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Offline seagull

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My Trip to Chengdu
« on: April 27, 2011, 05:11:31 am »
Hello everyone,

For those who read my thread earlier in this forum, I now have been to Chengdu and back. It was my first time visiting any part of Mainland China and what an interesting (and very different) place it was to visit this city in the heart of China and centre of Sichuan culture.

I was not as nervous as I thought I would be when on the way to Chengdu. Being on a redeye flight and never being able to sleep well on a plane, the only thing I could think of at the time was getting a good night's rest and wishing I was in a comfortable bed. It was only when I arrived at Chengdu airport after 12 hours of commuting, waiting for what felt like an eternity going through Chinese Immigration and then baggage collection and knowing that Cherry (I'll use her English name rather than Chinese name for privacy reasons) was on the other side waiting for me, my heart started to race. The nervousness started to hit,  thinking what would happen next, if she didn't like me, or vice-versa or if there was something else that could go wrong.

After collecting my baggage, I walked into airport arrivals and we recognised each other straight away. There she was waving happily and greeted me with a bunch of flowers. We walked to her car and seemed to hit it off straight away as if we had known each other for years. Her normal job is a tour group leader, so she is very confident and outgoing and speaks excellent English, which made getting to know each other a lot easier.

My first impression of Chengdu was how big this place is. The city is a colossus and makes cities like Sydney and Kuala Lumpur seem miniscule in comparision. The roads and pavements are wide and there are high rise apartments everywhere. I was amazed by the scale of development in Chengdu. I could see new high rise apartments under construction for as far as the eye can see, 40 apartment blocks under construction at the same time in one area. This is a boom town on steroids and I have never seen so much construction in one place at the same time before anywhere in the world.

I won't go into too much detail about what I did on my trip. Cherry really looked after me and took me to many of the main tourist sites. She went out of my way to ensure I had a good time in Chengdu and I really appreciate everything she did for me. I met all of her family and friends. It was also my birthday when I was there and she arranged a surprise party for me at a KTV joint. I tried all the local Sichuan cuisine. It seemed she was the only person in the whole of Chengdu who could speak any English but I got on well with all of her family and friends. I know a little bit of Mandarin Chinese, not enough to have a conversation, but enough to make some jokes and observations. Cherry also taught me a few words of Sichuan Mandarin which helped endear me with her family/friends.

If any of you read my previous thread, I mentioned that I was not exactly sure of what I was going to see Cherry for, whether friendship or a relationship. We never really discussed this before my trip. Unfortunately, by the end of this trip I am still none the wiser. I have been getting mixed signals and still do not know where I stand (we haven't done anything "physical" by the way). I tried to get her to verbalise what she was expecting from me, but her message was unclear. She said we should keep in contact and I can come back and see her again. And that I should also phone her parents on public holidays, etc. I jokingly said in Chinese to one of her aunties that I didn't want to go home, and she said I should move to Chengdu and be a "son in law". Another auntie said I was family. So maybe the family like me, but Cherry herself wants to take things slowly, or that was her way of letting me down gently.

Either way, I will keep in contact with Cherry and see where things lead. I still have doubts whether things would work in a long distance relationship, so do not mind too much which direction things go. I am happy because the friendship I have made is a priceless one, she is a lovely and kind person. I now know what others here have wrote about Mainland Chinese women is true and why so many members want to go through the pain of a long distance relationship because of the great reward at the end.

Overall, I had a good trip. I visited a city different from anywhere else I'd been to, had a local take me to places that a tourist would not see, met many lovely people and made new friends, and learned a lot about local Sichuan culture, and have no regrets about making this trip.

Offline seagull

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Re: My Trip to Chengdu
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2011, 05:36:16 am »
It seems most of the regular posters here have already been to China and are already at different stages of their relationships with women in China.

