands of miles to be with this woman and is now in a foreign country, he's only hope is some sort of back-up plan. If he caused his own problem with the lady, then he only has himself to blame and that's life i'm afraid... So the protection thing you talk about, doesn't hold that much water as far as i'm conserned.
Continuing on this protection front, that your basing your post on. Do you really think that telling outright lies and generally being deceptive is acceptable as a protection plan?? I'm sorry but i don't, and again that goes for both parties. ...not just the ladies!!
If the guy or the lady isn't prepared to put time and effort into an internet relationship of this type then both sides are wasting each others time, ....so it's back to the honesty and trust thing again, and being prepared for some setbacks and heartache along the way. I'm afraid that's just a fact of life, it sure does suck at the time, but life goes on....
Referring to Mike...
Now i'm sure that everyone here knows that Mike is a very decent guy, and that would have been more than evident to his lady, Jessica if she had taken the time and effort to read his posts and asked the questions of him that she herself needed to know, She didn't!! What sort of protection was she putting in place, by not telling him she had moved with her daughter to Japan?? ...None that i can see or think of!! (i don't know if she moved, before or after they had started communicating) What i do know is, that all of this could have been totally avoided if she had been as honest with Mike as he has always been with her....
I'm sure that Mike knows a lot more than has been let known here, he is the man on the ground so to speak, and using his intuition, wisdom, to work his own way through all this upset. His character is a strong one, and he's not a fool by any stretch of the imagination, so if he thinks he can see a way through his predicament then that's what he'll do. He can obviously see, that there is light at the end of the tunnel, and that if she is coming clean with him, and there are no more points of deception he is willing to start again from scratch. Only he knows his own limits to what he will accept and what he wont, and we should support him in whatever he decides.....
About myself Maxx, you were wrong to assume that i met Lucy face to face, She was living the other side of China when i first made contact with her, and we were both unable to visit for well over 3 months due to work commitments on both sides. So we had 3 months or so, doing exactly the same as everyone else on this site, with the one big exception, she speaks and writes English better than i do!! ...hahaha!! And virtually from the start (after about a month) also used IM/webcam.... telephone etc....
David.....
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David I hear what you are saying but the time a effort thing here doesn't wash. She is in Japan and tired of the whole thing it appears. It seems she is a hopeless romantic non the less and listens to her translator. The old, "Is this going to be the one?" It is the quest that keeps most people going whether it be love or money. Remember she was going back to Japan even before Mike got there. So why did she stay? Hopeless romantic or want to (forgive the language) screw over one more white guy?
This is all too much of a "conspiracy theory" minded thing. Sure there are smoking guns all over the place but the problems with this one is she could have kept on going and not look back. She didn't do that.
As far as men getting the shaft over these issues, most guys know now they are taking a big chance when they go. We all start out wanting a simply beautiful Chinese woman who never says no to us, never argues with us, never complains, and waits on us hand and foot. As we begin to learn we find that we have unreasonable expectations about Chinese women. Women are women just like men are men to varying degrees. Most western men would be more like Chinese men had we the chance. Chinese women would be more like western women had they the chance. I have met several Asian women that have spent most of their life here in the US and guess what other than being very attractive and more alluring than American women in most ways they are just like America women.
So what attracts us isn't always what keeps us. I won't go into that right now. I need to move back to Mikes situation. There is one more angle that Mike is looking at that we have not covered. It is the religious issue and knowing this isn't the religion thread it is Mikes thread so here I go. Most people who are involved with their faith and Mike is that kind of person as am I, believe our steps are ordered by God. I think it is fairly safe for me to say this and Mike can confirm or call bull to what I am saying. Mike believes that God has a plan in him going there and that there is a plan for the two of them together. If Mike didn't see God in this situation he would bug out in a hurry.
Jessica is a Christian too. Look at a few of the things that have happened. Jessica stayed when she could have left. 16 year old Sharon like Mike very much. Now tell me that isn't a God thing. Jessica's mother who hates western men absolutely loves Mike right off the bat and gives him a Bible. Mike does not see these things as coincidences. So, all things considered, Mike is moving forward, Jessica's faith in western men is being restored and these guys look like they have a real chance. I say, Mike go for it.
Maxx, excellent post!!!! You are seeing it from a healthy prospective; both sides.
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Your all making good points today. The thing is each is a individual meeting. I haven't read it here but I have at the Chnlove forum guys thinking they are getting sex slaves. I find this despicable that some men think this is the way to go? Is sex important? Yes but there is a difference of making love then having sex with your partner. If your think playing games with these women is the way to gain some excitement in your life. Grow up and be real men.
Some I had written before had told me of men making all kinds of promises and even telling them they were going to see them and then disappearing? How do you think it made them feel? Like they were lied too? Played with their feelings and cheated on. This could also give them an insecurity they may have about their looks, shape or just their english as they try to understand why they were cut off.
I can not say what is with all these women? Why some turn at the last minute? To many reasons to pinpoint what the problem was. I can't say they are right either. What was written and what was read could be way different.
As for Mike? He hasn't asked for help, he's just telling us what is going on and what's being done. He has to work it out however he feels he should.
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Some really great posts in this topic on both side, good to see intelligent debate not descending into name calling like I've seen on so many other internet forums, thank you guys.
Personally I think there's merits in both sides to he debate however the only one that can really decide what's right and wrong in Mike's situation is Mike. He's a smart guy, he's there in China interacting with his lady,and seems to have his feet firmly on the ground, ultimately its him that has to make the final call on this, simply put he's the one that has all the facts not us.
In some other posters stories alarm bells were ringing from post one in the past but i'm not really hearing them here, but again that's just my opinion.
Mike I wish you all the best truly, being there is one heck of a roller-coaster ride that's for sure and you seem to be dealing with it well so far.
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I have to say that this past two days of communication is what makes this forum the best. Each person with their own views and beliefs and yet given with respect. I know we all wish the best for Mike and his Lady. I know that by reading and re-reading these posts, I have learned a lot, and for that I am thankful. Mike I know these relationships work, last night I took some time off and went to a Chinese Dance program that was here in Greensboro. I saw many, many cross culture marriages of all ages. It was a beautiful program and it was nice to see that work and trust can be rewarded in a lasting relationship.
buzz
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Mike, I am truly sorry that it is not all an easy way. I know you are a real man and will work it out, however it goes, to your satisfaction. I have to tell you that after reading all of this, I ran over to my wife and gave her a big kiss and thanked her and told her how happy I was to be here with her. She is my wife forever more. The road is tough sometimes. We are still not finished. But the hardest emotional part is done. We now have no control over what happens other than putting the right paperwork in place. so Mike, do whatever you have to do to make it work for you no matter which way it comes out. You know for certain that whatever you need you have it from the people here.
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Mike thank you for the post..As others have said here and you have confirmed, you have all the facts, and you are the one who is interacting with Jessica...The ultimate decision is with you, and reading from the responses, 'WE' all know what your going with...So the best to you both, congrats mate...:icon_biggrin:
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All those theory postings from other brothers about 'dishonesty' in your EMFs was all for naught. Your last post proves that you and only you know about your situation and that Jessica's a honest lady who's just protecting her life ... which she has every right to do. That's the thing about Forum posting & opinions, too many people jump to conclusions based on negative story experiences when the whole facts in Mike's case wasn't reveal.
