I need your honest opinions and thoughts, please...

[Scottish_Rob]

Keep your spirits up Andy...

I know it was hard for you to do what you think is for the best..

But, as the rest say, use this forum, we are not just for Chnlove, we are for Chinese relationships, and take it from me, a better bunch of guys you will never meet.

Take Care my friend, and I hope to hear from you again...

Rob

[David E]

Andy

I am sorry to hear about your decision, but certainly respect your right to do what you think is best for yourself and your future.

I think I might claim some experience of failing to find the "right" woman...I went to China 5 times before I found this Forum and all the incredible and wise advice that the Bros have posted.

Since I found this Forum, I have been very precise in my correspondence with maybe 8 Women in all...I have said (politely), early on in the correspondence that I would only consider a longer term correspondence with a woman who was prepared to send original photos and who would be prepared to speak person-to-person on QQ or telephone.....I got this advice from somewhere on this Forum, but I cant remember exactly who said it, but it is right !!!

As you would expect, several women tried to sneak around this rule of mine....and I suspect it was the translators at work here !!

But several women responded without any problems about what I had asked and they sent the photos and we arranged QQ sessions ...no problem.

It is said, that of all the eligible women on CHNLove, perhaps 10% meet your criteria in some way. ....and, of all the Men on CHNLove, you maybe meet the criteria of 10% of the women. So far it looks like the potential for a good match is running at 1% !!!!!!

So my point is...its probably a numbers "game" and the trap we fall into is to extend the time of correspondence in hope that things will get better....but we keep throwing money at it when we should move on !!!

The sound advice I got here was to give it a good, honest try, but understand and accept when it is time to move on and look for another woman.

Maybe you have come to far with understanding to give it all up ??...becvause there ARE some GREAT Ladies out there in CHNLove...we just gotta dig harder to find them . There are many wonderful stories here of those Bros who have made it.

You have discovered all the traps and red flags already.......you have done the hard yards...time to have a win

Good luck, whatever you decide

DavidE

[Danny]

I'll still be around here, but just might give the international dating sites a break for a while.

Andy

I don't think it hurts to try something different.

You could even try to do a few things all at once.

When I was looking around, I found match.com a pretty good service. It permits you to find people in your own city/state/country, and at the same time you can write directly to people in other countries (eg China). So, to use an Australian expression, on Melbourne Cup Day, have a bet both ways!

You have to keep remembering that things work themselves out and time is on your side.

Best of luck. Don't be a stranger. Stay in touch!

Danny

[Arnold]

Thanks David , As alway's good Advice .

You know for us Married ones here , that seem to have had it sooo easy ... to the point that at least I feel somewhat guilty , for having had little or no problem with Chnlove at all . It is easy for me to say , looking out my Window on all of this . But then again , I wouldn't say ... I had it that easy . Andy , you might not know , I myself had to go through three other Ladies before I found Qing . I owe it al to the first one I've met through Chnlove ( MIN ) , as I myself was to quit this search after her having a Boyfriend already . But she did not let me do this . So , I promised her I'll keep looking and after two more Ladies ... there she was , my beautiful Wife . So , you having had two failure's .. might be just what you need to find the really True Love that you came to look for .
Don't blame it on Chnlove or the Girl's , it was just not meant to be . So move on and try again ... isn't this what we all do in our Life's anyway , pretty much for everything we want ?

Give it some time and start fresh and alway's with a positive attitute . Give the new Lady a clean chance to be the " ONE "

[shaun]

Very good David E,

With your permission I would like to use one of your lines in my profile update.

Shaun

[wilsbrough]

Cheers for the responses and pm's guys.

I had already had decided as this was my third attempt with Chinlove that if things did not work out with this lady i was going to walk away from the Chinlove site. I feel like it is a bit like a game of poker, i feel that it is like when you play a hand and become chip committed into the pot, you know in you head you should fold, but you keep on putting more and more chips in and when the river comes your busted by another hand. I see the emf's as the chips you put in, and if you leave it too long, you keep buying the emf's to put into your hand because you feel that you are now too committed to walk away, by the time you realise it is too late, you see how much money you have spent on a relationship that has gone nowhere. In my heart i wanted to carry on, but my gut feeling was that this would not work out. I could not really entertain the idea of going all the way to China again to meet a lady who i have not had any direct contact with. I thought it way too much of a bad gamble, so i folded my hand.... I am not saying everyone should do this as i know for many of you this has worked out, we all need to follow our own path right? And this was the one i chose, for someone else it maybe different, so good luck to you all.... I got a reply from her today and it looks like she agreed with me and wished me all the best. I'm happy i have not upset her.

I have looked at a few other sites, Asianeuro and Chineselove links, they appear to have quite a few Asian ladies already in the UK looking for long term relationships/marriage, so i may sign up for a couple of months and see if anything develops there. Both are run differently where you pay for a 3 month membership (or more) but you can send as many messages as you like as there is no emf's and translators to pay. I think for me, at the moment this is a better idea. I will let my brothers know how things go....

[Voiceroveip]

Maybe give cherryblossoms.com a shot. I made some good contacts there!

