China Romance
All About China => Understanding Chinese Women => Topic started by: Philip on October 15, 2012, 12:48:32 am
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Hearing the horror stories from Gerry, Rhonald, David E and Willy, I thought I would start a thread about relationships with stepchildren.
As my wife is going to give birth to our first child together, child-rearing is very much on my mind at the moment.
My wife's first son is just turning 15, and he is a remarkably mature and responsible young man. He goes to boarding school, after living with his grandfather (and sometimes his mother) for the past few years. He is a pretty good cook, he is very studious, quite shy, but with a good sense of humour. My wife has brought him up as a single parent, she hasn't been with him as much as either of them would have liked, but he knows she loves him, and has gained a lot of maturity from having to do things himself. I was worried at the beginning that he might feel abandoned when my wife was living with me in Hong Kong or in Chongqing, but the bond is very strong.
My wife has this clever knack with him (and with everyone else, including me) of not disagreeing, but throwing the responsibility back to him, with a bit of reverse psychology thrown in. E.g. if her son says "School work is too difficult", (something he would rarely say, by the way), my wife says "Your cousin left school at 14, he started his own business and he made a fortune. Now he has three houses and five cars. Maybe you could try that.", to which her son says, "No. He was just lucky. Nowadays, you can't get a good job without a degree".
I don't know how much his maturity is due to my wife's calm and reasoned discussions with him, or his learned self-reliance, or some innate qualities, but when I meet him, I have the luxury of getting to know him as a person, without needing to discipline him. Things may change in a few years, but I doubt for the worse.
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Fortunately for you Philip, you seem to have scored one of the few "normal" Chinese Stepsons ;D
When I was deeply pondering how to deal with Ming's monster child, I came to the conclusion that my own attitude came from the position that I felt he was deliberately being difficult/selfish/domineering.
What I need to address is the stone cold fact that his behaviour is perfectly normal for a Male Chinese child....within the realm of THEIR culture and traditions.....
This does not make it any easier to deal with, but maybe "lowers the heat" a little.
Problem is, he can be this way IN CHINA as long as he likes, and as long as Ming is in Aus with me, then it's all academic anyway. But if and when he comes to live in Aus with us, normal or not, his whole attitude and behaviour MUST change, because I know I will not be able to tolerate such an attitude within my home and within my relationship with his Mother. Besides which, we live in Aus and this is not how children behave (generally speaking !!!)...and it is certainly not how children behave in any household of which I am the bread-winner, owner and Master !!! But dont get me wrong, I am not talking about repressive discipline for the sake of the "pecking order" I am talking about real boundaries that exist in my culture against children adopting such a stance with their Mothers.
I have told Ming that I am prepared to have him live with us, to sponsor and pay for him to attend University in Perth....but.....he must somehow understand and accept that his way of doing things vis-a-vis his relationship with his Mother is not going to work and is not going to happen.
Ming is truly confused about the whole issue because she finds his behaviour to be normal...that's what she is used to....she has no conflict in her head about Son being numero uno when he lives with us and I will take the back seat...what's wrong with that, that is how it is in China.....she says......
I can see there are interesting days ahead.....anybody with experience/advice about all this stuff...please post quickly..... :-\ :-\ :-\
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David, believe me.. I talk about your "Thorn in the side issue" with Qing as well as other's in the same situation with the Little Emperors that we gladly invited into our home. We both feel for you, I know that isn't of any help to you.. but your not alone... as you know by now. Good Luck with your "Price" !
Now get this, he tells his Mother (to the Face) I listen to Arnold, but I don't have to listen to "You". hahaha
I don't know if I should laugh or slap him across the pretty face? So anyway, Qing and I talked last night in Bed... I told her... this is what you do if he ever says that again. Play his game and when he comes running for help with his Homework (English mostly), tell him I don't need to listen/help you either... period. Let him go to School without completed homework... see what the Teacher is going to tell him? Ohhhh... my Mom didn't help me! Well, shouldn't 'You" be doing your own homework? See if he doesn't get embarressed in front of the class.. to change his behavior/attitude quickly? We'll play "Mirror" and send back his shot's back to him. We'll crank on his gears... til they all are running smoother... towards our way anyway.
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David I don't know how much help I can be.My situation isn't the same as yours.But it is close.When Tristan my 4 year old was born.My wife and her family did treat him as a little emperor.I put my foot down.And told them that since Tristan was my son.He would be raised.As a American with American customs and traditions.It took a little work on my in laws part.To see what I was showing them.But at the end of the day.They knew I had raised kids before.And they turned out alright.Both of them are In college.They both have full ride scholarships.My daughter works 2 partime jobs and goes to school.Her brother goes to school and works a part time job at Sears.
In your case you are fighting centuries of tradition.So your wife.Is having a hell of a time adjusting to this.The same way that Sarge's wife had a hard time adjusting to it.Along with those traditions.They are taught where a woman's place is in the great scheme of life.And her place in the family.The male child do's rule the house in China.And the dad doe's play second fiddle to the kid.The dad is the one who teaches.The kid how a woman should be treated.