Maxx ... I totally agree with your post.
Mike ... Good for you, enjoy the rest of your trip. :icon_cheesygrin:
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Shaun, ....
Are you serious????, ...The time effort thing doesn't wash?? Sorry Shaun, it bloody does wash.... were talking 14 months here, not 3 or 6 or 8months, ...but 14 MONTHS and all the money that went with that time and effort too. All a waste of time!!
There's a little thing called honesty Shaun, and that's been sorely lacking here on her part. If she was in Japan and tired of the whole thing, then she should of hidden her profile or have been honest with Mike about the way she feels.... Just look at the bloody big mess, that has been caused by saying nothing at all!!!!
As for the conspricy thing, ....that's unfortunately what happens Shaun, when one or both of you aren't honest with each other!!
Your right about the Christian thing, i don't see things the same way as Mike, i just see the reality of the thing in front of me.... But i do trust his ability to use that insight, it is after all a part of his make-up as a man...
David.....
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All those theory postings from other brothers about 'dishonesty' in your EMFs was all for naught. Your last post proves that you and only you know about your situation and that Jessica's a honest lady who's just protecting her life ... which she has every right to do. That's the thing about Forum posting & opinions, too many people jump to conclusions based on negative story experiences when the whole facts in Mike's case wasn't reveal.
Maxx ... I totally agree with your post.
Mike ... Good for you, enjoy the rest of your trip. :icon_cheesygrin:
Chong the dishonesty in the emf's were just THAT... DISHONEST, she DID not write them!!!!
What do you want the members here to do...SAY NOTHING when we get the NEWS we got, we all want to 'back up' our fellow brother and show him some support, and some possible reasons for why she done it? ..I for one 'jumped in BECAUSE me and MIke and spoken about this, because I am going to the same place he is, and he wanted to make me aware......Lets be TOTALLY HONEST HERE Chong, ..WHAT WERE YOUR FIRST THOUGHTS WHEN YOU READ ABOUT MIKES PROBLEM???
Did you just sit there and think, everyone is wrong...
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Chong,
I'm not quite sure what message your putting across here? If you are talking solely about Mike then fine, he has made that choice to forgive... If on the other hand your talking about those of us that brought up the question of dishonesty and deceit .....what are you saying, ...we were all wrong?? If that is the case your doing the brothers here an injustice, because no-matter how well others here have dressed this up, Jessica was NOT honest, in her dealings with Mike, not by any one's stretch of the imagination. Mike went to China, on the basis of Lie's and half truths, there wasn't any honesty until he was in China. That's not what he (or anyone else) was expecting on his visit to China.
This protection thing is just dressage, The ladies are in there own country, they can (and do) pull out of a relationship at anytime, before, during, and after any visit by a man to meet them. I'm quite sure that some have been hurt before in there dealings with some western men, but hey, so have the men, how are they to protect themselves from unscrupulous women and agencies?? ...With far more difficulties than the ladies is the correct answer!!
It's just a fact of life, we all get emotionly hurt, it's the price we all pay for finding that right person to be in our life. Everything starts with honesty, and ends in trust, If there's no honesty during communications then there is precious little trust.... I've covered this area in another post so i wont go over it again here...
Again i will reiterate, ...this deception went on for 14 Months..... Let it be said now, ...that Mike is a very brave man indeed, for his forgiving. There are very few men here on this Forum that would still be trying to make this relationship work for him, and that includes you and myself, Chong!! He is taking a huge leap of faith, and because of other factors relating to his Christian faith, i know him as an honest man, i can and will, wish him only the very best of luck and success on his endeavors for his relationship to succeed out of the ashes he found himself in through no fault of his own...
David.....
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Chinese single woman with teenage child "emigrating" to Japan..........????????
Be VERY careful that she has not married a Japanese Man.
DavidE
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...but 14 MONTHS and all the money that went with that time and effort too. All a waste of time!!
There's a little thing called honesty Shaun, and that's been sorely lacking here on her part. If she was in Japan and tired of the whole thing, then she should of hidden her profile or have been honest with Mike about the way she feels.... Just look at the bloody big mess, that has been caused by saying nothing at all!!!!
Your right about the Christian thing, i don't see things the same way as Mike, i just see the reality of the thing in front of me.... But i do trust his ability to use that insight, it is after all a part of his make-up as a man...
1) Why is it a waste of time ? Is Mike there ... Yes ! Are they making an effort in their relationship ? ... Yes !
2) Did you even read Mike's post # 237 or are you just listening to your own words ? There are reasons why Jessica didn't reveal her situation thus the EMFs from the agencies reflected that.
3) And ... No ! ... the reality of the thing is not in front of you ... but in front of Mike. He's there talking to Jessica, not you, David.
And Yes, I'm only talking about Mike's situation. This is his thread afterall.
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Ok so we agree Mike is a hellva man for following this threw.Do we all agree on this? If so then we do not need to discuss this any more.
Now as I understand.The focus of this debate is Honesty and intrgrety.On the part of the agencies and the ladies.It seems to me that some members here.See honesty in black or white.Your eather telling the truth or your not.
after 20 years in the auto industry.And growing up in the southwest.I see shades of grey.There is a reason why somebody is lieing to you.It is ussually better to find out why the person is lieing to you.Before you pass judgment.
A few months ago.A member posted on here.That his lady didn't want him to use the EMF service to tell her when he was comming to China.So the bells are going off in this guy's head.The very first post a member posts dump the bitch.In thoose exact words.
I'm thinking ok why would you post something like that.And why would something like this make bells go off in the guys head.When you didn't have all the facts of the story.So I posted to give it 24 hours and ask the lady why she didn't want to use the EMF.That is what the member did.Her reply was so that she wouldn't have to pay the meeting fee and the agency wouldn't hound the guy to pay the agency fees.
I try to see things from both sides where most people only see it from one side.If I can't see both sides.I will ask my wife what she thinks and go from there.You know she is a Chinese women from China.So I think she has a good idea on how a Chinese women mind works.
What would of happend if the guy who started the thread.Had he took the first suggestion that he had recieved.He would still be looking for the women of his dreams.After blowing the first women off.This is just one story.I have seen this time and again on here and the 2 other forums.People passing judgment before they know all the facts.
We have already disscused that the letters could be written by someone else.Or that the agency has made a fake profile to generate money.Every member on here has read theese threads and should be aware by now that yes this can happen to you.
In a perfect world theese things wouldn't happen to any of us.In a perfect world over halfe of us would of never even ben on this site having this debate.We would all be married to are first wives or sweethearts.We would all have the 2.3 kids and living the perfect life.It isn't a perfect world.
Thoose of you that can only see things in black or white.wrong or right.Are missing out on a life well lived.It is a shame that we have to doubt what people tell us.But that is life.
The funny part about all of this is we are supposed to be the top of the evoloutionary gene pool.But we are the ones who hurt and kill are own.Where is the truth and honesty in this?
The Jessica thing would not be a deal breaker.In my own opinion she did what she thought was neccisarry to protect herself and her daughter.Faced with the same situation under the same circumstances.Some of us mite of done even more.To protect are selves and are families.