[heckerd]

I meet my wife on Chineselovelinks or CLL for short. I never sent an emf with chnlove since i was being cheap and was not sure how honest the service was since most photos were studiost. In the general chat room on CLL there are ladies chatting with their webcam up for people to see. I find CLL is great for communicating with the girls directly but you have to be careful as some are just playing games. CLL did purged alot of their members since they were posting studio pictures but it was men on the otherside. Remember to ask for non studio photos. If your relationship is going smoothly set up a room in the chat room area to meet and see each other by cam.

[Johnboy]

Very good David E,

With your permission I would like to use one of your lines in my profile update.

Shaun

Which one Shaun? I might like to use it too!  Hopefully DavidE does not have copyright.....

[shaun]

John,

It is, "I have said (politely), early on in the correspondence that I would only consider a longer term correspondence with a woman who was prepared to send original photos and who would be prepared to speak person-to-person on QQ or telephone....."

I would like to see how it is phrased in his EMF's or profile.  But I am over at www.blossoms.com and having a fairly good time right now.  These ladies must talk to more than one man because it takes a while to respond. But I'll check it out for a month or so.

Shaun

[Johnboy]

Cheers for the responses and pm's guys.

I had already had decided as this was my third attempt with Chinlove that if things did not work out with this lady i was going to walk away from the Chinlove site. I feel like it is a bit like a game of poker, i feel that it is like when you play a hand and become chip committed into the pot, you know in you head you should fold, but you keep on putting more and more chips in and when the river comes your busted by another hand. I see the emf's as the chips you put in, and if you leave it too long, you keep buying the emf's to put into your hand because you feel that you are now too committed to walk away, by the time you realise it is too late, you see how much money you have spent on a relationship that has gone nowhere. In my heart i wanted to carry on, but my gut feeling was that this would not work out. I could not really entertain the idea of going all the way to China again to meet a lady who i have not had any direct contact with. I thought it way too much of a bad gamble, so i folded my hand.... I am not saying everyone should do this as i know for many of you this has worked out, we all need to follow our own path right? And this was the one i chose, for someone else it maybe different, so good luck to you all.... I got a reply from her today and it looks like she agreed with me and wished me all the best. I'm happy i have not upset her.

I have looked at a few other sites, Asianeuro and Chineselove links, they appear to have quite a few Asian ladies already in the UK looking for long term relationships/marriage, so i may sign up for a couple of months and see if anything develops there. Both are run differently where you pay for a 3 month membership (or more) but you can send as many messages as you like as there is no emf's and translators to pay. I think for me, at the moment this is a better idea. I will let my brothers know how things go....

Hey Wilsbrough,

You come across as a thoroughly good and decent man who has nothing to reproach himself for and who has every right to consider himself to be aggrieved and misled.  Without any self-aggrandizement I like to consider myself in the same manner, as I believe that decency and goodness are important qualities in this fractured life.  I only wish that Chnlove and its agencies and (some) of its ladies who cross our horizons shared those same values. Unfortunately, we are of those who are the easy prey to the machinations of those who do not share those values and seek only the instant profit of the innocent EMF victims.  However, that will not always be the case and I believe that in time there will be retribution and a price to be paid.  Most importantly, I sincerely hope you do not depart from this Brotherhood Forum as I have found your decency and humour to be most endearing.  In this respect I am reminded of your 'translation post':  "who are you?  Where is the girl in the photo?"  I was feeling rather down and depressed at the time but having read that I went to bed laughing and woke up still laughing.  Absolutely priceless!!!  I hope therefore that you will stay with us Wilsbrough; your decency, goodness and sense of humour are a valued and much-needed part of the fabric of this Forum.

[Johnboy]

John,

It is, "I have said (politely), early on in the correspondence that I would only consider a longer term correspondence with a woman who was prepared to send original photos and who would be prepared to speak person-to-person on QQ or telephone....."

I would like to see how it is phrased in his EMF's or profile.  But I am over at www.blossoms.com and having a fairly good time right now.  These ladies must talk to more than one man because it takes a while to respond. But I'll check it out for a month or so.

Shaun

Thanks Shaun,

I was, in part, only joking for camaraderies sake, but I'm pleased to hear you are having a fairly good time at blossoms.com.  May try it myself soon as I am becoming increasingly convinced that I, like many others before and indeed currently, am being 'translator scammed' by one of chnlove's agencies.  In fact I have just been reading the Davidaquincy thread (don't know if you are familiar with it?) and there are some distinct familiaralties with it and my suspicions.  I am not completely convinced yet, but if my suspicions are confirmed I will cause havoc for Chnlove and the agency concerned.

Enjoy at Cherry Blossoms!

John

[Johnboy]

Thanks Shaun,

I was, in part, only joking for camaraderies sake, but I'm pleased to hear you are having a fairly good time at blossoms.com.  May try it myself soon as I am becoming increasingly convinced that I, like many others before and indeed currently, am being 'translator scammed' by one of chnlove's agencies.  In fact I have just been reading the Davidaquincy thread (don't know if you are familiar with it?) and there are some distinct familiaralties with it and my suspicions.  I am not completely convinced yet, but if my suspicions are confirmed I will cause havoc for Chnlove and the agency concerned.