So the next time you see the little emperor.You need to lay down the law.Tell him this is Australia.And since you want to live as a Australion.You will learn to act Like a Australion.Then you lay down your rules to him.Tell him if he cant abide by the rules.He can go back to China.And be just another number.In some no name university.Then he can get a job in some shitty factory in China.Then show him the good life.Take him to the beach,Take him up in one of your planes.Take him to a university in Australia.Let him see how the average college kid lives in Australia.Then tell him hey this can be yours if and when you change your ways.This kid has already seen the shitty side of China.He now needs to see what Aussie land has to offer.
The main thing is to not let this kid.set you and your wife against each other.I know you have heard of the divide and councer tactic.That's what that kid is after.He thinks his mom has got a free ride to the promise land.and if he can split the 2 of you up.And get you out of the picture.While his mom is in the promise land.Then he has a free pass in the promised land.And can lay around all day and play video games.And brag to his friends in China how good he has it.
My daughter had the same problem.She had lived with her grandmother for years.And grandma gave her what she wanted.Till my daughter got out of control.And thought she was the fairest princes in the land.So I went and got her.on the way back I stopped at a shitty hotel.And made her stay the night there.When she got to New Mexico.I would kick the bedroom door every mourning.And tell her it was time to get up and go to work.I would take her to work.and give her the shittest job I could think of.I did this for about 2 months.every night my daughter would have a go at my wife.Then my wife would have a go at me.We did this for 2 months.Then I shipped her to my brothers house.Where she had to work.But It was a better job and she liked it.And she got to run around with her cousin.When they wasn't working.After a couple of months my brother took her back to her grandmother.And my daughter thought she was the fairest princes in the land again.
So we let her do what she wanted to do.She went and lived with her boyfriend.And his family.Every mourning the boys mother was kicking the door.Telling them to get up and go to school.when my daughter refused.The woman would drag my daughter to her job.And make her take care of elderly people.This didn't make the fair princess happy.So she would pick a fight with a family member.And how dare they make the fair princes pay rent.She didn't have a job.So after a couple of weeks the fair princes moved back to grandma's finished highschool.Then moved to the city where the university was.She was going to attend.2 days latter she has a job.And is paying rent on a room.She is renting from a lady.A couple of months latter she is in rolled in college.Is buying her own car.6 months latter she moved out of the room she was renting.And rented her own apartment.Where she has lived for the last 2 years while she is going to college.She has gotten 2 better part time jobs.And pays her own way.As far as rent food,insurance,Car payments.She won a scholarship to the university She attends.So she doesn't have to pay tuition.Or for her books.
The point of this long winded post is you have to show the kid.What is right and what is wrong.If he doe's the right thing.He gets to live in Australia.If he doe's the wrong thing.He go's back to China.And don't be surprised if he slips.and you have to remind him of the rules.If he does slip to many times.ship his ass back to China.He will be back to Australia in a couple of months with a different attitude.
As far as dealing with your wife.You are going to take a little heat.And it can be uncomfortable at times.Be up front and honest with your wife.Tell her yes her kid is Chinese.But this isn't China.It is Australia.and he has to learn to adapt to the people and the customs.Just the same way she had to.And learn to do things on his own.Tell her at no point and time is she his servant.Or his whipping post.Tell her that you love her so much.That you can't stand by and let anybody treat her bad.She will tell you it is ok if her son treats her bad.Because that is the way it is done in China.Then you just remind your wife.That this isn't China.And he needs to get along or get the hell out.
Allways remember if it isn't the end of humanity.Or the world as we know it.It probably isn't worth arguing about.Let the little things go.Don't get wrapped up in it.I know this is a stretch.for some people.But to make this work.You are going to have to learn to talk to your wife.And her son.And learn to listen to what they are really saying to you.
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Arnold I have to disagree my friend.Don't ever play into there childish games.They have no idea what is best for them.Your best bet is to lay down the law.Then show him what he looses if he doesn't follow the laws.And if he slips follow threw.By shipping him back to China.For a couple of months.
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Arnold I have to disagree my friend.Don't ever play into there childish games.They have no idea what is best for them.Your best bet is to lay down the law.Then show him what he looses if he doesn't follow the laws.And if he slips follow threw.By shipping him back to China.For a couple of months.
Maxx, he will not play any games with me and I do not allow him to do it to his Mother either. He will know soon what is best for him and where he stands in this Household.. #3 and never anything else. He's very smart for his age, but if he only use it in a more constructive way.. instead trying to use his Mom for his sole purpose. I'll have him standing straight.. mind and soul in a year or he'll see the wrath of a German and that isn't pretty.
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I wrote in another thread ( http://www.chnromance.com/index.php/topic,3591.msg61469.html#msg61469 (http://www.chnromance.com/index.php/topic,3591.msg61469.html#msg61469) )
about the little prince in residence here (NZ), and the difficulties it generates.
What I have found helpful is to distinguish between the behaviour (which is unacceptable) and the desire
of the princeling to be accepted and to belong ( which is what we all want).
I think Maxx is right - a testosterone fired confrontation serves only to make the situation worse..
the old bull and the young bull both eyeballing each other pawing the paddock, so to speak..
Sometimes there's a deeper issue.. a thing called the Oedipus complex .. so named after a
mythological greek dude who became enamoured of his mother and arranged to have his father
dispatched, so he could have mother all to himself... ring any bells???
In any event, I have found that when I loose my sense of humour in any situation, I am close
to loosing the plot and acting destructively.
So what I do is caricature the situation - a little play acting with facial expressions and lots of
body language (so lack of english cannot be used as an excuse ( wo bu mingbai)).
