China Romance
General Discussion and Useful Links => Newbies Corner => Topic started by: trwme on February 22, 2010, 07:46:03 am
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Hi guys,
On the 'Your Trip To China' board on this forum, I read the 'BEWARE-It usually does not work out the first time!' thread, all 18 pages of it. I've done a lot of reading on this board since I joined, and I found that to be perhaps the best, most informative thread I've read-so far, anyway. The intent and spirit of that thread basically is to warn and provide advice/guidance for first time visitors to China, as well as suggestions on how to be as prepared as possible beforehand by getting to know the lady you will be meeting.
I wanted to try to start a similar thread focused on the initial stages of contacting and getting to know the lady. To do so, I am going to put myself out there, explain how I've gone about things, and invite advice/criticisms from those of you who are far more experienced with these ladies, and in dealing with chnlove. This will all be done in the context of chnlove, since that is where I am coming at this from right now. If the moderators think this thread is redundant or inapproriate, just let me know and delete it. However, the chnlove setup is a new one for me, and I am sure for other newbies here. I think it would be good to have one thread aimed at this for new members to look at. Well...here goes.
Profile What I did with my profile is this; in the very first sentence I stated I am poor. Now, I am not poverty stricken, or I wouldn't be doing this. But I decided this would help weed out the gold diggers and scammers to an extent. I reinforced this subtely throughout my self description. For example, 'love can't be bought or sold' and 'love doesn't need money to sustain it'. I also mention, without boldly proclaiming what a wonderful family man I am (lol), that I am raising my 6 year old daughter by myself. I learned a long time ago that a man raising his own kids by himself catches the attention and interest of women here in the west, and I would imagine that would apply (perhaps moreso) to ladies from a culture that emphasizes family to such a great extent. I tried to present myself as humbly as possible.
Contacting the ladies There are three ways to initially contact the ladies-cupid notes, responding to admirer mails, or just directly sending an EMF. I'll explain how I went about this (so far) and why.
Cupid notes Someone on one of the other threads basically denigrated this way of making initial contact, calling it cheap looking. For myself, it reinforces what I said in my profile-I don't have huge amounts of money to throw at this process. If you do, good for you, go for it. But I am not looking for a woman who is going to judge me on how much money I can spend. I don't want her looking at my bank account. I want her looking at me, the person. I also want to know that the lady has some level of interest in me before I contact her. So I sent several cupid notes out. I can then look at her response to see how she fits what I am looking for-and more importantly, see if she took the time to really read my profile. To me this helps eliminate some of the translator scamming that is talked about on here. If she doesn't talk about my profile in a way that lets me know she actually read it, I am not going to respond with an EMF-I'll save those for the ones who show a certain level of seriousness in taking the time to read what I wrote. I've sent out 8 cupids, and only 2-3 appear to have actually read my profile.
Responding to Admirer mails Scottish Rob stated that these are all come ons from the agency, and not to respond to them. I didn't completely take his advice, but I did take it into consideration. Like the cupid notes, if the admirer mails do not address what I said in my profile, I will not respond to them. Very few of them show any signs of having read my profile, and most of them are obvious come ons. I've also taken to responding to every admirer mail from the Changsha P216 agency with reason A-the lady is not suitable. The photos from there are photoshopped to death, and many of the emails are more or less blatantly offering me a 'good time' if I come there to visit the lady.
Responding directly with EMF's as first contact This doesn't work for me, and I do not intend to do it, for several reasons. For one, I want to know the lady has some level of interest before I invest my hard earned money into getting to know her. I can gauge that with the cupids and the admirer mails. For another, if I just send an EMF I've wasted at least 2 credits before I even know if she is interested, or real, or maybe is already involved. For yet another, I can get a bit of a read about where she is coming from before I ever directly write to her by letting her either respond to a cupid, or by sending me an admirer mail. I can also tell something about the agency she is using in this way also.
So far I have contacted four ladies. One is a lady who responded to one of my cupids, one I am very interested in, who has been on the top of my list all along. Unfortunately, I contacted her right near the beginning of their spring festival, and as was suggested to me when I mentioned this on another thread, it took her a while to respond back because of it. She apologized for taking so long to respond, said she was still on her holiday, but had contacted me as soon as her agency had gone back to work. There are two other cupids I am interested in answering but I am not going to at this time. Both addressed my profile in a way that let me know they read it. One I like very much, but I am holding back to see how these other contacts go first. If the first round of contacts don't work out, she is at the top of round 2. The other lady, although she too responded in a way that showed me she read my profile (quoting it directly and commenting on what she quoted), I am not sure if I will ever contact back; her photos I am sure are photoshopped, and although they aren't the rolling on the bed in her skimpy nightgown type, she IS emphasizing her ample cleavage, at 45! Lot of purple eye shadow too.
The other three I contacted are from my admirer list. Two of those responded directly to my profile. Of those two, one I am on the third round of EMFs with, and there has been a good q&a back and forth with her. She seems completely genuine, and in fact her emails are saying things I could have written myself. The second of these two is going on my blocked list. Although her admirer mail adressed my profile, her follow up to my first EMF did not expand on that like I asked, she said some things that tells me she is probably a little spoiled, she is a little bit younger than my target age, and so although she is very cute I'm going to end that one quick, I think.
The third one I just contacted, and am waiting to hear from. Although she didn't really respond to my profile, I liked her a.m. and her profile, she fits the age group I am looking at, and to be fair to her I have expanded my self description since she contacted me originally-she was one of the first to send me an admirer mail, actually. She's kinda been my 1a all along.
After blocking the one lady, I am going to limit myself to talking to the other three. They are all from different agencies and different parts of China. Hopefully eventually one of them will stick out to the point that I will narrow it down to her, and focus on her alone-we'll see.
So far, this is what I've done and how I've approached this. I've also done the reading available on the agencies that chnlove provides, particularily checking the ratings, and also from reading what is said on this forum about different agencies. Like I said, I am avoiding Changsha P216 completely, and a couple of the other agencies too, based on this examination.
~Roy~
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Some more things to add to my op. Again, just to put myself out there for the benefit of advice/criticism, and perhaps to help someone else along who is new at this, as I am. The first couple relate to the admirer mails.
Favorites list I figured out pretty quickly this is a way to fish for admirer mail. Whenever you add someone to your favorites, the agency they are in gets notified, and I assume the lady does too, through the agency. Several of my admirer mails came after adding someone to my favorites, and specifically thank me for adding them. Along with the cupids, this is a free way to attract some attention and possible future contacts. This requires a lot of looking at profiles. I generally go through my 'matches', skim the profiles, look for things that generally fit into the criteria I have for what I am looking for, and then add to favorites. They don't have to exactly fit. The better ones-the more precise fits-I bookmark the profiles on my computer after adding them. Because I've gone through so many profiles, and added so many favorites, this helps me recognize later on which ones I was most interested in. I have 272 saved favorites. I have about 50 admirer mails. Of the a.ms., probably about 40-45 came from fishing with the favorites list.
Refreshing your profile This one is a no brainer-they tell you about doing this on the site, if you are paying attention. The search engines cranks out profiles in order of newest profiles/most recently refreshed profiles. By refreshing your profile you keep yours on the first few pages, which of course increases your chances of being seen. I refresh mine every couple of days, or have until now, and sometimes everyday. I've also figured out that my admirer mails come about the same time every evening, so I try to do this refreshing about an hour or two before then. Of the admirer mails I've received that weren't gotten by fishing with my favorites list, the rest have been gotten in this manner, I believe.
Translators This is a big issue. I've taken the advice of some of the brothers here, and addressed the translators directly in my EMFs. I do this right at the beginning, before the part addressed to the lady. The translator is going to see the letter first, anyway.
On the first EMF, what I've done is thanked the translator in advance for the work they will be doing for the lady and I. I am also careful to show respect for the lady; for example, I'll say to the translator, 'Thank you in advance for the work you will be doing for Ms. Yang and I.' I never call the lady by her first name when addressing the translator. I also tell the translator that part of the reason I have chosen this woman to contact is the excellent reputation of the agency they work for. I figure this can't hurt, and maybe it puts a little subtle psychological pressure on them to do a good job.
On the second EMF, I'll tell the translator what a great job they did on the previous letter from the lady, tell them their english is very good, ask where they went to school to learn this, and ask their name. I'll then ask for their contact information in case there is anything in the future I might need clarified.
On the advice of some of the brothers, I decided tht developing a relationship with the translator is very important. The lady on her end is certainly developing one, if she doesn't already have one. That may or may not be a friendship on that end, but by assuming it could be or is one, I can hopefully gain an ally on that end of things with the lady. I could also make them more careful about the work they do. If I piss the translator off, they might be inclined to steer the woman away from me. If they see that I am genuine and truly respect the lady, she might work harder on mt behalf on that end-and may, hopefully, be more inclined to give the lady my personal contact info (and give me the lady's) when I've reached the point of asking for that. This is especially true if the lady and the translator are friends. I'm just in the beginning stages of doing this, and what I am trying to do has come from reading the advice and experience of the other members here who have talked about this issue. As the saying goes here, you can attract more flies with honey rather than vinegar.
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I like the efforts spent on the translator because if everything goes wrong with your eventual intended you always have somebody else to fall back on - or rather fall forward on!!!!!
Do not forget the translators are women who also may be looking for a man!!! I am told they can get really lively reading some of the EMF's written by small number of men using Chnlove.:angel::angel:
Willy
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Willy define really lively:-/
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I like the efforts spent on the translator because if everything goes wrong with your eventual intended you always have somebody else to fall back on - or rather fall forward on!!!!!
