Author Topic: My thoughts are with Connecticut  (Read 7428 times)

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Offline Willy The Londoner

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My thoughts are with Connecticut
« on: December 14, 2012, 08:37:49 pm »
Another terrible event to wake up to.  Like many others my thoughts are with those who have lost so many children, those who have lost brothers, sister, nephews, nieces and grandchildren and of course wife's and partners.

While I give my prayers to all I will comment no more at this stage on my thoughts of gun ownership in the USA.

Willy



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Offline Robertt S

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Offline shaun

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Re: My thoughts are with Connecticut
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2012, 10:32:53 pm »
I am sure that many of us are thinking about what happened in Connecticut today.  Such a tragedy.

Willy I agree with you in that this really isn't the time to talk about guns in America.  What I would like to do is turn the attention to another issue not talked about in public.  That is the issue of mental illness and it's contribution to these tragedies.  I haven't seen any reports on this yet but I will bet that this young man was on antidepressants.  There is a direct link with other tragedies like this and the use of antidepressants.  They are also linked to suicide and murder.

The political and law enforcement worlds do not want to discuss or link this to these kinds of things.  I think it is time that they look at it from all angles and get resolution in this matter.

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Re: My thoughts are with Connecticut
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2012, 11:18:59 pm »
What a mess. I know this small town. I have been there many times (before I moved south). Sandy Hook and Newtown are two separate towns (been to both) next to each other so I have no idea why they say Newtown when it's Sandy Hook? It's a beautiful area. Not much of a town. If you drive through it would take about a minute or less.

But I also heard of an attack on children by a knife toting man on China. Doesn't matter about gun control if it's going to happen they use what they can.

Offline Willy The Londoner

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Re: My thoughts are with Connecticut
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2012, 04:43:39 am »

But I also heard of an attack on children by a knife toting man on China. Doesn't matter about gun control if it's going to happen they use what they can.
This rubbish about knife toting men is nothing like a deranged person with 2 automatic pistols.  How many bullets can be fired in the number of times it takes some one to be killed by a knife.   Guns that once again were lawfully held by a family member.

Knife crimes rarely ever take place in a premeditated way as these gun attacks are planned.  When people are in a rage they will use any weapon to hand. 

Willy

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Re: My thoughts are with Connecticut
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2012, 08:21:27 am »
This whole thing (in Conn. shootings) is unsettling. Why a woman that worked as a teacher had several guns with a mentally ill young man in the home? I just don't know or understand that.

They have not actually said what guns they were. You will hear "automatic pistols" or "Military type guns" which they are not. An automatic gun is against the law, they are Semi-automatic, which means the trigger has to be pulled for each round (shot). Not that you required an answer but How many bullets can be fired? depends on the gun, from 8 to 15 average.

Guns aren't the problem, deranged people are. As you said Willy, when people are in a rage they will use any weapon on hand. 


Offline Robertt S

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Re: My thoughts are with Connecticut
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2012, 01:41:23 pm »
The common denominator of many of these terrible shootings is mental illness like Shaun said. I personally think there is many people walking the streets that need to be locked up for everyone's safety. This will never happen because the liberals will foam at the mouth and the AFLC will fight it tooth and nail, claiming the civil rights of the mentally ill are being violated. I think that the schools and the socialist society should quit handing out participation trophies and brainwashing children that everybody is a winner, maybe then the children would be able to mature mentally at an early age and perhaps without medication and violence be able to cope when reality slaps them in the face. Anyone who has been deemed mentally unstable or potentially unstable should be handled in whatever manner would render them neutral threats to themselves and the general public, I think they should not have the right to sign their self out of hospitals and mental wards after 72 hours and against doctors orders. The only people that actually sweat the against doctors orders are the people who responsible for the hospital bills, since leaving ADO's enables the insurance company to refuse payment. We need to regulate nut cases since they will use ANYTHING  to kill people. I wish I did live in a world that nothing bad ever happens, but that world is not here so until world peace becomes reality, hate and crime disappear completely I will hold on to my means of self/family defense. Like I have said before and will say again " I would rather be judged by 12,than carried by 6 " So until you can absolutely guarantee my family's and my safety I will hang onto my guns. The only people that actually follow gun laws anyhow are law-abiding citizens so disarming them only means more opportunity for easy victims for criminals ( Note, criminals generally as a rule blow off laws ie: possession, use and sales.) The last time a Ruling party attempted to force laws and other directives onto Americans was instrumental in our country becoming independent of unfair laws and rulers. It does seem many people do agree with controlling guns though ie; I bet Assad is a very firm believer in citizens access to guns, and generally any dictator that has practiced or used genocide to further their cause, policy, and or religion. We live in a violent times and it is getting worse, the one fact that many avoid mentioning is that a lot of these tragedies occur in states with so-called strict gun laws. That tells me that the law is not the major problem, but not enforcing current laws on the books already is. It is against the law for convicted felons to possess or own firearms in Georgia, but I hear everyday where another crack dealer is busted with crack and a gun. he has nothing to worry about now , his street cred just went up 10 points and he gets to catch up his soaps,weightlifting, and hone his basketball skills further. Until they start adding meaningful penalties to existing laws I do not want to hear about new laws.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2012, 01:55:11 pm by robertt S »