Enjoy at Cherry Blossoms!

John

John,

All of you bro's are good people, looking for the same! It's unfortunate, that many of us get played...by the women, translators, and agency's. Chnlove, should clean this mess up! I found Davidaquincy's thread today, in the back, with my old thread...of my first visit to China. I read through it and had complete empathy, for this man! These women shouldn't join a marriage site, if they aren't truly looking for a long-term partner! These women, that lead men on, are very pathetic! We all have enough of these women, in our own countries! Just keep your heads up and keep looking! You will find that special lady and have your dreams come true!

Jim

Jim,

I totally agree with what you have written - and that's what makes me so angry!  These scammers, translators, agencies, Chnlove et al are playing with, and trampling on, the feelings and hopes of decent, good  and  well-intentioned people.  Like you, I emphasised with Davidaquincy's situation and the sheer hopelessness of it all and retched at Chnlove's callous indifference to his plight.  There are far too many similar stories posted on this Forum and I believe it's time to confront Chnlove aggressively in it's own 'back-yard'.  Legal action and redress is extremely difficult, as DavidE has already rightly pointed out (although not impossible), and I am currently researching this avenue under Commercial Law.  Chnlove knows that, because of the differences and contradictions in International Law, the legal route is fraught with problems and is content to hide behind that.  Personally, I believe the thing Chnlove fears most is bad publicity - aggressively sustained and revealing bad publicity - the type of bad publicity that exposes its, and its agencies', corrupt practices.  In this last respect, online petitions and press releases are powerful tools for focusing Chnloves attention on putting its house in order.  Chinese University student newspapers(students of all nationalities are well-known for their sense of moral outrage); foreign embassies (this Forum is after all an international one) etc, etc.  I do not think Chnlove would act so flippantly and arrogantly if its name was being bandied and muddied internationally - to say nothing of the delight that would give to its competitors.   It would also not be over-keen on having its treatment and manipulation of its 'lady clients' exposed (complicit scammers excluded), to say nothing of the exhorbitant fees it charges them! I also do not accept the premise that Chnlove is not resposible for the agencies wrongdoing, or that the agencies are a separate entity to Chnlove.  Chnlove is the parent body without which the agencies would not exist in the form that they do.  Moreover, as I understand it, the contract for delivery of services, and the regulation of that contract, resides with Chnlove.  

I will stop for now.  But you may be assured that I will return to this subject at a later date.

John

[David E]

John,

It is, "I have said (politely), early on in the correspondence that I would only consider a longer term correspondence with a woman who was prepared to send original photos and who would be prepared to speak person-to-person on QQ or telephone....."

I would like to see how it is phrased in his EMF's or profile.  But I am over at www.blossoms.com and having a fairly good time right now.  These ladies must talk to more than one man because it takes a while to respond. But I'll check it out for a month or so.

Shaun

Shaun

My modus operandus is to allow maximum of 5 EMF's and in my 6th I say....

"I hope you can see that I have shown my willingness to correspond with you openly and honestly and to share with you my hopes and dreams for the future. I have demonstrated that I am sincere and do not play games with emotions.

I hope you feel the same and I think from here it would be proper for you to send me some daily photos, so that I can imagine you in your normal life....and also that we arrange to meet each other on QQ or some similar method.

This will confirm to me that you are also genuine in your search for a Western husband and it is an important "next step" in our relationship.

I should tell you with honesty that if you are not willing to do these things then I must question how sincere you really are.

etc etc etc !!!

The above is copyrighted...but this can be overcome by payment of a large fee....:icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin:

DavidE

[shaun]

John,

It is, "I have said (politely), early on in the correspondence that I would only consider a longer term correspondence with a woman who was prepared to send original photos and who would be prepared to speak person-to-person on QQ or telephone....."

I would like to see how it is phrased in his EMF's or profile.  But I am over at www.blossoms.com and having a fairly good time right now.  These ladies must talk to more than one man because it takes a while to respond. But I'll check it out for a month or so.

Shaun

Shaun

My modus operandus is to allow maximum of 5 EMF's and in my 6th I say....

"I hope you can see that I have shown my willingness to correspond with you openly and honestly and to share with you my hopes and dreams for the future. I have demonstrated that I am sincere and do not play games with emotions.

I hope you feel the same and I think from here it would be proper for you to send me some daily photos, so that I can imagine you in your normal life....and also that we arrange to meet each other on QQ or some similar method.

This will confirm to me that you are also genuine in your search for a Western husband and it is an important "next step" in our relationship.

I should tell you with honesty that if you are not willing to do these things then I must question how sincere you really are.

etc etc etc !!!

The above is copyrighted...but this can be overcome by payment of a large fee....:icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin:

DavidE

David,

You smooth talker you. Of course I'll send you a natural photo and my QQ  number...  wait... :blush:

Ah hem...  Excellent words.  Would a couple of Fosters do?

Shaun