Do not forget the translators are women who also may be looking for a man!!! I am told they can get really lively reading some of the EMF's written by small number of men using Chnlove.:angel::angel:
Willy
So far I have managed to start a bit of a side converation with two of them, and have their names. As I see it, it can't do anything but help to have them thinking well of you, and have them on your side with the lady. I think it can pay off in a few ways. As I mentioned, I am writing three ladies in three different parts of China right now. By the time I go, I'll have that down to one, and I won't be able to jet across China to meet one of the others if things don't go well with the one I choose to meet initially-even if the other ladies were willing to do that. So having a good reputation with the translator, I think she can point me towards other women in the agency and do a bit of matchmaking. Also, if it turns out the EMF responses contain a large bit of the translator's personality, well...that would mean the EMF chemistry is largely between you and the translator. And that leads into what you said about the translators being women looking for men as well, lol. You'd already have an established chemistry with someone there!
Of course, my main objectives right now is to have them do the best work they can for me and the lady, and perhaps be someone on that side of things nudging her my way, maybe assuaging any doubts the lady might have.
BTW, refering back to the 'BEWARE' thread I mentioned at the very beginning of my op....after only a few EMFs I can understand perfectly well what you guys were talking about in regards to how easy it is to get carried away. I am a newbie here, but I am a grizzled veteran of internet dating. And never in all my time doing this (or in all my life, really) have I ever encountered the kind of phenomena I am encountering now writing these ladies. It's amazing. I've always been someone who is in control of his emotions, sometimes probably too much so, but with these ladies....that is damn hard to maintain. And I can see a little bit now of what those of you who have met and married one of these women are talking about. As I told 007 in a PM, with one of the women I am writing to right now, I can very easily see me becoming her little puppy dog for the rest of my life if she handles her stuff right, lol.
Cupid notes, If I saw a lady that I wanted to contact I would use the Cupid note. For I wasn't spending a credit on a "maybe". If she was taken, or for whatever reason didn't want to reply? There's no money spent on nothing. I couldn't give two rat turds on whether it looked cheap or not. If the lady thought or expressed why didn't I spend a credit on her? Then we would already be starting off on the wrong foot. She may or may not get a reply from me and she wouldn't like it if she did.
The cupid notes I sent basically said, I am interested in you, Can I write you? Maybe something from her profile was quoted? Each CN was written for the lady, not a form type. I found my lady this way and I'm glad I did.
I haven't seen a feature on the cupid page that allows you to write your own message. Maybe I'm missing it. All I get is a list of four options of things to say. I usually pick the one that basically says 'I liked your profile, would you care to read mine to see if I fit what you are looking for?'
Being completely inexperienced at this time about chinese culture, I can't say definitively how the lady may look at receiving what amounts to a freebee from a guy. But from what I've read here, frugality is or seems to be a big part of the chinese character, so it might have just the opposite effect, rather than turning them off. It might seem very chinese to them, lol. Of course, that depends on how they see westerners. Either way, I am not out to impress a lady by throwing money at her, even if I could. I want to avoid sending that kind of signal right off the bat.
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tr....When I mentioned about the responding to admiring mails maybe I did not come over right...
What I was trying to say was, that there is probably a high percentage of these mails being done by the agency, to attract your attention...Read and compare the ones you have received and you will probably be able to tell the difference.
I stopped answering those type of letters, unless there was a definete attraction by me. Something had to 'Stand out,' as you said, 'Read' my profile and mentions someting from it. I took the advice of Vince, DavidE, and others after reading some of the things they mentioned. So I reverted to Picking the lady I was interested in and sent an Emf rather than a cupid note. I found that this was a good way because 'YOU' are choosing the one and NOT the agency.
But good job on this thread...And the best of luck mate...
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Some good stuff here Roy.
Anyway, I have to stick my oar in...
Profile: Type any old rubbish, I very much doubt ladies even read it. What you should do though is have a good idea of the kind of lady you're looking for.
Cupid notes: Nothing wrong with these.
Admirer mails: I found my lady via these so again they are OK.
Yes blocking ladies you don't like is a good idea.
I'd also add that when writing an EMF keep it simple. Translators work long hours for poor salaries and anything you can do to make their life easier will go down well!
I don't think I would use chnlove again. Why? Well they've diluted the lovely chinese ladies with horrible Thais and you can't seem to screen them out. What a dumb idea.
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its like playing craps with these agencies you just dont
know how the dice will fall
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tr....When I mentioned about the responding to admiring mails maybe I did not come over right...
What I was trying to say was, that there is probably a high percentage of these mails being done by the agency, to attract your attention...Read and compare the ones you have received and you will probably be able to tell the difference.
I stopped answering those type of letters, unless there was a definete attraction by me. Something had to 'Stand out,' as you said, 'Read' my profile and mentions someting from it. I took the advice of Vince, DavidE, and others after reading some of the things they mentioned. So I reverted to Picking the lady I was interested in and sent an Emf rather than a cupid note. I found that this was a good way because 'YOU' are choosing the one and NOT the agency.
But good job on this thread...And the best of luck mate...
Hi Rob,
I probably shouldn't have named you when I spoke about that, it might have come across as calling you out maybe. I greatly respect everyone's advice here, especially those-like you-who have been at this a while, gone to China, and made connections or found their lady. I understand what you are saying. For me-in my personal circumstances-right now I have a limited budget for pursuing this, so I need to be as efficient as I can, even if it means sifting through the admirer letters over and over looking for clues as to whether they are real or agency come ons. That in itself has been educational, especially when I can apply what I have learned from the brotherhood here in doing so. I was also very lucky that I found this forum before I started spending money on EMFs. I can't say enough about what a great help everyone here has been. Because of all the advice I gathered from here, I feel like I was better able to place my bets from the beginning.
So far, so good. I am talking to three ladies I know are real. One was a cupid response, and the other two from my admirer list.
Some good stuff here Roy.
Anyway, I have to stick my oar in...
Profile: Type any old rubbish, I very much doubt ladies even read it. What you should do though is have a good idea of the kind of lady you're looking for.
Cupid notes: Nothing wrong with these.
Admirer mails: I found my lady via these so again they are OK.
Yes blocking ladies you don't like is a good idea.
I'd also add that when writing an EMF keep it simple. Translators work long hours for poor salaries and anything you can do to make their life easier will go down well!
I don't think I would use chnlove again. Why? Well they've diluted the lovely chinese ladies with horrible Thais and you can't seem to screen them out. What a dumb idea.
Hi Brett,
Well, I might have to disagree with you, respectfully, about the profiles. Many of the ladies profiles I've read specifically ask you to read them. Personally, I want to talk to someone who knows what they are looking for. If they are serious, and know what they want, then it seems to me they will read the profiles to see if you 'fit' THEIR criteria. I don't want someone who will take anyone, or who is just looking at who has the most handsome pics and assuming since I am from the west I MUST have money. And I know for certain that at least some of them do read the profiles; I know this, because I have several admirer or cupid responses that address things I said there and/or quote from what I wrote directly.
What you say about the translators though is something I probably should keep in mind. However, to play devil's advocate for a moment, let me say this. If I happen to be writing someone who is trying to scam me, better to make them work for it. If the pay is that bad they'll move on to someone that won't make them work that hard. BUT, again, you have a good point. I have started to build a bit of a relationship with a couple of the translators through side notes on the EMFs. Maybe I should try to find a way to make it worth their while, and ask if there is something I can do to make this easier for them. I do tend to write long letters, lol, a couple have been right at the 6,000 character limit-literaly!
But hey, maybe when the time comes it will give them more incentive to pass along my private contact info just to get rid of me!
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Just a word for those who write long long EMF's. Do not waste your time and effort unless writing them makes you feel good. Write to the point as the lady will be receiving the info by telephone - no one actually goes to the agency to read them as they cannot read English and the Translators do not print them off or make written translations - they telephone the ladies and read a precis from the screen of what THEY think are the relevant points.
Willy
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Willy The Londoner
Just a word for those who write long long EMF's. Do not waste your time and effort unless writing them makes you feel good. Write to the point as the lady will be receiving the info by telephone - no one actually goes to the agency to read them as they cannot read English and the Translators do not print them off or make written translations - they telephone the ladies and read a precis from the screen of what THEY think are the relevant points.
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i had no idea of this is how it happened, thanks for the information. So how does the lady get her message to the translator, by phone as well or on her computer?
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Willy, interesting point, and good to know, as I have finaly after a few months of sitting on the fence taken the plunge and started writing one of the ladies myself. Great thread!
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so if it is done by phone, in most cases the lady is very much, or very much could be, at arms length. i imagined the lady getting a written translation and responding with a message that in turn would be translated. it makes so much sense in my case as i have stated before i get basically the same letter over and over, nothing much personal but to be sure sparks are flying. all that said my enthusiasm has not been diminished, my curiosity even greater.
Thanks everyone for the information
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Sounds like good advice Vince, thanks. Looks can be very distracting. What"s someone to do though. Mike O seemed to be in a similar situation as mine, persevered and is living happily ever after.
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Roy
No problem at all brother...I knew you were not coming across like that mate.
I was just trying to explain why I had said it to you like that, that was all..
All is good:icon_cheesygrin:
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Well, on the issue of whether the ladies actually go to the agencies to read the mail and look at the pics, let me offer a thought. Maybe some do, and some don't. Some of them may live too far away from the agency for that to be practical at all. Some may lack the transportation perhaps to do so for every EMF.
Just from my admittedly limited experience so far, I believe the three I am writing right now are seeing the mail I send them. Of course, I am thousands of miles away sitting behind a monitor and a keyboard, so I can't know for sure...BUT...I have the following clues related to the letters and pics I have sent. First off, all three of them live in the city where their agencies are located. One of them (in Chengdu) just asked me to send her more pics-why do that if you aren't seeing them? One of them (from Wuhan) asked me questions specifically related to things in my pics I sent-who is the little girl I am holding, am I performing onstage in the shot of me with the guitar, etc. The other one (from Tieling) made a joke about one of the pics I sent her-I had mentioned that both of my sons are a lot taller than I am. I sent her a pic of one of my sons and I sitting on some steps. She joked that well, since your sons are taller than you that must be why you take pictures with them sitting on steps!