5 minutes of hamming it up is usually enough to get everybody laughing, and the reset button
has thus been pressed.
"A soft answer turneth away wrath" I think the good book says
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PS: Seems the "little emperor" virus has gone global...
But I agree the Chinese version is more virulent than most
:(
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"A soft answer turneth away wrath" I think the good book says
David, believe me.. having had to deal with seven Step-children and 19 Grand-children through my first marriage.. I've learned quite a bit how to and when? This is a challenge of the different kind, but I/We will prevail. Boy, this sounds like a battle cry... I hope it does go the more quiet/peaceful route of course. Actually, I only (don't tell anybody) know this one route and the "Wrath" is only a breeze in the distance. I do blow some "Hot" air ones in a while, to get my point across!
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Just to throw one out there as I have no idea about any of this. Maybe a "threat" would be toe the line or go live with your father in China? Seems to me from the stories I have read that the kid is dumped on the mother or grandparents as the father does not want much to do with the kid. Maybe an eye opener for them. Just my 2c.
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-Seems to me from the stories I have read that the kid is dumped on the mother or grandparents as the father does not want much to do with the kid.-
Jason, this might be so with a Daughter.. with a Son less likely I would think. In our case, the Father actually sends $$$ every now and then and without asking for it or making him feel he has to. He cares for him and thinks Schools here are better for his Son and he gets to learn English same time. If he only knew, Calif. Public Schools are now ranged 47th in the US., sad when we were 2nd or 3rd one time.
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Thank you Guys....as I knew, a bunch of good info. and advice came through quickly.
Apart from my specific issue, it proves that this Forum is alive and well if anybody needs some help with any subject ref. relationship issues with our Chinese lovelies !!!!....one in the eye for the doomsayers....... ;D
Anyway, I do understand that some fast footwork on my part is going to be necessary when dealing with the Little Emperor.
I am by nature a bit of a control freak....takes a lot of time and trust for me to relax around people who are close and I count my Darling Wife as one of the few people I trust to always have my back and always have my best interests at heart....over the last 3 years she has proved this on countless occasions, so it was a bit of a shock to see the instant transformation when her Son arrived here for his holiday....it was as if the last 3 years just disappeared and I became almost a stranger to her as she busted her ass to cater for every whim of this little wart. OK, it is wonderful for a Mother to show she cares for her Son, I have no arguement with that, but it went well beyong sharing and caring, it was pure Master/Slave relationship with Cultural cringe thrown in and heaps of verbal abuse on his part if she did not perform to his satisfaction in anything.
Whe the first occurrence happened....it was when he came in from a brief walk around the neighborhood....he opened the front door and stood there and shouted....she immediately rushed to the door, removed his walking shoes and put on his slippers WHILST HE STOOD THERE and waited for her to do it...needless to say...I blew up BIG TIME.
Second issue was the first evening when he wanted to take a shower...I carefully explained about the water situation in Perth (very critical and very expensive) and asked that he does not take too long in the shower...we all try to restrict our shower times to 15 minutes or so. After he was 45 minutes in the shower, I lost my cool and turned the hot water off...made him jump around a bit !!!, Ming got very angry with me and rushed to comfort her precious Little Emperor...she told me that HE was not to be subject to the same water restrictions as the rest of us...." because he should be allowed to do as he pleases"...."In a pigs ear was my response." !!!!!
Third issue...and remember Guys, this is the first 9 hours that he is in our home......As we were preparing dinner, the wart was nowhere to be seen......presumably in his bedroom QQ'ing or sulking, so we busily got on with dinner and it was only later that I found he had sat down at my PC, paged through all the info. he wanted to look at, found the files for my Flight Simulator (No this is not a game, it is a professional simulator that we use for Navigation Training and Instrument Flying practice.)...he then proceeded to play with the file structure and modify the flight model...this is OK, I do it a lot myself and as long as the new model is saved in it's own right, all the info is preserved....however he saved HIS Model OVER all my settings...so undoing 3 years work.......
When I again blew up, and screamed "what the bloody hell do you think you are doing, who gave you permission to use my PC, and many other choice words" he just looked at me as if I was a dog turd and said some rapid words in Chinese to Mum who bounced ME for shouting at him.
I wont go on any more, this was all on day one....I had 15 days of this, each one worse than the previous !!!
I dont quite know how I will cope with this child, I need some pretty strong guarantees from him and his Mother before I can commit to bringing him here for University. But I fear that if I refuse to do it I will loose my wfe in the process.
But I am prepared for that if that is how it must be...could it be that I have been set-up for this game plan from day 1 of my relationship.?????..what a ghastly thought.
Cheers...David
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I cetainly hope not mate !!, i do not think ming would do something like that
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"A soft answer turneth away wrath" I think the good book says
. I hope it does go the more quiet/peaceful route of course.
Hi Arnold...
I don't think there is any set 'how to'.... but if the wish is for a harmonious outcome
even if the current feeling is of justified rage, its surprising how things work out :)
At least that's been my experience..
There are over 50 million 'abandoned children' - including the one I have living with me
and it is not always as it seems
see http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/chinas-left-behind-children-its-not-what-you-think-8197950.html. (http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/chinas-left-behind-children-its-not-what-you-think-8197950.html.)
Another thing I did was join up with the local 'tough love' group..