But I will offer some advice based on things I learned from my trip that may be of use to a newbie thinking of going:

  • If you are at the stage where you are searching for a woman, pick a lady who can speak English. Unless you can speak Mandarin Chinese or her local dialect, the language barrier will make things very difficult. I was lucky my lady could, which was all that mattered as no one else in Chengdu could speak any English. However, I could see how tough it would be if your lady does not speak English.
  • Make the effort to learn some Mandarin. More than just "ni hao" and "xie xie". It will really help the locals take a liking to you and you will be showing respect for their culture.
  • Don't be a fool who can't use chopsticks and be willing to try all the different types of food, however weird it may look/taste. Her family and friends will respect you for making the effort to take an interest in their culture.
  • I was quite lucky with the above three points. This was priceless in allowing me to develop a friendship with Cherry and be accepted by her family and friends. I thought I was quite lucky in this respect. However, this last point is where I fell over: If you know what you want from the lady (e.g. relationship, marriage, etc), clearly verbalise your intentions and get her to do the same thing to minimise the chance of misunderstanding. As daft as it sounds, I did not do this. Fortunately, it does not bother me too much, but if I was going to China with the intention of a relationship/marriage to see a lady who wasn't, and I hadn't communicated this properly, I'd be quite devasted.

Offline Hajo

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Re: My Trip to Chengdu
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2011, 11:43:53 am »
Seagull, your 3 advices sound good.

But I think you will looking for a long time, if you want a lady who speaks good English. Most of the ladies in my interest group 38 - 45 do not speak English or speak it very poor.  Luckily I do not have to search anymore. My wife did not speak English when we met. We did not have a translator with us either. My wife had a little handheld translator (pocket size). You are right, communication was difficult. But we worked it out. I think, that you were lucky to find a lady who speaks so good English.

For the learning mandarin part. You are right, speaking Mandarin helps. I consider myself having a talent concerning languages. I have learned quite a few words since my wife joined me. She and our son understand when I say things in Chinese, but her friends understands maybe 85% because I still have some difficulties to match the tones. I must also admit, that I have not done a huge effort to learn Chinese. My wife want to learn Danish first. I think it is difficult for foreigners to learn Chinese as many of the other members tell in their stories. It would be even more difficult to learn the local dialect, I think. But I do fully agree with you that the family and friends of the lady will highly appreciate the effort.

Your third point is not at discussion. I agree fully with your observations. Of course, you need to have tried chopsticks before you go to China. Trying the different foods is a must too. Some of the food might look suspicious, but it tastes delicious. I remember the first time I tried duck feet, they where good and I will surely eat them again. But chicken feet are not my kind food  8) As you were in Sichuan, you tried a lot of really spicy food, I suppose. I like this kind of food too. But many western people will have a hard time to eat it, I think. Again, you are right, it has to be tried. But then tall the lady it was to spicy and she will take care of it. Not trying, is as you say not a good option.

For your fourth point. Maybe she is not the ONE for you. Only you can decide that.

Besides your advices, there are some other things one should have in mind when going to China. Many things are different, because of the culture. Most of the people we meet when we go to China, want us well even so they do things we not always understand  ;D I was so lucky that my wife took care, that I did not do anything wrong  ;)

It is nice to see that you had a nice trip to China even though you did not meet your princess. I am sure she is waiting there somewhere. Thanks for your post and good luck!     
爱你的人如果没有按你所希望的方式来爱你,那并不代表他们没有全心全意地爱你。
Just because someone doesn't love you the way you want them to, doesn't mean they don't love you with all they have.

Offline maxx

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Re: My Trip to Chengdu
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2011, 09:24:56 pm »
Seagull you have some good suggestions.I would not limit myself to woman who speak English.When I arrived in China.I spoke one word of Chinese.My wife spoke a dozen words in English.If you only talk to the ladies who speak English.You are missing out on what could be a great relationship.Because you are putting limits on yourself and the woman.When me and my wife tried to talk to each other.It was slow and painfull.But it brought us that much closer allot quicker.Because we were both paying close attention to what.The other person was trying to say.And the hand held translators are a huge help.And they have improved by leaps and bounds in the last five years.And because both of you are in this together.You are working hard toward a goal to try to understand each other.