Also, the lady from Wuhan (the one who makes me feel like a little puppy dog, lol), in her last letter, was very focused in answering every question I had asked of her in my previous one. She answered every one in the order they came in, and the letter didn't contain a lot of fluff in between (although a certain amount of flirting was present all through :icon_cheesygrin:). She had also mentioned a friend of hers that had met someone and gotten married through chnlove, and sent pics to me of the lady and her man at their wedding. The one from Tieling has also been very focused in answering my questions, failing to answer only a couple, and always providing some counter questions in response.
So it seems to me that if all this is going on over the phone, they are spending a lot of time on the phone with this stuff. I'm not saying that what Willy and Mpo said isn't true, just that it might be true on a case by case basis rather than as a broad general way things are done kinda way. As I recall, somewhere on the chnlove site it says that the ladies are notified by phone when they have mail. But it also says the following;
"The Chnlove service provider (CL agency) will deliver your mail "As-Is" to the lady. If she encounters any difficulties when reading your mail, free translation service will be provided for her, helping her understand the content fully and correctly."
So perhaps in the case of ladies with internet and computer access, they receive the mail, then call to get translator help if they can't understand something fully. I also recall someone else on one of the other threads I read here stating that they had received photo copies of the hand written letters their lady had sent to the agency, and had them independantly translated and found out the translation they had received from the agency was practically the same.
Roy
No problem at all brother...I knew you were not coming across like that mate.
I was just trying to explain why I had said it to you like that, that was all..
All is good:icon_cheesygrin:
...sigh:heart:...he called me brother...does that mean I belong now?:icon_cheesygrin:
One other note here, which may or may not be relevant. When I first joined chnlove, the very first admirer mail I received contained the lady's personal email address, and an invitation to write her there. I don't know if this was her personal email, or an agency email set up for her there at the agency in her name. We exchanged several emails through this channel. She told me that she received the email, read it herself, took it to her translator for clarification, then wrote a response herself and sent it to the translator who then tanslated it into english, and then either gave it back to her to send me or sent it for her. This wasn't the EMF route, BUT it followed the same basic protocol described at chnlove for the handling of the EMF and their responses to them.
She is a member of Changsha P218, which has the polar opposite reputation of Changsha P216, as far as I could investigate it.
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trwme,
Sounds to me very much like her agency controlled email address. Which basically give you the same service as the regular EMF'S but without the cost to yourself. For those that have ladies that can't converse very well in English, this is a good avenue of communication, but it shouldn't be considered as the ONLY communication method. You still need webcam time together, nothing like speaking (albeit limited due to language problems) directly to each other and seeing your lady in real time... lol!!!
David...
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Well I will try and add a couple of bits for consideration here as well. The following is a Yahoo Messenger im that I received yesterday, from a lady I have started talking with through EMF's. We are at about number 28. (which is to say 14 EMF's in each direction)
So to start, the message I received yesterday...... (I am trying to keep this as accurate as possible to what I received)
"Dear Dan:
You may receive another letter saying that I did not receive the SMS you send. In fact, it is because Web sites that would limit the exchange of an intermediary. Because if you and I are talking about marriage, as well as to meet, they will charge high fees. If we are to use private e-mail or phone contact does not need to them, they will lose wealth. So you and most of my communication is through their letters translated. I received a text message to your cell phone, and will also remember your number. They give you the contents of the exception of a small part of the reply on the address, e-mail,telephone and the like are linked by their method of shielding the outside. The basic content of other respondents translated according to what I intended." ..... then there is a just a bit more before the message cuts off.
So there is a timely example that in fact, that at least for this agency (GZB) the emails/communications are very controlled. I am now going through the copies of the EMF's I have here, because I am sure I asked a very simple question in one of the earliest ones as to weather this lady played any form of musical instrument. The question went un-answered. Polite enough question I thought, but when it went unanswered I just let it slide. No biggie, but today I received a private e-mail from this same lady, with some pictures attached, and in one of them she is playing a violin, which she is working on as part of some upcoming promotion for the company she works for. :huh: So yes, some things are being lost in translation through EMF's, but now is it to control the flow of EMF money (I am sure that is a great motivator) or is it just a bad translation service, and they couldn't figure out what I meant when I (and I am sure I did) asked about musical ability.
So now I will go back through, and pick out anything else that went unanswered and try again, this time directly to the lady. and see what happens then.
Now yes this lady and I did talk about marriage and to some degree sex ( yes the talk regarding sex so early kind of took me back a bit) but none of it had to do with getting married, or nitty gritty details of sex, but rather, more the philosophical end of things, level of commitment needed monogamy etc. Kind of personal stuff I guess, but a good honest way to see if the person you are talking with is on the same level as you. Flip side of that is though, sex or marriage talk of any kind must make for a great way to set the hook in a big fat Lowai ( I think that is the right word :icon_cheesygrin: ) and get them tied into the EMF treadmill.
Now that I have gotten the first communications with this lady, I will try more outside of the EMF and see how it progresses there.
This isn't a knock against the EMF idea, I think the concept is great, but may suffer from a lack of quality control, or over site. Thankfully we have Chnlove.info here for help with part of that!
Quick update as I read the latest EMF from the lady I am writing to, Second line of the letter .....
.Again,thank your for your time and efforts chatting with me on Yahoo.I feel happy and excited when chatting with you there.:)Hope our chat doesn't interfere your dinner and sleep.Please let me know if I bother your life or work.I can patiently wait for your letters when you're convenient.
Trying to set the hook now?? :icon_cheesygrin:
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Well I will try and add a couple of bits for consideration here as well. The following is a Yahoo Messenger im that I received yesterday, from a lady I have started talking with through EMF's. We are at about number 28. (which is to say 14 EMF's in each direction)
So to start, the message I received yesterday...... (I am trying to keep this as accurate as possible to what I received)
"Dear Dan:
You may receive another letter saying that I did not receive the SMS you send. In fact, it is because Web sites that would limit the exchange of an intermediary. Because if you and I are talking about marriage, as well as to meet, they will charge high fees. If we are to use private e-mail or phone contact does not need to them, they will lose wealth. So you and most of my communication is through their letters translated. I received a text message to your cell phone, and will also remember your number. They give you the contents of the exception of a small part of the reply on the address, e-mail,telephone and the like are linked by their method of shielding the outside. The basic content of other respondents translated according to what I intended." ..... then there is a just a bit more before the message cuts off.
So there is a timely example that in fact, that at least for this agency (GZB) the emails/communications are very controlled. I am now going through the copies of the EMF's I have here, because I am sure I asked a very simple question in one of the earliest ones as to weather this lady played any form of musical instrument. The question went un-answered. Polite enough question I thought, but when it went unanswered I just let it slide. No biggie, but today I received a private e-mail from this same lady, with some pictures attached, and in one of them she is playing a violin, which she is working on as part of some upcoming promotion for the company she works for. :huh: So yes, some things are being lost in translation through EMF's, but now is it to control the flow of EMF money (I am sure that is a great motivator) or is it just a bad translation service, and they couldn't figure out what I meant when I (and I am sure I did) asked about musical ability.
So now I will go back through, and pick out anything else that went unanswered and try again, this time directly to the lady. and see what happens then.
Now yes this lady and I did talk about marriage and to some degree sex ( yes the talk regarding sex so early kind of took me back a bit) but none of it had to do with getting married, or nitty gritty details of sex, but rather, more the philosophical end of things, level of commitment needed monogamy etc. Kind of personal stuff I guess, but a good honest way to see if the person you are talking with is on the same level as you. Flip side of that is though, sex or marriage talk of any kind must make for a great way to set the hook in a big fat Lowai ( I think that is the right word :icon_cheesygrin: ) and get them tied into the EMF treadmill.
Now that I have gotten the first communications with this lady, I will try more outside of the EMF and see how it progresses there.
This isn't a knock against the EMF idea, I think the concept is great, but may suffer from a lack of quality control, or over site. Thankfully we have Chnlove.info here for help with part of that!
Quick update as I read the latest EMF from the lady I am writing to, Second line of the letter .....
.Again,thank your for your time and efforts chatting with me on Yahoo.I feel happy and excited when chatting with you there.:)Hope our chat doesn't interfere your dinner and sleep.Please let me know if I bother your life or work.I can patiently wait for your letters when you're convenient.
Trying to set the hook now?? :icon_cheesygrin:
Dan,
My experience with GZB tells me they have no qualms about even using a fake lady to waste my EMFs. Even to the extent of sending fake photos. Be very careful about GZB. Many brothers had the same experience, as a search of this forum will reveal. With real ladies, as your gal mentioned, they would prolong & add sparks, withhold contact info, make you waste EMFs. I have had other agencies who pass on contact info though, or so they say. I need direct contact to have proof before saying which ones (all in my thread on agencies).
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Well I have also had some worries about dealing with agency P558. I have wrote to one girl from this agency, but it seams she takes some time to write back. In the mean time ill get 2 AM's from this agency a day. All of these girls are beautiful and young. Most of the letters say thin same thing just rearrange not to make it obvious. It seams they have a good rep, but those numbers are so flawed. From what I gathered they are just if the translator was understandable.
Dan, I had one girl who talked about sex a lot during her EMF's. I had a huge interest in her but I got a weird feeling about it when it continued to progress, after I told her I was more interested in getting to know her as a person. In my opinion it is just away to bait you into my EMF's but I could be wrong.
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Ok Roy
Nothing you said in your reply will satisfy me that you are talking directly to the lady and not building up 'a relationship' with a translator.
I still doubt if any of the three you refer to have ever been to the agency to read an EMF.
Ok the agency may be located in the same city as each of the ladies in Question - but do you know just how large the cities are in China?
Travelling from one part of the city to another takes time and money. Maybe several buses and a lot of time. Taxis will be out of the question. Even the shortest taxi fare one way will feed a person for a day and Chinese women are more finanacially accute than that.
If the questions are answered then why cannot the translator answer them? Your photos probably are never seen by the lady as a translator can make comments on them.
