China Romance
All About China => Understanding Chinese Women => Topic started by: Smaug on January 24, 2013, 05:01:03 pm
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I posted this over in the Newbies forum, but after looking around, this seems like the more appropriate place for it.
Thanks in advance.
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I'm an American guy, 36. My girlfriend is Chinese, 39. She's a divorced mom of a 9 year old boy. According to that other thread, she's a "left-over" woman. (such a mean thing to say about a human being!) We work for the same company. I'm still in America, she's still in China. She's very private about her personal life, and especially about me. One day, she will move here with her son to be with me. For now, we text chat every day, and have a phone call once or twice a week.
We have a huge difference in opinion about jealousy. Today, she told me a big boss in our company said he heard she was a single mom, said he respected her for raising her boy all alone. Then offered to help find her a boyfriend. She laughed and said "OK." Not taking it seriously.
I was pretty insulted, I asked her: "Why didn't you just tell him that you are not single, but thanks anyway for the offer of help?"
She said: "Aren't you happy that people like me?"
I said: "Yes. Professionally, and in a friendly manner. But when they start getting involved in your love life, I don't like it any more."
She said: "You should be happy that people like your girlfriend. If you are jealous about this, it shows that you lack faith in me."
I said: "The jealousy, I cannot control. I do trust you to do the right thing when interested men approach you. But I don't like the fact that you are not trying to discourage them from approaching you, and that you let people continue to think you are single."
She said: "Am I supposed announce to the world that I have a boyfriend then?"
I said: "No, but when it comes up that you are single, you could at least correct them, and CERTAINLY not accept offers to help you find a boyfriend! Otherwise, what am I, a ghost?"
She then told me that if I wanted to go out with a female colleague, she would not have a problem with it, as she trusts me absolutely. But that if I were unfaithful, she would never forgive me. (she didn't mention how she would feel if I invited her to my hotel room when she was drunk and sad and had a crush on me....)
She said she was very very sad and hurt, and she will go to bed. (it was 1 AM for her)
To me, this idea of denying one's jealousy because I have so much trust in her faithfulness is almost insane. It sounds like something from an idealistic book on love, not reality.
I told her that if our situations were reversed, she would probably be jealous, no matter WHAT she is saying now. She said absolutely not, because she trusts me. I sugggested that unless she is VERY different from every other woman who has ever been interested in me, I doubt it. Jealousy is illogical. It comes from love (or maybe insecurity?) from the person who is jealous, but to the other person, it is just a nuisance.
I hope there are a lot of English-speaking Chinese people who can tell me whether this is cultural, and I should get used to it, or if it is a mater of personal opinion only.
Now, we are both wondering if there are too many cultural differences for our relationship to succeed? Or is this not cultural at all, and just a matter of our personal viewpoint?
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First question. Have you been to China to see her face to face?
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If she doesn't have a ring on her finger, she's probably keeping an eye out for someone better suited to come along. Don't get me wrong, I'd be jealous too, and this situation would put a huge strain on the relationship.
Keep in mind that she is in China. Different country, different customs. She literally can't say no to her boss without losing face. What she did was give her boss great face. She might get a promotion if she hooks up with whoever he happens to choose for her.
She didn't have to tell you about it - probably shouldn't have. That said, you have every right to be jealous and hurt. Make sure she knows how you feel.
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First question. Have you been to China to see her face to face?
Yes. Went and stayed with her and her son for three weeks. It was wonderful. Toured Guangzhou, played with her son, did a lot of hiking.
So what about it guys, is her view on jealousy typical Chinese? Please ask your mates for me if you don't know.
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First question. Have you been to China to see her face to face?
Yes. Went and stayed with her and her son for three weeks. It was wonderful. Toured Guangzhou, played with her son, did a lot of hiking.
So what about it guys, is her view on jealousy typical Chinese? Please ask your mates for me if you don't know.
The others are wrong. You have no right to be jealous. She wanted to tell you as she probably wanted you to know everything . She did not feel it necessary to keep secrets from you.Maybe her boss said it lightheartedly maybe he was serious. But she told you about it. And you went off into a jealous rage!
Chinese women do not have to get involved with a Jealous foreigner. There are enough of them and just downright bad husbands in China. If I was her I would serious think twice about a relationship with you.
She looked to you as someone she trusted and look what it gave her. You talk of 'one day she will move here with me' Can you imagine what she is thinking today about that. If that is his reaction with thousands of miles between us what will it be if i was at arms length in a strange country.
Chinese women are used to be ill treated in China by men, they have been for years but they are not looking to jump out of the pot into the fire.
It will be your jealousy that will kill this relationship. Maybe it already has. I hope I am wrong but unless you can control your jealousy then any relationship is doomed.
