Author Topic: Religion Thread  (Read 84752 times)

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Offline Rhonald

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RE: Religion Thread
« Reply #45 on: June 17, 2009, 12:44:15 am »
Quote from: 'shaun' pid='5818' dateline='1245205619'

Hi guys, Lets stir the pot a little.

  What is significant about Glen Rose is fossil records and human foot prints inside of dinosaur footprints.  The significance is the fossils show that dinosaurs and man existed at the same time and have been dated to thousands of years ago not millions.  This information can be found at http://www.creationism.org/cem/.

To deny that the bible is the written word as God had intended in the final analysis is to deny the authority and existence of God.   Now do I believe people can verbally distort the bible? Yes.  You see it all the time.  But the bible or the written word is quite different.
Shaun


I studied anthropology in school and the human footprints dating with dinosaurs is something I never heard of. Sorry but dinosaurs lived millions of years ago. I believe the science. I am agnostic in my views so I am still open to possibilities. But to say that you have to believe in the bible inorder to believe in God I find hard to swallow. After all the Jews believe in the old testament ( not the new), The Muslims believe the new testament was inspired by Jesus ( but as a prophet not the son of God) and these two other religions believe in the same God. They just interpret his authority differently then Christians do.

My uncle is a believer and he says that maybe God used evolution as a means for creation, so he has no problem combining the two. The problem I find is when people think that the bible is the all to end all arguments. The Bible is not God, it might be an instrument of God, and it is in its use that it fullfills a purpose.

Since the bible has gone through different translations from different languages, I find it hard for others to not comprehend how distortions can creep in. Heck just look at this form where we are writing using translators for communicating to women overseas, and sometimes mistakes are made. I hear the Greek word for 'day' that was used in the six days to create the world is also a word that can mean a length of time. I hear that the bible was written in ancient Greek, modern Greek, Aramaic, and Hebrew. And to have accurate translations?

As to evolution and fossil records. Why not look microscopic. Have ther not been new strains of viruses and dieases and bacterias? The problem with complex organisims is it takes a long time to see evoultion happening. But on the microscopic level, every year the flu comes back different and the vaccine of last year might not work this year. Why? because the viruses has mutated. We have intermingled plant genes to create new forms of wheat and plants. Now this is just a minor change but I do not have to stretch my mind to see how nature, over time, or even by God's hand, has caused the emergance of new species. So please, just because I question parts of the Bible, doesn't mean I refute all of it.

[I remember my great Grandfather saying that he trusted the buffalo soldier more the the pinda licoyea ( white man ).
[/quote]

I can't say north of the Border we were better (what with the wiskey traders and small pocks) But I like hearing the story of when a troop of US cavarly were sent to the border to collect a small tribe of American Indians returning to their reservation. They were meet at the border by two RCMP officers escorting about 60 Sioux. When asked where the rest of the soldiers were, the RCMP officer said," Oh he is over the hill cooking breakfast."

I liked the idea of the Great Spirit, because as I explained before, I am agnostic. I would say that I was an Atheist before( can't make any money with no prophet), but because of my journey of self discovery, including finding my new wife from Chnlove, I am open to the possibility of some life force that helps guide us with this Gift called Life.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2009, 01:12:18 am by Rhonald »
Life....It's all about finding the Chicks and Balances

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RE: Religion Thread
« Reply #46 on: June 17, 2009, 08:59:37 am »
Believe it or not I agree with all of these quotes. First let me start off with the Jewish religion and Muslim. Muslim is a spin off of the Jewish religion. Basically it is the same. Just like I posted in an earlier post, Why is there hate for each other? (Jews and Muslim) My god is better then yours? It's the same GOD? The Muslims attack the Jews and the Jews defend themselves so I almost always side with the Jews on this.

The Jewish religion is the belief of ONE GOD. At that time people believed in multiple god's. So they started the concept of only one. To "Sell" this idea they wrote to prove this. They wrote of old stories they have learned and known of. They also wrote of the same so these stories will be carried onto other generations that followed.

Shaun had asked what I knew of the Dead Sea Scrolls? I know much of it. I know why they were there, How they got there, what is written, and how they survived all these years. It's an interesting story and way to much for me to write here but for anyone it's worth reading about.

Let me make this simple of where I'm coming from. I have problems with religions. when a leader puts spins on the bible and forces his opinion on the worshippers. Someone like this Dr. J. Kennedy. I don't recall what branch of Christianity this church was/is but it was just a few miles from here so I could check. But he always had stories that couldn't be checked for truth. Something like, years ago I talked with a scientist that admitted evolution was something he made up? Leaving out when, where, who. To me this was being deceiving more then truth. He was a very smart man, I'll give him that.

