meaning of visit

[Lee357]

Patients I keep telling myself that. My lady keeps talking about marriage and associating it with my upcoming visit. I keep telling her that I am just coming to visit her and get her fathers aproval of me, this vist. To elaborate I can speak fairly good Mandarin and so I have had phone conversations with both her mother and her father. I even spent 2 hours speaking to her uncle once. I know that this has shown her that I am serious and that I want to marry her but I am not ready to commit to it before I meet her in person. I have even web camed with her and her mother and father at the same time for about 3 hours last night and tried to explain the above position. She just called me and once again she is talking of us getting married when I visit. I know she wants to get married, and I know she is scared that I will come visit her and then go home and change my mind. So enough of background on my situation, now on to why I post. I would like your opinions on if I have created my own problems with her expectations? Can you suggest a different approch to take in getting her to understand I am not coming in July to marry her? Ok I just reread this and to answer you question yes I have told her and her parents that I am not ready to commit to marriage befor I meet her in person. I just don't want her to be disapointed when I come and don't marry her on the second day I am there. I will be taking my paper work so If we do hit it off I am ready to but I am still not going with that as a plan

[Vince G]

Maybe the words used? I found the word "Suitable" for marriage works. My lady and I when we started talking of the M word, she said in one letter that seemed to me meant she wasn't sure we would marry? My heart dropped when I read it at first. But later found what she meant. We are in agreement now.

Let me explain. She and I are committed to each other but we're holding an escape route open incase. We have the agreement of talk of marriage and other future thoughts but when we actually meet is when we make our (each of us) decision to marry. Her words were when we meet we will see how "Suitable" we are. Both being careful not just to marry for the sake of. I was surprised and happy at the same time for this was a load off my mind. I knew the face to face meet will tell all but when she had the same thought? It showed we were on the same path. Actually it brought us closer for it took allot of tension off.

The outcome is, when we do meet then we will choose to marry then or another time? or not at all. So now it is a joke between us. Maybe we will marry after we surface a few days later?

[ttwjr32]

hope it all works out for you Lee

[Lee357]

My first trip to China was last summer, and I had no intention to marry, and I did not have the paperwork for it either ....  which was good because the first thing the agency owner told me after I met her and my lady at the airport is that she was NOT ready, or prepared to get married during my visit. I knew that we needed to spend time to see if we were really good for each other.

By the end of my trip, I knew this was the one for me, and I know she made a decision as well. So my next trip will be for getting married.

you might need a few days, or a whole new trip to figure this out, but your lady needs to understand this and respect your position, and to allow you to make your decision.... I do not think this is something people should rush into until they are ready.

Mike O.

Mike do you think I should even be taking the paper work? Is that going to cause more trouble than it is worth for me? I never intended on telling her I had the documentation on me or that I was planning on having the documentation. I am sorry if I am asking dumb questions but this is my first visit to see a Lady and I want it to go as smoothly as possible for me mostly but for her as well. Call it self preservation.

I thank all of you for your advice.

I am truly hoping she is the same or at least very similar in person Scott, I know in person she will be different than in letters, EMF, phone, but I hope not too much different. I also hope she can deal with me snoring loudly at night. I have told her but you know in her ear it might make a difference. :icon_biggrin:

[Neil]

If it were me, I would take the paperwork, but not tell her.  It could very well turn out that this is the lady you want to marry, and only you will know if it is.  But, if you have the patience, wait.  Be aware though, that she will likely want to go through your bags looking for clothes to clean or put away.  She might not take too kindly to you keeping secrets from her.  

If I had been ready with my paperwork, I would have gotten married on my second trip (Christmas).

[rockycoon]

Lee,  Probably the best way if your not sure is to leave the paperwork at home or the hotel safe in China.  Don't let her know you have it, or just tell the truth and tell her it's at home.
By the way, love the picture, and the white horse.  Mines black.  Is that your buddy? Whats his name?

[Martin]

I am with Neil on this.  Take it with you because you just never know.

[Lee357]

If it were me, I would take the paperwork, but not tell her.  It could very well turn out that this is the lady you want to marry, and only you will know if it is.  But, if you have the patience, wait.  Be aware though, that she will likely want to go through your bags looking for clothes to clean or put away.  She might not take too kindly to you keeping secrets from her.  

If I had been ready with my paperwork, I would have gotten married on my second trip (Christmas).

Very good advise about her most likely wanting to go through my bags. I would have never thought about that. Thank you for that gem. She speaks very little English but I truly have no Idea how much she can read. My big problem here is I don't want to be the one that screws this up by doing something stupid. I should say more stupid than I am usually. Ahhh!!! all this for a Lady I haven't even met yet.:s
I thank all of you for your help I have decided to take the papers just like I planed and see what happens. If she happens to see them I will just come clean and tell her why they are there. I am going to stay in China for the full 90 days my Visa is good for if she is the one so I really need to be prepared. Yes I do believe I have made my mind up on this issue. thanks to all that replied to this thread. Any other advise is still apreciated. I am so nervous at this point I am not sure that by the time I leave for china I will remember my own name.

The horses name is Shalala and she is a pure blooded Egyption Arabian. She is my best and by the sounds of your other posts she is a lot like your horse, only works when she wants to. Good thing I have 4 wheelers to gather the cows off the winter range or I might as well be walking some days if I had to rely on her.