The internet and computer ownership is not as wide in China as one may imagine.
Until you have a face to face meeting by webcam and are able to speak on the telephone then you will never be sure that your lady is real. Even sending email or using messenger you cannot be certain so get a webcam set up. They are cheap in China and can be easily done with yahoo messenger. See and talk with her - even if you do not understand a word each other says.
I arrived in China in June 2009 and the lady I came to see - had no idea about any photos. She had been told about the photos but had never seen them. The agencies do not make a copy and send them to the ladies. That would cost money and money is not gladly spent by agencies.
This lady spoke fairly good English but could not read it - the majority of Chinese ladies cannot read a word of English - from my experience when they say they are learning English that means that they will start learning one day but not just now!!!
There are often reference in various threads to the difficulties the members have with their ladies lack of English even after they have met them once or twice or even more.
We start to learn Pinyin and start using that in letters. The vast majority have no idea of the difference between pnyin and Ping Pong!
They do not read pinyin. it is a way for foreigners to learn to spek the language not to write it. You may get the odd Ni Hao or Wo ai ni.
The phone is cheaper in China than travelling - I would think that every women on any marriage site in China has a cell phone.
But even with every form of communication, and I did use them all, it was not until I arrived here that we both realised that within a week we were not meant to be anything other than friends.
Meeting is the key to the relationship - it will unlock the door or firmly leave it closed.
Willy
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Ok Roy
Nothing you said in your reply will satisfy me that you are talking directly to the lady and not building up 'a relationship' with a translator.
I still doubt if any of the three you refer to have ever been to the agency to read an EMF.
Ok the agency may be located in the same city as each of the ladies in Question - but do you know just how large the cities are in China?
Travelling from one part of the city to another takes time and money. Maybe several buses and a lot of time. Taxis will be out of the question. Even the shortest taxi fare one way will feed a person for a day and Chinese women are more finanacially accute than that.
If the questions are answered then why cannot the translator answer them? Your photos probably are never seen by the lady as a translator can make comments on them.
The internet and computer ownership is not as wide in China as one may imagine.
Until you have a face to face meeting by webcam and are able to speak on the telephone then you will never be sure that your lady is real. Even sending email or using messenger you cannot be certain so get a webcam set up. They are cheap in China and can be easily done with yahoo messenger. See and talk with her - even if you do not understand a word each other says.
I arrived in China in June 2009 and the lady I came to see - had no idea about any photos. She had been told about the photos but had never seen them. The agencies do not make a copy and send them to the ladies. That would cost money and money is not gladly spent by agencies.
This lady spoke fairly good English but could not read it - the majority of Chinese ladies cannot read a word of English - from my experience when they say they are learning English that means that they will start learning one day but not just now!!!
There are often reference in various threads to the difficulties the members have with their ladies lack of English even after they have met them once or twice or even more.
We start to learn Pinyin and start using that in letters. The vast majority have no idea of the difference between pnyin and Ping Pong!
They do not read pinyin. it is a way for foreigners to learn to spek the language not to write it. You may get the odd Ni Hao or Wo ai ni.
The phone is cheaper in China than travelling - I would think that every women on any marriage site in China has a cell phone.
But even with every form of communication, and I did use them all, it was not until I arrived here that we both realised that within a week we were not meant to be anything other than friends.
Meeting is the key to the relationship - it will unlock the door or firmly leave it closed.
Willy
Well, I'll have to bow to your superior experience here Willy :blush:
I mean that seriously. I should have said I think or believe they are real. I have done a lot of thinking and have already considered the things you mentioned. It could be a complete scam. The translator could be receiving the EMFs, responding to them point by point, armed with a boatload of pictures and a well worked out life of details, hammered out over years of scamming naive westerners. It could all be made up bs, with no lady at all on the other end. Just a 'translator' receiving and sending emails from the agency office.
But if that is true, how do they stay in business? There can't be that much EMF money to go around. The most they can cost is a little over $6 per credit. I'd bet most buy them in larger batches, in which case they are what, about $3.85 or so per credit? How many ways is that credit pie split? Chnlove gets a slice, the agency gets a slice, they have to pay the translators, they surely have other overhead costs related to this. I guess volume counts-but the emfs I am exchanging with the person in Wuhan are not short notes. They are quite long. You can ask 007, I showed him most of one of them.
I plan on pushing for a webcam meeting shortly with one of the women, the one I am writing to the most. We (meaning me and whoever is on the other end responding) are sending an EMF to each other everyday. That's the one from Wuhan. The one in Tieling is about an every other day thing. Those are pretty long too. The one in Chendu has only been a couple so far; she says she is still on holiday. If that one is just a translator, why aren't they pushing me to write by sending me a reply to my last EMF, which I sent three days ago.
Here is something I've noticed though, and it has made me speculate what it means. When I send an EMF to the one in Wuhan, I watch the delivery status. It changes to delivered very quickly, usually within a few minutes at the most. That includes the one I sent tonight. On the one hand, that makes me a bit suspicous, but on the other, if this is a scam everything else is so seemless, why miss that obvious detail?
Hell I don't know. You say one thing, Mike seems to back you up, Vince says something else, and others say things in between. There's no real consensus here about this issue, except that some agencies are pretty shady, and others seem to be more legitimate.
You are right, and I agree with you completely without reservation on one thing though. Until you meet, you really don't know whether you have met The One, or someone you'll never see again. But that is true whether you are going through translators or actually swapping emails and im chats and webcam sessions. Case in point, a few months ago I met someone on another dating site, swapped an email or two, chatted for hours and hours on im, webcammed, and talked on the phone deep into the night several times. We then went out on a couple of dates, and while a lot of what was there online and on the phone was still there, something was lacking for me, even though it wasn't for her. We've never gone out again. I haven't even talked to her since a couple of weeks after our last date. I guess the difference is, I only had to go 30 miles to find this out, not halfway around the world.
One other thing too. I can sit here and be cynical about it, and keeping a tight check on my emotions, to the point that I am prepared to be dissapointed when I ever go to China. I take all the excitement away at the beginning, and the lady-if there really is one-will notice this, and interpret it her way. That just increases the odds that I will be dissapointed, because I'll already have it in my head this ain't real or going to work out, and that is not the basis for a first meeting with someone. I know from experience the woman is paying close attention to how you look at her that first time. Just going to have to be prepared for a kitn if and when it comes.
BTW, I already understood that speaking english and reading or writing it are two separate things.
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Very well said Willy. You covered the reality of this very well.
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Valid points Roy. "Delivered" to my mind could mean anything from forwarded email, SMS, short verbal summary via phone, or even printed out & sent by snail mail. I wouldn't worry too much about it, had that before sometimes, and also a 1 liner answer, which normally would be offensive, but in this case is fine - she immediately asked for my direct email. That couldn't be a translator now eh? I think each agency works its own way in delivering the EMF, and also depends how the lady prefers to receive EMF.
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I just met my lady and we did compare letters. She printed them out right before I left for china and I took all of the letters on a flash drive. The letters in this case matched very closely except the first 3. I am talking about the translated letters to her and from her. There where some differences a word here or there but in overall meaning was the same. Except the first 3 letters sent from her. She never actually saw my letters. They called her on the phone then gave her a quick run down of what the letter said then she told the translator the basics of what she wanted to say then the translator wrote me a letter with a lot of fluff and very little of her in them. It worked of course I kept writting to her. All of this took place before I found the brotherhood though. She told me that when she is busy and can't or doesn't want to come to the agency to get my letters she just has them call her and tell her what the letter says. I think I was lucky that the agency my soon to be wife is with was generally honest. They did hold out on contact info asked for by me for weveral weeks, until I wrote that I could no longer write to her unless I could actually see her. Then the next letter contained contact info. By then I was into the EMF coffers for about 50 letters. In some ways I wish I had found this site earlier but it worked out in the end. She did not understand why I needed to see her to keep writing to her untill I explained that a large part of communication was body language and after I explained what body language was she understood why I needed to see her. I will offer this advise to you, If you think she is real then she is until you can prove otherwise. I would have never continued to write my Lady if I would have not thought that way. I do agree that you need to see her as soon as possible so keep pushing for that, but don't give up on her untill you are convinced that she is not real. Now this is just my opinion and should be only taken for that. I don't have the experience that most everybody else does here.
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Just want to clarify something here, because I kinda went off in a different direction in my last post than what Willy was really trying to say. As I understand Willy's point, he's saying this is all done by phone, at least for the most part. I can't really refute that being the case with any of the three I am talking to through EMF. I can't even say it isn't the case with the other one I've been in private email contact with either. I still am somewhat mystified about that one.
That being the case, then there is no knowing anything or learning anything about the person you think you're talking to, and this is all an exercise in futility until you are able to meet. A complete crapshoot. You are responding to details that may or may not exist in the other person's life, or things they may never have said. You might just as well get a positive response from someone and head straight on over to China to meet them, because you really haven't established any more of a relationship you can have any real level of confidence in beforehand doing it the other way, as I see it.
I just want to emphasize again that I agree with Willy 100% that until you meet face to face and spend some time together, you can't be 100% certain. Emails, im chats, and webcams can only take you so far.
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I would just like to add that what we say in these threads are not set in stone. You have to decide your own direction and just weigh up the advice given for what it is - advice.
Before coming to China I was talking to two ladies and then following advice gleaned from here I decided that number one was too good to be true and settled for number two.
What a mistake - Number two was not the same person in real life- the same physically but not the same in character etc we remain good friends but nothing else.
But I did meet number one at a later date. She was beautiful probably had more sex appeal than her photos showed. A great sense of human and her English was very very good. And she told me that she really had liked me. What a mistake I had made.
But when asked if she would like to take up where we left off but she politely turned me down and said that if we did she would always consider herself to be second best as far as I was concerned.
But this is for everyone not just for you Roy. These threads are in black and white but in real life there is a lot of grey in between so use your own judgement and if turns out to be wrong then learn from it. Do not give up.
