China Romance
All About China => Understanding Chinese Women => Topic started by: matthifre on May 15, 2009, 01:59:42 pm
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I open this thread because this is really something I think about. It has to do with a special experience I made on my last visit in China. I fall in love with a girl who already had a fiancé. But we loved each other and it was very hot.
Her fiancé is an Austrian guy and she sees him only a few times a year now. He left Shanghai back to Austria. But he will help her to study abroad.
So she says she loves me but cannot come to me because her family wants her to marry this guy. After three years she cannot change man, else she is a" bad gir".
Of course, I know, she is interested to come to Europe quick and he is the quicker way.
So my question is about "good girls". What is expected from a girl in China to be a good girl? Do the Chinese girls want or need to be "good" because else they will be banned from family and friends? Are they under pressure to behave like the family wants?
Best regards
Matthi
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I fear that this is a touchy issue and spells disaster in many ways. While family opinion is always very important in the eastern culture, there are women who will fight more for something they want (if it's not what the family thinks is best) harder than others. My biggest concern, however, is how you and this woman fell in love if she was already with another man - even if she rarely sees him. Is this something that she kept from you for a while, or were you aware of the situation and continued to pursue? It's a very sticky situation and I can see no solution where everyone can be happy about it
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I would suggest reading a book by Leslie T, Chang called "Factory Girls". It is mainly about the migrant factory workers but gives an insight on how the younger girls view family pressure in modern China.
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all i can say .. takes trust.. and faith..
and hopefully loyalty
other wise was doomed from the start thats why the call it love.. you must give all unconditionally
I would suggest reading a book by Leslie T, Chang called "Factory Girls". It is mainly about the migrant factory workers but gives an insight on how the younger girls view family pressure in modern China.
is the movie version out yet ?
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The way I see it is lose lose if she is a traditional Chinese girl. First one on Chnlove had to walk away from because of familie's disapproval of me. It sucks but nine out of ten times the family always takes number one priority. Start investing time in someone you really have a chance of getting.
China Shark Mike
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Matthi , I agree with Michael . You need to let this one go and let her go as easy as possible . You know yourself , this is not right , so why fool yourself ... that this will all end in a good way ? How can you ever feel , that this Lady will give you all her heart ? Or are you satisfied with half her heart ?
Her becoming a" Bad Girl " in her family's eyes , is to loose " FACE " and there is nothing worse , then to loose Face , be it a chinese Man or Woman . Don't pressure her to make a choice , when her family made it already for her .
It might look good , hey I took her away from the other Man , but deep down ... it's wrong . There are so many more Lady's available , why go through all this unnecessary Headache and Heartbreak ?
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I agree with Vince.. I don't think this is a very good idea to steal her from the other man.. She will be thinking about her decision for the rest of her life and wonder if she could had a better life with the other man... I think that she could have a good life with you but for her own sake and the doubt that can come in her mind I think you will have to see if there is another one for you... Keep trying brother and you will find someone new :)
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I speak from experience. What goes around comes around. Kharma. It may take a while but it does happen.
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The grass isn't always greener on the other side of the fence!
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There is a Chinese saying "Man who chase two rabbits catch neither" I imagine it applies to Chinese girls as well :-). What she is doing to him, sooner or later she will likely do to you..... Lifes too short to get emeshed with someone who is always looking for a better icecream :-)
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sorry chaps I am realy late in this but I really find this interesting so felt the need despite my better judgement to post this.
let me see if I have this right - You have this "thing" with a babe and it was "hot" and then she tell you she is a good girl and has a financee or some other unspecified relationship with a chap who is not there sees her infrequently and is going to get her to Europe to study.
So it good bye as she is a "good girl"
I think this speaks for itself.
But maybe the family really does like this chap she she sees infequently - they say "absence makes the heart grow fonder"
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I should mention that I knew about the other guide before, we had some Email-Traffic because I booked her as my tourguide.
Of course I know that she was ready to betray the other guy but I understand the circumstances.
But let's see what the time will bring, there are a lot of chinese girls...
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Once a woman starts cheating on her man it just becomes easier for her to do it the next time and the next time and the next time.
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Reading' this topic just makes me thinking about the story I "live" with Ting and her traditionnal parents...