The secrete to this is when you and your better half have figured out how to talk to each other.And how to listen to each other.Is to never stop listening to each other.And never stop talking to each other.And remember 2 simple rules.

Different country different customs.Just because you have always done something a certain way in your country.Doesn't make it right.And it doesn't make it the way they do things in China.So work out a middle ground where both of you are happy.And if it isn't life threatening or the end of humanity.As we know it.Don't get wrapped up in the little things.Getting wrapped up in the little things and.Getting wrapped up in  the little things that bother you.Will end this little journey with that special lady quicker then anything.

24 hour rule live it love it learn it. No matter what crazy thing your lady says to you.Waite 24 hours before you reply.24 hours gives you a chance to post  your question here.and gives the members a chance to tell you what your lady was really trying to tell you.It also gives you a chance to slow down and think about what the lady was trying to say to you.It works if you use it.It also is a great way to prevent.You from Sticking your foot in your mouth.

And trust me when I tell you.That most of the members here.Are only at the beginning of there journey.The real journey starts when.You two start living together.That is the hardest part of the journey.And that is where most of theese relationships fail.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2011, 09:30:19 pm by maxx »

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Re: My Trip to Chengdu
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2011, 11:24:52 pm »
The real journey starts when.You two start living together.That is the hardest part of the journey.And that is where most of theese relationships fail.

Well yes Maxx , the Journey starts when living together under one Roof . Is it the hardest part ? I can honestly say .. it's easy for Qing and I and we both are ( yes still on our Honeymoon .. almost three years now ) in Heaven . That is as Seagull said , if you find someone with English ability .. it is a huge Help .
How to find this kind of Woman , that is more luck than anything else .. so I agree don't just narrow yourself down to these kind of Ladies or you be looking forever . Then , you might as well look in your own Country for a Chinese Woman .

Offline seagull

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Re: My Trip to Chengdu
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2011, 01:26:16 am »
Thanks everyone for commenting on my advice. Most people disagree about my point about finding someone who can speak English. I haven't found this too difficult to find people who meet this criteria, but maybe it is because of the age difference. I am 32 so look for ladies from their mid 20s to early 30s, so probably more who can speak English in this age bracket than some of the older age brackets.

Anyway, back to my situation. Today I received some angry text messages from Cherry and I couldn't understand why.

I phoned her to find out what was going on. She was upset and claims that I did not make any contact with her since coming home. I actually sent her a message after I arrived home saying I had got back safely to which she replied, and I pointed this out to her. But she said I should have phoned her. I told her it was very late and she might not have been awake. She still was upset and then said I should contact her every single day because it is "my job" and shows that I am thinking about her.

I then brought up that during my trip, I thought she said she only wanted to be friends. When I asked her whether she saw me as a friend or more, she never gave me a clear answer. She said she wants us to get to know each other better as friends but for me to show that I "want her" by contacting her on a daily basis.

I have dated Asian women before, but not using this Chinese style of dating. I explained this to her and that my intention was not to upset her and that we come from different backgrounds. I also said that I may not be able to contact her every single day because I work full time and attend class after work, so do not always have the free time. She still wants me to contact her every single day. I told her not to stress and worry so much.

I have only known Cherry for less than two weeks in person and we have already had our first argument. I remained calm and try to be rational, while she was quite emotional. She seems to be very demanding. I will endeavour to contact her when I can to keep her happy. I am now a bit concerned as I thought she wanted to take things slowly which I was happy to do, but now it seems I have gotten myself into a minefield. Anyway, I am not sure if anyone can offer advice here. I will continue what I have been doing, just take events as they come. This has been quite disturbing for me, she is an only child with a strong, dominant personality so I hope she will not become a difficult person to be with.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2011, 01:32:04 am by seagull »

Offline David E

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Re: My Trip to Chengdu
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2011, 04:33:52 am »
Oh dear, Seagull....you have to learn to understand "womanspeak" !!!