I had a couple of failures but also some great times that I will probably remember forever but which are not for recalling on these pages but just to remain my own pleasant memories.
I am now happily married and the only advice within these pages that anyone should follow strictly is the 24 hour rule. Something I know to my own personal cost.
Willy
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Yes what Willy has stated is great - you must trust your own instincts. I've had a helluva nightmare in my relationship, but despite what everyone says here, my own instincts have served me well. The 24 hour rule is good.
All of our ladies are very different and I'll tell you straight up that on occasions some brothers have been dead wrong about what they think they know about China. Actually I'll say that China is a mass of contradictions, so no wonder we're all confused. They can't even standardise the standardised language for God's sake - I am acutely aware that my Chinese teacher and my various books are not always on song :huh:.
I think the key to this is both knowing *exactly* what you want. What I want today is exactly what I wanted when I wrote my chnlove profile back in July. As to my lady, I don't think she knows what she wants, and I suspect it will ultimately kill off our relationship. I haven't seen much talk of this but I am beginning to think that this foreign husband finding thing is a bit of a craze in China at the moment. Perhaps these women get sweet talked into finding a foreign husband without knowing what it *really* entails.
Tread carefully!
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Well, I started this thread with three basic things in mind.
1. To get advice and criticism from the more experienced members here. That required being as transparent as possible in revealing my approach and my thinking behind it.
2. To maybe put something on this forum that could help others just starting out. They can learn either from my mistakes or maybe from where I did something correct. Again, that requires me laying it on the line and looking like an idiot, lol.
3. As a kind of ongoing journal that I can look at, and then look at myself, and decide what is working and what is not. I can examine my own thinking, and emotions. That requires me to be honest with myself.
What I've learned so far is this; you can think you are developing and following a good strategy, but in the end you have no real control over any of it, and it is a different animal after you get started than what you thought you had going at the beginning. You can think and think and think trying to figure out what is and isn't real, and in the end you have no solid ground to be confident of any of your conclusions. The only thing you can know for sure is that there is someone out there on the other end. And it is silly, I suppose, to think it is just the lady you believe you are writing to.
I'll continue to post my thoughts and experiences here as I go along. To Willy, I ain't ready to quit yet; I've bought the credits, I'm going to use them. There's no refund, lol.
Maybe I'll just spend them on writing EMFs to the translators and save them the bother of calling the ladies, rotflm*o.
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Good luck!
Actually I didn't have much problem figuring out who the fake and real ladies were, but it's things afterwards that have been tricky.
I guess my tips are to go for ladies with natural photos, avoid the very young and the eye candy and that certain Changsha agency. If you're worried about EMF cost then don't even consider getting a Chinese wife, this whole episode will cost you a lot of money and EMF cost is insignificant compared to everything else.
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If you're worried about EMF cost then don't even consider getting a Chinese wife, this whole episode will cost you a lot of money and EMF cost is insignificant compared to everything else.
Right now is a different thing in my world than usual. I'm going through a costly custody battle. I just gave my lawyer another 1k last week. That'll be over within the next 5 weeks, one way or the other. I actually have enough money right now to make a trip over there and back, if I had the vacation time, which I don't. I'm trying to protect the money already set aside, every other bit of extra income is going to lawyer bills. After this stuff is over I won't give a rat's ass what an emf costs. I just have an attitude about being jerked around. I'm also in line for a promotion and a raise later this year too, if the supervisor at work follows through on his plans to retire. Money isn't going to be an issue, unless something unforseen happens.
I also already know all about the other costs you mention-at least, in relation to immigration issues. I've already done one immigration for a wife; did it all myself too, no lawyer. Paid all the fees, gave her the money to make the trip to the consulate, gave her the money to make the trip here. Unfortunately I then gave her the money to make the trip back home too, lol.
I realize there are other things related to agency fees and the like. Not too worried about those right at this moment either. That'll take care of itself if or when the time comes. First things first, I want to make a trip there, stick a toe in the water, see what it is about and if it is really for me. I want to have someone lined up to meet before I do, so I can get a better gauge of a face to face relationship with one of these ladies, as well as getting inside one of these agencies if possible and getting some experience on the ground with that.
Like the name of this thread, I am just at the baby step stage. I am taking things apart, looking at them, trying to figure out all the angles, seeing how all this works. I'll do that every step of the way. I've got a lot to do and a lot to learn before I ever bring one of these ladies here to live with me, if I ever reach that point.
Vince, I'm getting a better understanding of what you said here, now that this has been discussed on this thread and that I've started seeing how this process really works by being in it. the very next emf to each of the women I am talking to is going to try to get at how they are receiving the letters-if they are. Especially the one in Wuhan, because as I said earlier on this thread, every emf I've sent her gets delivered within a few minutes after I've sent it, according to the delivery status message in my sent mail box. To me that either means it is being forwarded straight to her, and I can be reasonably confident she is involved in the responses, or else it smacks of something fishy. Maybe someone here can enlighten me further on what else could be possibly going on there.
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EMFs often get delivered by a mobile phone call - I know this is true because I was with my lady when one was delivered!
As to the costs, well the start of this is expensive but in the long term a frugal Chinese lady will save you 1000's of dollars, although you might have to get used to using toothbrushes stolen from hotels and travelling by bus instead of train :icon_cheesygrin:.
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The majority of EMF's get delivered to the ladies by phone or email, As is the replies you receive back from your lady. Which is one of the reasons many of your replies are on the short side. That should tell you that the lady has narrated her reply over the phone to the translator. You'll find ladies email replies to the agency are longer and tend to cover a bit more fully your letter.
Telephone replies to the translator, leaves the door open for the translator to fluff things up a bit if she thinks the reply is too short in content. That can lead to trouble later on, as the translator rarely informs the lady what she has written to the man... This has been bourne out so many times by the Bros going over to meet there ladies, and finding out that the image of their ladies personality didn't really match her real self. Sometimes it worked out well for them, but others found the difference too great, and felt very much cheated!!
David.....
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The majority of EMF's get delivered to the ladies by phone or email, As is the replies you receive back from your lady. Which is one of the reasons many of your replies are on the short side. That should tell you that the lady has narrated her reply over the phone to the translator. You'll find ladies email replies to the agency are longer and tend to cover a bit more fully your letter.
Telephone replies to the translator, leaves the door open for the translator to fluff things up a bit if she thinks the reply is too short in content. That can lead to trouble later on, as the translator rarely informs the lady what she has written to the man... This has been bourne out so many times by the Bros going over to meet there ladies, and finding out that the image of their ladies personality didn't really match her real self. Sometimes it worked out well for them, but others found the difference too great, and felt very much cheated!!
David.....
This info is as valuable as is Maxx's 24 Rule . One of the great road blocks ( bump's ) in EMF communication .
Thanks David , can't put that out too often for the newbee's .
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The majority of EMF's get delivered to the ladies by phone or email, As is the replies you receive back from your lady. Which is one of the reasons many of your replies are on the short side. That should tell you that the lady has narrated her reply over the phone to the translator. You'll find ladies email replies to the agency are longer and tend to cover a bit more fully your letter.
Telephone replies to the translator, leaves the door open for the translator to fluff things up a bit if she thinks the reply is too short in content. That can lead to trouble later on, as the translator rarely informs the lady what she has written to the man... This has been bourne out so many times by the Bros going over to meet there ladies, and finding out that the image of their ladies personality didn't really match her real self. Sometimes it worked out well for them, but others found the difference too great, and felt very much cheated!!
David.....
Well, from what you said here I must conclude my lady friend in Wuhan is receiving emails and writing her own responses, which are then translated and sent to me. As I said, when I send them to her they pass into the delivered status very quickly, every time, within a few minutes. Every one of her replies has been long, focused, and replied to every question I asked and comments I've made. There's no fluff. There is an ongoing romantic context back and forth too, a little story we've been building between us in the last few letters. It is like I am talking to her directly. Very intimate. With this one, I've had an ongoing side conversation with the lady who is translating for us from the very first EMF. Every EMF I write the translator a short note at the beginning, and every response back from my lady friend has contained a nice reply back from the translator at the end. And those are very friendly and positive.
If I am understanding what you said correctly David, I am very glad (and a bit relieved), because a LOT of sparks are flying there. In fact, I am getting pretty close to shutting down the other contacts and focusing just on the lady in Wuhan.
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Roy (trwme)
Always always a good idea to have a good communication with your translator at these agencies, they can ease the your journey's path no end, there's no question about that!!
It would seem that the communication path is via email between your lady and the agency/translator, probably via her work computer. One way to test that, is to send an EMF outside of office hours. If you have to wait till the following day, then you know that her computer is office/work based. That's not to say that she doesn't have her own computer at home, as many do!!...
Can't see that your doing anything wrong right now Roy, follow your instincts, continue to use your commonsense, and any other tool that you can muster and see where it leads you... You never know, ...you may just have found your next and last wife !!! lol!!!
David....
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lol, well David, we have rivers to ford, bridges to cross, obstacles to overcome not to mention the pacific ocean to navigate before we are out of the woods to last wife status! I'll have to admit to a, ummm, certain level of excitement and see the potential perhaps for that. But common sense and the sound advice of the brotherhood here dictate not getting too far ahead of myself. Crawl before you walk, walk before you run, run before you try to jump too far ahead. We've established a rapport, I have gained a lot of confidence in our translator Cecily (and I think won her over judging by some of her comments), and have received some 'normal' everyday pics that show a woman not too different from the profile pics. Next step is webcam and private contact, but I have plenty of emf credits, so I am not going to push that for a while. I'm trusting my instincts and keeping my eyes open, and if I'm wrong I'll learn from it and apply the lessons the next time.
All the advice I've received here has been a big help, even including (and maybe especially) those who challenged me and slapped me around a bit with the reality of the situation. Still a long way to go, and I hope for and expect more of the same. The payoff at the end will be worth the lumps to my ego!