[Willy The Londoner]

I took the completed papers twice on two visits - but never used either sets.  Obviously the ladies in question were not looking for a suave and debonaire character!!:icon_cool: Or perhaps they were and that was why they rejected me!!!!  But my experience in collecting the papers together was good for the UK members of the brotherhood (Hmm! I wonder if they would club together and helpout with the costs involved - no I couldn't ask - but I know a man who can -HEY ROB you anywhere around!:icon_cheesygrin:)

Lee your right about meeting face to face before making any decisons.  I spent many weeks on phone calls every day before finally coming here and realising that the person I had been talking to was not the same one I imagined her to be.   But take the paperwork with you already - if you do click that shows willing and you will have six months to use the papers in if you are from the UK - not sure if from elsewhere.

Willy

[maxx]

Take the papers with you.You never know what could happen

[Johnboy]

Hi Lee,

A belated welcome to the Forum; this is where it is all at, as I'm sure you are discovering!

I would definitely take the paperwork with you but not tell her that you have it.  I don't regard this as dishonest, although perhaps a little disingenuous.  However, if you do tell her you have it and then decide you need more time to think about marriage, and do not marry her during this trip, you will put some serious doubts (and perhaps wrongful thoughts) in her mind about why you didn't marry her: "He brought the paperwork, he must have been thinking about marrying me, so why didn't he?"  Thoughts of this nature would also be very hurtful to her - and I sense from your posts, particularly with regard to Plan B (which I also empaphise with!) that you have a thoughtful and caring personality.

However, I am sure you know there are always those times in life when you look back and say: "If only I had........"  And by the time you make your next trip, those doubtful and wrongful thoughts may have accumulated her hurt, and she may be gone.  Others may say that if she loved you and was truly committed, she would wait.  But are you prepared to take that chance?  Life is largely about fate and opportunities; it's those we miss that we tend to dwell on the most.  It has also been my experience throughout life that you can rarely fully fathom what is in a woman's thoughts and heart, and in that respect you have to be ready to take your opportunities and shape your own fate.  Taking the paperwork with you allows you to do that, and removes doubt and hurt from the equation of thought.

I hope you have a really happy time with your lady in China - and I'm sure you will make the right decision!

Johnboy

[Lee357]

Johnboy,
Thank you for your well thought out reply. The "Lost Love" syndrom is why I got the papers ready when I decided this Lady was worth going to see. I wanted to be ready to marry her on the spot if I get there and she is indeed who she seems to be from thousands of miles away. I am going to take the paperwork with me. I just hope I can keep the secret, I am a terrible at lying. I am worried because she already seems to be able to tell when I am thinking about something I am not comfortable with. She also has been very efficient at getting what ever information she wants out of me without me even knowing I have given it to her.

[Chong]

I am with Neil on this.  Take it with you because you just never know.

I agree. Keep it tuck away in the hotel safe.

Lee ... you have to meet in person to see if there's any physical chemistry as well. Your approach is good.

A westerner that can speak Mandarin ... you're a catch right off the bat.

Sleep on your ‘side' to decrease snoring. Keep a pillow by your backside to prevent rolling over.

All the best on your trip.

[RegnisTheGreat]

Hey Lee,

Welcome to the hood. Myself and Chong are the resident asians here. And I agree with what you said, take the paper but do not tell her.

For me, the first visit is about getting to know the person and then later visits engagement and marriage. Rushing things is always a bad idea, hence my first marriage.

Singer

[Lee357]

Update,
I read an article post in one of these forums and used the information there to help me get her to understand why the first visit is just to meet each other. The article was for teachers in china and it said that in chinese dating the first meeting is usually in a group just so the two parties can accertain the fitness of the other person for marriage ( sound so very business like). The second "date" is based on the outcome of the first "date". It is used to show that interest in marriage has been descided. The third date is to confirm that marriage is thought to be coming soon. Next is meeting the parents and apperantly this is the same as in the western world a declaration of engagement. So during tonights (my time) phone call I explained to Lin Ya that I did not understand (cultural difference) what me already talking to her parents and meeting them on web cam ment to her (with above information). I then reiterated that I was coming to meet her first and if we were "two hearts beating as one" we would get married if not we would need more time to discuss if we are going to be that. She then understood exactly what my intentions were and was happy again about the progress of our relationship. She told me that to her our letters, phone conversations, web cams and the phone conversations with her parents and her uncle were those "dates" (or milestones if you like). A not so simple cultural misunderstanding. HAHA if there such a thing as a simple cultural misunderstanding when so much time and energy is put into building a relationship to last a "lifetime" from thousands of mile away. I am glad that she and I can communicate with the same language. I truly have respect for those brothers that are able to do this without a shared language and a different cultural set of norms.

A westerner that can speak Mandarin ... you're a catch right off the bat.

Thank you Chong for the advise.
I studied Mandarin in college for 2 years and have been a tourist in China about six times for a total of about a year and a half worth of time total. This is the only time I have tried or even thought of marriage though and I am finding it to be a totally different set of cultural issues that I have never before encountered. This is the first Lady I had contacted on CL and I went through just like most I think the time of "is she real" Is this or that written by the translator. I just totally ignored my fear and continued to write her daily. I think we went to almost 20 EMF's before the first web cam sesion. I do unerstand why she resisted. Loosing face in front of someone she wants to marry is a huge fear. I was patient and understanding though and I hope it will pay off. I am certainly not going to fall into the trap of believing all is roses and perfume when I go. I am a country boy and I know that a rose still smells like a rose even when it has cow sh*t on it.
I really want to thank all of you who have offered such advice to me. I can truly see why the old addage of we either stick together or we will surely hang seperatly is true in this situation.