Offline Jason B

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Re: My thoughts are with Connecticut
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2012, 04:06:16 pm »
Well here is a thought.......why is it every time that one of these terrible incidents happen it is always in a school, post office or somewhere where innocent children and families are and never in a prison or gaol?  Simple answer they have gun controls in place in those places.  I heard on the TV today that the gun lobby is very powerful in the US, maybe it is time for people need to re-evaluate their thinking and priorities.  Rob raises a very valid point we need to start reteaching kids that not everyone will come first in things and that does not make you a failure but as a motivator to try harder next time.
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Offline David E

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Re: My thoughts are with Connecticut
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2012, 04:45:50 pm »
Whatever arguements and statistics are placed before the "anti-gun" nuts I doubt that you will ever shake their view that a ban on privately owned firearms would automatically eliminate gun related incidents.

These are the same people who fought and won the legal bans on:

Alcohol (Prohibition)
Marijuana
Hard drugs
Wife beating
Driving under the influence
Speeding
Parking in a no-park zone
Urinating in a Public Place

etc, etc , etc, etc, etc.........

......and ten thousand more meaningless laws that do zip towards addressing the real problem....merely serve to assist somebody's re-election, or provide Public Servants with meaningless work enforcing unenforceable Laws !!!!

I cannot think of a single issue where the actual enactment of a law has resulted in an elimination of the "crime"

But as usual, all the restrictions are vigorously fought for by the vovcal minority...the rest of us just sigh and bear it.....

When all these Laws fail to do anything real....do we hear the vocal minority having the balls to stand up and say "we were wrong"....no we dont, they just blame some other factor and lobby hard for more Laws.....


And for Willy...I put to you the question....what is the greater crime, to be shot by a bullet or to be stabbed with a knife or to be condemmed to die from long term drug abuse (provided illegally by "pushers" who dont give a flying f##### for any type of law), or to be a wife beaten to death with a golf club by a crazy husband.......and how does quantity ever get close to figuring in such a ghastly statistic ?

Offline Willy The Londoner

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Re: My thoughts are with Connecticut
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2012, 09:21:26 pm »



And for Willy...I put to you the question....what is the greater crime, to be shot by a bullet or to be stabbed with a knife or to be condemned to die from long term drug abuse (provided illegally by "pushers" who dont give a flying f##### for any type of law), or to be a wife beaten to death with a golf club by a crazy husband.......and how does quantity ever get close to figuring in such a ghastly statistic ?
For once I actually agree with most things said.  There are many way of killing people, and unfortunately I have seen the results of most in my time.  Those were the days when the only counselling you received was being told 'Go get a cup of tea'  Deaths of children, in particular, always bring back the flashes of what confronted me in my days in the police service.  But people, deranged or not, only plan such events as occurred yesterday when they have access to such fire power. 
To protect your self why do you need the weapons that are available today.  Is it the 'mine is bigger than yours' complex.

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Re: My thoughts are with Connecticut
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2012, 11:41:11 pm »
It's not the wild west here in the US. If I went outside with or fired my gun for no reason I would be arrested. Having a concealed license means that, concealed. Not that your walking into a store with a holster strapped to your side. It cannot be seen.

Why the movies, post office, etc. is because most are making a statement of some kind are looking to die and want to be notorious most likely.

Hearing the latest as they dig deeper into the shooter and his family. I think the mother wasn't all good in the head either. She bought these guns because she did not like how the world was going and was getting ready for "doomsday". She would take her off balanced son to gun ranges and teach him how to shoot. She wasn't a teacher or aid and had nothing to do with the school. She got a nice settlement from the divorce and stopped working.

I do think some guns should not be available to anybody. Sorry, but I do believe this. There is no need for a average person to have a high powered gun. They don't know how to use it correctly anyway.

Offline maxx

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Re: My thoughts are with Connecticut
« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2012, 05:37:09 pm »
I can't remember the name of the town in Arizona.They passed a law a couple of years ago.That made it illegal not to own a gun.The only exceptions to the law.Were people who were deemed unfit to own a firearm.Which meant convicted felons.People who had mental conditions.

