Author Topic: Fathers and daughters  (Read 1657 times)

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Offline chen yan

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Fathers and daughters
« on: January 27, 2011, 07:22:28 am »
As I observed and talked with some of my female friends about their facthers.
I find there are some different interaction modes between father and daugter. But one rule I concludes is “As long as a father love her daughter, then he can be a good husband ”. Am I right? ;)
And I am curious what’s the influence of the interaction mode between father and daughter? Will it influence their daughters’ future life ? I think most of the brothers have more wisdom and can give some real life experience.

Here are some stories .

1.   Some of my girl friends like to act like a spoilt child in front of her dad, They like to call “dad” a lot , and their dad response. So they receive a lot of hugs and kisses from their dad since childhood. Even they grow up, They still sit on their father’s leg and kiss each other (It’s not usual in China that you still can be so close with you dad when you grow up) . Their fathers are the sweetest father I have ever know. But they are not close to their mother and her mother play a more strict role than her dad . This is a typical interaction modes.  I admire them can be so close to their facther , but I am just not the same .

2.   Some fathers play “mother” role, my friend’s dad is kinda “feminize” as she describe. Her father help her to wash clothes, shoes, and he cann’t sleep if she is out and not at home on time . Even she have grown up, her father still always worry about her. She is the one who dare to only wear “underwear” and walk pass by her father.  He put a lot of time on her, that makes her feel her father is very bored. But her father is the cutest father I ever know and He is very humous. So my friend always like to talk some stupid things her dad did and some funning words her dad speak with her. I think it is atually a express of how she love and proud of her father, That makes me admire also.

3. I am not that close to my father as my above friends , We donn’t talk and call each other often, we never have body contact like hug and kiss which DOSN'T mean we donn’t love each other.
And I find out not every daughter is close to their father also . That makes me feel better.
Some friends like me, They also have an “invisible” distance between their father. So I find there is a common, Some of our fathers are a little “masculist” character and donn’t know how to be express their feeling.

I find I never ask my dad for anything (Toy, cloth, present etc) forwardly. So I do admire of my friend which can act like a spoiled girl, but that’s what I never can learn. When there is something sad or bad happen to me , I always choose to told and share with my mom, Because I can get comfort from her.  I wonn’ told any bad or sad news to my father and he is the same. My mother ever told me my father complain about why I donn’t call him often, why I like to call and talk with my mother, So my mother request me to call him sometimes. But I just donn’t know what can I say with my father, so normally the call only can last for 10 mintues(Actually this is longer than before. The farther I am away, the longer the call can be).  And my friend also have the same situation, They cann’t make a call last for more than 10 mintues when talked with their fathers, Even at home they seldom talked with eath other about their life and feel.

 But now I find if we take the initiative to talk and care with each other, the situation changes better. when I ask him for some help and buy a little present to him and even a greeting message in some special festival, He is very happy.  And when he talked with me more about his life and feeling, I find the call can last longer.   
My friend told me when his father send a happy birthday message to her, She is very happy to told me about this, She thought he is too busy to remember her birthday. And I teach her to communicate and care more about her father, like her half blood brother did, Situation will change also.

My friend met and have dinner with my father one day, And she told me one thing that I never know that my father told with her “I am lucky to have two clever kids” ,My friend told me my father sounds very satisfied.

4.     Until one day I was drink with my another friend in a bar, She cann’t help to cry when talked about her father and mother, She is the saddest one that she have a mom and dad who donn’t love her and her sisters. They only like boys. So they leave home and get married very early. Unit she met her husband, and her husband said to her then ” it is ok, I will be your mom and dad to love you ” . That sentence touched me also. She said she admire us having loving parents.  Having “loving parents” that’s a big fortune which you cann’t buy no matter how wealth you are, And it is always a regret you cann’t make complete.
Fortunately, She has a loving husband which we admire. Life is fair.

What do you think these four different kinds interaction mode between father and daughter ? And how life will treat these different girls in the future ? For example which kind of man they will prefer to be together in the future or which kind of man is good for them? I think if you miss one thing in your life, you will hope to find it back from some person.