Willy
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Wow. That is surprising.
Willy, just think back to when you and your wife were dating, already seriously. Before she told her coworkers there about you.
Someone at her company says he will help her find a guy. She says OK. That wouldn't make you feel like dirt?
If you are saying that wouldn't bother you because of the faith you have in her at that point, then I don't believe you. (no disrespect)
I hope you are wrong too.
Nevertheless, you are the second person to tell me this, so I must heed your warning and control my jealousy. It is easier said than done though, when you care about someone.
She has been jealous a few times as well, for example one time I told her I admired a female coworker for her organizational skills. One other time for something similar.
You said in another thread that you are older now, over 60. I am 36, so maybe this is something I can only beat with age and wisdom. I'll try my best though...
Thanks for your honest thoughts on the matter.
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Jealousy? What I think of it?
I was married to my first Wife almost 30 years and her jealousy (Latin/Spanish) went as far as spreading rumors about me having had two (2) affairs. This alone could have killed our relationship if it wasn't for my patience/understanding that she was twelve years older than me.
It is like David E. said.. it is Poison in a Relationship/Marriage anyway you look at it!
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Wow. That is surprising.
Willy, just think back to when you and your wife were dating, already seriously. Before she told her co-workers there about you.
Someone at her company says he will help her find a guy. She says OK. That wouldn't make you feel like dirt?
If you are saying that wouldn't bother you because of the faith you have in her at that point, then I don't believe you. (no disrespect)
But then at that time I was not still living with my wife and had a child not yet a year old!!!!
In my opinion you have no right to feel like dirt! Your not free to feel like dirt!!!
I think if you have provided that information in the first place then you would have probably received different answers from most.
Willy
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Well Smaug, it is usually the woman that expresses her jealousy, and expect the man to express remorse for even mentioning another woman. Your lady is obviously not a 'Traditional Chinese Woman'. I believe that this means that the woman is totally focused on one man. My previous lady was a very jealous woman, but I believe this was an insecurity issue,
I guess what you need to do is clarify your position with your friend, without you being defensive. All you can do is tell her how you feel about the situation, and that you want her in your life. Hopefully she will also express how she feels about you. In my experience, Chinese women like honesty, as they do not usually get it from Chinese men.
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Thanks Peter.
We have worked through this issue, by having a few hours' worth of chats and emails, and a 2.5 hour phone call this morning.
We each understand the other's point of view. She agreed to politely decline any future possible matchmaking offers in honor of my feelings. I said I will try to be less jealous and more understanding of cultural differences, such as "Holiday Words." (promises made in certain situations with not much possibility of being followed up on.)
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Thanks Peter.
We have worked through this issue, by having a few hours' worth of chats and emails, and a 2.5 hour phone call this morning.
We each understand the other's point of view. She agreed to politely decline any future possible matchmaking offers in honor of my feelings. I said I will try to be less jealous and more understanding of cultural differences, such as "Holiday Words." (promises made in certain situations with not much possibility of being followed up on.)
You really think that is so? The proof will be in the eating. A Chinese person, man or women will tell you what they think you want to hear, not always what they are thinking deep down.
Your problem will be getting her into the USA. That is going to take you many a year or longer. Others on here have been waiting for a long long time.
In your case the US authorities will, I am sure, be looking at your background. A man still married and living in the same home with a baby that was was unweaned when you started on this relationship! You need to regulate your life in the USA before going any further.
You need to move out of that home into one on your own and get a divorce. You will need to buy a home (at the same time as supporting your child).
A Chinese women will not be wanting move into a rented home. A Chinese woman may be in love with a guy but practicality comes first. She does not take on marriage to stand still she needs to improve otherwise she will lose a great deal of face in China. And marriage is has to be.
I have heard it suggested to women that they can have a good life if they both work in their new countries. An average Chinese woman does not want to work to help support a man's lifestyle she wants to work to earn money, usually that is her money with her choice of where it is spent. I am sure that most on here who have wives who are working will confirm the wives keeps her money to do with it what she wants, but it is not to support a household unless a one off emergency occurs.
You may be well into planning your future but do not forget you have a lot of past to resolve at this time.
Willy
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[I have heard it suggested to women that they can have a good life if they both work in their new countries. An average Chinese woman does not want to work to help support a man's lifestyle she wants to work to earn money, usually that is her money with her choice of where it is spent. I am sure that most on here who have wives who are working will confirm the wives keeps her money to do with it what she wants, but it is not to support a household unless a one off emergency occurs.