Its a bit american, but was I surprised to find the numbers of harassed parents threatened and worse
by their teen age children. And this is in a respectable 'leafy' suburb :(
Thats without factoring in the complications of ethnic, cultural and language differences
So I reckon we should acknowledge ourselves for having the courage to tackle a big job..
Even, as in my case, I did not know what I was letting myself in for when I started :)
I like your (blogged) garden staircase handiwork.. I had a similar requirement, but owing to the
hugely uneven ground level, ended up framing it with treated 8*2 and filling in the
treads with super strength concrete. It may not be beautiful, but it aint going nowhere in
a hurry ;)
David K in Auckland
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I dont quite know how I will cope with this child, I need some pretty strong guarantees from him and his Mother before I can commit to bringing him here for University. But I fear that if I refuse to do it I will loose my wfe in the process.
But I am prepared for that if that is how it must be...could it be that I have been set-up for this game plan from day 1 of my relationship.?????..what a ghastly thought.
Hi David E
Been there and likewise stared that possibility in the face..
Where I got to was that I deserved to receive as I had given..
ie commitment, consideration, courtesy and concern...
And I was prepared to claim those rights to a gentle life here on the planet
My response - to far less severe provocation than you have faced - is
[1] to educate my wife on the rights of woman in a civilised country.. there are
quite a number of Chinese woman here who have come with emperor
husbands and figured that they no longer need to be treated as chattels.
I invite them round to talk to my wife ( in mandarin, so who knows what is being said)
Slowly the light dawns... she is no longer in China...
[2] To remodel the house, so that the little prince has his own flat, with his own entrance
his own kitchen, paying his own way, working out his own weekly budget.
I've made this clear to my wife that this is an essential part of his growing up in NZ
and to not do this would be a serious breach of duty as parents. And she agrees
At least in theory..
But if push really came to shove ( which, realistically it won't ), its
two tickets to China, and a life of peaceful solitude for me.
I deserve nothing less :)
And so do you...
Peace
David K in Auckland
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David E
Another thing you might like to check out is the immigration status of
your inherited "problem"
He would have come over on a visitors visa....
But if he wants to study, it would be a student visa, and the requirements
are different.. at least in NZ.. and I assume OZ is similar
To get to Uni he requires proof of a reasonable standard of English..
IELTS 5.5 or 6, and then to demonstrate good attendance at lectures, and
pass a reasonable number of his papers..
Letting these lapse could result in the cancellation of his student Visa..
( Here in NZ we had had a lot of abuse of the Student Visa scheme)..
I have known sponsors in situations like yours who have requested
that immigration monitor a specific student for compliance...
spoilt brat behaviour then becomes an issue between him and immigration,
not between him and his mother...
And of course there is the issue of Uni Fees ...not a small cost.... to be
borne by ???
Peace
David K
<< Age And Experience trumps Youth And Arrogance >>
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But I am prepared for that if that is how it must be...could it be that I have been set-up for this game plan from day 1 of my relationship.?????..what a ghastly thought.
I think it would be better to look at it as being a situation that your wife either can not or doesn't want to change her viewpoint in her relationship with her son. Maybe the Culture has been beaten too much into her that if she doesn't cherish her son, she thinks she would be labled a bad mother. My stepson many times has told my wife that she was a bad mother and that she did not love him. I know with my wife her viewpoint is that if her son is not willing to change, then he will need to move out. She has become tired of him talking down to her.
I can understand the loosing ones cool and yelling at the boy with his return look as you so aptly described as him seeing a dog as I have had the same happen to me. My new approach is to shame him into compliance. He was being lazy at night and keeping a 4 liter milk jug in his room to pee in. Since he was not emptying it, the room started to stink. My first attempt by telling him to stop did not seem to work, so I hung a sign translated into Chinese that stated that even animals do not pee where they sleep.
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Since he was not emptying it, the room started to stink. My first attempt by telling him to stop did not seem to work, so I hung a sign translated into Chinese that stated that even animals do not pee where they sleep.
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Boy Rhonald.. you deserve better than that! After waiting over two years, to receive this as payment is a big junk to swollow. Then again, we were able to fight the "Evil" Immigration People.. so this can't be too bad.
Like we have been called (or called ourselves) non-quiter's.. we must fight on or "We'll" loose Face.. get it?
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These are certainly good lessons to be learned here. Not only immigration to deal with but grown up sons as well.
I thank God that my situation is not quite the same. Just the one 'set to' and it was over for me with thanks from my wife.
Tell me please that my two adult step daughters are not going to turn the same way.
Willy
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David K
Yep...I have already checked out the mechanisms as to how he can come here for Uni. study. We have several options, including a family reunion visa when Ming gets her Permanent Residency in December. So there is no real Immigration impediment for him to come here to study.
I know that I will be up for his Uni fees as a foreign student, and this aint cheap !!!!! But I would gladly pay for him if he was a reasoable, responsible kind of Boy, in fact, if he were so, he would have a real good friend, Mentor and substitute Father in me.....but he needs to somehow convince me that he can and will change....difficult I know, but I dont want my life for the next 4 years or so being a constant battleground between me , him and his Mother...I would rather be single again and smell the roses ;D ;D ;D...At my age, I have done the hard yards and just want an easy, quiet and peaceful life with my wife and family.....and I wont compromise that for anything.