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she is not counting her hens before they are hatched..... she is waiting for the wedding to happen ... and then she will be convinced ... you see.. after I leave here in 3 days, I might change my mind about her ... I know that I won't, but she has to deal with the reality that I might, because it has happened to her before...
I can relate Mike...the night before I was to depart after my 1st trip, my then fiance was distant and sad. She cried once that evening and when I asked her why the tears, she answered that she was worried that when I left, I would not return.
I have to compliment the brotherhood on the very animate and interesting discussion of differing opinions. But most of all, I tip my hat to you Mike. I can see as Shaun has observed, that your faith has given you great strength and wisdom to endure in what has been a:sleepy: most enjoyable read for us here. You are living the adventure and traversing the rapids of fate on your own voyage of discovery.
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If that is the case your doing the brothers here an injustice, because no-matter how well others here have dressed this up, Jessica was NOT honest, in her dealings with Mike, not by any one's stretch of the imagination. Mike went to China, on the basis of Lie's and half truths, there wasn't any honesty until he was in China. That's not what he (or anyone else) was expecting on his visit to China.
Again i will reiterate, ...this deception went on for 14 Months..... Let it be said now, ...that Mike is a very brave man indeed, for his forgiving. There are very few men here on this Forum that would still be trying to make this relationship work for him, and that includes you and myself, Chong!!
You said it yourself ... Mike's in China now and learning the truth. How he got there doesn't matter at this point regarding the past EMFs. Look at JimB ... same thing happened to him and he's married now. Iit's the game guys have to play with ChnLove.
Oh ... so now, you're speaking on behalf of my thoughts, David ! How would you know ?
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I think an amendment needs to be made to Maxx's 24 hour rule as I see some steam coming from the last 2 pages of postings. Please count to 10 guys and simmer off some of the emotion before replying :s
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Well sead Maxx.
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Rhonald my story is real close to yours.When I was leaving Zhuhai after my first trip.My wife asked me if she would ever hear from me again.I wonder if it is something programed into there brains.To think that we will all just leave.And never talk to them again.
Is this kind of thing happining more then I think it is.Are the men making the first trip and then just dissapearing.
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The Jessica thing would not be a deal breaker.In my own opinion she did what she thought was neccisarry to protect herself and her daughter.Faced with the same situation under the same circumstances.Some of us mite of done even more.To protect are selves and are families.
Maxx
That is a bit over the top and you have not represented this particular situation accurately.
We are talking 14 months of EMF's here, where the Lady and the Agency conspired to send many, many letters that were generated between the Lady and Agency by phone....many, many, many times. And you dont think they knew what they were doing ??????(there are also Fairies in the bottom of my garden)
Nobody questions her right to do exactly as she chooses to protect herself and her family....but what was the point in allowing such a deception to persist for 14 MONTHS ??
What was the point in hiding the fact that she had permanently moved to Japan...and dont believe the bull-s**t about getting away from the Agency and more money...
And how can a single woman, with child, with poor Japanese language skills manage to get a job well-paid enough to survive in Japan...plus pay for schooling which is expensive in Japan ??
No, the more logical explanation is that this was all a game for them to continue the cash stream of EMF's...and "work out the problems when they occur"...if they occur.
To bend the truth to fit the current situation is human nature, we all create our own world to a greater or lesser extent...but down and out deception is not covered in this methodology.
So maybe they are all laughing their heads off at this guy who kept the EMF's going for 14 months...maybe not. But I know where my money is going !!
I am not there looking over Mike's shoulder, so I and all of us dont know the exact detail...its none of our business....but so much is wrong in this specific case...which ,by the way is more the normal than the, "meet and live happily everafter" outcome.
DavidE
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Is this kind of thing happining more then I think it is.Are the men making the first trip and then just dissapearing.
I think that maybe the ladies are picking up on a vibe. I remember being happy about returning home and to noramility. I had come to China and met my girl. I also remembering I was content and if we carried on or not, I would be content. Maybe the women sense our thoughts and think we are happy leaving and thus they become afraid that we are abandoning them.
Maybe with some men, they never feel responsible for the hearts of others. Obviously these men are predators - not romantics.
After reading the book Factory Girls (my main source for my view point) and other articules and postings - I think the Chinese mind set is that the ends justify the means. I am not of this mind set (anti-Machiavelian) but I can understand the logic (game theory).
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Chong the dishonesty in the emf's were just THAT... DISHONEST, she DID not write them!!!!
What do you want the members here to do...SAY NOTHING when we get the NEWS we got, we all want to 'back up' our fellow brother and show him some support, and some possible reasons for why she done it? ..I for one 'jumped in BECAUSE me and MIke and spoken about this, because I am going to the same place he is, and he wanted to make me aware......Lets be TOTALLY HONEST HERE Chong, ..WHAT WERE YOUR FIRST THOUGHTS WHEN YOU READ ABOUT MIKES PROBLEM???
Did you just sit there and think, everyone is wrong...
Like yourself, I write PMs to Mike. The post that changes everything is post # 237. Did you even read it ? Those are the 'possible reasons' why Jessica did what she did. After learning from reading Sylvain's trip thread, I'm withholding any public thoughts till the end of his trip ... well, except for now ... LOL.
Just like JimB ... same situation ... you just have to make lemonade out of lemons. He made it work. Mike can do the same.
Did I say that everyone was "wrong" ??? Show me that quote.
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David E I don't know why.She would let the deception go for 14 months.We would have to ask her.If you want me to guess.I would say that like you she has ben burned one to many times.And doesn't beleave Antbody any more.But that is just a guess.Only Jessica knows the real answer.
The schooling the living in Japan.That is probably paid for by her family.Brothers sisters uncles cousins.That is how my wife and her brother.Went to college.That is how my Friends daughters went to art school.For 4 years.And the oldest daughter had a job right out of art school.She got the job threw a family member.
Yes it is more logical as you say to keep the cash flow going as you say.If this is a scam.If this is a scam wouldn't the scam be up? Wouldn 't it make more sence to keep Mike out of China.Keep the cash flow going.And when and if Mike did show up.Wouldn't it have ben easier for Jessica to leave Mike standing at the airport.Or kept the scam going for another weak to see if he would be bying more gifts.And leaving maybe some money.
In my opinion way to complicated.Just leave him standing at the airport.We don't make an impression on Chnlove.They arn't worried about what we write hear.After all we have only 243 members.Out of a possibilty of thousands of men they could scam.
You could be right they could be reading this right now and be worried about you.And laughing there ass off about me defending the lady.I don't think it is a deal breaker.I think the women is legit.As I have stated before.
If I'm wrong I'm wrong and I will apoligise to Mike and the rest of the members.I don't think I'm wrong.It's just to complicated to be a scam.If this thing does go south on Mike it is going to be a completly different reason then this.
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Chong,
I just had to laugh at your first statement here. ....So 14 months of writing to an agency translator is fine by you is it ?? 14 months of making no effort what so ever to contact Mike by any other means to let him know the situation is fine by you?? 14 months of joint deception is fine by you is it?? Flying out to China under false pretences is also fine by you is it ?? Are you really serious here Chong?? If this had been you, or almost any other brother would it have still been fine by you?? Yeah!! ....Right, ...God , what the hell are we all doing here??