:s
*gonna chek if really prepared to face some part of reality*
There is a Chinese saying "Man who chase two rabbits catch neither" I imagine it applies to Chinese girls as well :-). What she is doing to him, sooner or later she will likely do to you..... Lifes too short to get emeshed with someone who is always looking for a better icecream :-)
are you sure it's chinese? i thought it was frenchie one ^^'
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The "good girl" in China´s society... complex topic, like most topics over here :dodgy:
1.
Yes, women over here are expected to follow the family´s will. A "good girl" would drop any man in 10 seconds if her parents told her to, no questions asked.
Especially if it is a Western man. In many, especially more traditional, Chinese families, Western men -regardless of the social standing, age etc- are still second choice and only "bad women" would mingle with Westerners. That is national pride.
Also, "good girl" does not apply to mingling with Western men anyway.
Especially in the bigger cities like BeiJing, ShangHai, ShenZhen, ... it is perfectly socially acceptable to have one, two, three Western "candidates", play "hot/cold" with them, keep them warm for later... while at the same time, look for a suitable Chinese man.
Apart from other Westerners, you get no empathy here when you fall victim to such a woman. When Western men "play" with Chinese women, its the "evil Western sex-greedy devils", when Chinese women "play" with Western men, the "Western men get what they deserve when they think they can just come here and impress our women with their money".
So, "playing" women are not "bitchy"... they are "clever". As long as they don´t treat a Chinese man badly (which would bring shame to the girl´s family).
I don´t want to sound bitter, and I am surely not, I just like to mention, occasionally, that Chinese women do not by default have an excellent character. Yes, there are plenty of pure, pretty, smart, honest and loyal women to be found, but epecially in the bigger, Westernized cities, surely due to the influx of many wealthy expats, a group of greedy "players" has risen.
2.
If a woman TELLS you: "Oh, dearest, I would not do this or that, I am a good girl" - RUN. A truly good girl will never tell you she is a "good girl"... and a true high class girl will never tell you that she is a "high class girl".
A genuinely good person does not advertise her qualities like that, she trusts that a worthy suitor recognizes her character. One who has something to hide, however, tends to advertise qualities she does not have.
Rules of thumb:
a. If a woman tells you she is a "good girl", it means: "My innocent smile works so well, you will never figure out how badly I am cheating you behind your back. Everyone knows it but you. Don´t be surprised if my friends smile at you compassionately. It is only because they like you so much.".
b. If a woman tells you she is a "high class girl", it means: "I may wear 3$-heels and feed from the 3RMB-booths on the street. But woe you if you offer me anything below *****. You only get sex when there´s an LV bag in for me. Then I am yours forever. Until another man offers me something more expensive.".
c. If it is too good to be true - it probably is. You are 40, have a low-prestige-mediocre-income job? That´s not a shame, most of us are like that :icon_cheesygrin: The lady of your dreams is 25, a big city girl wearing plenty of fake blingbling, looks like a supermodel and tells you she is "a good girl down in her heart and wants to get out of all the big-city-life stress and just have a peaceful life with a normal, loving man"? RUN!
The slightly older women, and the more educated ones who have seen a little bit from the world, may be interested in building a true, honest LTR with a Westerner. Simply because "we" treat women better, because the Western lifestyle -the individuality, the clean air, ... - suits them better etc.
But the young, prettified, uneducated ones who only know "the West" from TV (big luxurious houses, Porsche, Louis Vuitton... many think that everyone here lives like that!), usually from lower-class families... these women have been raised to go for the "grab and run" quick win. That may be "bad" in a Western person´s eyes, but a perfectly valid and reasonable "survival strategy" over there. Remember that China has very little social security and is largely still a 3rd world country.
Cheerio and when any of you dudes is coming to ShangHai, give me a holler! :icon_cool:
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Hi Kennyg, welcome to the brotherhood, and if ever we are we will.( just speaking for me and mine )
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I think that, if 'my good girl' happens to turn into a 'bad' girl, this will make her a 'GOOD' girl in my eyes.....I think !!!!!:angel::icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin:
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Rob, you devil you :icon_biggrin:
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Welcome Kennyg ( you don't play the Sax .. do you ? ) ,
that is some very good advice , especially for the " Just starting out Guy's " . Which of course I would have to say ... your not . Unless you Copy'd and Paste it from somewhere . Anyway , enjoy our Forum .. if you not have done so already . It never hurt's to have a nother Kraut as myself here .:icon_cheesygrin:
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So true stuart my EX found that out big time.