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Willy that all depends on you.If you don't play into there game.Then the game is no fun.And they will be alright.After they try 4 or 5 times to get you to play the game.Kids need to know there place in the world.Once they learn there place.They are usually ok.The main thing with a kid is be consistant.If they do something.And it isn't ok with you this time.The next time they do it.remind them that it isn't still ok.
David E Your wife needs a intervention.In the worse possible way.If she is changing the emperor shoes.That means she has done it for years.My suggestion is talk to her and explain that that kind of behavior is not tolerated in Australia.Or any other western country.And that if she wants him to succeed in life in Australia.He is going to have to learn some manners and respect.Explain to your wife.That if her son continues with this kind of behavior when he is a adult.Somebody else is going to set him straight.And it won't be a pleasent experience for the kid.
Check your PM.
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You know Maxx talking about the Shoe thing (maybe I'm luckier than I think) Qing use to do the "bring the slippers to me", but now she has her Son doing it. As soon As I walk into the door , I hear Mama yell in Chinese and surprise.. here "He" come with my Slippers. So they do LISTEN to Mom on certain things, if it include "Me" I assume. Now If he can do that for me, than he also can learn to do it for Mommy.. especially at 11 yrs. old.
David, if you have Skype.. maybe Qing could talk to your Wife and simplify your Life a little.. at least with Ming. Let me know in a PM, if you wish.
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Yep...I have already checked out the mechanisms as to how he can come here for Uni. study. We have several options, including a family reunion visa when Ming gets her Permanent Residency in December. So there is no real Immigration impediment for him to come here to study.
I suppose I am showing my nasty side ( for a good cause tho) in suggesting
there might be a way for Immigration to say No, rather then you having to carry the can ;)
.At my age, I have done the hard yards and just want an easy, quiet and peaceful life with my wife and family.....and I wont compromise that for anything.
Likewise... But, as they say " The show ain't over until the fat lady sings her song "
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Thinking aloud... Seems that while your difficulties are with young 'McHorrible',
you have time before he returns to vandalise your life, to work with your
lovely wife.
Here in NZ there are specific teams that deal with asian issues
within our district health boards.
I've attached a pdf presentation of one such group.
Meanwhile maybe you could persuade your wife/you to attend such a seminar
( explain that it is so her son can have a better life in OZ ).
They are VERY familiar with the little prince fiasco, and being mandarin/english speakers
and somewhat distant from the drama, they can be very helpful.
They say you can get the Girl out of China, but you will never get the China
out of the Girl. But this might help :)
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Tell me please that my two adult step daughters are not going to turn the same way.
Willy
Can't see that happening Willy..
Underneath that combative cockney front ...there is a kind heartedness...
And that's what they will spot... and appreciate, in some oriental fashion
:)
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Whe the first occurrence happened....it was when he came in from a brief walk around the neighborhood....he opened the front door and stood there and shouted....she immediately rushed to the door, removed his walking shoes and put on his slippers WHILST HE STOOD THERE and waited for her to do it...needless to say...I blew up BIG TIME.
David, when I mentioned the shoe incident to my wife, her reaction was, "He's not her father!". In other words, this might be the respect paid by a daughter to a father, but there's something wrong somewhere if a mother is commanded by her own son. It's not very Confucian, even though the woman is paying respect to a "man" (read "stunted adolescent"), so how did we get to this state of affairs? It's not even very Oedipal - Oedipus wanted to have sex with his mother, not make her his slave. It's a little Maoist with regard to the place of women, mixed with the only child little emperor syndrome.
My only advice to you comes from years of teaching four and five year-olds (quite apt considering the childish behavior of your step-devil). If you can get on roughly the same page as your wife re. discipline (privately, discussing the hypothetical permutations of his behaviour), then I would give him some simple stark choices regarding the consequences of his behavior in the future.
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.Kids need to know there place in the world.Once they learn there place.They are usually ok.
Yes Maxx kids have a place in the world - but it is definately not in my world. I feel much happier without having the problems of ever having had kids to worry over.
Willy
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Besides which Maxx, he has me to worry about...LOL ;D ;D
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That might scare the daylights out of some people Rob. ;D
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I am curious how many of you come from a divorced family?Myself growing up it wasnt pleasant.I guess I am trying to look at it from their perspective .It doesnt mean that they are right doing this but there may be some underlying problems.Could be attention or many things.Maybe something that can be worked out between your wife and yourself or counseling?Most of my friends have had the alpha male experience right here where their son thought he was an adult in his teenage years.I had to correct my son for that.That was our only argument.I am just throwing it out there as a reason for the disruption
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I am curious how many of you come from a divorced family?Myself growing up it wasnt pleasant.
Good question Ron.
I for one was left father-less at one/two years old (another woman). I lived either with a Step-dad or my Grandpa till I was 14 and done with School back in the sixties. After that I had build a good size wall around me already and was very shy, even into my early twenties. After I got married at 25, I have drop-kicked all my Luggage of my youth and was never angry at my Mom or anyone for that matter. On the other hand, my only "Real" brother (One yr. younger) to this day.. is still very angry and has not forgiven anyone for what happened in his years as a Child. So bad, I could not get close to him.. and I've try'd. I now think, this made me a better Person in a funny way.. as I would not allow this happening to my marriage or children and this is turning a minus into a positive.. without a Shrink. Us western Folks certainly have the Teen problem and it has gotten worse year by year, because of the Family structure is missing in so many Families nowadays due to the bad Economy. The Chinese Boy Emporers is of course a whole new other reason since the one child rule came to be and now throw in some of our western ways and you have an even harder outcome to face. Oh Joy, yes.. but looking for a chinese sweetheart.. we (I think) never looked looked further then... at "Act" two like David K said. This thread can give others in the same difficult situation some good insights/pointers to help them at least somewhat, when in the process can really put a damper on a Newbie just starting out. But, isn't it always better to have some of the high hurdles in front of you early on.. better then later?