Sure i read his post #237, Are you saying that makes everything alright ?? So we can say to the Ladies now... No problem ladies, ...lie away, I'm just protecting myself from you and the agency, i don't have any responsibilities towards you or your time and efforts. I didn't bother to read the majority of your letters, you could have been like the other 3 guys I've known!! ...Yeah Chong, that's a great message to give out to the brothers here!!
The reality, is in front of you and me. The basic reality is that she has been part of a deception, for whatever reason you want to label it, ...that is a FACT!! Please don't come out with this protection thing again, it doesn't hold much water, for all the reasons I've previously posted. Let's get one thing absolutly clear here, ...No matter what, ....there is no justification for deception or dishonesty, If you and others are going to start going down the road of picking out different bits and bobs to try and justify not adhereing to that basic rule you've lost the plot!! Remember.... Basic Honesty = ''Trust!!''
Having said all that above, i totally respect Mike's decision in what he, as an individual has decided he wants to do in his situation. Yes he has more of the facts than any of us here, and he's using those and his interactions with her as a basis to allow himself to move forward.
Don't cloud the issue here, with what Mike is so far trying and managing to do, with the fundamentals here Chong. For one thing Mike is seeing this from a totally different view point than either of us or the majority of the brothers here.... And if he pulls it off i for one, will be genuinely pleased for both him and Jessica...
David....
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Just like JimB ... same situation ... you just have to make lemonade out of lemons. He made it work. Mike can do the same.
Jim B was in a totally different place...from my reading of his posts, he was one of the lucky ones who met, corresponded with, fell in love with...and married his lady without any of the dramas we are seeing in Mike's case. It was an example to us all about what can go RIGHT.
He didnt have to "make it work"...it worked because it was founded in and based on...HONESTY !...from BOTH of them.
Learn and weep !!!
DavidE
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Take willy for example.He lives in Zhuhai.Is getting along great with his lady.Why?.Because he is right there right now.He isn't trying to build a relationship across the enternet.It is a totaly different playing field.When you are using the enternet.
I am not a good example at the moment. 4 unwarranted words spoken by me as a question last week has disrupted my world here at present. I will know by next weekend if we have a future. I should have stuck to the 24 hour rule.
Willy
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David,
First you gripe ... on and on and on ... about 14 months of EMFs. Yeah yeah ... we hear you also gripe ... on and on and on ... about honesty and dishonesty ... it's a broken record. Give it a rest !!! Nobody but Mike knows what's written in his EMFs. You even admit this. And then you wish him all the best and hope everything works out for him because he has good morals as a person and for hanging on for 14 months. If anybody, I'm the one who's laughing at your recent postings.
Jessica had her reasons as stated in post # 237 ... not # 247. Why don't you give her some benefits of the doubt. Mike's a good guy, I wish nothing but the best for him for hanging on for so long.
Just like JimB ... same situation ... you just have to make lemonade out of lemons. He made it work. Mike can do the same.
Jim B was in a totally different place...from my reading of his posts, he was one of the lucky ones who met, corresponded with, fell in love with...and married his lady without any of the dramas we are seeing in Mike's case. It was an example to us all about what can go RIGHT.
He didnt have to "make it work"...it worked because it was founded in and based on...HONESTY !...from BOTH of them.
Learn and weep !!!
DavidE
No DavidE, JimB's situation is a carbon copy of Mike's. His EMFs were all dishonest based on agency & translator's disceptions & fake letters. But Jim met Gina/Angel and fell in love and married.
For Mike, the story isn't over yet, and we don't know all the actual facts for sure. If what Jessica told Mike in their long conversation is true, the agency actually wasn't a part of any conspiracy, did anyone notice that??? And Jessica did mislead Mike, for the purpose of protecting herself. So we have a very complicated situation here.
Scott ... my complete agreement. That's what I noticed also. I think everybody needs to read # 237 again.
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I am not a good example at the moment. 4 unwarranted words spoken by me as a question last week has disrupted my world here at present. I will know by next weekend if we have a future. I should have stuck to the 24 hour rule.
Willy
[/quote]
Willy
4 words to crash a relationship...you gotta tell us what that is all about.........I am sure they must be 4 words that we all dare never use from here on in ??
Hope it can all be resolved happily...4 words shouldnt kill it if it is sound and strong...lets hope :)
DavidE
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David ... what do I stand for here ???
Since December 2008, myself and the other MODS have refined this Forum as a support site. If you bother to read any of my postings here and on FaceBook, I'm the first one to stand against dishonesty and deception from ChnLove and the agencies. I started a thread to list ladies that correspond with men so there are no duplication relationships. I'm the one who started a thread listing dishonest agencies so members can avoid using them or use them with extreme caution.
If there's anybody who's negative about ChnLove and it's process ... it's me. We're here to protect guys. BUT I also know that there are successful stories out there. We're a support Forum here. We all hope to hear more of them. So before you make any assumptions about me, get your facts right beforehand, David5o !
After reading post # 237, if you're not going to give her any benefits of the doubt because it's not your 'right' ... then you don't have any 'right' to call her a dishonest lady.
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I am not a good example at the moment. 4 unwarranted words spoken by me as a question last week has disrupted my world here at present. I will know by next weekend if we have a future. I should have stuck to the 24 hour rule.
Willy
Willy
4 words to crash a relationship...you gotta tell us what that is all about.........I am sure they must be 4 words that we all dare never use from here on in ??
Hope it can all be resolved happily...4 words shouldnt kill it if it is sound and strong...lets hope :)
DavidE
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All I will say is that i uttered 4 unwarranted words, and those four words not only questioned her love for me but also her as a person. I have shared the full story with just one person on this forum and intend to keep it as such until I have a resolution one way or another.
Willy
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Fony know just what is going on between some of the bros, but I read Mike's poat #237 and I can see no deception in it except maybe thru the agency, and I can understand from what he says about her trying of avoid the harsh payments that the agency may want to charge and the fact that she did leave and live in Japan and I understand the fact that if the agency knew it it could be very hard on her, and her family, Hell I plan on going and am hoping for the best and still it could all blow up in my face too, but the one thing I am watching here is a little story that my pappy taught me years ago about pointing fingers and that is if you point a finger at someone always remember that there are three pointing back at who ever is doing the pointing. Mike I guess maybe I have to stand up and be counted and be in your corner, your doing great and I dont give a f*****k what anybody else says, and I know that you and Jessica with make it work as you both want the same things and I hope I am the first one that hears that Sharon want to call you Pappy, Daddy, Poppa, Pop and Jessica will want to be like JimB's wife be called Mrs. Mike
thats my 2 cents so if you want to have at me get after it
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Mike and Jessica are starting over again and building a relationship from scratch. Despite the EMFs, they met. ... At this point, that's all that matters.
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Side step mike posting and welllllcome to the david and chong show. Now both of you step in your rightful corners and come out slamming each other.
There is no real need to once again post this mark of events on here. Take it off the forum and useless postings ok.