But back to where I'm coming from. I think the bible has if faults. I think some of the stories are embellished, old and new testament. But still when something goes right I look up and say Thank You. Sometimes I'll even have a talk with them and at times pray for someone's soul. Whether they hear me or not? I don't know but it makes me feel better. Like I told that girl at school who said we were all going to hell except her? I said "Someday we will see, If and when I stand before them they can judge my life" So I'll continue living my life the way I believe Jesus had told us to. That's the true Christian way. Help others, Love others, don't cheat, steal, and try to understand.

Offline Willy The Londoner

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RE: Religion Thread
« Reply #47 on: June 17, 2009, 10:11:39 am »
Hi Mike,

You did a Bible quote in Chinese - do you have access to a Chinese Bible?  I know that there was a problem a few years ago with Bibles having to be smuggled into China - but I also know that most of the Bibles we now use in the Western World are printed in China!   My lady has told me many times that she wants to become a better Christian - she knows that I go to Church every Sunday and I preach occasionally and that my online business concerns Christian/Gospel backing tracks for singers.

She does not have a bible in Chinese and maybe that would be a great gift to take to her.   Any ideas on that.
Willy The Lpndoner

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shaun

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RE: Religion Thread
« Reply #48 on: June 17, 2009, 08:35:40 pm »
Willy, I have one somewhere.  I have been looking for it so that I could send it to the woman of my interest.    Several years ago while pastoring a church in a small town two Chinese men began attending.  They could not speak English except a few words.  We were able to find a Chinese bible with the Gideon society.  Does this society exist in England?  If so you can begin your search there.  We had to wait a while but it was worth the wait as they were written in Mandarin and English.

Rhonald, I am a retired geophysist and was quite facinated  with the Glen Rose, Texas find.  It is real and you can check the references.  Secondly the bible is written in Hebrew and Greek.  The English texts are interpretreted from the original languages.  You are right in translation there can be issues in translating from one language to another. With the access we have to materials we have today it is possible to check each and every word and how it was translated.

I know it is easy to sit here behind my computer and claim anything I choose.  Also I know I am new and all of you do not know me but all of what I have written can be verified.  You can cross-reference everything in the Bible at www.crosswalk.com.  If you are unsure because it is the internet the books are available.  I find most of what I need in garage sales.

Vince,  D. James Kennedy was presbyterian.  I say was because he passed away in 2007.

So that you know, I take issue with many in the Christian world especially when it come to abuse and the distortion of the word of God.  On that we agree.  Someone coined this phrase years ago but is is so true, God does not need our help in His kingdom, He wants it, but He doesn't need it.

I have enjoyed the discussions we have had on this thread.  If I seem to to not be here as much over the next couple of weeks, my workload has increased a lot and I must focus on it more for now.  So keep the debate up and I will look in from time to time and may make little comments here or there.

Blessings to all,

Shaun

Offline MLM

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RE: Religion Thread
« Reply #49 on: June 17, 2009, 08:57:58 pm »
Hello all, I think this needs saying so it mays as well be me thats saying it, I am proud of all the brotherhood, we are all talking about the way we see religion and there is not one outraged person here, we are talking about one of the most fought over threads in the world, I've seen what was some of the most educated people in the world talking about religion and within an hour they were yelling and screaming at one another like a bunch of children, again I am proud to call you all my brothers.
TIME IS THE TELLER OF ALL TRUTHS AND THE HEALER OF ALL HURTS

Offline Joshua Smith

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RE: Religion Thread
« Reply #50 on: June 17, 2009, 11:17:35 pm »
My religious views:


N/A



lol
"I'm somewhere where I don't know where I am."   ~ Homer Simpson ~
"Everything is something."   ~ Marge Simpson ~

shaun

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RE: Religion Thread
« Reply #51 on: June 23, 2009, 09:51:22 pm »
Vince,

I was re-0reading some of the posts on this tread.  You mentioned knowing about the Dead Sea Scrolls.  Same here.  I have spent extensive time in the Dead Sea Scroll Museum in Jerusalem on two different occasions.  I have actually been to some of the caves where they were found.  It is quite an amazing story.  Do you think they will ever put Psalm 151 in the Bible?  My answer is no.

Shaun

Vince G

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RE: Religion Thread
« Reply #52 on: June 23, 2009, 11:33:29 pm »
Well Psalm 151, is in the Hebrew Orthodox translations so I doubt it will be added at least not in our lifetime.

Offline Irishman

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RE: Religion Thread
« Reply #53 on: June 25, 2009, 07:26:24 am »
This is a very interesting topic for me.
I was born Christian and raised as a Roman Catholic but since my teenage years have not attended mass apart from weddings and funerals out of principle.
 Personally have a hard time believing any faith but do believe there's a certain balance to nature and life - I honestly believe for good people everything happens for a reason and most times a bad thing happens there is a good flip side just down the road, but i digress a little.