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My problems isn't with the son, he and I see things almost the same. Mine is with the daughter and granddaughter. ::)
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Actually, one of the issues is that the little emperors often come from divorced families..
In most parts of China, divorced woman are discriminated against
In most parts of China unmarried woman over 30 are discriminated against
In most parts of China unmarried woman with children are even further discriminated against
... Usually the money promised as part of the official divorce settlement never come through....
So its off to the big city sweat shops for mother... and grandparents for the child...
There are 50 million such cases (officially) - see my previous URL for more details...
And not unsurprisingly, some of these ladies see CHNLOVE as the only way out...
So its off to the photoshop bureau to have those curves enhanced ( or erased )
Along comes the Western Hero - whether it be from unbrindled lust, loneliness or the
desire to rescue.. and before long long our hero has fallen in love with photoshopped pixels...
Only later do we realise what the phrase "responsibility to the family" means: ready made offspring,
and then its too late :-)
So in addition to the normal Chinese male arrogance, OUR little emperors have truckloads of guilt to
use as weapons in the combat zone.....
YOU are responsible for the divorce so YOU are responsible for depriving me of a family
YOU have deprived me of a fathers love which would have made my life fulfilled
YOU have abandoned me to work long hours, when you should have been BOTH
mother and father to me...
MY friends come from a WHOLE family but I do not and YOU are responsible..
The list goes ever on, that being the nature of guilt, which can only ever be used
as a weapon.. :(
Probably the best example I can give is the movie/DVD "The Last Train Home"
made by a canadian chinese filmmaker... worth a look... before you leap :)
So the old saying "Beware of strangers bearing Gifts" becomes
" Be wary of divorced Chinese beauties bearing Children"
Caveat Emptor
:)
David K
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I think this is a very good post in the forum.It is nice of the married men to share this with us.As in everything there are ups and downs as we have seen.It makes for good discussion and learning.
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I think we can over analyze the cause of this and loose sight of the solution. I don't care if it is feelings of abandonment or spoiled grand child syndrome, the jest of it is that the mother is the enabler of the continued bad behavior. She was so overly protective of the little devil. Any horrible thing he did (and there were very many) was excused away by the phrase "he's just a little boy". well that shit does not sit well with me, especially after he entered his teens. His behavior could be corrected if she would just try. But she did not do anything to discipline him until it was too too late. What I asked Jing many times was if she could not be a stern parent then release control of the boy to me. In a few years I would give her back a good son, well mannered and a young adult.. But she would not have any part of it. She was afraid that I would be too tough on him. (her definition of tough love is to take away his play station for a couple of days). I blame her as much as him and the grandparents. I think up until the early teens a boy can be fixed but you need to convince her to step aside so you can do your job.
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My wife told me that her son needs a father to discipline and teach him. We always refer to him as our son, not her son (though, if he is being bad, he is 'her' son). He's still young - 7, so he's not too annoying yet. My wife has a hard time getting him to do homework or pay attention sometimes, but he is a lot like I was at that age. He's very imaginative and a little quiet. He wears glasses, and my wife always scolds him for sitting too close to the tv or computer, but I let it slide - he just can't see good enough. When he comes to Canada, we can get him to a real eye doctor.
I worry about his first few years in Canada. My parents divorced when I was 9, and we moved around a lot. It was not good for my social skills. Our stepfather was very overbearing and strict, but to this day, I love him, respect him, and consider him more of a father to me than my real father ever was. I hope I can be as good a father as he was. My daughters turned out real good, so I think I'll do fine with a stepson.
The language barrier will be the biggest hurdle. I wish we were all together now, so I could really get down to teaching them English properly.
So, no little emperor yet. We'll see.
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My parents were together until they were parted by the death of one of them. This built my character to what it is today.
I long, long ago decided that it was far more fun for a man to be single and available than to be tied to one woman and maybe later divorce. Most people I know have been divorced at least once but me never so far and I hope I never will be.
I look to my parents experience of staying together till one of you dies. But then I am closer to that than most on here.:-X
Willy
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"My wife told me that her son needs a father to discipline and teach him. We always refer to him as our son, not her son (though, if he is being bad, he is 'her' son). He's still young - 7, so he's not too annoying yet. My wife has a hard time getting him to do homework or pay attention sometimes, but he is a lot like I was at that age...
The language barrier will be the biggest hurdle. I wish we were all together now, so I could really get down to teaching them English properly.
So, no little emperor yet. We'll see."
Neil, your situation is very similar to mine. My GF has a son who is 7 years old. We plan to get married in a few months and then it's the visa application. He speaks mandarin and japanese since he lives with his mother in Tokyo. I hope he will adapt well to Canada and I hope he will have no problem learning english. And yes she told me alsothat he needs a father to teach him and discipline him... to be a mentor in a way. I'm 51 and it worries me a bit to have that role again. My daughter is now 18 and at university. I have to start all over with a young kid... he is ok though. I hope I will do well.