This I agree with Willy , Sujuan has her own income to spend and I run the house , that being said she also spoils me totally even while she is back in China till after the New Year with her girlfriends coming this way I now have more Shoes , Suits, Slacks and tops than my wardrobes can hold let alone me wear ,also the odd $50 Dollars or 100 yuan note that I find in my glovebox , there are only 7 days in the week along with her employees here shouting me dinner a couple of times a week , because I will give them a lift or even do an airport pickup if someone is arriving back to Melbourne , that being said , I think in a few weeks I will be busy with all returning after their holidays in China for the New Year regards Robert .
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Your right Robert. They like to spend. But as you say they like to spend on what they want to spend it on, not what they HAVE to spend it on.
Willy
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Are you guys sure they're all the same?
Maybe you're right, but it seems like you're lumping every woman of Chinese ethnicity into the same boat.
My woman doesn't like to spend money AT ALL, unless it will get her more money. When she does, she only likes to spend it on what is necessary. Today, she told me she went to the post office to send me a photo album. Said the price was 200 RMB, and she only had 100 RMB on her. Now, she is going to check FedEx, DHL, and UPS to make sure they're not cheaper before spending the 200 RMB to send the 100 RMB album, hehehe.
She likes her simple life.
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But Smaug i do think your right that there is much grouping done here on
the forum.
"Grouping"? That sounds like a bad word in the sense it is used here. We've been through this before, being called.. that is what we do. There are no more than 15 members that write on a steady bases, answering questions for newbie's. These pretty much had similar experiences along their journey. If these now of course answer with 90%/95% one way on somebody's question... does that make it wrong? Really, if I am put into a class like that or looked at as a "Groupy".. I'd rather not be here.
Smaug problem (and he does have one) is out of the ordinary for sure, so of course he will take not so kind comments... but they are meant in a good way... even if it seems we the Groupies like to shoot down People. If he can handle all that is on his plate, great for both of them and we can't be any happier for Smaug... but what are the chances to succeed? If he is thinking outside the box and not really wrapped up in dreamland, so more power to him!
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Are you guys sure they're all the same?
Maybe you're right, but it seems like you're lumping every woman of Chinese ethnicity into the same boat.
My woman doesn't like to spend money AT ALL, unless it will get her more money. When she does, she only likes to spend it on what is necessary.
Smaug, do you realise that your statement basically implies the same that Willy has mentioned
Your right Robert. They like to spend. But as you say they like to spend on what they want to spend it on, not what they HAVE to spend it on.
Willy
First off, since you do not have her living with you in the USA, you have no idea what her strategy will be. I can tell you that with my wife, I have to pay the household bills. She does buy her own groceries since she is partial to Chinese food, while I am not to fond of her cooking. So I buy food for my son and me while she buys food for herself and her son. But out side of this she saves and her major purchases is for her part-time business, which I seem to also help in the cost but never see any return on investment.
And as to what Arnold stated about grouping - If 8 out of 10 form members state that this is how their own wife behaves, then it is a statistic not a grouping. Most of the members here have married women from the same cultural age group, so most women from the same age group will share similar behaviours. Sure there are the outliers and exceptions, but our advise is not negative but pro active. It is like saying that if you plan on travelling the Guandong province in Springtime, then make sure you bring a rain jacket. I did and when I went and meet Chong in Kaiping, I wish I also had brought a fleece jacket because I was dam cold that trip.
Smaug, as to asking my wife what she thinks of your Jealousy question, I would like to help out, but her English is not yet strong enough to fully understand the incident to give her view point. She does mention though, many times about other Chinese ladies that she has meet here, that if they have a good grasp on English, but a low end job, or have been living here many years with still bad English skills, that the person has lost face. Yes as China Bound has mentioned, you should take all advice with a grain of salt, just like every time I have an injury or illness, I have to take some Chinese medicine (the few times she goes out of her way to buy me things) just one way a Chinese woman will show she cares. But jealousy issues, seems to me that my wife is always measuring herself against other immigrant Chinese ladies that losing face is the more important measuring stick. I don't know how the other members can say about their own wife's approach to face or jealousy.
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Ming's approach to jealousy.........
Whenever we are in the company of other people, especially where there are women...both Western and Chinese, I can tell she is always weighing up my reactions to them !! She would never come straight out with a comment on jealousy, but I get many "trick" questions about hair styles, dress sense, size of boobs etc ;D ;D ;D...to which I always respond by reinforcing that she is the best of them all !!!!...it saves a lot of angst. I know she is fiercely jealous of any potential threats to her position from other women.
My approach to jealousy..........
I am content if other Men around us pay her attention....but she is free to do what she wants. If she decided to go off with another Man, then that is her business....I cant stop it and it is pointless to try. Whilst our relationship is strong, any interaction with other men (at work or socially) is harmless. If ultimately, our relationship is weak, then she might stray......it's really out of my hands. To screw my brain up constsntly with fears/concerns about her fidelity is an excercise in total frustration and I wont play that game.