Sorry for mike to see all this. But i think he is old enough to make whatever decision is needed in his life. He posted here which i am sure to get some opinions of what has happen to help, either cope with the siutuation, or find a solution. Im sure he didnt need to see bickering between grown men to satisfy his situation.
Now my opinion for Mike. Remember this is a OPINION. I dont want people needing to remark to my post in detail and critic it. The 14 months does pose a problem to me. There are so many factors that play with all that. I would take things slow from here on out. Since you are not really sure what the truth and what is lies at this point and time. Sit back and sort things out accordingly. And see if things improve. If they dont then bail. But dont cloud ya judgement once ya do what ya need to do.
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Mike, I do not know you bro! I wish you the best, no-matter-what! The feuding in his thread is a complete HI-JACK! I will read this from start to finish real soon! I hope all turns out the way you wish!
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Scott ... First of all, this is rather a very complicated relationship situation. It's not a matter of leading by example by my postings. I'm just like any other Forum member expressing my views. I hope I led by example by the work that I and the other MODS have done for by developing FaceBook and this Forum ... before I gave up my MOD status.
You make good points about # 237. I "think" that Jessica's honest with herself first and foremost. We would be also. We have to look out for ourselves. I "think" that Jessica paid her agency fees and didn't want to give up on ChnLove totally; thus, the agency was on the outside looking in. What is she going to do ??? ... Change agencies ??? She had secrets that they didn't need to know; unfortuately, it became involved into the EMFs. I don't trust agencies at all, they're after money first and foremost. I've stated that before on different threads. Mike's a good honest guy, that's why I "think" Jessica continued with the letters hoping that this guy's different. Afterall, she had nothing to lose. The fact that she came back to China to visit him, the fact that he was introduced to her family, the fact that he was invited to their church tells me that she has some belief in him.
It's not whether I believe in only my theory and not others. How am I different from other guys disagreeing on other postings ??? Like you wrote, everybody has a right to disagree. My tone changed once it started getting personal. My apologies only go to Mike for hijacking his thread but the subject still involved his situation.
The only point I'm trying to make is that whatever happened in the 14 months of EMFs is irrevelant at this point. Yes, it may creat a bit of distrust for Mike & he spent a lot of money ... but everything's has to move FORWARD ... wouldn't you agree ??? Jessica's opening up more and more to Mike. I can agree on one thing that has been mentioned many times ... you really don't know a person till you meet !!! David5o & others has mentioned this many times. So Mike & Jessica finally met after 14 months of suspect EMFs. Let them start from scratch and build a possible relationship. With ChnLove, we can't avoid translator's enchanced EMFs & partial dishonesty, it's part of the process. We all know this fact.
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I think that I will slip back into the shadows for the rest of the week and await my fate. I am in that 'not sure what is happening' stage. Maybe Mike is feeling the same as me but for a different reason . But are we helping him or others by tearing ourself apart from within.
Willy
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You guys are starting to remind me of the three stooges. Pick two finger, O wise guy? What are you laughing at porcupine? If you guys are finished flexing your Hormones....
Mike had questions before he went that he got partial or no answer to. This is why they are going over things. She wasn't lying to him she wasn't sure about many things so she either didn't say or couldn't. It was his chance to go and get things straight and find if it is a relationship going forward or not. From here it's up to him in what he feels and thinks.
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Shaun, ....
Are you serious????, ...The time effort thing doesn't wash?? Sorry Shaun, it bloody does wash.... were talking 14 months here, not 3 or 6 or 8months, ...but 14 MONTHS and all the money that went with that time and effort too. All a waste of time!!
There's a little thing called honesty Shaun, and that's been sorely lacking here on her part. If she was in Japan and tired of the whole thing, then she should of hidden her profile or have been honest with Mike about the way she feels.... Just look at the bloody big mess, that has been caused by saying nothing at all!!!!
As for the conspricy thing, ....that's unfortunately what happens Shaun, when one or both of you aren't honest with each other!!
Your right about the Christian thing, i don't see things the same way as Mike, i just see the reality of the thing in front of me.... But i do trust his ability to use that insight, it is after all a part of his make-up as a man...
David.....
David,
Thanks for replying but consider a couple of things here. She does not have a computer and does not have control like we do in having your profile out there or not. Secondly, the agency initiated the conversation with Mike not Jessica and continued. Consider that both Mike and Jessica was being deceived by the agency. It happens and I am reasonably sure this is the case here. It is too easy to jump to conclusions not experiencing what happens on the other side of the agency.
When you go back and re-read all of the posts Mike is consistent in all he conveys and the same is true with Mike's report of what Jessica says. Re-read Mike's posts from 9/5, he goes into a greater depth of the issues from her side.
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It's alright Willy we are just agreaing to disagree.Nobodies called anybody dirty names yet.So it should be ok.We all hope and wish for the best for Mike.
Yes Willy you have me wondering what thoose four words are.We are all hear waiting with you for the out come of your own problems.Good luck and best wishes.I hope this works out in your favor.
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Scott I think you need to go back and read some of my other posts.I don't always defend the women without good reason.I do have a pretty good idea how most of theese will play out by the members post.And from the time I have spent on theese forums.And from the time I have spent in China.
I don't just think of this stuff all on my own.It comes with alot of experience.In that part of the world.When you were reading your books.I was probably in some part of Asia.Squatting in the village mudd eating rice out of a bowl with a pair of handmade chopsticks.
You know I have ben all the way threw this. My wife lives with me in the states.We have ben married for over 3 years.Have a son.And another kid on the way.So it is probably a real good bet I have a good idea of what I'm talking about.
You asked me the other day if English is my first laungage it is.I grew up with so many different kinds of people.That you do learn to think outside of the box.It is a world where.Not everything is black and white Right or wrong. I speak a little Chinese, Japaneese,Thai,Spanish,Gutter Spanish,Lakota, and Navajo.I'm not fluent in any of theese laungauges but I can get by.
Scott go back and read your own posts.When you went to China.I'm willing to bet.That by reading your own posts.That you can figure out where it went wrong.They say hind site is 20/20.I'm willing to bet that you can pick out your mistakes.
I know what your thinking Scott.Your thinking that you didn't have any mistakes.That it was all her mistakes.Well I'm sure she did have some mistakes.You know this is her first time with a foriegnor.So she did have some mistakes.But I think you had double or triple her mistakes.And you couldn't get past yourself now or then to see your mistakes.So you are probably doomed to make.The same mistakes over and over.
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I may be wrong, however I get the impression that perhaps Jessica was a bit confused in the sense that she got burned before from a westerner and perhaps lost some faith in finding an honest western man, she probably said to herself, I will keep the EMF's going and see whats happens, will this guy named Mike actually come to China to see me one day? or his he like some of the others and just saying he will and then not show up? This could explain why Jessica kept the EMF"s going for so long.
I also get the impression that Jessica really wants this relationship to work out with Mike, she could have remained in Japan and leave Mike standing alone at the airport in China alone, but that is not what she did. She has been hurt from a westerner the last time, making all kinds of promises to her, and then leaving her with no real intentions of seeing her again, this must have been devastating to her, especially if she had intimate relations with this past Western male. (I wouldn't mind kicking that bastard in the ass, assholes like that make the rest of us good guys look bad) Excuse the bad words, I usually do not talk in such a way, but it just burns me to see that happen to what seems to be a good lady.