It took about 6 months for the law to take effect.after the law was enacted.violant crimes dropped to Zero.There was no bank robbery's domestic disputes.Where a gun was used.No muggings,no car jacking.The reason this law works so well.Is because you have to be nuts to go at someone.Who you know has a gun stuffed in there purse or there pocket.

Look at it this way you are mad at the local cinema for raising the price of there popcorn.So you decide to go down and shoot up the local cinema.As soon as you sneak threw the back door.and jack a round into the chamber of your gun.20 people open up on you before you know what hit you.It is a huge deterrent when you know the playing field has ben leveled.And there is going to be very few victims.

I'm not a  gun nut.I wish they would throw the damn things in the ocean and be done with them.But I'm also a realist.That knows no matter how many guns you throw in the ocean.Somebody somewhere is going to have a few.And have no problem using it on another human being

.That being said if New Mexico passed a law that said that you had to have a firearm.I would be one of the first to drive down to the gun store and buy a shiny new 45.And 2 new gun rigs.One shoulder holster.And one for my belt.And I would carry it everyday.With the knowledge that I will probably never have to use it.Because the guy who thinks I'm going to be his next victim.Knows that I have a gun.And I probably went to the state mandated safety course where they.Taught everyone in the class to use and store the weapon properly.

This kid that shot all those kids in that school.Had some mental problems.If the school had of followed it's own safety procedures we would not be having this discussion..If the security guards would of ben armed with something more lethal then pepper spray.We would not be having this discussion.

This kid is a poser looking for power and glory even in his own death.Never realizing that there is a tommarrow.And people will forget his name in a couple of months.The sad part is before this loser offed himself.He took 26 innocent lives.

Offline Willy The Londoner

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Re: My thoughts are with Connecticut
« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2012, 08:07:05 pm »
A good argument Maxx.  But how many of those others in the Cinema would have been killed by 'friendly fire'. Even the police in another shoot out managed to kill a load of people who were just walking in the area.    So someone out the the street and shoots at someone, so another pulls a gun to shoot back, another see the person shooting back so he draws his gun and shoots at him, and so on and so on. You are likely to end up with a lots and lots of people shooting each other.

Sorry but Americans have made America what it is today which means that unfortunately you are going to continue to have these mass shootings and loss of innocent lives.

Willy
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Offline shaun

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Re: My thoughts are with Connecticut
« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2012, 09:37:03 pm »
Willy Americans didn't create this mess, the American government did in their efforts have equal opportunity for everyone and to make a safe environment for everyone.

What we are seeing is an over reaction to mental patients being abused by mental hospitals.  This went on for years and rather than straightening up mental institutions the government gave the patients the right to refuse treatment and hospitalization.

The reality of what happened in Connecticut is that the police and the school system knew this man had the ability to do this.  He had threatened to do it twice before.  The school put in a better security system and the police were suppose to be watching him.  In reality he should have been institutionalized.  He was labeled as a monster by one psychologist an no one did anything.  So now who would you say is responsible for this travesty?

Also Willy you ought to give people more credit than you do. You said,

Quote
So someone out the the street and shoots at someone, so another pulls a gun to shoot back, another see the person shooting back so he draws his gun and shoots at him, and so on and so on. You are likely to end up with a lots and lots of people shooting each other.

Most people are smarter than that.  I think most would hide first and evaluate before shooting.  Yes you might as knuckle head every now and then but consider the Connecticut situation.  If the principal had a gun she would more than likely be alive today and there would have been fewer dead maybe even none other than the mentally disturbed gunman.  Better yet he would have been in an institution but the American government and bleeding heart people didn't deal with the issues in the mental institutions and instead closed them down and turning out the mentally disturbed into the general population.

This is just another fine example as to how our government is failing the American people and trying to put a band aid on the wrong wound.

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Re: My thoughts are with Connecticut
« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2012, 10:59:00 pm »
Huh?

"If the school had of followed it's own safety procedures ..If the security guards would of been armed with something more lethal then pepper spray."

The school did follow all of their safety procedures, he broke in because he wasn't let in and there wasn't any security guards it's an elementary school. But I understand what your getting at.

"knew this man had the ability to do this.  He had threatened to do it twice before." 

No idea where you heard this? It didn't happen. And "was labeled as a monster by one psychologist" After not before. Everyone just thought of him as maybe a little strange but there is no record or report of him doing anything wrong, anywhere.

Some of it is Media hype, making things up to make the news as if they have the inside story.

Another part of the news is where they are interviewing some that packed their backpacks and ready to survive the end of the world on the 21st? Where do they think they will be waiting it out?