Eg, My friend find a perfect match husband who can show loving care for her like parents did.  And I think I prefer a more close relationship which we can communicate mentally and more body contact like hugs and kisses which can make me feel I was being loved and which I miss those from my parents, So it is hard to find among Chinese men that most of them donn’t show too much love sign and body contact with their lover.  What is brothers opinion about which kind of men suit for other two kinds of girls ? What is other interaction modes do you know between fathers and daughters?
« Last Edit: January 27, 2011, 07:28:24 am by chen yan »
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Offline Philip

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Re: Fathers and daughters
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2011, 08:13:54 am »
Yan, fascinating stuff. Your first description sounds like what we in the west call, 'Daddy's girl'. These are women who are their father's favourite and want to stay in a kind of extended childhood for as long as possible. By the same token, the father wants to see his daughter as still being a little girl. Maybe he is afraid of facing the fact that she is an adult. Maybe she is afraid of becoming an adult. Psychologists have a lot to say about this kind of relationship. The closeness may look desirable from the outside, but maybe it is a case of arrested development, two people who are afraid to move on in their life and, rather than embracing the changes in their lives, stick to the familiar and comfortable, refusing to recognize that their relationship has changed.
Sometimes all of us have difficulty being an adult, and being in relationships as adults. As sons, as daughters, as husbands and  wives. Sometimes with my wife, I feel quite paternal, sometimes she tries to mother me, sometimes I let her. At other times, we have a mature adult relationship. Some men look for a wife like their mother. Some women look for a husband like their father.

I have five sisters. They all have different relationships with our father. Maybe they are like you in the sense that they would like a closer relationship with him. They are not Daddy's girls and don't want to be either. He is very affectionate, but very private. He doesn't open up about his life, some things are too difficult for him to talk about, but he does show his feelings in a non-verbal way.

I think it is good that you take the initiative and talk to your father. He finds it difficult to tell you how much he cares for you, but feels more comfortable telling others. You can be the adult and take the initiative, as he may find it difficult to know how to approach his adult daughter. I find it hard to talk to my father about feelings, but sometimes, when we are chatting about computers, walking in a forest, or talking about books, a closeness will emerge, which is very precious. There's no way that could happen over the phone.

Offline shaun

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Re: Fathers and daughters
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2011, 10:12:41 am »
Yan this is an interesting subject.  I have 2 daughters.  One is 25 and the other is 23.

My oldest daughter is most like her mother.  The relationship between my oldest daughter and me is difficult.  She is independent and wants to be on her own.  She contacts me when she needs something.  For example something is wrong with her car so she will call me and I go to her house to look at her car.  Then either I fix it or I tell her what needs to be done and who to take it to.  We are not affectionate even though we may hug every once in a while but it is a very awkward hug.   I treat her in a way she feels the most comfortable.

My younger daughter is very different.  We talk on the cell phone almost every day.  We hug often.  She will tell me things that she would never tell anyone else.  A few months ago she had accident.  She called the police and then she called me and asked me if I could come to the accident to be with her.  She cried because the accident was her fault.  I put my arms around her, held her for what seemed like hours and assured her everything would be alright.  Even at 23 years old she needs her father sometimes when she feels she needs protection.  I tell her that I love her all of the time.

I think a good father looks beyond his own personal needs and inadequacies and tries to meet their children at their own need.  Sometimes I do very well at this and sometimes I do not.  But if there is something you want or need from your father in the relationship I think it is good to talk with him about it.  I also think it would be a good for you to look for the qualities you are seeking in a husband.

Let me give you an example.  After my divorce I knew I would want to marry again.  I do not like being alone with a woman to love, and I am not talking about sex.  I spent a lot of time thinking about what I wanted my next wife to be.  There were a few qualities that I insisted on.  1. She must not smoke.   2. She must not drink alcohol.  3. She must consider the marriage as a partnership and willing to work together with me for the need of our family.  4. She must be feminine.  There are other qualities but 4 will do for now.  As I began to look at the single women where I live I could not find women that possessed the qualities I was looking for. (Before someone says something I do believe they exist, I simply never found them. There was one but she smokes so she was out.)  So my search went international.  I have always considered Chinese women to be the most beautiful in all of the world.