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I'm 51 and it worries me a bit to have that role again.
Now djal, 51 is still young.. just ask your Girl. I'm 59 going on 60 soon and having a 11 yr. old is actually a challence I welcome with my wife's help of course. Keeps us young ourselves... wouldn't you say so? Can't put that all on the wife's you know.
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What I asked Jing many times was if she could not be a stern parent then release control of the boy to me. In a few years I would give her back a good son, well mannered and a young adult.. But she would not have any part of it. She was afraid that I would be too tough on him. .... I think up until the early teens a boy can be fixed but you need to convince her to step aside so you can do your job.
For another POV try
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/28/AR2006012800062_pf.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/28/AR2006012800062_pf.html)
:)
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Thanks for the link and suggestion but....I would not go as the tough love programs mentioned in the article . My methods are more firmness and regulations with a dose of explanation of why there are rules and that you really love them even though your being an asshole at the moment.
I have 5 kids of my own and have raised two daughter that belonged to my ex from her first marriage. That's a total of 7 kids that were placed in my charge. It was not easy but they are all , each and every one, productive members of society. And not one of them ever threatened me or their mother and were never taken away in handcuffs. I know how to raise kids and do it right but I must have a chance and support from the rest of the family.
Without Jing's over protection and grandparent interference her son would have been in his second year of college now. But instead he is working as a delivery boy for a pizza hut and only one strike away from a long prison sentence.
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Thanks for the link and suggestion but....I would not go as the tough love programs mentioned in the article .
SNAP: I have raised 4 before I met my "Chinese Takeaway", much of it as a single parent....
One clung like glue to his mother, totaled 6 cars and accumulated thousands in traffic fines..
So we are of a mind about discipline and consequences...
Presently my lovely wifes son (coming on 22 ) still thinks he is in China and has a servant called mother..
This is changing, but it takes effort and planning on my part... with, crucially, support from my wife
who also can't find it easy :)
Peace
David K
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Tough love does work I have done it with my daughter and son as long as your wife will not go against you and the family stays out of it and not undermine your work.Otherwise it will be you fighting a losing battle.But I am sure you are already aware of all this
Ron
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This from a teacher: Kind of relevant to little emperors too.....
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Northland (New Zealand) College Principal John Tepene has offered the following words from an NZ judge who regularly deals with youth.
"Always we hear the cry from teenagers, 'What can we do, where can we go?'
My answer to this:
Go home, mow the lawn, wash the windows, learn to cook, build a raft, get a job, visit the sick, study your lessons and after you've finished, read a book.
Your town does not owe you recreational facilities and your parents do not owe you fun.
The world does not owe you a living, you owe the world something.
You owe it your time, energy and talent so that no one will be at war, in sickness and lonely again.
In other words grow up, stop being a cry baby, get out of your dream world and develop a backbone not a wishbone.
Start behaving like a responsible person. You are important and you are needed.
It's too late to sit around and wait for somebody to do something someday.
Someday is now and that somebody is you !"
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Amen to that :)
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..... but Mr. Judge! That sounds like "Work"... I don't even make my own Bed! Mommy does that, she wont let me do anything!
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On this topic, all I can say is, I am thankful I did not get anyone pregnant 2 years ago!!!
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On this topic, all I can say is, I am thankful I did not get anyone pregnant 2 years ago!!!
You had a lot of possibilities then? ::)
Willy
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On this topic, all I can say is, I am thankful I did not get anyone pregnant 2 years ago!!!
You had a lot of possibilities then? ::)
Willy
No, just one possibility.
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Another thought I had whilst in the shower. Where else do good ideas come from? What is going to happen to these kids when they have kids? Ever heard of the phrase "just wait till you have kids and they act like you, what will you do then"? What will the young females in China be like in a couple of years or from a country that the boy has emigrated to? Also with skype and QQ from other countries talking to the girls in China and telling them that you do not have to bow down to a boy like he is the messiah in everything you do. China is becoming more westernised and as they learn some western ways like girls and boys are actually equal they will not put up with the spoilt little brat that is now trying to court them as a potential suiter. It may take a generation or two but I can see it happening. Then there will be some very lonely men out there without their mummy to do stuff for them.
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The Independent confirms what we have known all along:
how thoroughly the only-child subjects live up to their bad reputation.
Caveat Emptor :)
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/onechild-policy-chinas-army-of-little-emperors-8446713.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/onechild-policy-chinas-army-of-little-emperors-8446713.html)
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They were known as China’s “little emperors” – the offspring of one-child families born after the country’s draconian family planning policy was introduced in 1979. They became the “spoilt generation” of teenagers who didn’t experience the joys and heartache of sibling rivalry or share and share alike – at least this was the simplistic stereotype of the singleton children born in modern China, based on little more than anecdote and hearsay.
But now, scientists have produced the first convincing evidence to suggest that the one-child generation of China has indeed become a rather maladjusted lot.
The one-child policy came about after a rapid growth in the Chinese population in the 1950s and 1960s. It was strictly enforced in urban areas, with reports of forced abortions and sterilisations, as well as heavy financial and social penalties for those who dared to transgress the one-child law.
Chinese authorities claimed the policy was a great success, preventing more than 250 million births between 1980 and 2000 and helping to set the country on the right demographic track for its spectacular economic growth.