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good luck with your lady
Ted
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good luck with your lady
Ted
Thanks Ted! I haven't decided 100% to close down the other emf exchanges yet, but as you can tell I am leaning very heavily that way right now. This one just has something extra. We have this little ongoing story of a man and a woman we are bouncing back and forth at each other that gets threaded throughout each letter-kinda of talking around commitment things through these third person characters. 'I know this man who is looking for this woman, do you know her?' or 'I know this woman who is looking for this man, do you know him?' through all sorts of permutations and switches in perspectives. A lot of the questions and answers end up refering back to this story or done in the context of it. It's become the backbone of our correspondence. There is no way this is the product of the translator. I'll get to the bottom of how she is getting and sending her letters shortly, I hope. I asked her about this in my last emf to her, sent tonight.
As a sidenote to this, I can now verify what Willy said, at least in relation to the lady I've been writing in Tieling. She gets my letters read to her over the phone, and then she tells them over the phone what to say in response, they write it down and translate it and send it to me. I also want to correct something I said earlier too; I stated that she lived in the city where her agency is located, that was wrong, her agency is in Changchun and she lives in Tieling.
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i just wonder if the translator really does tell evrything she said or
do they put their own spin on it? when i was on their it seemed like
it took to many letters to get answers so i quit that place and went elsewere
to find my wife.
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One thing that needs to be added to my op in relation to this thread is;
Maxx's 24 hour rule As I understand this rule, I'd paraphrase it this way; If your lady says something that confuses you, angers you, or makes you wonder, or you just generally are not sure what it means, do not respond to her on it for 24 hours to give yourself a chance to think it over and get some advice from the brothers here.
I'm feeling the need to employ this rule on a couple of things in relation to my lady friend in Wuhan. So I'll explain them here and go through the process, lol.
In the course of discussion, I asked her about her family. she responded with the following;
About my family, my parents still live healthy here in Wuhan. They live not far from where I live, I usually go to visit them in my spare time. I have two sisters, I am the youngest child in my family. Now they both had their own family, we are very close to each other.
Then in my next letter to her, I asked her about sending me some everyday pics of herself (which she did send) and perhaps some of her family. She responded to that with the following;
My dear, you know that I live alone with (her daughter) now, my family didn't get together often, I have pictures about my family, but those were taken long long ago.
On the one hand she seems to say her family is close and see each other at least sometimes, on the other the second response seems to say something different. Maybe something got lost in translation here? After thinking about this since first noticing it, it doesn't seem as off now as it did at first-the 24 hour rule worked for me.
The second thing may be nothing, but not knowing the culture I thought I'd better ask before answering this one JUST in case. She asked me the following in her last letter;
Maybe you can give a nice English name to me and to (her daughter)? haha... Will you?
I am wondering if there is some signifigance to this request I better think about before I jump in and say yes, lol. Since it was a question from her, I didn't ignore it, but I finessed it so I didn't give her a yes or no answer-asking instead what the meaning of their chinese names is.
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One thing that needs to be added to my op in relation to this thread is;
Maxx's 24 hour rule As I understand this rule, I'd paraphrase it this way; If your lady says something that confuses you, angers you, or makes you wonder, or you just generally are not sure what it means, do not respond to her on it for 24 hours to give yourself a chance to think it over and get some advice from the brothers here.
I'm feeling the need to employ this rule on a couple of things in relation to my lady friend in Wuhan. So I'll explain them here and go through the process, lol.
In the course of discussion, I asked her about her family. she responded with the following;
About my family, my parents still live healthy here in Wuhan. They live not far from where I live, I usually go to visit them in my spare time. I have two sisters, I am the youngest child in my family. Now they both had their own family, we are very close to each other.
Then in my next letter to her, I asked her about sending me some everyday pics of herself (which she did send) and perhaps some of her family. She responded to that with the following;
My dear, you know that I live alone with (her daughter) now, my family didn't get together often, I have pictures about my family, but those were taken long long ago.
On the one hand she seems to say her family is close and see each other at least sometimes, on the other the second response seems to say something different. Maybe something got lost in translation here? After thinking about this since first noticing it, it doesn't seem as off now as it did at first-the 24 hour rule worked for me.
The second thing may be nothing, but not knowing the culture I thought I'd better ask before answering this one JUST in case. She asked me the following in her last letter;
Maybe you can give a nice English name to me and to (her daughter)? haha... Will you?
I am wondering if there is some signifigance to this request I better think about before I jump in and say yes, lol. Since it was a question from her, I didn't ignore it, but I finessed it so I didn't give her a yes or no answer-asking instead what the meaning of their chinese names is.
My two cents on this is first she is trying to be nice to you about family photos. she does not want to give them yet as you are not an accepted part of the family yet and she does not want to outright refuse your request. Her first response is probably correct and the second about the pictures is also correct you can't have them yet. I have no advise on the English name thing as I have never encountered this before.
Back to the pictures I do know that in their culture family is sacred and until you are accepted as part of the family she will be rather general in responding to your questions about them. She will try very hard not to tell you to much and at the same time not have to be forward and tell you it is none of your business unless she has to. My advise is to just let the picture thing drop and move to other subjects of interest to you both.
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My two cents on this is first she is trying to be nice to you about family photos. she does not want to give them yet as you are not an accepted part of the family yet and she does not want to outright refuse your request. Her first response is probably correct and the second about the pictures is also correct you can't have them yet. I have no advise on the English name thing as I have never encountered this before.
Back to the pictures I do know that in their culture family is sacred and until you are accepted as part of the family she will be rather general in responding to your questions about them. She will try very hard not to tell you to much and at the same time not have to be forward and tell you it is none of your business unless she has to. My advise is to just let the picture thing drop and move to other subjects of interest to you both.
Actually, I had thought of that, so thanks for confirming it. I'll let it drop. Have much to learn culturally :~)
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About the naming of them. I have seen it both ways. One is a come on. Ex: give me your English name for me so we can be closer faster type of thing." and that usually follows by I love you. That I have seen really early in the process. That is "usually" the start of a con. (Not always but most of the time I have seen.) The other thing is that she truly likes you and wants you to have the honor of naming her. I named my wife, but not until we had met. Now I have named her whole family and they have given me a Chinese name. So I cant give you any real accurate insight to it. Now most of the women/girls under 30 have already been given their English names. Every single one I have met thirty and under already have it.
About the pics, I absolutely believe they are correct in that. You are NOT a part of the family yet so you will not be given really private information on them as yet. Just some general things. Dont be dismayed by it. That is normal. You are doing Ok. you are moving forward with your eyes wide open. great start.
It is great to look for the red flags, but dont go too deep and try to analyze everything. You will drive yourself nuts doing that. Sit back and enjoy it. But dont put too much stock in anything you get from EMF's. You wont get the true woman until you get to private e mails. Ask most every man here that has been through it. There are a ton of threads pertaining to that very subject. Just read anything that has EMF's in the title. You are doing fine.
Jim
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Hi Jim,
Thanks so much for you input here. I had wondered if the naming thing could be a sort of committment, maybe like a pre-engagement type thing? She has asked if I'd give not only her, but her daughter 'good english names' as she put it. She is 41. The only name I had ever considered I might give one of these ladies is a last name, lol, so it kind of caught me off guard when she mentioned it.
To be honest, we have gotten really close already, or at least it seems that way. I have read many of the threads you mentioned though. So while I am enjoying the chemistry that is there in our emfs, I am also aware that may or may not be there when we get to more direct communication, or when 'face to face' time comes.
I've asked her how she gets my letters, and she told me that our translator reads them to her over the phone (she says she insists on every word I send being read to her) then she usually goes to the agency to write out her reply and have it translated and sent, although on occasion when she is short on time she writes it down and then calls it in to our translator. That fits what I've seen in the letters she has sent so far, they match the length of what I send (which are pretty long as you can guess by my posts on this forum!) and no detail is left unanswered or responded to. Little comments made in earlier letters are alluded to a couple of letters later. And while everything is responded to, it is not always in the order they were written in, i.e., sometimes things I said in the middle or towards the end of an emf are the first things she starts her next letter with. All kinds of little signs like that tell me this is a genuine conversation she and I are having. Time will bear that out though.
On the family thing, I've decided to be reactive instead of proactive. If she invites a comment or question by mentioning her family, I'll bite, otherwise I'll just concentrate on other things. I just have to let her invite me in at her pace. Plenty of other things to discuss and work on anyway. She did tell me in the letter I received last night that she has told some of her family about me, I am guessing she means her sisters. She also in a sly way asked me when I might be coming to see her.
I'll keep my eyes open, and keep running things past you guys here. I am having a hard time finding red flags though, and if it keeps going this way I think I'll be running up a white flag sometime in the not too distant future methinks.
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Your Right Jim, most if not all the Chinese were given Western names at the time of Infant School, but i would go back just a little further than 30 yrs, maybe back as much as 40!! Often the children that were given Western names would then give there mothers and fathers Western names, usually those that there best friends at school had been given. According to Lucy, it was part of their introduction into learning English, but few ever really got to learn English properly in those days, and most forgot what they learnt anyway as they had no way to use it. That's changing big time these days, as China is opening up more and more to the Western world along with the opportunities that brings to those that can converse in English....
David.....
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David,
thats just it they had no one to speak with back then but today
they look to speak it at any chance they get. i get stopped in Guangzhou
all the time and they start out with hello how are you and we usually
chat for 5 or 10 minutes. its on the list of nice things about living in China
as i enjoy talking to them and have made some great friends this way.
the conversation would lead to the national pastime here "did you eat"
and so hence the start of a freindship
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An update and how the ladies receive their letters. I've received an answer from all three of the ladies I am writing on how they receive/send their letters. Their answers represent a mix, as Vince stated in his response.
My lady friend in Wuhan receives a phone call, and the entire letter is read to her. She then writes down her response, and usually goes to the agency to have it translated and sent, although she says when she is short on time she will call it in after writing it down.
