China Romance
General Discussion and Useful Links => Ask An Experienced Member => Topic started by: mickw on August 14, 2010, 06:59:56 pm
-
Hello Guys
This enquiry is directed at the members whohave been through the mariage to their ladies,and my question is regarding the red envelope issue.
Lin Fang spent 5 months with me here in the UK from November 2009 till April this year via a visitors visa we secured, she was here in the UK through some of the worst weather we suffered over December to February and she adapted well to life here ,went to a scripture based school to improve her english ,and we both thought her visit here would be a good sounding out period for both of us ,see if she could cope with the vastly different cultures and customs here and indeed if we could cope with each other long term too !!!!.She was due to return after 3 months here to Keep her job ,but as her time to return approached she said she wanted to stay for the duration of her visa and let her job go ,so i changed the flight for one 2 months hence,and figured if she was willing to give up her job ,as a doctor by the way ,for me this was a show of her solid love for me.
We got engaged here ,and after she returned we have daily contact on QQ sometime twice a day.Im returning to China at the end of august to tie the knot,having aquired the cert of no impediment and all the rest of the paperwork and Visa,she has set the date for the wedding dinner for the 9th of September,and i have a question re the red envelope.
Lin fang has tried to explain how it works ,but regrettably the grammar is lost in translation ,even with her translator software and her hand held one
Having read several threads on this subject,I was under the impression that we are supposed to give out the envelopes to the guests and they give us one back in return,and in some cases get more money returned than is given out
However im led to beleive,as far as i can make out from Lin Fang ,their custom is only to receive a red envelope from the guests ,which we apparently give back to them in politeness ,meaning thanks but no thanks the wedding dinner is on us ,a different take on what i have read and obviously this leads to confusion.
anyone clarify this situation please?
Another situation is that she wants to invite circa 40 guests namely family and close friends,no problem with that but also shes wanting to buy some sweets for her other friends namely the ones who shes not inviting to the wedding and also her past colleagues and school friends,amounting to some 130 bags of sweets @28 RMB each which in monetary terms amounts to over £300,a figure which i find rather excessive for sweets ,when it could be put to better use towards her wife visa we will apply for after were married .
This is her and my 2nd marriage so i think the sweet thing for some people who shes maybe not seen for years seems a bit pointless,in my opinion.
again guys your views appreciated
Cheers
Mick
-
As Ted Said I have seen some guys get roped into a bunch of cash and more. And others nothing.
Myself I bought some very nice gifts for them which is what my wife told me I should do.
I think the best advice is to go with on this, is do whatever you wife tells you. She knows the culture and her family better than you ever will.
And I am sure she loves you very much and will not want you to do the wrong thing.
Many times what they tell us to do as far as things that are different in cultures seem very strange. But I am sure they feel the same way about many things we ask them to do. Trust is more important than ever, She will not let you lose face or get hurt you already know that. They truly are steel rods swathed in flowers,
-
Hello Mick,
When my wife and I were married we only received red envelopes at our marriage ceremony. In fact what everyone gave was meticulously written down in a bound book to be kept as some sort of record, I think. My wife only paid for the wedding the day after ???and what was in the envelopes more than covered this. At the time of course I knew nothing about it, so it was a nice surprise to have the wedding paid for by the guest's ;D.There are so many different customs out there that it's hard to know what to do, best thing I can suggest is what Jimmy said, let your wife handle the whole thing and just hang on for the ride! We gave out sweets to people who did not attend our wedding and ones that did too. I would go along with the price, it's her big day and it gives lots of "Face" to you both and her friends as well. Congratulations! Happy days to come!
-
I cannot answer on the red enevlope. We neither gave any or received any. Neither did we have any get together ceremony after the wedding office official business. Having a fancy weddng the second time around was not on the agenda. It did not help the first time so why should it help on the second? Or am I just being synical?
We have been to gether a year now and the love is the same now as it was back in 2009.