However, more than 30 years after it began, an unintended consequence has emerged; it has fundamentally changed the psychology of young Chinese men and women, scientists said.
Chinese children born after the policy have grown up to become less altruistic and trusting, more timid, less competitive, more pessimistic and less conscientious than the Chinese who were born just before the policy, they claimed.
The study has broken new ground by analysing the attitudes of young Chinese adults using games designed by economists to test behaviour and intentions, such as whether the subjects are likely to share something with a stranger or are ready to trust someone they do not know.
When the scientists compared two age groups born a few years before the policy was introduced, with two age groups born just after, they were surprised to find such marked differences in the kind of personality traits which influence social relationships, that could have important ramifications for China’s future.
“We find quite large impacts. Those who are the only children as a result of the policy are considerably less trusting, less trustworthy, more risk averse, less competitive, more pessimistic, less conscientious and possibly also more neurotic,” said Lisa Cameron, of Monash University in Melbourne, Australia. “These behavioural impacts could have economic consequences in addition to the more obvious social implications.”
“For instance, we find that those born under the policy are less likely to be employed in risky occupations, such as self-employment, freelancing or the financial sector. So it may be that the one-child policy generation will be less entrepreneurial,” she said.
The study analysed 421 individuals born just a few years before and a few years after the 1979 policy, which resulted in a dramatic decline of large families. In 1975, just 27 per cent of Chinese families consisted of only one child, whereas it was nearly 91 per cent in 1983.
The scientists asked the volunteers, now in their 20s and 30s, to carry out a series of economics games designed to test features of their personality, using real money as an incentive. The “dictator game” measured altruism, the “risk game” tested boldness and the “competition game” looked at rivalry.
“Economic experiments have the advantage of allowing the researcher to observe particular, well-defined types of behaviour,” Dr Cameron said.
“Experimental participants are also incentivised with money, the amount of which depends on the decision made in the experiment, which, experimental economists argue, provides a greater motivation for participants to reveal their true preferences,” she explained.
What became clear, the scientists say in their study published in the journal Science, is that one-child offspring suffer from what they term “sibling deprivation”, meaning that a lack of brothers or sisters appeared to make them more self-centred, less co-operative and less likely to get along with their peer group.
Previous work on one-child families in the West, where parents have largely chosen to have just one baby, have found little differences in behaviour between them and the offspring of larger families. What was different here was the ability to look at a whole society where parents were coerced into having no more than one child.
This was like “a huge natural experiment” that allowed the scientists to distinguish between growing up as an only child in a one-child society, and being an only child in societies where parents had the choice, Dr Cameron said.
On paper, singleton children should have an advantage in that they have the full attention of their parents and do not have to compete with siblings. But, in practice, the findings suggest that singletons may have missed out on the rough and tumble and give and take of growing up with other children of about the same age.
As one commentator noted: “Perhaps the biggest surprise of the study is how thoroughly the only-child subjects lived up to their bad reputation.”
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In recent times the authorities have realised that the continuation of the one child policy may have to be relaxed not because it is unworkable but simply because with a population now living longer they require more persons working to enable better pensions to be paid.
But the one child policy itself was flouted so much anyway.
If a couple are both the result of one child families then they can have two children.
As they are becoming richer more people can afford to pay the penalties of having two or more children.
The ruling does not apply to those from rural areas. This results in the fact that many couples in the cities are originally from the rural areas and they retain their living status as from those areas. As a result children are registered in these locations but they end up being parted from families living in cities as their children have to go to the school in the area they are registered, unless the parents pay for them to attend city schools privately!
Come school holiday times the number of kids in our complex must double as they come back to the city to spend time with parents.
But there again my wife has three children and the son has the traits of a 'Little Emperor even though he was bought up with siblings. The two girls are great to have stay but he is not welcomed at anyone family members home!
Willy
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The little emperor syndrome has wider implications than just China.
In New Zealand we have a bone headed immigration policy* that allows
well heeled people into NZ provided they bring their loot with them.
And guess what, most of these 'entrepreneurs' are from China.
They bring with them the very same exploitative business practices that made them
rich in China, and they bring with them the little emperors....
So we now have:
Little business springing up that offer half the legal minimum wage, usually to other immigrants
A whole "high fliers" floor on the local casino that is primarily for asian gamblers, and has a record of drug money laundering
Large numbers of pale faced, cigarette smoking young males, with late model fast (lowered) cars that hang about in the city center, who wouldn't dream of lowering themselves to working for a living...
( they have a built in ATM.....Ask The Mother.. )
Because I do (voluntary) English language tutoring, I see a lot of this first hand.
Its not all bad - the Chinese crime rate is lower than the national average, and thanks
to my lovely Mongolian/Chinese wife, our home is now a place of harmony..
But decisions made in China ripple throughout the rest of the world
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* Not as bone headed as the UK tho..
11 Million "imports" who are delighted to have a state that "cares" for them :-)
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But decisions made in China ripple throughout the rest of the world
Maybe not in my lifetime but others on here will see that the influence of China, having become the biggest economy in the World, will have an effect on the whole of civilisation.
They have been able to achieve this due to the're political system. Western governments are now trying to impose austerity measures to relieve there burden of debt and at the same time trying to appease the voters. China has not achieved this debt, the western world owe their financial survival to China who buys up the debts of democracy.
Willy