I being married to a Chinese woman (and I think the other brothers that are married to a Chinese woman here would agree with me on this particular point) is, that this terrible experience with the past western male would not only be devastating to her but also very EMBARRASSING. It makes perfect sense that she would use extreme caution in this relationship with Mike now, and YES, that also mean some "half truths".
I think Mike has the right approach and he has a head on his shoulders, he has shared some personal things with us regarding his relationship with Jessica. We all have our opinions, some of you have made some very good points, but perhaps we should all focus more on supporting Mike and Jessica and stop some of this bickering.
Mike, you are there in China with your girl face to face and have spent some time together, getting to know each other better, only you know and feel what your heart and mind is telling you, I wish you the best and no matter what the outcome is you have the support of all the brothers here.
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Mike, first let me say this. I hope everything works out for you the way you want it to. When it does it is the best you can hope for.
Secondly, I do not want to hi jack this thread but i have seen my name mentioned here and would like to clarify some things, you can see it in my thread.
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It appears to me,even the best laid out plans there's going to be twist and turns,
on nearly every post,there another problem we have to overcome,hopefully and
eventually with all the brothers input good and bad it will pave a smoother path for
the guys hoping to make a fresh start in life with a chinese wife,we shouldn't take
anything for granted as there are so many variables in any relationships,we can
only hope our knowledge of other people's successes and pitfalls can make it a
little bit easier,but even then it's still going to be difficult,so i just like to wish everybody
who's on the love train the very best of luck in your endeavors.
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No DavidE, JimB's situation is a carbon copy of Mike's. His EMFs were all dishonest based on agency & translator's disceptions & fake letters. But Jim met Gina/Angel and fell in love and married.
Chong
I read again all of JimB's posts about his journey......his only problem he posted about was the daughter, which he is dealing with. He and Gina were married shortly after his arrival in China...they did NOT have to re-build their relationship from scratch. I say again, this is not the same situation as Mike and his Lady.
I dont want to nit-pick here, but I dont enjoy being contradicted when I only talk about the facts as they were posted.
DavidE
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Chong the dishonesty in the emf's were just THAT... DISHONEST, she DID not write them!!!!
What do you want the members here to do...SAY NOTHING when we get the NEWS we got, we all want to 'back up' our fellow brother and show him some support, and some possible reasons for why she done it? ..I for one 'jumped in BECAUSE me and MIke and spoken about this, because I am going to the same place he is, and he wanted to make me aware......Lets be TOTALLY HONEST HERE Chong, ..WHAT WERE YOUR FIRST THOUGHTS WHEN YOU READ ABOUT MIKES PROBLEM???
Did you just sit there and think, everyone is wrong...
Like yourself, I write PMs to Mike. The post that changes everything is post # 237. Did you even read it ? Those are the 'possible reasons' why Jessica did what she did. After learning from reading Sylvain's trip thread, I'm withholding any public thoughts till the end of his trip ... well, except for now ... LOL.
Just like JimB ... same situation ... you just have to make lemonade out of lemons. He made it work. Mike can do the same.
Did I say that everyone was "wrong" ??? Show me that quote.
Hi Chong
You wanted me to point out where you say everyone is wrong, well here it is
"...All those theory postings from other brothers ...too many people jump to conclusions..."
That is enough from 'My' point of view to think this is what you meant. If you want to reply to this Chong then please do so by PM, I think the thread has been hijacked enough...
But enough has been said and everything has got a bit heated, so can WE ALL please get back to what Mike wants, and that is 'Getting on with his future with Jessica'...
Rob
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At the end of the day its what mike wants not what we think back of guys give him some room to move.
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Chong,
I'm not quite sure what message your putting across here? If you are talking solely about Mike then fine, he has made that choice to forgive... If on the other hand your talking about those of us that brought up the question of dishonesty and deceit .....what are you saying, ...we were all wrong?? If that is the case your doing the brothers here an injustice, because no-matter how well others here have dressed this up, Jessica was NOT honest, in her dealings with Mike, not by any one's stretch of the imagination. Mike went to China, on the basis of Lie's and half truths, there wasn't any honesty until he was in China. That's not what he (or anyone else) was expecting on his visit to China.
This protection thing is just dressage, The ladies are in there own country, they can (and do) pull out of a relationship at anytime, before, during, and after any visit by a man to meet them. I'm quite sure that some have been hurt before in there dealings with some western men, but hey, so have the men, how are they to protect themselves from unscrupulous women and agencies?? ...With far more difficulties than the ladies is the correct answer!!
It's just a fact of life, we all get emotionly hurt, it's the price we all pay for finding that right person to be in our life. Everything starts with honesty, and ends in trust, If there's no honesty during communications then there is precious little trust.... I've covered this area in another post so i wont go over it again here...
Again i will reiterate, ...this deception went on for 14 Months..... Let it be said now, ...that Mike is a very brave man indeed, for his forgiving. There are very few men here on this Forum that would still be trying to make this relationship work for him, and that includes you and myself, Chong!! He is taking a huge leap of faith, and because of other factors relating to his Christian faith, i know him as an honest man, i can and will, wish him only the very best of luck and success on his endeavors for his relationship to succeed out of the ashes he found himself in through no fault of his own...
David.....
David,
One of the problems here is there is no evidence that she did wrong. You are willing to take a leap of faith and accuse her of wrong doing without any of the facts necessary to make that judgement. We all need to be careful when we pass judgement on a situation that we do not in fact pass judgement on an innocent person. I think what is happening here is that many fear this kind of thing in their own life while wooing a woman over in China.
I think Mike is teaching us all a valuable lesson for the future. Mike didn't turn and run when he encountered the problems, he began carefully looking into the situation, he counseled with a few of his brothers here, and he dug in and found out something completely different. He found a woman that loves him and is afraid and distrustful of the agency she has employed. If I understand correctly one of the reasons she moved to Japan was because she was hiding from the agency. (Mike correct me if I am wrong on that.)
This next thing is to all of the brothers. When I came on board this site many were after Sly and his situation. I don't know anything about it and don't care to open up the issues but to a newbie who just joined the site it scared the hell out of me. I was in that read everything mode and thought man these guys can really go after each other. Well I see the same thing here. We are suppose to be the brotherhood, this isn't a tough love site, this is a support and information site.
There has been waaaaaay too much talking and giving of opinion rather than listening here. I know each one of you care but please do not speak out of hurt and fear. All of us here have been hurt, many by a wife who wanted out of a long marriage. We date a couple of Chinese girls via internet and get hurt again, maybe even go to China and get hurt and extremely disappointed. I think everyone here has good intentions but when talking with a brother who is going through difficulties we need to check our hurts in a the keyboard before entering this website.
If we really want to help a brother we at first need to ask questions before we offer any opinion and help.
Also, look at Maxx's post #250. He is dead on brothers. Amen!!!!!! Maxx :icon_biggrin:
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I think Rob and others are right, this thread has been hi-jacked enough...
So i will delete my threads from where things started to get personal between Chong and I.
I hope Chong will see fit to do likewise.