A rough translation of what Cherry is saying is as follows:

"I want to get to know you slowly and take our time"...translates as "I am interested, now persuade me that you are a strong, dynamic Man who will pursue me diligently"

"You should have phoned me"...translates as "You should have phoned me, if you phone late at night and wake me up, I will be pissed off at you, but nevertheless, it is your job, win , lose, or draw"

"You must contact me every day".....translates as "You must contact me every day....if you dont I will understand that you are a spineless no-hoper who cant be bothered to chase a gorgeous Woman like me"

Similarly, it is her priviledge to get sharp with you for any reason that comes into her head at the time, you of course must remain calm, supportive and loving...thats your job too !!"

There are many questions a SCF (Single Chinese Female) may or may not choose to answer...but ONE question will NEVER get a straight answer from any woman....and that is " Do you see me as a friend, or could there be more"...for a woman, this is like asking her for her bra size...a complete no-no...to answer honestly is beyond the mental capabilities of the female psyche....they never want you to know the truth about this tricky subject...you just gotta assume that she could answer yes, no, maybe, possibly, never...and mean every one. You have got a lot of work to do to get an answer to that question and you have not yet got up to the starting gate, never mind run the race.

If she is an only child, never married, with a strong and dominant personality..............be very scared........in fact probably Run Forest, run  ;D ;D

To be serious for a moment Seagull...have YOU decided what you want from a Chinese Woman, or are you just emotionally experimenting at this time. If you are, you will get burned !!

David
« Last Edit: April 29, 2011, 04:41:19 am by David E »

Offline seagull

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Re: My Trip to Chengdu
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2011, 05:06:26 am »
Oh dear, Seagull....you have to learn to understand "womanspeak" !!!

A rough translation of what Cherry is saying is as follows:

"I want to get to know you slowly and take our time"...translates as "I am interested, now persuade me that you are a strong, dynamic Man who will pursue me diligently"

"You should have phoned me"...translates as "You should have phoned me, if you phone late at night and wake me up, I will be pissed off at you, but nevertheless, it is your job, win , lose, or draw"

"You must contact me every day".....translates as "You must contact me every day....if you dont I will understand that you are a spineless no-hoper who cant be bothered to chase a gorgeous Woman like me"

Similarly, it is her priviledge to get sharp with you for any reason that comes into her head at the time, you of course must remain calm, supportive and loving...thats your job too !!"

There are many questions a SCF (Single Chinese Female) may or may not choose to answer...but ONE question will NEVER get a straight answer from any woman....and that is " Do you see me as a friend, or could there be more"...for a woman, this is like asking her for her bra size...a complete no-no...to answer honestly is beyond the mental capabilities of the female psyche....they never want you to know the truth about this tricky subject...you just gotta assume that she could answer yes, no, maybe, possibly, never...and mean every one. You have got a lot of work to do to get an answer to that question and you have not yet got up to the starting gate, never mind run the race.

If she is an only child, never married, with a strong and dominant personality..............be very scared........in fact probably Run Forest, run  ;D ;D

To be serious for a moment Seagull...have YOU decided what you want from a Chinese Woman, or are you just emotionally experimenting at this time. If you are, you will get burned !!

David

LOL, thanks David E. I may not need a Mandarin/English translator for Cherry but it looks like I definitely need a Womanspeak interpretator!

I was shocked when I received these angry messages today as we had got on well the whole time I was in Chengdu and I believed her she told me she wanted to take things slowly (and I respected that).

As we do not know each other that well, I thought we were both on the same page. Take things slowly and get to know each other better. Stay in regular contact and see what happens. Things could go either way, I'd make a second trip if things went well, if not, we'd just remain friends. But today she showed an ugly side of her personality that took me by surprise.

Ultimately, I do want a relationship. But whether or not she is the one, I do not know. I guess we may not have had that same spark that some others here who became success stories after their first trip had, who knows. But I would still like to give this a chance (although her demand of me contacting her every single day seems a bit excessive). Anyway, thanks David E for your comments.