Ming's approach to "face"
This is critically important, she constsntly measures many things in terms of better or less than better face.......what car, what sort of home, what sort of English skills, what sort of job. Almost all character traits in friends and aquaintances is quickly measured in terms of face. She ends up with poor opinions of those who (in her estimation) have lost face by what they have or what they have or have not done. It took me quite a while to come to grips with this because in my terms it is a shallow and peripheral way of judging a person........but I now understand it is far more subtle and profound than that !!!
In any environment you might well notice that a Chinese person is never wrong, there is always some external force or event that caused a problem...never themselves, because to admit that would cause a loss of face. So much of how Ming behaves in front of other people is all about the preservation and enhancement of face.
A liitle "for instance":
We have our main TV (64 inch LED, 3 D capable) in out home Theatre, with all the surround sound, bells and whistles.
In our other lounge room we have a small old fashioned TV that was built into a cabinet that is part of the room furnishings.
When one of her friends came round for tea, she was awed by our home Theatre...but when she saw the ancient TV in the lounge room , she commented that such a TV is now obsolete......Ming flew into panic when she had left and insisted that we got (and she paid for) a modern TV in this room....to be in possesion of the old TV was a flaw in the image (face) of living a wonderful life in a beautiful home.
I know this seems shallow and trivial, but I have begun to understand how the Chinese mind works and it is easier to go with the flow and accept it, than create hell to try to change it.
Face assumes gigantic proportions in the Chinese mind...however it is manifested and I dont think Westerners can fully understand it...or can change it !!!
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David, you have as always some great points about the Chinese “Face” thing.
Here with Qing and Myself, it put’s actually another spin on the whole thing. I have yet to see my LaoPo be Jealous of other Women or Material stuff and believe me.. there were many opportunities to throw something my way. Anyway, as I found out… it’s not Qing that is worried about “Face”… it’s none other than her “Brother”.
After finding out when Qing first got here in 2009, I gave her our ‘03 Highlander… which here is not uncommon to have/hold on to a Car for more years (especially when it’s paid for). Now for Qing’s brother, that Car is to him “TOO” old for his Sister to drive. So what does he want to do? He’s actually thinking of buying her a Lexus (Cash of course), I am shocked that this would even bother him, half-way around the world. You know what he said about my wonderful kept Car… this is a Car for a person from the Country-side/Peasant to drive. I did have a good laugh out of that one, but now… I’m thinking that I myself are on the step of losing some “Face” here. Ahhh.. maybe not… this is after all America and not China. As long it is all fine with Qing, I don’t really sweat it much.
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After finding out when Qing first got here in 2009, I gave her our ‘03 Highlander… which here is not uncommon to have/hold on to a Car for more years (especially when it’s paid for). Now for Qing’s brother, that Car is to him “TOO” old for his Sister to drive. So what does he want to do? He’s actually thinking of buying her a Lexus (Cash of course), I am shocked that this would even bother him, half-way around the world. You know what he said about my wonderful kept Car… this is a Car for a person from the Country-side/Peasant to drive. I did have a good laugh out of that one, but now…
I was watching a programme here on TV recently it was all about the young married couples who were now not saving like their parents always did but were spending and spending. Big modern apartments, top of range cars, designing goods. These were not the new noveau rich Chinese but ordinary working couples. The interviews showed they had a new outlook on life to that of their parents. Showing what they had was more important than what what was in the bank as no one could see what was in the bank!
Willy
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Big modern apartments, top of range cars, designing goods. Showing what they had was more important than what what was in the bank as no one could see what was in the bank! Willy
That would/is Qing brother exactly! The only difference is, he's loaded and so is his Wife with her money. She is even making more than me :'(, working for a top notch clothing company. Also, they do take care of their Parents real well. They do have a lot of Face and "Quan zhi" in his field.
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Arnold
I used google to translate your "quan zhi" - circle, group, or ring, but am at a loss on how to decipher its meaning in your sentence. I'm relatively new to the site and have been communicating with a young lady from Hengyang since the end of January. I am finding this site indispensable with regards to learning about the chinese culture and way of thinking. Thank you all for contributing to my education.
Ed
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Welcome Ed to our Forum! You have it actually correct here, it does mean "circle/group of People that you have on your good side (maybe even have them pribed with money) so you can further your own goal in Business or whatever you want to "use" them for your own good. It's like "Money talks" especially in China!
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Welcome Ed
There are a couple of others on here whose, wife, like mine come from Hengyang.
Willy
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Welcome Ed , to this forum , as you are busy reading any questions just ask , cos so far we have always found an answer ha ha , regards Sujuan and Robert .