One thing that is common between Chong and myself, is that we both support and admire Mike in his endevours to make a succes of his relationship with Jessica. Mike is a good guy, and also a man of strong character and belief. If anyone can pull things together, It's gonna be Mike.
David......
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Take willy for example.He lives in Zhuhai.Is getting along great with his lady.Why?.Because he is right there right now.He isn't trying to build a relationship across the enternet.It is a totaly different playing field.When you are using the enternet.
I am not a good example at the moment. 4 unwarranted words spoken by me as a question last week has disrupted my world here at present. I will know by next weekend if we have a future. I should have stuck to the 24 hour rule.
Willy
Willy,
A good prayer might help. Maybe she has that understanding heart we all so desperately look for. Chin up friend.
Shaun
I think Rob and others are right, this thread has been hi-jacked enough...
So i will delete my threads from where things started to get personal between Chong and I.
I hope Chong will see fit to do likewise.
One thing that is common between Chong and myself, is that we both support and admire Mike in his endevours to make a succes of his relationship with Jessica. Mike is a good guy, and also a man of strong character and belief. If anyone can pull things together, It's gonna be Mike.
David......
Don't delete. Maxx or Irishman move these to a different thread. Though it has got out of hand and quite heated there are some valuable posts here we need to see.
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Shaun,...#268
I think you better go back and read again through this thread Shaun, and read Mikes comments and statements, There isn't any question that she had been dishonest, and for a very long time too. So no leap of faith on my part... The post your referring too, ...I stand wholeheartedly by.....
I basically agree with the rest of your post Shaun, there are some points that i would question as to there validity, but nothing i can see an issue with!!
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Hi Mike, sorry, I had to go back a lot of posts to see what was going on, I am happy for you brother, you and Jessica have been doing well it seems, I hope the two of you can continue to do this.
It sounds like if things keep going on this way that the next trip will be to marry her, I send you all best wishes for the two of you.
Good luck Mike although you don't seem to need it, Hahaha.
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Shaun,...#268
I think you better go back and read again through this thread Shaun, and read Mikes comments and statements, There isn't any question that she had been dishonest, and for a very long time too. So no leap of faith on my part... The post your referring too, ...I stand wholeheartedly by.....
I basically agree with the rest of your post Shaun, there are some points that i would question as to there validity, but nothing i can see an issue with!!
268??? WOW!!! I don't support that opinion at all. Your opinions are much more valuable than that kind of response. Sounds like someone might have been upset with you.
On the surface with what you have said I would agree but have a few PM's with Mike about this I have to say that Jessica was in a self protection mode not a get Mike mode. Mike had wisdom to see through that and get to the core of the issue. I wonder how many men have not tried and run from the situation like the guy who hid in his room the whole time he was in China.
Mike having a analytical; programmer type personality began looking for the root of the problem and has found a wonderful loving woman behind the issues. I wonder how many men have walked away and called her deceitful? After all, your in China, there is a major problem, you might as well figure it our before you leave. What Mike has done for the brotherhood is nothing short of miracle not in the Biblical sense. He has opened our eyes to the fact that there are two completely different sides when dealing with an agency. Most of them are all about the money and not the people. They will steal your money just as much as they will steal hers. They are an equal opportunity thief.
In this case and I can't say this for all cases she was a victim also and Mike has really opened an area for us to consider as we move forward.
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Mike ... Glad to read your latest post. :icon_biggrin: Have a safe trip home !!!
David5o ... Done as requested.
DavidE ... The story is fully documented on Jim's thread ... post # 168
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Sunday September 6....
""Hey there guys .... 24 hours ago I put up post #237, and it looks like this post will be number #295 .... wow you all had a lot to talk about concerning Jessica, and myself.""
Mike, nice to get a report. Now can you imagine how many posts there were for Jessica from her support group. Most likely a worlds record!! You both have kept life interesting here for us all. Have a great last day, and a safe trip home.
buzz
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Welcome back to the mad house mate...:huh:
Have a nice 'last day' with the lady of your dreams...:icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin:
and a pleasant trip home...:icon_biggrin:
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Shaun,
Hahaha, No, no-ones upset with me, ...well maybe Chong!!
No, I've been working on sizing some heavy cables on a project i'm designing, and couldn't get the program to do the calc's correctly. so had to do them by hand, only to find when i was nearing the end that i had the program to the wrong setting!! ....Grrrr!! Still all done now. ..haha!!
OK, you want a more detailed answer.... I think i'd better get one thing straight here before i go any further.
I have never thought of Jessica as a bad person as such, i have only tried to point out that she had been dishonest with Mike. Now it really doesn't matter her reasons, the fact is that she was, and for a very long time too. This so called self protection mode is fine, but you can't keep that up for 14 months and still be able to use that as a reasonable excuse or explanation. I have never thought or implied that she was out to get at Mike, in fact that's the first time it's ever come up.
There are ways and means for the ladies to protect themselves, against men that have ulterior motives other than for finding a wife. Somewhere along the line, after all the EMF's the IM/Cam private emails and whatever other mode of communication, there has to be some sort of trust to make that final decision on whether to meet that guy or not. Some will inevitably get hurt/burnt in the process, but that goes for the guys too..
Don't forget, all these meetings are conducted in there own country, so the moment they want out, for whatever reason, good or bad they can....and we know that they do!!
There were other options open to her also, ...like hiding her profile until such time she was ready to try again, or try to get Mikes email address, and let him know what's going on. No, not having a computer isn't an excuse, Japan like everywhere else has cyber cafe's everywhere, and if she didn't have computer skills, i bet her 16 year old daughter has. But that option requires a little effort on her part, ...and that just it, there was never any effort shown, to get to know Mike better during those 14 months!!
As you say, Mike may well be, the only man on this Forum to be able to see past all the other stuff, and get to the core issues of what's been happening and why. At least it seems as if she is coming clean, and telling the truth to Mike since he's been in the country. As it stands now, Mike had made his own decisions as an individual to overlook/forgive the dishonesty that brought him out to China, which is, as everyone says here commendable, and i'm sure he wouldn't of taken those decisions lightly, or if he couldn't of seen light at the end of the tunnel. ...None of this has ever been an issue with me, or anyone else as far as i can see!!
I think the main issues between the sides so to speak, is that there are some here, that are now condoning what she had done to Mike for all those months, and some even going as far to saying, among other things that she was honest!!! Well i'm sorry, she wasn't, and there is No getting away from that fact! even Mike has said he had to admit that.
This condoning of a particular lady, is doing nothing for the aims of this Forum who are in the main, trying to fight through this to find ways of stopping or minimising, the amount of dishonesty that's going on within the agencies and by the ladies themselves. Are we aware that ladies have been hurt and or burned?? Maybe not as much as we should be, but none the less there is rarely if any excuse that can be held up as being an OK for being dishonest in an ongoing relationship, especially an internet relationship.... where honesty is the real bedrock of any chance of success...
David....
Note... This was written while Mike had already posted his last posting, ( i hadn't read it ) there are maybe a couple of points that could be changed or added to here, but the main gist i think remains the same.....