Offline Jan

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Re: My Trip to Chengdu
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2011, 06:06:57 am »
I have only known Cherry for less than two weeks in person and we have already had our first argument. I remained calm and try to be rational, while she was quite emotional. She seems to be very demanding. I will endeavour to contact her when I can to keep her happy. I am now a bit concerned as I thought she wanted to take things slowly which I was happy to do, but now it seems I have gotten myself into a minefield. Anyway, I am not sure if anyone can offer advice here. I will continue what I have been doing, just take events as they come. This has been quite disturbing for me, she is an only child with a strong, dominant personality so I hope she will not become a difficult person to be with.

Haha I know this feeling. I had a similar thing but about different subject. It all worked out just fine. Because I have a long temper and I am very patient. Even if I am emotional, I don't speak nonsense. Often try to calm things down. Hear the other person out. And most of the times it is enough just to be there. To listen at the another person. To show that I do care about what she has to say.

But after that first quarrel we had... She was angry. And went to bed without wanting to finish our conversation . I wrote her a really long email. Trying to use google translate... Explaining what had happened. What I thought about the situation. Even though she understood maybe 50% of the email (haha). She realized that I do care. That I did listen. And that she did not listen to my point of view at all.

Since then we have had 2 more quarrels. And same approach works well. I stay calm, but express my feelings as well. Even if she gets even more angry than before. After a while of listening to her and commenting. She will slowly calm down. And be satisfied.

After our three quarrels. She told me, that she thinks. That she is uncosciously testing me and my patience. If I get angry at her, or say bad things, or do bad things. But of course I will not do that. And I think she believes that now. Ever since, we do quarrel but its not on the same magnitude. And those are much easier to resolve. Because both of us can speak freely. And say what is in our minds, without being afraid of the answer.
Of course, if you speak your minds freely, things become easier. Understanding the other person is easier. And meeting other persons expectations/wishes is easier.

This is a thing, which I feel blessed about. We can discuss everything without limits. So there is no room for guesses or uncertanity. She has told me what I am lacking, what I should do more. I did not even realize some things, until she told me.

The more we talk, the more secure and certain we feel about each others.

Offline maxx

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Re: My Trip to Chengdu
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2011, 09:23:40 am »
Sounds to me like she wants to play games.And wants to put you threw all of her little tests.I say run Forest run.Life is to short to put up with this kind of shit in a relationship.Tell the girl we either do this or we don't.No games no bullshit.There are plenty of available Chinese woman out there looking for a solid relationship.

If she is playing games with your emotions now.What is she going to be like in say 6 months or a year?You had better put a stop to the game playing now.Or it is going to get worse

Offline matt4534

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Re: My Trip to Chengdu
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2011, 12:47:40 pm »
I am not expert here.  But, I have to agree 100% with Maxx.  You sound like a good guy.  She sounds like a pain in the ass.  And that is not going to change, just keep getting worse.  Remember, " It is a futile endeavor, like mud-wrestling with a pig — it is a waste of time because you cannot win and the pig enjoys it".

Offline Neil

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Re: My Trip to Chengdu
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2011, 04:08:02 pm »
My wife never once tested me.  She has always had the strength and courage to ask me or tell me of her concerns and fears and worries and doubts.  In the beginning she told me she was worried I would hurt her if I became angry.  Through respect, love and affection, I have always reassured her that I could never hurt her.  She trusts me completely and cares for me deeply. 

I can understand a woman's desire to test her man, but it is a very immature way to go about things, and frankly doesn't show a lot of respect.  A relationship without complete respect for each other is a frightening scenario; I don't want to experience that again.

On the other hand Seagull, I chat with my wife every chance I get: when I wake up, before I go to work and when I return from work and before I go to sleep.  I can't imagine more than a day without talking to her and neither can she.  My first Chinese girlfriend would disappear for days at a time.  At first I would take it in stride, but as the days passed, my mind would begin to wonder.  After a few days of wondering, I would begin to worry.  Just as my worry would start to become panic, she would contact me again, equally panicked and completely loving, apologetic.  When I had finally had enough of the games, I explained to her that if she really cared about me, she would want to talk to me every day.  She would always be concerned for my safety.  She would always ask about my health and suggest that I go to bed earlier or eat breakfast (as my wife does now). 