The lady in Tieling gets hers over the phone, and calls in her response to the agency.
The lady in Chendu receives a call letting her know she has a letter, the agency then translates it for her and sends it to her personal email. She then writes a response, sends it via email to her agency, who then translate and send that to me.
Ironically, the one this process works slowest with is the lady in Chengdu, who does hers through her personal email. Hers are also the shortest letters. Perhaps the slowness is an agency issue, or perhaps she's too busy to write quickly-or perhaps she has other fish on the line. She was the one I was most interested in initially, and I sent her the first EMF I wrote. I was several letters into conversation with the other two before I ever received her initial response.
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My experience in this:
My fiancée only got 2 EMFs from me, she was notified, shown some of my pics but the responses were sent by the agency with her agreement but without her input. She did not read my letters. We QQ'ed after 2 EMFs ... I also talked to a second lady in this fashion, no input from her in the letters and she did not read mine.
2 others got notified and got the letters read to them on the phone and/or emailed (they both spoke English although their profile info on Chnlove stated "learning"), one got the agency to respond entirely on her behalf without her input, the other would give some general directions for the reply but the letter was pulled together by the translator.
Another one got my EMFs translated in her email and wrote her replies herself in Chinese, we checked and the translations were very accurate both ways. She was the exception though.
I think a lot of the ladies want to meet the men to see if they are interesting, the letter writing business seems secondary, add to that the amount of fake profiles (I had my share), and you know what I think of the EMF system.
Frank
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So far I have used 62 EMFs. A handful of the replies were definitely really by the ladies, maybe 5? The number of actual direct contacts? After my blocking, 4 said they would contact me directly... but so far, zilch. I have 20 more EMFs. When that is gone, I will also be gone from CHN. Doing a lot better elsewhere, I got phone chats with close to 20 ladies at another site, it would have been 30-40 if I included those whom I didn't particularly wanted to know.
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About the naming of them. I have seen it both ways. One is a come on. Ex: give me your English name for me so we can be closer faster type of thing." and that usually follows by I love you. That I have seen really early in the process. That is "usually" the start of a con. (Not always but most of the time I have seen.) The other thing is that she truly likes you and wants you to have the honor of naming her. I named my wife, but not until we had met.
Well, I wanted to return to this, since my lady in Wuhan has brought this up a couple of times. I've followed what you say here Jim, and said let's wait until we meet before I give her an english name. Now she is telling me to come as soon as I can, lol.
On a related note, this lady is trying to move me along pretty fast. She's not pushy about it, but is gently persistent. She has taken ownership it seems, calling me 'her' Roy. she usually puts things in the context of 'if things go well with us', but it is obvious she is making plans for that to happen. so I've started pushing to get beyond the EMFs, and in my last EMF I queried her about when we could have a webcam meeting, and about other ways we can communicate more directly (personal email, phone, texting, etc.). Waiting on the reply to that presently.
The 'L' word hasn't been used yet-at least, not in the context of 'I love you'. She does tell me often how happy she is and how happy my letters make her, and in her last letter she says how she 'loves' this feeling. Her name means 'happy' and she thanks me for giving her name meaning. It's hard not to respond in kind to that kind of thing, but I can't help but wonder a bit. On the one hand it seems like we've been talking forever, because the emf's have been flying back and forth (daily), and they are all quite long in both directions. On the other hand...it hasn't really been that long. Any of you experienced this with your ladies? I know, probably a dumb question there, lol.
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Roy - my lady took ownership of me at quite an early stage. I don't think this is anything to worry about!
I do know my lady spoke to a few men before me, but I guess as time got on she was more desparate to get someone to visit her. You have to remember that of the tens of thousands of men on chnlove, very few actually make that trip. Until you make that trip, a lady will keep her options open.
My lady had an English name, but she didn't seem to use it much. Maybe she got it in high school as it was quite old fashioned. Ask her about her Chinese name, they are often given their names for a reason :icon_cheesygrin:.
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Roy - my lady took ownership of me at quite an early stage. I don't think this is anything to worry about!....Ask her about her Chinese name, they are often given their names for a reason :icon_cheesygrin:.
Well, I think I am liking being owned by this woman so far...as long as we can get off the emfs and things are the same or close to it. I already asked about her chinese name, it means 'happy' (she told me), and that her mom had given it to her hoping she would always be happy.
I just wanted to add something and ask some help, lol.
She gave me her phone # in the letter I got tonight.
But she didn't give me the prefix for China, so can anyone give me this? Never made an international call before, much less to China.
And what is the proper pronunciation for the name 'Xin'?????
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i think more like shin mike
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Nina's name was pronounced more like Seen. I think you better ask her yourself...
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My wife tells me that it is more like 'cin' the same sound as the start of Xinnian Kuaile (Happy New Year)
I guess our British, Canadian and American accents are giving us different sounds!!
Willy
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lol, well, I guess I'll just have to ask her when we talk. She says she speaks a little english, and I have a very limited chinese vocabulary-one word, lol. But ya gotta start somewhere I quess. Appropriate I guess, since the name of this thread is baby steps!
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Roy
thats the spirit you have to start somewere
why not here right?
Willy,
I think your right but i also have had discusions
with people here and they seem to all have a
different take on pronounciation at times. and
then you have the different cities dialog
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Mike's right... Xin is pronounced sin as in sinfully...
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Mike and mustfocus have got it right.
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Roy
thats the spirit you have to start somewere
why not here right?
Here's the cool thing Ted. I didn't have to insist, demand, or threaten to get her phone #. In my last emf to her I simply said that eventually, we needed to move past the emf to more direct contact, like a webcam meeting, or private email, or phone or texting, etc. I said we didn't have to do this right away, just soon.
And she chose to give me her phone # in the response to that. Guess she was ready for more direct contact also?
Mike and mustfocus have got it right.
lol....now that just figures. Here I am, I write articles and post them online all the time about God and the bible, and now I am involved with a woman named Sin.......8~O
At least her name doesn't mean 'sin'.....whew......................guess I better hurry up and give her that 'good english name' she asked me for!!!!!!!!!!!!
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You are all right with ''Cin and Sin'', particularly Willy, who pointed out that it is mainly the pronunciation of ''Xin'' by Americans and the other English speakers ''Sin and Cin'' is exactly the same!
Roy, ....A little bit of ''Sin'' is always ''good'' in a relationship, ...adds just that little bit of spice as they say!! ...haha!!
David....
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Roy, ....A little bit of ''Sin'' is always ''good'' in a relationship, ...adds just that little bit of spice as they say!! ...haha!!
David....
lol...well David, so far things have been 'sinfully' easy with this woman. Like I told Ted, I didn't have to throw a tantrum, make threats or demands to the agency, to get her personal contact info. I simply suggested that we needed to start talking more directly sometime soon, an BAM...very next letter contained her phone #. Makes me kinda suspicious in a way, given all the horror stories I've read here. I've also received plenty of normal everyday pics from her, same woman and still very attractive, although of course the home pics aren't quite the same as the professional ones. I guess time will tell. I'm suppose to call her saturday, and I just finished setting up my international calling plan on my phone.
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Roy,
just an fyi for you-- remember the 16 hour time difference when you call
her. i used to get up at 4 am and make my calls as it was 8 pm there.
im sure you know this but just wanted to say it incase in all the new
developments you might have forgotten
Ted
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Roy,
just an fyi for you-- remember the 16 hour time difference when you call
her. i used to get up at 4 am and make my calls as it was 8 pm there.
im sure you know this but just wanted to say it incase in all the new
developments you might have forgotten
Ted
Hi Ted, thanks, I had remembered-and she had also reminded me, lol. But I think the difference between where I am and where she is is 14 hours? She's in Wuhan, I am just north of St. Louis. I googled up a site that gives the time differences between all major cities, and it told me the difference was 14 hours. so yeah...I'll be up before the sun. I get up around 4 a lot of times anyway, and it's a day off for me this week, so I can go back to bed for a bit if I want after we talk.
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Roy,
My girls name is xin jiao and she pronounces it sing chow. I like the sing much better. Of course she speaks Cantonese so there may be a difference in pronunciation.
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Shaun there is a little difference between the two as i have found
out
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Not going to go through the Xin/Sin/Cin debate again, but jiao is something you guys should know... because it's the base for Martin's favourite food, jiaozi. :icon_cheesygrin:
But that's in putonghua. Ji-ow-zi...
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Not only did my Chinese teacher teach us jiaozi, she actually made us some!
We also had to learn beijing kaoya, but she hasn't brought that it yet :icon_cheesygrin:.
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The problem is that Beijing Kaoya made traditionally will take several hours. There are ways around that, but you need the proper gear.
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ok i will bite---whats bejing kaoya??
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Peking duck. :icon_cheesygrin:
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This only gets better. Peggy is my little dumpling?
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Ok, just got off the phone with Sin. She pronounced it 'Seen'. So Neil is the winner of the Xin pronounciation contest, lol.
What a beautiful sweet voice, and she sounded just as I imagined from our letters-very happy, playful, always laughing. We talked for about 45 minutes, she taught me a little chinese, and I helped her with her english pronunciations. Whatever small doubts I had before are gone now, going to halt all contacts with anyone else, although to be honest I've already pretty much done that, anyway.
I realize that at this point, it may or may not work out in the end, but I just want to say this. Cecily, our translator at the Wuhan agency, has done a great job. The personalty that came through in our letters is the personalty I just experienced on the phone. While it's obvious that some of the agencies aren't to be trusted, at this point I'd recommend Wuhan Oriental Love Consulting Company P509. I can't say what the rest of the translators there are like, but if Cecily is a good gauge they are excellent. And of course, it depends on how involved your lady is in the writing of the letters; Xin has told me she usually writes hers down and takes them to the agency. Maybe I just got incredibly lucky, but I am very satisfied with the money I've spent there.