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I think that, if 'my good girl' happens to turn into a 'bad' girl, this will make her a 'GOOD' girl in my eyes.....I think !!!!!:angel::icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin:
Well ... I " KNOW " my alway's " NICE " Girl , coming from her ... is a very NAUGHTY Girl ... like her naughty " BEE " .
I can not Lie :angel: , I like it :blush: .
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Hey I remember a Kenny from Germany on the Chnlove official forum.He had a women in Shanghia that he was talking to.Would you be the same person?
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A genuinely good person does not advertise her qualities like that, she trusts that a worthy suitor recognizes her character.
I once told my wife she was "super woman" for how he deals with adversity in her daily life and what's she's had to deal with in the past. She actually took offense to this and told me not to call her this and pointed out she is a simple woman only doing what she has to do.
I struck me as if by saying this to her was taking away some part of her character. Of course I did as she wished but I didnt expect a praise of her to be taken as an insult or alike.
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Ed , that's funny . It was okay for Qing to call me " Super Hero " , but I think I better not can her " Super Woman " either . To be on the safe side .:angel:
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Hey I remember a Kenny from Germany on the Chnlove official forum.He had a women in Shanghia that he was talking to.Would you be the same person?
You got a fabulous memory :icon_biggrin:
Yeah, that´s me. It started out really great back then - but then came the steep learning curve. It started out all great and sweet, the lady was clever enough not to show her bad side from the beginning. She really worked hard to make the impression of a reasonable, modest girl. But the more she thought she had "sacked" me, the worse it became (as I found later, largely under the influence of her friends who advised her to the "extort, drop, next" strategy).
It began with small things like: "You cannot expect me to even say thank you for travelling through whole Europe with me. I am worth that and more... and you should be happy about my company and thank ME instead.", and it ended with: "If you want to marry a high-class girl like me, a BMW X5 is a suitable proposal gift, no less.". No kidding.
Yes, I could have afforded that - but such bold greed left me speechless. The minute I told her (and I really managed to stay calm and kind!) that we could talk about her choice of car when she is my *wife*... she tried the "you don´t love and value me enough anyway"-routine. And the rest is, literally, history.
At that time, I was really disgusted - I couldn´t believe that there are women who sell themselves out like that - it was probably her way of trying to provide a better future for herself and her kid.
But now, I regard this as a rather funny episode, my Chinese pals and me laughed a lot about that. I have even kept a collection of the best quotes :icon_cool:
And I know that there are many, many good women in China, and surely in ShangHai too - I have just become more cautious.
Kenny
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Welcome Kennyg ( you don't play the Sax .. do you ? ) ,
that is some very good advice , especially for the " Just starting out Guy's " . Which of course I would have to say ... your not . Unless you Copy'd and Paste it from somewhere . Anyway , enjoy our Forum .. if you not have done so already . It never hurt's to have a nother Kraut as myself here .:icon_cheesygrin:
The sAx, no... oops :icon_cool:
Thank you, though. No, I did not c&p my post, I wrote it down on the fly when I read the term "good girl". Ever since my bad experience, I have tried to understand the Chinese "ethics" more in-depth, and it helps me a lot in private and business matters. Of course I know I am just scratching the surface and revel in stereotypes, but it still helps to have a few rules-of-thumb at hand.
Maybe I should take it as a bad omen that my first experience with a Chinese girl was already such a bad one, but I refuse to believe that this is representative - my Chinese teacher, for example, is a genuinely nice lady, shame she is married already :icon_cool:
Say, where in Germany are you coming from?
Kenny
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Hi Kenny ,
I'm from good old Kaiserslautern .
I also remember you now from the Official Forum . I'm glad you have learned from you first incounter with this " Good Girl " named MeMeMe and could laugh it off . That is pretty funny , well afterward I say it is ... not during .
Wish you better luck the next time , we did leave some of the GOOD Girl's . I think there is enough for everybody .:icon_cheesygrin:
Well thank you Kenny again for your great Post and info . Maybe you like to share some of those cute quotes you have in your collection , we should all learn from these .
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That is my ex wife, mememe. He found her pretty quick. lol
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Hi Kenny ,
I'm from good old Kaiserslautern .
Ruhrgebiet/Dusseldorf area calling :icon_cool:
I also remember you now from the Official Forum . I'm glad you have learned from you first incounter with this " Good Girl " named MeMeMe and could laugh it off . That is pretty funny , well afterward I say it is ... not during .