I hope I was able to answer your questions somewhat.  I know I said more than I attended to say.

Offline David E

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Re: Fathers and daughters
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2011, 05:10:36 pm »
As I observed and talked with some of my female friends about their facthers.
I find there are some different interaction modes between father and daugter. But one rule I concludes is “As long as a father love her daughter, then he can be a good husband ”. Am I right? ;)
And I am curious what’s the influence of the interaction mode between father and daughter? Will it influence their daughters’ future life ? I think most of the brothers have more wisdom and can give some real life experience.


Yan

You have asked one of the most important, yet difficult questions of all time !! "What do we need from our "perfect" Partner"

There have been a zillion books published about this question...and you will find a zillion different answers.

One thing is very clear.......being a good father does not guarantee being a good husband. There are many good Fathers out there, so why is the divorce rate so high...something obviously is going wrong.

Way back, there was a simple saying...."Men tend to marry their Mothers and Women tend to marry their Fathers", ie, we sought in our Partner, those qualities that we were familiar with from our most "significant" others, our Parents.

There was some truth in this when life was simpler, when nuclear families were closer and opportunity to marry outside of our limited social circle was difficult.
With the World changing so much, these traditional "Partner signals" become more vague and we have the ability to even find a Partner from any Country in the World. With such a International relationship, there are many, many differences...emotional, cultural etc and many of the life experiences in an International relationship are so different. The "connect" we have with such a person is tenuous and very, very different. So many of the conventional measures we use from our experience to help us make decisions of choice (emotionally) about this person are not present or seriously discrepant....yet many of us on this Site KNOW we have found our perfect Partner here...most strange (but most lovely  ;D ;D)

Basically, Psychologists believe that the "Imago" theory still holds good. This theory says that we all are seeking a Partner to complete our "lost" self. A Partner to first complement the positives we inherited from our relationship with our parents and second to provide all of those things (emotionally) that we believe we "lost" through our relationships with our Parents.
If you want to read more, look at Hendrix and Berne writings on this subject.

So the short answer to your question is that it matters little what we think of our relationship with Father or Mother when we look for a Partner, what matters most is what WE perceive as the "lost" part of our own emotional needs. Maybe we could say that we seek in a Partner, those things that we did not get from our Parents, but we also must find in our partner those things we DID receive from our Parents.

The relationships I have with my 2 daughters tend to agree with this scenario. They are 2 completely different girls (same as Shauns daughters) so they both have different psychological views of what they "found" and what they "lost" in their own relationships with their Parents. Thus they will both have different views on what they need from a Partner to "complete" themselves. This is very visible when I compare the Men they married...both Men are very different.!!! So obviously both my Daughters felt that they "needed" different things from their Partners.

As usual, with psychology, nothing is certain, all is theory....but there is usually some underlying truth in it all.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2011, 05:20:00 pm by David E »

Offline chen yan

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Re: Fathers and daughters
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2011, 12:00:37 am »
Philip,Shaun,David E, Thank you for sharing your own opinions and It's pleased to read your stories. I think it's a good quality that you can let your wife "mother" you sometimes to meet her need.  It is intersting to know when you have more than one daughter, Fathers have to meet their different needs. Shaun ,do you know what kinds of men your two daughters are looking for ? And David E, Can you share more about your comparasion of difference "needed" that different  daughters are seeking for their husband?   
I think if you can try to find what your daughters need and try to fulfil their needs. Then it is the same way you are willing to observe and find what's your wife need and try to fulfill her needs also.  That's what I mean about “As long as a father love her daughter, then he can be a good husband ”
« Last Edit: January 28, 2011, 12:23:58 am by chen yan »
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Offline David E

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Re: Fathers and daughters
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2011, 02:31:05 am »
Yan

I am not sure that I can fully explain how we store up Psychological needs" I think it will require many pages !!!