Willy
-
Hi Mick,
I have heard that the guy gives the parents 10 to 30,000rmb as a gift. Unfortunately, I did not have that much money to give my in-laws, so I didn't. I paid for the wedding banquet which was about $3,000 US for 100 people. When the guest came, they gave their red envelopes and my mother in-law kept them. My wife told me it was about 20,000rmb. My wife told me that she has gone to other people's wedding banquets and given 400rmb, so it is expected for the friends to give back the same amount if not more. We did not give out red envelopes to the guest and I believe that is the tradition, but nothing says you can't. As for the candy, we did the same. We bought little boxes and put in our own candy. My wife and her friends did this before I went to China for the wedding banquet. My wife basically planned the wedding banquet and I paid for it.
Keith
-
We have been to gether a year now and the love is the same now as it was back in 2009.
Willy
Willy,
Are you saying that the love you have for your wife has not deepened over the past year? I am just curious about this. ;)
Dave C
-
dave,
he is old and cant remember from 1 day to the next hahaha
-
Mick,
I gave 18,000 RMB because my wife's brother-in-law gave that particular amount to his bride ... so I had to match it. We got back only 1,250 RMB back in banquet red envelopes. Most of my wife's relatives gave gold jewellery instead.
-
We have been to gether a year now and the love is the same now as it was back in 2009.
Willy
Willy,
Are you saying that the love you have for your wife has not deepened over the past year? I am just curious about this. ;)
Dave C
Who was talking about my love and my wife? When she can finally read English then I am in BIG, BIG Trouble.
Willy
-
Who was talking about my love and my wife? When she can finally read English then I am in BIG, BIG Trouble.
Willy
[/quote]
Or even before...... when I come for a visit in September.... ;D ;D
-
Mick
Whereabouts in China will you be going too...I seem to have forgotten?
-
Hi Guys
Thanks for all the advice and input,seems the best way to go is leave it to my future other half and run with her,customs and family ways obviously differ from province to province.
Hi Rob ,im away to HKK with Qatar air via Doha on the 26 th and connect to Fuzhou in Fujian province with Dragon air 3 hours after landing in HKK ,get to Fuzhou at 7 pm on the 27th and i think were getting the train to Lin Fang's town which is a spot called Xiapu a couple of hours away .Im taking my little 8 year old daughter with me this time ,shes going to be a bridesmaid at the wedding so shes chuffed about that .Im hoping to take a trip to the great wall if time permits.I think Lin Fang is planning our actual marriage at the marriage office early on when i get there and the wedding dinner is set for the 9th of september.
Ill try and report things when im there ,but if not ill post some pics and reports when im back in blighty
Cheers
Mick
-
Good luck with your 8 year old. I took my 7 year old last fall. She had a blast. We did have some difficulty finding food that she would eat...or at least recognize, then eat. She got really good at using chop sticks. She was pretty well treated like royalty while I was there. I look forward to reading about your trip.
-
You will need to make some plans for your daughters involvement. If she is to be bridesmaid it will be very difficult at the marriage office. It is not like a ceremony as in a UK registrars office.
You get the paperwork filled out and just sit back whilst they enter the details. You read from a declaraition page and so does the lady. You sit back again and they give you a little red book and your married.
One thing that you should check on right away is can the office in the ladies home town actually marry you! My wife's home city in Hengyang but they cannot marry foreigners as they did not have foreigners facilities and we had to go to Changsha.
Make sure that they can do it and plan accordingly.
Willy
-
One thing that you should check on right away is can the office in the ladies home town actually marry you! My wife's home city in Hengyang but they cannot marry foreigners as they did not have foreigners facilities and we had to go to Changsha.
Willy
I had the same thing. My wife and I could not marry in Zixing. We also had to go to Changsha...a 4 hour train ride. But that's alright, because I really like Changsha...definitely my favorite city in China so far.
-
We had to go to Changsha as well as no facility in Henyang but will differ on one point. I rank is as not being one of my favourite cities. Not much lower than Shenzhen and Guangzhou.
And my wife thought we may buy a home in HuNan Province. ROFL and still laughing - one contest I won hands down. I want to stay in Zhonghan.
Willy
-
and again whats wrong with guangzhou??
-
Ahhh yes, China, loud shirts, .... must be Guangzhou! And there is absolutely nothing wrong with any of that!! One can be quite stylish wearing loud shirts in Guangzhou! 8)
Dave C
-
well you should be back in china now and be getting married soon. just wanted to say congratulations
and just sit back and follow your wifes lead on all the planning. by the way the candy bag gifts are a really
nice touch as everyone really appreciates them.