...
Well thank you Kenny again for your great Post and info . Maybe you like to share some of those cute quotes you have in your collection , we should all learn from these .
So true. When it started to turn out for the worse, I just kept shaking my head in disbelief. Yes, it is surely a matter of common decency to pay for accomodation, food, drinks, sweet little gifts and all that. I am kind of an old-fashioned gentleman in such things, and I am surely not cheap.
A few anecdotes? No problem.
What about this, for example?
Ms. "Yin MeMe" buys herself (yeah right, "herself",... from a 500 € salary, as I found out later, most of the nice things she had were presents from other suitors and from her ex-husband who still had "nice evenings" with her) a new 500 € iPhone, a 1.000 € digicam, a 500 € Ferragamo handbag, all in quick succession...
... and then tells me that she must stop sending me SMS or calling me ever again unless I pay for her mobile bill...
... and furthermore tells me that I should better come up with presents that are more expensive than the things she buys for "herself", otherwise she would lose her face to her friends for having a poor and shabby man... what can you say?
I also always liked the occasions whenever she "invited" me to something.
In the beginning, she would just tell me in a friendly manner to pay so that we could get on... no problem, I thought. In the later days, the "invitations" (things she always wanted to do but needed a sponsor for) became more exclusive and her manners got worse - she would become more fierce and tell me to "get out my credit card, pay and don´t look like a looney to the staff".
She also tried to convince me that if she paid ANYthing, even 2 yuan for jiaozi, she would lose her face because "only cheap sluts pay for anything for their men". So guess if she got me anything for my birthday :icon_cheesygrin:
Oh now, dear reader, you might think that it is my fault to hook up with a woman who is either rich or from a high-level family and I should consider offering her the wealth she is used to.
Oh so wrong.
She comes from a lower-class family. I didn´t mind that.
She is divorced, has a child, is 36. I didn´t mind that either.
She has a low-level job, a low salary. Who cares?
But she IS one of the women who know "the West" only from TV, she is surrounded by a lot of filthy-rich corrupt government officials in her job.
So she thinks that for some reason she "deserves" all that for herself and my poor 200m2 loft is not good enough for her (who lives in a poor quarter on half that space with 3 generations), that my 6-digit salary is "not enough to provide her the lifestyle she is accustomed to, and anyway, she knows older men who earn more money".
Wish you better luck the next time , we did leave some of the GOOD Girl's . I think there is enough for everybody .:icon_cheesygrin:
Hehe, thank you! If your precious one knows someone friend or family... remember I am still available :icon_cool: No kidding! I have found out that the "personal recommendation"-thing goes a long way in China and is often more promising than the internet-thing!
Cheerio
Kenny
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I know for sure I couldn't live with someone like this. I'm not even sure if I can stay to long even with a visit to? I've seen this many times in the west. One of the main reasons I turned to China for a woman. I say she gets this...
That´s easy to be said. In hindsight, it is also easy for me to think: "As a reasonable man, I should have heard the warning bells ring loudly".
However, the first few times I was together with her, she was truly the sweetest and nicest and most attentive woman I have ever met, with exactly the kind of qualities I would expect from a Chinese lady, so despite minor niggles, there was absolutely no reason for me to expect anything bad.
Ok, admittedly, she is by *far* the most beautiful woman I have ever seen close-up (even though she has the dressing sense of a circus pony), no kidding, so that may have blinded me a bit as well.
It was only during our last time together in ShangHai (about 1.5 weeks) that things really turned out uglier by the day. So, I did not suffer through all that crap for long, I have my pride and I know when it´s enough. Oh, and this also goes to show how quickly Jekyll can turn into Hyde.
And then, of course, this was the end.
Kenny
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That is some story , even having failed on that B**** , I would be proud of to tell . For future references , to the newbee's ... hand those Lady's over to Vince here ... he 's got the biggest BOOT of all of us .:icon_cheesygrin:
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Kenny
That's a really funny story, though I am sure at the time it would have been quite unpleasant. I think the thing to take away from it. If it's turning into a nightmare, it's time to get the hell out of there. It's stupid to persist with something that's going downhill fast. So I think you've done well in the circumstances.
Danny
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kennyg -
is this your Ms. Hyde? (have you guys seen this one yet?)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RDVbO1320I