Maybe I can summarise:

Parents take care of our physical needs as best they can...food, clothing and shelter. We absorb our emotional and psychological needs from our Parents, our friends and the people around us. This process begins from Birth and is basically fixed by the age of 7 years. It is called "scripting". We get our own personal scripts from all the "significant others" around us.

Very few of the significant others have any real idea what type of script they are giving us, it is usually an accident of living !!! A "bad " script can live with us all our lives, so can a good one. It is VERY difficult to change our script later in life.

For instance, if we learned from our Parents that showing emotion was not appropriate, then we become scripted with the need to find someone who will fix this "Lost self"...the emotional self.

So many Men from my generation were taught NOT to show emotions (British stiff upper lip !!!) and this script lives with us always, we therefore look for a Partner who is emotionally free to demonstrate affection to "complete" us.

Another "for instance"...I clearly remember my Mother saying she was proud of me and I "would go far in life"...so I did...I went to Australia !!!!.....to fulfill my script...but I am sure this is not what my Mother meant !!! but likely at such a young age, that was my interpretation of her words !!!..so I was given this flawed script (in this one instance)

The "lost" part of our emotional/psychological self is that part we have poor scripts and we seek a Partner to fix it for us. Yet at the same time, the positive scripts we were handed make us look for a Partner who has these qualities.......maybe honesty, integrity, ambition and many such.  That is the "Imago" theory...comes from the Latin word for Image...ie we are seeking to complete our image of ourselves by reinforcing the positives in our scripts and finding someone to help us heal the negative scripts.

So, Yan, if you want to know what is needed from a future Partner, you must analyse the scripts that each person has been given so you can understand what positive and negative emotions will be important for future relationships.

This process is known as Transactional Analysis...which is a whole new field of discussion !!!!!
« Last Edit: January 28, 2011, 02:34:15 am by David E »

Offline Neil

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Re: Fathers and daughters
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2011, 04:13:30 am »
A father's love of a daughter is the most special kind of love there is.  When my first daughter was born, I clearly remember when the doctor placed her in my arms.  I will cherish that moment forever.  When they were young, I would read them stories every night.  Before they went to sleep, I would "hug the love out of them".  Now they are 17 and 18, and they live very far away.  I miss them terribly. 

I worry about what kind of man my daughters will eventually meet.   I hope he is a good man.  If he hurts them, he will regret it.  But they are strong girls.  They will not allow a man to mistreat them. 

I do not understand the reasoning behind a Chinese man not wanting to be too intimate with his girlfriend or wife.  To me, there is nothing better than hugs and kisses to reinforce a strong relationship.  My girlfriend and I discussed this just last night.  She said that a wife's responsibility is to meet the needs of her husband, and I said that a man's duty is to make sure his wife is happy.  I think we'd all agree that there's nothing worse than an unhappy wife, except maybe an unhappy daughter. 
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Offline shaun

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Re: Fathers and daughters
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2011, 05:04:40 am »
I have discussed many times with my daughters the kind of men they want to marry.  From time to time that image will change so I don't worry too much about it but I will talk with them about basic qualities.  For example I do not think it is good for two people who do not share the same spiritual principals.  Since both of my daughters are Christians it would be wise for them to marry Christians.  Both girls are hard working and they should marry hard working men.  Being like minded is important.  There can be differences but they should complement each other.

I did have to tell one of my girls recently that I thought that the young man she was seeing was all wrong for her.  She got angry with me.  I then told her that I needed to tell her but that I would not say it to her again.  Sure enough after about 3 months they decided to not see each other anymore.  She thanked me for opening her eyes a little and she is doing all of the things she did before.

Offline chen yan

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Re: Fathers and daughters
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2011, 10:12:28 pm »
So many Men from my generation were taught NOT to show emotions (British stiff upper lip !!!) and this script lives with us always, we therefore look for a Partner who is emotionally free to demonstrate affection to "complete" us.

David E, Thank you for your explaination. And let me know your generation Biritish's emotion express way.

Neil ,I agree what you and your friend's conclusion. I find if couple didn't realize their responsibility and duty,so they cann't meet each other's need.Then they wonn't be happy,and they will look for from somewhere else.


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