-
You will need to make some plans for your daughters involvement. If she is to be bridesmaid it will be very difficult at the marriage office. It is not like a ceremony as in a UK registrars office.
You get the paperwork filled out and just sit back whilst they enter the details. You read from a declaraition page and so does the lady. You sit back again and they give you a little red book and your married.
One thing that you should check on right away is can the office in the ladies home town actually marry you! My wife's home city in Hengyang but they cannot marry foreigners as they did not have foreigners facilities and we had to go to Changsha.
Make sure that they can do it and plan accordingly.
Willy
Thanks for the advice Willy my old china,but things do and did differ in Fuzhou today when we tied the knot yesterday.
Firstly after i had got my cert of no impeciment in the UK i emailed Lin Fang with both sides of the cert ,which is the side we get from the Registry office,and on the back is attached the legalisation stamp from the home office and the authentication from the Chinese embassy in London .Fang took this copy to the Marriage office and checked it was what they required ,they comfirmed this was all in order and all they needed.
So we caught the train late on Sunday night into Fuzhou ,and the following morning went to the original marriage office only to find it had moved in the last month ,so another taxi jaunt to the new office .We filled out a form and got some copies ot the relevant pages of out passports,paid 200 RMB and were told to get 3 pictures together for the records,one for each red book and the other they keep on record and come back tomorrow .
They were not interested in mine or Lin Fangs decrees of divorce or indeed my self penned single cert i had done .
Off we went in the afternoon to a digital process shop ,and jesus these guys using adobe are amazing ,made me look almost human .30RMB was the cost of the passport sized pictures of us both.
This morning we were off at 9.30 to the office ,the girl checked the pics were us ,made out the red marriage book for both of us ,we both signed another form ,cost 9 RMB for this mornings offerings and bingo we were married.
Actually Willy as you say, my daughter had no part in the actual visits to do the formalities part of the marriage as above ,her part i guess will be on the 9 th when we have the Bun Fight in Xiapu.
So up and coming brothers on the road to getting hitched in china,whichever country your from ,make sure you ,as other brotheres have stated before ,that you check out the relevant requirements,rules and regulations, as obviously things do differ between provinces.
And now we start the difficult part .............the Visa application,the Uk guys be aware the beaurocratic t..ts have re jigged forms round ,and made it a right minefield ,it took me all night checking the various forms before i got the right one (assuming i have ) im using VAF4A SETTLEMENT
Update on the Bun Fight on the 9 th will maybe after im back,unless i can find time before i return ,along with some pics hopefully
Cheers
Mick
-
better to be over prepared than to get there and need something you dont have
just a thought
-
To bring back the " Red Envelpoe " , Qing and I were discussing when we are going back for a Visit . This is when the Hammer came down on that thought .
The way she explained it to me , it could come out much more expensive then I had in Mind . First , going back " from America " to a big City like Shanghai ..and let's say .. she has a lot of Aunt's and Uncle's / Brother's and Sister's ( if she's older of course 40 +) . This would mean , bringing a Red Envelope with us for .. first the Parent's .. then all the other's I have mentioned in the Top Rank's of the Family living in this City your going back to . So now we discuss , how much are we talking about here ? Qing's answer is from 1000 to 3000 yuan ( RMB's ) for each , with the Parent's of course at the higher end . Any less of a Thousand would lose Face not only for Qing and myself , but Aunt's and Uncle's as well . This is not where it will end though . If more Member's in other City's , they will be told of this and more Face is lost . Qing said , you put a couple (2)100's into an Envelope .. they will actually throw this away and be insulted .. especially coming from America . Yes I know , the elder's still think we swim in Money here . But try to change their Mind ! Good Luck !
So it's not over after the Wedding only , this Red Envelope thing . Now there are expection to any Rule , but be careful with those Chinese Custom's and safe your own Face along with you Lady's ect. ect. .
-
Dang Arnold. :o :( What can I say but dang. Where does this all end? At some point the people over there need to understand that all American are not rich and that we are not a vast resource of money for them. What about them adopting a few American customs since their daughters married an American man?
Gee I wish it were April 1!
-
Gee Shaun , it's easy for you guys in America , just ring OooooBanana and ask him for some of those dollars he is printing , regards Sujuan and Robert .