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Okay now , David you made your point and so have other's . Now this Thread is going back to Mike and Jessica and how he feels , which looks to me ... he had all the help from us he needed ( good or not so good ) . He has worked it out , so no more need to bring any of the past happening's into this " his " Thread . Now that they are happy where their at , so let's do the same for them and enjoy what Mike and Jerssica have gained . A Relationship that will outdo many other's and I'm sure of that .
Thank you Mike for your detailed Trip and have a safe flight back home . I know you will be in some more hard times ... being away from Jessica now . But it is all for the better at the end .
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Mike ... looking at the Eyes of both of you ... I see Sparkle and Love coming from them for each other . So happy for you two .
Both of you had a up-hill climb , but I think it's down-hill from here on ( I didn't say easy ) . Good Luck in the future , we alway's have the Man above .. to guide us . :angel:
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Mike see if the resolution on the camera can be changed? Most digital's have settings and even the smallest is pretty good size. The setting you have now is 480 pixels regular web pics are 72.
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Having been on the road this past few days, it seems like I missed out on some interesting debate...and maybe a little more. Now, if I was smart, i would stay out of this...but I have never been accused of being smart.
First off, Mike, very interesting reading. It seems you certainly have your work cut out for you, but you have made the best of your situation, and made it work for you.
However, like some others here, I also have questions. These are my questions, and are only meant to offer thought..and also lets future members think about things.
I do find it strange that 14 months passed where there was little information given to you. I can somewhat accept what you said, where she did not want the agency to know her personal business. So why did she not switch over to private e-mail? Also, if she is trying to get away from the agency, and has this deep distrust of foreign men (especially Canadians???), why did she come to meet you? In one of your earlier posts, you were saying that it seemed like she was hearing a lot of information for the first time...information that you had clearly sent over EMF's. Something just doesn't sit right with me.
Also, had she switched over to private email, she would have been able to tell you about this whole Japan thing. It just seems there are more questions than answers...but this is my opinion...you are the one that is there, and you are the one that can guage how things are going.
I am glad you are able to make things work out for the better. You have certainly had an interesting trip. I hope all goes well my friend.
Martin
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Mike
I know I said things in this thread mate, but I now think that, the past (letters and agency) should now be put to the back of the burner, and NOW is the time to move on...
You will have all the letters sent both ways..before you leave, do you think it would be a good idea to (once computer is set up) put them all into a folder for her to read through??? Then with the web cam I am assuming you will set up for her, you will be able to 'go' through things in more detail with her !!!
On saying that, THERE are people in the world who are just NOT able to get their heads around this machinery...:icon_biggrin:
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Mike,
How exactly are you planning to communicate now, once she has returned to Japan?? I know you have set up a qq / cam address that you plan to use, but that isn't going to be of that much use, for full communication, where there is a language problem. You could now use the agency email address, but would have to be careful what is said about Japan. Or you could use a private email, but then you still have the language problem again??
Without going back and reading all the threads again, there was talk about the use of a translation unit between you, but can't remember if that was yours or Jessica's, or if it was yours and you were leaving it with Jessica or not.
If for whatever reason, she does have that machine at her disposal i guess she could use that to translate your emails, if your emails are written in simple English that is. Also, if she does have a means of translating your new emails, then Rob does have a point, she could in fact translate all the emails/letters you had sent previously, all be it, ....being a bit harder to translate.....
David.....
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Mike, I mentioned this before and maybe give it a try and let me know how it worked?
Login as Admin. in english, set up everything needed, including setting up an email profile. Have a second Log in for Jessica in Chinese? Then check if the browser opens in chinese or if you have to change the laug. on the computer fully to?
Go to your account on Chnlove to get the letters you know of.
Song gets the letters in english and reads them as practice for her english reading. She reads them a few times and goes back every so often and reads them again. It's her way of having english fluent. But she came up with this I didn't have to.
Jessica has to drop the pessimist ways and start helping. Learn how to get online for the communication. It's not that hard?
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Mike,
I can see what your saying about moving forward, but your past letters can and will, also give her a better insight and understnding of you, and maybe some important things may become clearer to her also.
I knew Sharron would be a least computer literate, as computers play a very big part in daily life at school in Japan. Many of the lessons and assignment are by use of computers in the classroom....
David.....
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Mike ... many of us here will pray for you , to pull through all of this coming your way . It might look like a big Mountain to climb , but one day you will reach that Summit and you will see nothing but Sunshine ahead and the Lord's Light .
You'll be alright .
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Mike...My thoughts go out to you mate, it sounds as though it was very emotional !!! This is NOT unexpected when you are leaving someone behind.
Breaking down when singing shows Jessica that you are a 'good and balanced' individual..
You have had a lot to deal with on this trip, and your leaving with 'lots' still to sort out, is probably 'why' you did 'break down' as well as being 'homesick'...
Good luck on your trip home...
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Mike, I hope your trip back to the states is a good one, I also know that the states is no longer your home, because home is in Qingdao or Japan depending on where she is, trust in God, your heart and keep both eyes open and all things will come to you.
Good luck and best wishes buddy.
Mike
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Mike,
I haven't been sure as to what to say and will usually wait until I know what I should say but, MM has it right. We'll talk later.
Shaun
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Mike, good luck and i hope everything works out like it is supposed to.
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We are all with you Mike. Safe travels, and best of luck with everything you have on your plate. We are all here when you need a shoulder.
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Welcome Back? :icon_biggrin:
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Welcome back, get plenty of rest, and don't push it for a couple of days.
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Good to have you back ... but sorry to see you apart from Jessica . I know it will be hard to digest all that just happened to you in the last two weeks . Now is the time to sort it all out and make sence of it all , having time by yourself to think without something else being thrown your way .
Anyway , real happy for you , that it went the way it did . She will be worth it ... at thee end .
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Hi Mike,
I didnt get started reading your thread till you were allready back home. It sounds like quite a trip. Allot of different opinons, but I believe that is the best way to learn is listen to the opinons of friends and go from there. It sounds like it ended good, grown men crying at leaving a woman. I know the feeling now and wish you and Jessica all the best.
Kenny
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Greetings uys,
Mike sorry i havent contributed to this but I have had internet issues my whole trip until recently.
So many things have been said to you and about your situation from both sides and I am sure I am gonna repeat some of them but here goes.
From my point of view and after all that is said and done I would forget about the 14 months and all that stuff and work solely off what you built on your trip there. Look at it as going over on spec and finding a complicated but loving woman and go from there. You know that I am as romantic as they come and have been accused of not using my head enough. Well I think in your situation that might be a plus for you. You have your faith and hopefully some romance, you are engaged and you both love each other. Really what more could you ask for. You now have a foundation battle tested as it were to build on and the faith and trust and honestly to make it happen.
I think if you can get your own life back home ie job etc, squared away and can concentrate on your relationship you will succeed. Let me say that again You will succeed. You are an honourable decent man who has achieved remarkable success based on what you had to work withh so I say to you congratulations on works well done. as Spock would say " go forth and prosper".
I truly believe that you and Jessica can make this a resounding success and prove to the world that with conviction faith and the desire to see it through anything is possible. You guys have been through hell, keep doing what you have been and I am quite sure you will end up in heaven.
Again congratuations and best wishes for a truly happy life together.
Regards,
Zhen and Brian