Communication is key, especially in a long distance relationship.  We have no choice but to trust each other, because there is nothing we can do until we are together again. 

It is important to be able to ask the tough questions, of her and of yourself.  You traveled half way across the world to meet a woman.  I understand how you can not be sure if you both want to be friends or more, but that was kinda the reason for going there, right?  Who's fault is it that you returned none the wiser?  In Chinese culture, doesn't the woman generally assume the man will take charge, or at least make his intentions known? 

I have a feeling you may already know the answer, sometimes it is difficult to accept.  I know this was the last thing I wanted to hear when my first relationship ended, but when you finally meet the right one, you'll know.  There will be no doubt. 
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Offline sunny

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Re: My Trip to Chengdu
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2011, 08:35:53 pm »
I have a feeling you may already know the answer, sometimes it is difficult to accept.  I know this was the last thing I wanted to hear when my first relationship ended, but when you finally meet the right one, you'll know.  There will be no doubt.

I do agree with Neil.

Offline seagull

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Re: My Trip to Chengdu
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2011, 09:23:03 pm »
Hi everyone,

Thanks again for your replies. When I read some of these responses, I initially thought it was too early to be making that call. But now I am starting to think along those lines. Neil, good line that Sunny quoted!

When I was in Chengdu, Cherry was an absolutely wonderful person. Very kind and caring and did so many things for me. I saw every tourist site I wanted to see, no matter how difficult it was for her (e.g. Leshan Giant Buddha which was two hours away). It was my birthday while I was there and she organised a surprise party for me at a KTV bar with her family. She took me to bars, nightclubs, her old school, etc so I got to see everything about life in Chengdu. She picked me up from the airport, booked my hotel and dropped me off when I left despite me having to be at the airport at 6:30 am and she being someone who usually sleeps in late. I will not forget the kindness and hospitality I received from her because I don't think anyone has ever done so much for me like that before! She really looked after me. I thought everything was going fine until the surprise of yesterday.

When she was upset at me, at first I took this as a bad handed complement. Because I originally thought she wanted only friendship, this showed at least she cared about me beyond indifference.

But now I think about it more, maybe I am dating someone who has the famous Chinese "Little Emperor Syndrome". Someone who gets upset and angry when she does not get her own way as she is an only child. I guess most members here are older and do not have to worry about this as most of their ladies would have been born before the One Child Policy was introduced. Now I am questioning whether I should be pursuing this type of long distance relationship with any lady from Mainland China at all.

Next week I return to my Chinese Mandarin language classes which are part time and I have to juggle this on top of working full time. I will not have much free time. Cherry already knows this and I will not to be able to contact her on the frequent basis that she demands. But if she is going to have another spat, I may then have to end things. I will be phoning her tonight, as I had originally planned to do before this argument occurred, and we will talk further. I guess I am concerned that if I have to end things after everything she has done for me, and I do not want to seem like I do not appreciate everything she has did while I was in Chengdu. As I know what it is like to do a lot for another person and not feel appreciated for it. Anyway thanks for reading, I guess all I can do is wait and see how things continue to unfold.

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Re: My Trip to Chengdu
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2011, 10:09:41 pm »
Whilst there has been a lot said within the replies to Seagulls post , I am afraid that I have to agree with David E answers , as your young lady's English is well advanced simple text messages maybe all she needs instead of feeling like she was used as a travel guide , whist we in the Western countries may not think of it as much , her time spent with you would have cost her a lot , as there is always someone to take ones job whether for a day or week in China and she was obviously happy in your company otherwise you would have been given a rapid exit .
 Does not matter how smart we males think we are , 9 out of 10 Chinese ladies are as if not more street smart than we will ever be , need anything done or bought in China and they can source it in minutes , regards Sujuan and Robert .
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