-
I know it sounds evel , but my LaoPo also advised " Us " not to go that often . That was some kind of relief . :-\
-
I was talking to Ming about the Red Envelope stuff as portrayed in your post Arnold.
I asked her what will we need to do when we go back to China for holidays, after she comes here to live.
her answer "NO, I never heard of such a thing, my family and friends would not expect gifts of money from us. It would be nice if we take them all out to dinner, but no red envelopes"
I guess it is an individual thing, and each family must work it out for themselves.
I told Ming that I am not a Bank Account for her friends and family....she agreed, completely.
-
Dear Mickw.
The red envelopes are both given to the bride and groom and by the groom. It is a very cool and fun tradition in some parts of China. The ones given out by the groom are the fun ones in my opinion. I guess it will depend on how well you know her friends and family, but the ones given by the groom are "ransom" paid to receive your bride. The brides friends and family will require "tests" to get past them to get your prize. One can perform the "tests" or just give out the "ransom" .
I have included a link from you tube that shows the game. There are a bunch of videos there if you are interested.funny crazy games in chinese wedding (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kN15d7hXNCk#)
Best of luck to the both of you and remember HAVE FUN!!!!
-
This is exactly why I decided to avoid looking for a Shanghai woman. No offense Arnold, but the vast majority of Shanghai people have the reputation of being very money hungry. It's a shame that many bad apples have spoiled the reputation for the few good ones.
-
Shaun.....dont say "dang"...just say NO !!!!! ;D ;D ;D
Cheers..David
-
James, I don't know if you have read Rhonald's thread about his big wedding day, but he had some real fun and games with the red envelopes.
Reading this stuff got me to thinking how the whole red envelopes thing started so while I'm sat at my computer waiting for some school books to download I thought I'd find out.So here it is.......
The legend of red envelopes
In China, during the time of the Sung Dynasty, a legend arose that the village people of Chang-Chieu were living in fear of an evil presence among them. No one could rid the town of this evil, dragon-like creature, not even the greatest noblemen or strongest warriors. The villagers lived in constant fear. Then, one day, a brave, young man, whose ancestors bequeathed to him a magical sword, called a Ma Dao, waited for the dragon to appear. Unflinching, the young man, wielding his magical sword, defeated the evil presence of the dragon and it was no more. The villagers were so relieved and thankful that they had the elders present, to the brave, young man, ang pow, a red packet filled with money. The villagers believed that by giving this red packet to the heroic, young man that they, the young man and their village would be blessed. And so, from that happy day in the village of Chang-Chieu, and throughout the centuries, the story has become a Chinese tradition, in giving a red envelope as a blessing.
-
Thanks Paul ;D I finally found it! Mick W. it is called "The hunt for red October.....shoes" in the -Your Trip to China section.
I find this all to be very good fun and gives everyone a chance to join in the fun of a very special day.
One question I must ask Paul .... the evil presence in the house or village (as the story goes)....is that the Bride?? Is she the evil dragon-like creature?? :o keeping the house or village living in fear?? If so I think I know where I keep my magical sword. ;D
All I know for sure is I will be armed with the envelopes and a couple extra pairs of red shoes in my coat.
-
I'm sorry to hear that some of you have to give a "red envelope" just because we come from America, Australia, or any other westernized country. I guess some Chinese people assume that coming from the West means we are rich. I guess it depends on where your wife is from. I can totally understand where Arnold is coming from. Maybe you go back and give nothing to anyone and you get the dirty stare. The next time, they will not expect anything. That is as long as you can tolerate the bad thoughts. I am lucky and in the same boat as David E. My wife is from Chengdu as well and her family do not expect a cent from me. I do take them out to a nice dinner though. I think you can always have your wife explain that it is not the Western way to give money, but instead take everyone out to a nice dinner. That is just my thought.
-
I'm sorry to hear that some of you have to give a "red envelope" just because we come from America, Australia, or any other westernized country.
Dear Auburn please don't misunderstand -this tradition isn't because we are western grooms-This is a tradition in many parts of China-and it is one that many of Chinese grooms go through- It has nothing to do with where the groom is from.