My biggest hurdle to overcome in Christian belief is the idea of heaven or hell. The idea in the "Matrix" movies that making life appear too good was not believable or desired by humans resonated strongly with me. It seems that heaven would be a pretty dull place after a while. Similarly, no matter how bad hell is surely you would become desensitized after a few eons or so.
How to reconcile this?,it seems to me that human life right now is closer to heaven than any idealised version, maybe this is heaven and we relive it over and over and get to experience all the good and bad lifestyles, pausing once in a while in the afterlife to consider the sum total of our experiences before trying a new one?(getting born again and living a new life).

Another concept that seems crazy to me is time and matter, where did all this stuff come from, and when did it start, the idea that it came from nothing seems daft to me but yet i cannot deny its existence.

So while at a certain level religion seems preposterous to me, then so does everyday life which is pretty hard to rule out the existence of!
Sorry for the rambling post, just reading some of the posts above set me to thinking about it all.
Become the change you want today, or all your tomorrows will be like yesterday.

Scottish_Rob

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RE: Religion Thread
« Reply #54 on: June 25, 2009, 07:45:20 am »
As you guy's probably know, i don't bother much about religion, however, this has changed somewhat in the last few weeks, but won't mention why, just suffice enough to say that it has.

There is one thing that (sort of) bothers me, why are most wars and cruelty are committed in his name....

Yet in every country. in every society people still believe in one god, no matter if it's God almighty or Budda or whoever.  Do you guy's think that God or whatever the idol is just 'a force from above?' or is it a 'religion' to keep the masses in some sort of control.

Please don't get me wrong I'm not down-crying anyone for their beliefs, everyone 'needs' something to believe in.

Vince G

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RE: Religion Thread
« Reply #55 on: June 25, 2009, 08:37:24 am »
Irish you sound just like I did when I started off. A thousand questions? Who really said what? Why is it this way? At one time I even thought of being a Priest? But I knew I like "women" to much. There is something I kind of settled on and it was also brought before me. ?? What? lol  I'll explain. The American Indian (native Amer, whatever) has had a unique way of believing mother nature is the power of the earth. One day I got to sit down and talk with many "Indians" and learn from them what they believed. At the time they were running a sweat-lodge and a sit in was $500.00 for the whitie yuppies looking for trills. Befriending them I could sit in for free, anytime, as many times, but I didn't.

The difference is the people of the bible go on what was written by man. Where the Indian go by what they "Feel" is around them. It was the "christian way" that almost put an end to the indian way of life. Become a christian and we'll let you live?

So Irish and Rob, "is it a 'religion' to keep the masses in some sort of control."  I suggest you lookup and read about the last of the Roman Emperors, Constantine and what he did.

Offline Willy The Londoner

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RE: Religion Thread
« Reply #56 on: June 25, 2009, 06:32:42 pm »
Quote from: 'mpo4747' pid='5895' dateline='1245286840'

Willy,

I purchased a hard cover bible, that is dual language, one column is Chinese, and the other column is in English on each page.
I will bring it with me on my trip to share with my lady.



I got it here:
http://www.amazon.com/Chinese-English-Simplified-Version-Pilgrims/dp/9625131892/ref=pd_sim_b_1

looks like you can get it in the UK here:
http://www.eden.co.uk/shop/chinese-english-simplified-script-hb-1141545.html

and for Chinese language:
http://www.eden.co.uk/shop/chinese-union-bi-new-punct-1190197.html

I also have a electronic bible, in English and Chinese, as a program for my home computer that I downloaded for free from here:



Thanks for the info Mike.  I will be leaving for China on Sunday and will be back in August for a week then returning to China so I will order a copy for my return.  What I have been able to get hold of is about 200 Christian/Gospel/Worship songs that are sung in Chinese.  I am taking these with me on Sunday.  

Willy the Londoner
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Vince G

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RE: Religion Thread
« Reply #57 on: June 26, 2009, 12:31:58 am »
New evolution theory
[attachment=227]
« Last Edit: June 26, 2009, 12:34:27 am by Vince G »

Offline MLM

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RE: Religion Thread
« Reply #58 on: June 26, 2009, 12:53:16 am »
Thats funny Vince, Zhou was shopping today and when she came home she said that men act like dogs and some American young men act more like pigs then she made the " oink oink" soundso I knew what she was saying, I  bout fell of the chair laughing
TIME IS THE TELLER OF ALL TRUTHS AND THE HEALER OF ALL HURTS

Arnold

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RE: Religion Thread
« Reply #59 on: June 26, 2009, 01:18:46 am »
That's " Priceless " !!!