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I might have to try that agency, I am drawn once again to Wuhan. When are you going Roy? I might go in late April if I find someone worth visiting.
Have you seen her on webcam?
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I might have to try that agency, I am drawn once again to Wuhan. When are you going Roy? I might go in late April if I find someone worth visiting.
Have you seen her on webcam?
Well, it's going to be the fall at least before I can go. I have two issues to clear up, one of them being a custody fight over my daughter which will impact when I can go. That will be over the first part of next month, at which point I will be able to plan. This is also the beginning of the busiest time at the place where I work, and since I've burned up my vacation time going to court already I'll have to work that out, which pretty much means it will be sometime in the fall when things slow down at work before I'll be able to take the at least two weeks off I want to take.
I haven't see her on webcam, no, but she's sent me plenty of normal pics taken at her home. Of course they aren't as slick and flattering as the professional photos, but she is the same woman and still attractive-to me at least! But it's her laughing, playful personalty that's drawn me in.
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trwme,
good to hear that all is good. my wife did the same thing to me when we chatted
on web cam and still does. she has that playful personality along with these goofy
faces she makes when we are talking and haveing fun that i found very attractive
along with her laugh. and sometimes she makes these really cute remarks that make
no sense but with the funny face and laughing i find them really cute. i am sure as you
continue with her all things will be well.
Ted
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Well, right now I'm awaiting her response to the emf I sent her after our phone chat this morning. I basically asked for us to be exclusive. I think I know what her answer will be, but I'm not going to assume too much before the fact-although I've already hidden my profile, and put the other ladies I'd written in the past on my blocked list. I have 35 credits left and I intend to use them with Xin, depending on how she feels about things.
The word that keeps going through my head is 'enchanting', lol.
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Grats, Roy!
No wonder I never hear from you anymore ! lolz :icon_cheesygrin:
I am also now talking to more ladies than I can easily handle (over the phone) and my phone bills will be titanic this month. But things are looking much better than when I started.
Keep us posted k?
Peking duck. :icon_cheesygrin:
Ah yes, I have tried it in many places, Beijing & elsewhere.... but the best in terms of price I ever had was in.... of all places, Kunming !!!
In Beijing it is usually Y30-50/duck, so far as I knew, but only Y10 in Kunming, where in addition they roasted it in pine cones to give that heavenly aroma. You guys should try it if you happen to go there.
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Grats, Roy!
No wonder I never hear from you anymore ! lolz :icon_cheesygrin:
I am also now talking to more ladies than I can easily handle (over the phone) and my phone bills will be titanic this month. But things are looking much better than when I started.
Keep us posted k?
Well, I DID ask ya to tie me to the freakin' mast...see what happens? Dived right in....
Sitting on pins and needles right now awaiting her reply to my last emf, lol, hope I didn't speak too soon! As soon as I hear from her, I'll give the official word on the status....
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Ok, it's official now, she told me tonight she is mine. I got the easy part out of the way, now on to developing the relationship, learning the language, and getting the heck over there to meet in person. Since it seems customary here to post a pic of your lady, I'll go ahead and post a couple-one is an agency photo not on her profile, and the other is one of the 'regular' home photos she's sent me. Hopefully the photos are sized properly, and if there is somewhere else here these are to be posted, let me know.
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Congratulations Roy. Nice looking lady. Hope that all works out for you.
Dave C
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Thanks Bee. I feel very lucky and blessed at this so far. There's a long way to go and I have a ton of work to do, but I am getting after it.
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Yeah, congrats Roy! Hope this relationship will cement really quickly.
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Roy, calm down and take your time.
Ok, will do.
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Roy,
I am going to meet my lady the end of march. I am having trouble staying calm too. Just relax and continue on with getting everything else in your life settled. Then when you're ready go meet her. You will find that you will be meeting her before you know it.
Dave C
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Well, it'll be late fall/winter before I can go to meet her more than likely, at the earliest. Not because of money, but because of work issues. I've let her know this, and she says she'll wait. But she's also let me know that she was involved with another man in the past who promised to come, and never did. So I'm trying to show her that I am serious about it, and the main way I can do that right now is to work hard at learning the language. That's my main focus, and what I was refering to when I said I was 'getting after it'.
Good luck with your lady Dave, I'll look forward to your reports when the time comes!
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She's a lovely lady.
You need to work on getting out to China as soon as you can - these ladies have heard it all before.
Don't worry about the language. I got all the way to my Wuhan hotel on "ni hao" and "xie xie". I knew even less Japanese in Tokyo, but it didn't seem to matter :icon_cheesygrin:.
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My my, no wonder Roy is putty in her hands :icon_cheesygrin:
Good job, now you gotta maintain the freshness til fall, there ain't no mast on the steamboat, it's a very long time til Sep/Oct.
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She's a lovely lady.
You need to work on getting out to China as soon as you can - these ladies have heard it all before.
Don't worry about the language. I got all the way to my Wuhan hotel on "ni hao" and "xie xie". I knew even less Japanese in Tokyo, but it didn't seem to matter :icon_cheesygrin:.
Thanks Brett. I want to get there as soon as it is realistic to do so, and I broached the subject of a couple of weeks off later on this year with my boss today. At least he didn't say no way, lol.
I'm mainly trying to learn the language for a couple of reasons, one to show her I'n serious and working at this too, and for another to help us build up our direct personal communication. Plus, once I get to Wuhan I'd like to not have to drag a translator around with us everywhere we go, lol....might want a little time alone?
My my, no wonder Roy is putty in her hands :icon_cheesygrin:
Good job, now you gotta maintain the freshness til fall, there ain't no mast on the steamboat, it's a very long time til Sep/Oct.
lol...uh huh, I'm her little puppy dog right now. And you more than anyone else know a bit more about the inside skinny here, lol. She had me from Ni Hao. Fortunately for me I'm a romantic at heart, and I have a good imagination to go with my writing skills, so hopefully I can maintain her interest long enough to meet in person...........don't need a mast to be tied to anymore, lol, just going to enjoy the ride and see where I'm being taken to.
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Roy,
just follow your heart in this. not knowing what the two of you are
writing but it does seem to be working out well for the 2 of you as
you seem to be happy with her. and your correct learning the language
does show that your serious about it and she will notice this and very
much appreciate that.successful relationships take a lot of work on both
sides of the equation.
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Roy,
just follow your heart in this. not knowing what the two of you are
writing but it does seem to be working out well for the 2 of you as
you seem to be happy with her. and your correct learning the language does show that your serious about it and she will notice this and very much appreciate that. successful relationships take a lot of work on both sides of the equation.
Thanks Ted, I always appreciate the encouragement you give to me, and others here. At some point love involves following the heart and taking the risks that come with that. She had a bad experience with someone who made promises and never followed through on them, and I want to show her that's not the case with me. And I can't sit back and let her do all the work of learning my language while I don't do the same for her-we are in this together, wherever it leads in the end. My learning will help her learn, and help me be able to help her learn, and help me understand her better as well. Hopefully this will help build her trust in me for the future.
And yes, I am very happy with her:icon_cool:
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i just hope you do better with the chinese than i am doing i
feel stupid hahaha as i have a very hard time retaining it and
i never had this problem learning anything except for calculus
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Well, I have learned a little, some basic things like hello, goodbye, thank you, what time is it, stuff like that...trying to push past that...but it'll take me a while before I can distinguish the words and be able to identify them by hearing it spoken, beyond the simple things I've already learned. I work on it for a while every night before bed (after writing Xin) and for a bit in the mornings before work. But it ain't easy, lol. Trying to get some of the word orders down.
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Mandarin was the hardest thing I have ever learned. It took me two years of study to just get the "words" down to speak them then I found out that is not the same as hearing a person say them in a dynamic conversation. I knew the words and the structure of the language but could not communicate what I knew with a native speaker. It took almost a full 120 days and 3 trips to China before I could hold simple dynamic conversations that made any sense at all to the person I was trying to talk with. I like to think that Mandarin is a conceptual language. the words and sentences convey a concept. English it is not the words or the sentence that conveys the meaning but the context that they are used that convey it. In mandarin each word conveys a concept and when these concepts are put together only then does the meaning make sense. Very difficult to learn.
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Mandarin was the hardest thing I have ever learned. It took me two years of study to just get the "words" down to speak them then I found out that is not the same as hearing a person say them in a dynamic conversation. I knew the words and the structure of the language but could not communicate what I knew with a native speaker. It took almost a full 120 days and 3 trips to China before I could hold simple dynamic conversations that made any sense at all to the person I was trying to talk with. I like to think that Mandarin is a conceptual language. the words and sentences convey a concept. English it is not the words or the sentence that conveys the meaning but the context that they are used that convey it. In mandarin each word conveys a concept and when these concepts are put together only then does the meaning make sense. Very difficult to learn.
Nicely put Lee.... and it seems you have a Chinese name too, like Bruce Lee? hehe... maybe it helps you "get the language" faster? :icon_cheesygrin:
It is a combo of 2-4 words that sometimes give a "concept" that has meaning beyond the individual words, sometimes the meaning comes from cultural or historical anecdotes.... English too has this, it is called idioms, or proverbs.
P/S - when in China keep your eyes peeled for a "fast food joint" called "Mr Lee's beef noodles" or similar.... its logo looks helluva lot like Col Sanders' good ol Kentucky Fried haha :icon_cheesygrin:
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no its not easy and i cant do with my mandarin lessons like i did
with calculus classes which i dropped as fast as i could get into another
class for the credits. just boggles my mind that i cannot seem to retain
everything at this rate i will be 100 when i could talk normal sentences
and not have anyone fill in the blanks for me.
but i must admit i am entertaining sometimes as it reminds me of playing
charades as they all try to figure out what the hell i am saying lol
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well, my best lessons are the ones she gives me on the phone, lol. But then that probably has more to do with hearing her voice and her constant laughter and giggling!
I've started writing down what she teaches me as it sounds to me, rather than worrying about the pinyan spelling, which makes no sense to me.