I wish I could have a traditional Chinese wedding like Rhonald, with all the festivities and fun, but since this is Pings second marriage, all I will see is a simple paper signing and dinner with the family.Ping assures me that this is fine by her,but what I wouldn't give to make it a day that she would always remember.
We have to remember as Western men -This is their Country -their customs - their traditions, and we are there to take away their most prized treasures --their daughters.
-
I stand by what Qing said , as this was done among her Family for years . This comes with (especially ) her Parent's most likely giving it back at some point and some way . The Aunt's and Uncle's do NOT . But when leaving back to Home , they will shower you with Gift's ( not Money ) . So it's not all that bad .
Also just found out , Qing's brother's Wife ( which works for an American Co . ) actually wants to bring Qing's Son over to us .. so to save us the Money going there . Again , I do not think it's all because they Money-Hungry .. it's just a Family thing .
Neil , I understand you avoided SH Girl's , but on the other Hand .. they are more westernized and less trouble adopting in your Country . By that I mean , inside still Traditional but used to the Western ways better . One just have to find the " Right " one .
-
David E. I have the ability to say no and do quite often. At first it was not received real well but Peggy has gotten the message. I was more poking fun at Arnold and the concept. I am sure it is true because Peggy still comes up with things that I should do and a simple no works.
Most recently her younger brother's wife had a baby boy. Peggy's mother went to Shenzhen to help several weeks ago. She has been cooking and cleaning the house. Just a couple of days ago Peggy went there and she is taking care of the baby. In about a week Peggy will return home and her mother will stay and help for about 10 more months.
Just before Peggy left for Shenzhen she told me that I needed to give a monetary gift to the baby's parents. I asked how much and she said, "It is up to you." Well I have been down that road before. After asking a few times she tells me that her sister is pushing to give and her husband gave $400.00US. My response was no, I will not give anything right now. I may later. First is getting her here to the US. The only one complaining is her sister and I could care less about her complaints.
-
To clarify........
The issue here from my point of view is not the giving and recieving of red envelopes at the wedding. Quite the contrary, I was married in June and at our wedding dinner the whole bunch of family and friends gave us red envelopes that just about paid for the whole wedding dinner. I also, with great pleasure was able to give Ming's parents a very generous red envelope, because they dont have much money and I know they would be delighted with both the money and the gesture.
What I wont do, which was why I responded to Arnold's post is to continue the red envelope business every time we go back to China (with the exception maybe of birthdays of family and friends).
I have no problem whatsoever with the tradition of giving red envelopes, it is a charming and relevant Chinese Custom....but once is enough, and Ming supported me in my views on it.
But as I said....we all must make our own decisions in this matter, based on what advice we get form our partner and the prevailing customs within her family.
David
-
Oooo..... Let me go back and readdress what I said above. That was my last comment before going to sleep lasting night. Arnold, sorry. What I should have said was that I was poking fun at the concept. I know what Arnold was serious about what he said. I also know that things differ from family to family, region to region. I think what Arnold and Qing have worked out between them is excellent and a great example of how a couple should work together.
I also know as in my case that if you open the wallet every time they ask that they will continue to dig deeper into it. Then guys have got on this forum and complained about the women wanting to take all of your money and go further to say that it is all a scam. Many times I imagine that the supposed scam stems from the man flashing cash on his trip to impress the woman and her family. That only feeds fuel to the idea that Western men who come to China are rich.
When I first joined this forum many of the more experienced guys you say to us newbies at that time that we needed to count the cost before going to China. That is a comment that should be made all of the time.
As time goes on I am sure there will be many things that we did not anticipate and will bring to this forum. I've heard an old saying that applies here. Chew the meat and spit out the bones.
-
David and Shaun , you made good point's .. as to tell other's too .. that it's NOT necessary " ALL＂the time . But do make a point of asking your Lady and do talk it over well , before you decide to answer with a loud NO . Remember to show Face and not let them see your backside .. which has no Face .
-
I agree with David and thanks for the clarification. I too received red envelopes at my wedding. I do give red envelopes during birthdays and baby parties, but not everytime I go to China and visit the family. As an American, I definitely make much more money and am more well off than my wife's family. However, they do not expect any money from me, just take care of their daughter and niece. I really respect them for it. As with many other people here, my wife tells me who to give red envelopes to and how much. The amount usually are 400 to 800 rmb.